BS: Has Americanism Spread THIS far?

Subject: RE: BS: Has Americanism Spread THIS far?
From: number 6
Date: 25 Jun 11 - 12:21 AM

""Out here, due process is a bullet."

.... John Wayne the actor, playing Col. Mike Kirby in the Green Berets

YIKES !!!

biLL   ... :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Has Americanism Spread THIS far?
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 24 Jun 11 - 11:57 PM

I was more referring to the persona of Wayne that made him a hero not the real person in interviews, As opposed to the the persona of Donald Trump which is an asshole in the same way that Donald Trump the person is an asshole.

Subject: RE: BS: Has Americanism Spread THIS far?
From: number 6
Date: 24 Jun 11 - 11:31 PM

well ....y'fiyad .... you can reply "take the damn job and shove it" ... and go out and get another job.

but

for those down on the rez and hearing some dumb assed 2 bit phoney cowboy Hollywood actor making a quote like that .... I'd be pizzed right off ... that would be enough for me to want to start a rebellion.

all in all ... the world could do better without the likes of Wayne and Trump.

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Has Americanism Spread THIS far?
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 24 Jun 11 - 09:14 PM

That's still better than y'fiyad.

Subject: RE: BS: Has Americanism Spread THIS far?
From: number 6
Date: 24 Jun 11 - 07:38 PM

"I don't feel we did wrong in taking this great country away from them. There were great numbers of people who needed new land, and the Indians were selfishly trying to keep it for themselves."

.... quote from John Wayne


biLL   ;_)

Subject: RE: BS: Has Americanism Spread THIS far?
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 24 Jun 11 - 04:42 PM

I think it is the whole "American Exceptionalism" Thing that needs a little rethinking. Since when has humility stopped being a virtue? We need more John Wayne and less Donald Trump.

Subject: RE: BS: Has Americanism Spread THIS far?
From: Don Firth
Date: 24 Jun 11 - 04:06 PM

Methinks McGrath has the truth of the matter.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Has Americanism Spread THIS far?
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 24 Jun 11 - 09:55 AM

I'm proud of sharing the culture which did NOT say:

The Storm God is furious! Let's sacrifice a virgin, preferably from a minority group.

Nothing to do with me, mate, you can find me in the basement, if you can get there.

Let me cast your horoscope and get back to you.

It's fate. There's no point in struggling against fate.

There's only one thing I care about here: my own domain.

When ya get right down to it, can I be sure that this baby is actually mine?

Subject: RE: BS: Has Americanism Spread THIS far?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 24 Jun 11 - 08:35 AM

The relevant question for anyone shouldn't be whether they are proud to be Americans (or whatever) but whether other Americans can be proud of them being Americans (or whatever) - or might possibly be ashamed.

Subject: RE: BS: Has Americanism Spread THIS far?
From: gnu
Date: 24 Jun 11 - 05:17 AM

Kissing couple.

Subject: RE: BS: Has Americanism Spread THIS far?
From: kendall
Date: 23 Jun 11 - 07:40 PM

McGrath, I'm with you on this.Whenever I see one of those bumper stickers, Proud to be American, I want to ask "Why"?

Subject: RE: BS: Has Americanism Spread THIS far?
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 23 Jun 11 - 03:17 PM

Americans are not the only people who step up in time of disaster. There have been plenty of recent examples of that in Japan and elsewhere. Maybe you need to talk about humanism.

Subject: RE: BS: Has Americanism Spread THIS far?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 23 Jun 11 - 01:11 PM

I can never understand how we can be "proud" of anything we haven't done ourselves.

I can quite imagine how people can be "glad to be" some nationality, or even "proud of" some people with that shared nationality who have done something fine - but "proud to be" seems inappropriate somehow.

Subject: RE: BS: Has Americanism Spread THIS far?
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 23 Jun 11 - 11:41 AM

Yes, it's me again.

And for all the anti-religious and the anti-catholics out there, that hospital is run by the Sisters of Mercy.
==================

As a sign of grit and resilience, St. John's one week later erected a tent field hospital — dubbed "Mercy M*A*S*H" by staff.

Sisters of Mercy officials have vowed to build a new hospital over the next 2½ years, though likely not on the site of the old. They promise a smaller, 150-bed facility before that.

All hospital employees are receiving their regular pay. Those who aren't needed at the field hospital are being placed at Mercy-affiliated hospitals or others as part of a "talent sharing" program.

