In Search of Nic Jones CD

Subject: RE: In Search of Nic Jones CD
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 05 Mar 08 - 01:49 AM

My reference was not in fact to Nic Jones but to Barry Dransfield who suffered financial loss in the 90s recession when his instrument repair business went under. While Bulmer has, inexplicably, relented in just a few isolated cases and allowed certain artists to re-release their own material, mostly he (and his sidekick Neil Sharpley) have not and have been deliberately obstructive. Why? Who knows but the answer sure lies not in business practice but in the realms of psychology.

This is why Tony Rose re-recorded some of his favourite songs on Bare Bones shortly before his death, just to get them out there. It's why Topic put out Shining Bright, a re-recording by various artists of the songs of Mike & Lal Waterson's Bright Phoebus. There's a stack of rare archive material (see the Leader entry on the MusTrad site for a full catalogue) from other traditional artists no longer with us mouldering in some Harrogate shed. Efforts by independent labels to do deals and get it remastered and released have been rebuffed. Most recently, CM even tried to prevent by injunction the release of Topic's Game Set Match, the recording which paid for Nic Jones' much-needed knee operation.

Punish Bulmer? No, I don't give a toss about someone I have not seen for 30 years. I want artists to have a fair deal (those who are still left) and for the world to be able to hear all this wonderful music. In the meantime, Mr Greenhaus must surely see why he ought not to touch Bulmer's tainted, tatty CD-Rs. And the BBC should know better than to advertise his mail order company on their website. What goes around comes around. Eventually.

Subject: RE: In Search of Nic Jones CD
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 04 Mar 08 - 10:26 PM

Ralphie-(and others)
I can only repeat what I said (though I don't think it's anything unclear)

As I've said on many occasions before, if any artist feels that he or she is being deprived of royalties that he or she is entitled to from any recordings that CAMSCO sells, all that he or she needs do is contact me, and I'll pay the royalty. So far, no applicants.

I fail to see how NOT making this music available in any way benefits Nic Jones, or anyone else. Would someone care to explain this?


Certainly my recommendations are for Penguin Eggs, Unearthed and Game Set and Match (and, somewhat less enthusiastically for In Search Of--I don't think it's musically as good as the others.) But for those who purchase these, and still crave more of Nic Jones' music, I also carry Nic Jones and Ballads and Songs. If Nic is entitled to royalties on these releases, he has but to let me know, and I'll pay them.

It sounds to me that the objective of Charlotte and Diane and the rest of that fervid crew is to, in some strange way, punish Bulmer. Aside from not accomplishing anything, it doesn't help Nic Jones or any of the other artists involved.

And, just to keep the record straight, my motivation in making these CDs available has nothing to do with being a businessman--if I were, I
wouldn't be selling folk muic CDs.

Subject: RE: In Search of Nic Jones CD
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 04 Mar 08 - 09:37 PM

Just to re-Iterate

Nic Jones Available CDs

Penguin Eggs (Topic)
Game, Set, Match (Topic)
In Search Of (Mollie)
Unearthed (Mollie)

Nic Jones NOT Available recordings

Nic Jones (1st LP)
Ballads and Songs
Noahs Ark Trap
From The Devil To a Stranger

Is that clear?

Ralph (who really should know better, but hey....)

Subject: RE: In Search of Nic Jones CD
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 04 Mar 08 - 09:25 PM

Hi Barbara (A Few posts ago)
Sadly, I don't know the sales figures of "In Search" and "Unearthed"
What I do know is that the monies provided from the sales of those two releases helped the family greatly.
Why do you think I spent an awful lot of time working on said project. (And am still doing so....)
Considering the high regard that Nic is held in, and the continuing sales of Penguin Eggs et al, not to mention the award that he recieved from the BBC last year, So, Just think how much money has been denied him over the last 25 years by a certain person who will not do the deal....
Can't get my head around that one.
The only good thing about this thread is that it keeps the issue alive.
I've said it before, and I'll say it again. I'm in for the long haul on this one.
As for Mr Greenhaus. I understand your position as a business man, but, with due respect, don't deal wirh Bulmer. I know you think that the music should be available.......I agree.....
But it should be done in the right way.
You probably can't understand the feelings of us Brits concerning Nic.
Don't get into bed with Bulmer, Please.
Must go, got more editing to do.
Regards to all Ralphie

Subject: RE: In Search of Nic Jones CD
From: The Mole Catcher's Apprentice (inactive)
Date: 04 Mar 08 - 05:35 PM

"You could just come out and SAY you're incapable of explaining it, you know!"

the whole of the sorry Dave Bulmer saga has been re-iterated many, many times and I'm not about to repeat it. The threads are still there if you want to read them

The Dave Bulmer Saga Part 678

Charlotte (the view from Ma and Pa's piano stool)

Mollie Music Mail Order

Subject: RE: In Search of Nic Jones CD
From: Jeri
Date: 04 Mar 08 - 05:23 PM

You could just come out and SAY you're incapable of explaining it, you know!

Subject: RE: In Search of Nic Jones CD
From: GUEST,The Mole Catcher's unplugged Apprentice
Date: 04 Mar 08 - 05:15 PM

"We used to have problems surrounding the early Nic Jones recordings, now we have "isyous"!!!"

nope...we have BIGGER problems

"if you want the Mollie Music CDs and live in the UK,"

wrong, I don't live in the UK..but I'd still rather pay the extra and deal directly with Nic and Julia.