Subject: RE: BS: Has Americanism Spread THIS far?
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 23 Jun 11 - 10:45 AM

Maybe somebody has already done this in this long thread, but if not, I would like to point out that 'Americanism' is a word that's been around a long time, and it means 'being proud of America, or of being an American.'

Nowadays, we tend to frown on it, regarding it as a form a chauvinism. But sometimes, when I see the kindness or the courage of Americans around me, I'm proud to be American myself.

For example, when the tornado destroyed the hospital in Joplin, Missouri, the staff showed real heroism in saving the patients. (I bet that never made the British press.)

However that may be, Americanism is not what Mrzzy seemed to think, which is 'being a drunken thug.'

By the way, isn't it odd that the British use an Irish name (hooligan) for its home-grown louts?

Subject: RE: BS: Has Americanism Spread THIS far?
From: kendall
Date: 23 Jun 11 - 10:11 AM

If there was a riot in say, Boston, would we blame it on Canadians?

Subject: RE: BS: Has Americanism Spread THIS far?
From: GUEST,Patsy
Date: 23 Jun 11 - 08:43 AM

Olddude I can imagine how you must have felt having that happen to your little girl. I remember at the time wishing that our games were more family orientated like in the US. Probably if the football grounds had been more comfortable and more restrictions on alcohol it might have made a difference instead of being herded into our opposing separate stands. Things have improved now because we have learnt from the US that it is much better to be able to watch a game that the whole family can watch. It is a shame that Manchester United player Wayne Rooney had to spoil it with bad language on the pitch not long ago.

Subject: RE: BS: Has Americanism Spread THIS far?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 23 Jun 11 - 07:46 AM

That's a major element in all riots and insurrections.

Subject: RE: BS: Has Americanism Spread THIS far?
From: meself
Date: 23 Jun 11 - 12:38 AM

Nothing political about it, and nothing deep - just a bunch of young men (mostly) who had been drinking all day acting like idiots. Happens all the time, on a smaller scale - this time, they felt even less inhibited than usual because they knew that the cops wouldn't be able to get to them through the enormous crowds of, um, 'concerned citizens' and cell-phone paparozzi (sp.?).

Not much to do with sports either, other than that the rioters were Canuck fans, protestations to the contrary notwithstanding, and their team lost - that may have been something of a catalyst, but the riot was not a response to the loss, it was just the aggressive energy of young males escaping for a few hours from the usual social restraints.

Subject: RE: BS: Has Americanism Spread THIS far?
From: gnu
Date: 22 Jun 11 - 04:11 PM

Hehehehee... Canucks many descended from Celtic and French stock so there is yer impatience factor.

Subject: RE: BS: Has Americanism Spread THIS far?
From: gnu
Date: 22 Jun 11 - 04:09 PM

I just don't understand the connection McGrath. Surely if Canucks had been that pissed iff about the election it would have come sooner. Canucks who are pissed off are not known for their patience.

Subject: RE: BS: Has Americanism Spread THIS far?
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 22 Jun 11 - 04:07 PM

Heres-a-list-of-significant-hockey-riots-in-Canada

Subject: RE: BS: Has Americanism Spread THIS far?
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 22 Jun 11 - 04:03 PM

MacGrath, There have been several such riots in recent Canadian history. This is the first time I have heard that question posed.

Yes Ebbie. I am exceedingly proud of myself. :-D

Subject: RE: BS: Has Americanism Spread THIS far?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 22 Jun 11 - 03:50 PM

"Hockey goons, on or off the ice, don't give a rats ass about politics.

That makes sense - but were the rioters all Hockey goons, or were there other people, maybe pissed off for different reasons, joining in? It didn't look like the normal sports riot of hooligans from different camps ganging up on each other, more like people joining in because they saw a chance for a riot.

Subject: RE: BS: Has Americanism Spread THIS far?
From: Ebbie
Date: 22 Jun 11 - 03:30 PM

JtS, I do congratulate you on your restraint. It must have been difficult not to mention it at all. :)

Subject: RE: BS: Has Americanism Spread THIS far?
From: Charmion
Date: 22 Jun 11 - 03:25 PM

Last time I looked, they had yet to lay any charges against the Vancouver rioters. Even the ones with "I did it!" photos on Facebook.

Subject: RE: BS: Has Americanism Spread THIS far?
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 22 Jun 11 - 02:31 PM

Please congratulate me on my restraint for not having said "100." ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Has Americanism Spread THIS far?
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 22 Jun 11 - 02:30 PM

I was wondering if there is any connection between the riot and the recent election result.

I don't live in Vancouver. But I lived most of my life in Canada. I am pretty sure the answer to that is "no." Hockey goons, on or off the ice, don't give a rats ass about politics.

Subject: RE: BS: Has Americanism Spread THIS far?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 22 Jun 11 - 02:25 PM

I was wondering if there is any connection between the riot and the recent election result.

Subject: RE: BS: Has Americanism Spread THIS far?
From: gnu
Date: 22 Jun 11 - 02:20 PM

Don... "And surely the level of violence involved in Canadian ice hockey is legendary?"

Unfortunately yes. Also unfortunate is the level it was raised to when I decided I wouldn't watch it anymore. It became a TV freak show that was all about the brawls. Same thing happened in baseball. I'd say it was TVism and $ism.

Still, the rioting is unacceptable. I hope the penalties are harsh and well publicized with names and pics.

Subject: RE: BS: Has Americanism Spread THIS far?
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 22 Jun 11 - 02:15 PM

As a reformed fan and poster owner of the Dallas Cowboy's Cheerleaders. I am inclined to say that they have a lot more in common with Playboy than Sports Illustrated ESPN the Magazine.

Subject: RE: BS: Has Americanism Spread THIS far?
From: olddude
Date: 22 Jun 11 - 12:00 PM

Patsy
you think that was bad. How about having your daughter as an NFL cheerleader. Dang I nearly went postal a couple of times from drunk fans next to me shouting stuff. They found out pretty fast that was my kid ... glad those days are over

Subject: RE: BS: Has Americanism Spread THIS far?
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 22 Jun 11 - 11:33 AM

For many years I have seen United States sporting events on television, from baseball to Indy cars, and have been consistently impressed with the way in which Americans have turned their sporting occasions into family days out.

I have rarely seen any sign of violent behaviour, though of course I can't speak to the question of what happens after the match.

I would however be much happier taking my ten year old grandson to an American sports event, than to an English football match.

And surely the level of violence involved in Canadian ice hockey is legendary?

Ducks, and runs for cover.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Has Americanism Spread THIS far?
From: GUEST,Patsy
Date: 22 Jun 11 - 08:28 AM

By and large (Celtic/Rangers and Millwall fans the exception) football supporters are generally much better than they were in the 70's and 80's. I remember going on a date to a Bristol City football match back in 1970/1 and it was the most intimidating experience I'd ever known it so unnerving not enjoyable at all with vicious little skirmishes going on all the time. Not only was security not great back then Stadiums were not too hot on Health and Safety either. I do remember skinheads being forced to remove steel capped boots or thrown out only to cause trouble outside of the ground.

I realise that it is probably not like that now but if I want to watch a match I do it from the comfort of my chair. Crowds do appear to be more controlled these days so that the whole family can enjoy it without fear of getting in the way of any mindless violence but I vowed after that first game I went to that I would never want to ever do that again.

Subject: RE: BS: Has Americanism Spread THIS far?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 22 Jun 11 - 06:02 AM

Football hooligans in the UK rarely seem to go in for looting as opposed to mayhem against each other.

A different phenomenon to what appears to have happened in Vancouver, which seems to have been more about smashing or nicking property, with violence towards people being mainly against people who tried to stop that, rather than between fans of the different teams.

Of course that is based on media coverage of one sort or anther which might have distorted what was really going on. It generally does.

Subject: RE: BS: Has Americanism Spread THIS far?
From: olddude
Date: 21 Jun 11 - 09:39 PM

It has nothing to do with Americans, Canadians or anything else. It happens everywhere. Have a look at the world cup games, there have been many riots. I have a different take. I think it is a group of criminals that use it as an excuse to loot. It happens in every country. In America as many other countries. We put our sins in the front window for everyone to see. That is a good thing, because then we can be appalled by such behavior and try to prevent it in the future. As others also do. This had little to do with sports, it is like what has happened here in America over the NBA final, an excuse to commit crime and loot store fronts. If there are a large group of people rioting, then the criminals can get away with it .. my take.

Subject: RE: BS: Has Americanism Spread THIS far?
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 21 Jun 11 - 09:05 PM

Too much LDS? So the Mormons were responsible for all that weird stuff that happened in th '60s, huh? Who'da thunk it?

Subject: RE: BS: Has Americanism Spread THIS far?
From: Mrrzy
Date: 21 Jun 11 - 05:18 PM

Yeah, but those kids forgot to change sides! Did a little too much LDS...

Subject: RE: BS: Has Americanism Spread THIS far?
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 21 Jun 11 - 03:28 PM

>>>I would like to substitute the age war. Let's have all the youth on one side and all the grown-ups on the other.

That way, at *some* point, you have to change sides. <<

They did that already. They called it "The Sixties"

Subject: RE: BS: Has Americanism Spread THIS far?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 21 Jun 11 - 02:12 PM

Unless you die young...

Subject: RE: BS: Has Americanism Spread THIS far?
From: Mrrzy
Date: 21 Jun 11 - 01:56 PM

Sports, I think, are intended to sublimate our violent us/them urges...

I would like to substitute the age war. Let's have all the youth on one side and all the grown-ups on the other.

That way, at *some* point, you have to change sides.

Subject: RE: BS: Has Americanism Spread THIS far?
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 20 Jun 11 - 10:15 PM

"Jean choking anyone?" .... good one gnu

... and I agree with your Canuckistan line ... it is fucking sick and unreal.

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Has Americanism Spread THIS far?
From: Greg F.
Date: 20 Jun 11 - 05:33 PM

That's funny, DougR!!

Funny? Not hardly.

Inane, yes.

Subject: RE: BS: Has Americanism Spread THIS far?
From: Greg F.
Date: 20 Jun 11 - 05:32 PM

The only game nowadays is "How many steroids can you take without getting caught"

Again, Not quite.

In the U.S. there's also the very popular game "What obscenely large pots of money can be paid to adult men (and less often women) for playing childrens' games."

Subject: RE: BS: Has Americanism Spread THIS far?
From: gnu
Date: 20 Jun 11 - 04:51 PM

In the news... over 1M riot photos submitted to the pOlice. Six high profile peeps have surrendered to the pOlice... no charges laid as yet.

I wonder if they have any pics of Jean choking anyone? (Canuck joke eh?)

Meanwhile, Canuckistan is shooting and bombing peeps in Afghanistan... Libya...... it's fucking sick and unreal.

Subject: RE: BS: Has Americanism Spread THIS far?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 20 Jun 11 - 04:36 PM

The only game nowadays is "How many steroids can you take without getting caught"

Not quite. There's still Hurling, and Gaelic Football. And even in football (aka soccer) the only real hassles they seem to have about drugs are about them being used recreationally by players.

Subject: RE: BS: Has Americanism Spread THIS far?
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 20 Jun 11 - 04:18 PM

So much cynicism from such a little place. Y'all ought to be writin protest songs! :-p

Subject: RE: BS: Has Americanism Spread THIS far?
From: Bert
Date: 20 Jun 11 - 03:57 PM

...then there is something wrong with sports...

The thing wrong is that there is only one sport. No matter the shape of the ball, the field, the rink, pool, track or whatever.

The only game nowadays is "How many steroids can you take without getting caught"

Subject: RE: BS: Has Americanism Spread THIS far?
From: Stu
Date: 20 Jun 11 - 03:02 PM

"Because they are subliminally upset about a lot of other stuff, and it gives them a convenient outlet."

Blimey . . . so me being upset because Big Eck defected from the Blues to the mighty Villa, then thinking about it a bit and then feeling that we might as well get behind the lad because he had rag all to work with at Small Heath and our team and youngsters are a different class and then feeling a little happier means . . . I've reconciled some internal subconscious conflict and am now at peace with my id and ego?

That's bostin that is.

Subject: RE: BS: Has Americanism Spread THIS far?
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 20 Jun 11 - 02:37 PM

Mrrzy,   Canadians are generally, very peaceful and orderly. About the only thing they do riot about is hockey. But they certainly do riot over hockey and it has nothing to do with the USA. I'm not sure why they do that. I have never felt the urge. But I suspect it is that in a very reserved society, If a young man gets worked up over a certain threshold, he no longer knows how to reign himself in. I think the Vancouver Police plan to look closely at the photos and videos and make public examples of the perps with help the next group of hockey fans in their quest to govern their own testosterone.

PDQ, "moronic", "hateful", "bigot", "racist" Isn't that more than a little over the top? If you are trying to decrease conflict in the Mudcat, calling people such strong names is not a productive approach. However if your aim is to emulate hateful, bigoted, moronic and racist assholes like Beck and Limbaugh, then by all means carry on. What you are doing may be childish, but it is entertaining.