"Mr Bulmer is a big stinky poopie-head"

your description, not mine.

to quote Diane

"The issue is not the medium in which CM reissues are produced but whole manner in which it is done."

and those who are too readily willing to go along with it.


Charlotte (the view from Ma and Pa's piano stool)

Subject: RE: In Search of Nic Jones CD
From: Jeri
Date: 04 Mar 08 - 05:04 PM

Charlotte, Dick has tried to do the right thing to the best of his ability. He asks questions, and he gets nothing but snotty (but otherwise meaningless) answers in return. I know there is quite a bit of ill will, and much of what Bulmer is alleged to have done makes no sense whatsoever.

If an outsider asks what it's all about and gets a dismissive, rude or otherwise unhelpful comment, it looks like nothing more than a feud. If there's more to it than that (and I know there is), surely you can provide some support for your side. Lacking that, it sounds like your main point is that Mr Bulmer is a big stinky poopie-head, and that's why you shouldn't buy CDs from Dick, even if Dick has said he'd pay royalties out of his own pocket.

Any way you cut it, if you want the Mollie Music CDs and live in the UK, it probably makes more sense to get them from Mollie Music.

Subject: RE: In Search of Nic Jones CD
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 04 Mar 08 - 04:52 PM

We used to have problems surrounding the early Nic Jones recordings, now we have "isyous"!!!

Subject: RE: In Search of Nic Jones CD
From: The Mole Catcher's Apprentice (inactive)
Date: 04 Mar 08 - 04:15 PM

From: dick greenhaus - PM
Date: 04 Mar 08 - 04:05 PM

ain't rationalization wonderful....?

Charlotte (will purchase directly from Nic and Julia and skip the middle men)

Mollie Music Mail Order

Subject: RE: In Search of Nic Jones CD
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 04 Mar 08 - 04:05 PM

if the artist in question is entitled to royalties--and that entitlement is determined by contractual agreement--all he has to do is let me know and I'll make sure he gets his royalties from anything CAMSCO sells.

It's fairly obvious that there isn't any sizeable market for old Leader recordings--if there were, I'm sure Mr. Bulmer would have issued them. Unless you believe that he's holding them back, and losing all that income, just to be spiteful..

Leader re-issues are a trivial part of my annual sales. I carry them because a few customers want them, and because I hate to see good music become unavailable.

"It had been sneaked out without even telling him, and NOT by the producer but the current rights owner.
Why no publicity? And, indeed, why no mechanicals payment following the release?"

Well, the current rights owner, by definition, is the one who currently owns the rights. Mechanicals generally refer to automatic payments to copyright holders by folks issuing cover recordings..not applicable here. As to why no publicity, I have no idea. It certainly can't be attributed to motives of greed by CM.

Subject: RE: In Search of Nic Jones CD
From: The Mole Catcher's Apprentice (inactive)
Date: 04 Mar 08 - 03:30 PM

"The issue is not the medium in which CM reissues are produced but whole manner in which it is done."


tantamount to downloading and burning from one of many music download sites on the internet, to me it's exactly the same thing. The lazy persons way of obtaining music...and who pays the price? The artist who's receiving absolutely nothing at all. And "Mr" Greenhaus doesn't see problem? HA!!!

Charlotte (will purchase directly from Nic and Julia and skip the middle men)

Subject: RE: In Search of Nic Jones CD
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 04 Mar 08 - 02:37 PM

The issue is not the medium in which CM reissues are produced but whole manner in which it is done.

Subject: RE: In Search of Nic Jones CD
From: GUEST,The Mole Catcher's unplugged Apprentice
Date: 04 Mar 08 - 02:35 PM

Oh Mr Greenhaus why oh wy do I hear the words and music of Warren Zevon's immortal song......


I lay my head on the railroad track
And wait for the double-E
The railroad don't run no more
Poor, poor pitiful me
}
Poor, poor pitiful me
Poor, poor pitiful me
These young girls won't let me be
Lord have mercy on me
Woe is me

Well I met a girl in West Hollywood
And I ain't namin' names
Well, she really worked me over good
She was just like Jesse James

She really worked me over good
She was a credit to her gender
She put me through some changes, Lord
Sort of like a Waring blender

Poor, poor poor me
Poor, poor pitiful me


I met a girl at the Rainbow Bar
She asks me if I'd beat her
She took me back to the Hyatt House
I don't want to talk about it

Poor, poor pitiful me
Poor, poor pitiful me
Poor, poor pitiful me
Poor, poor pitiful me


Charlotte (will purchase directly from Nic and Julia and skip the middle men)

Subject: RE: In Search of Nic Jones CD
From: BB
Date: 04 Mar 08 - 02:31 PM

Dick said:
"I also fail to see why CD-Rs --the only medium in which this limited-volume material can afford to be produced economically--is "bogus"."

Pavane had already said:
"I believe it is not too expensive to get proper CD's pressed in the small quantity which a folk release would require (I am sure have seen quotes for 500 or 1000.)"

Most folk labels of the likes of WildGoose, Fellside, etc. initially have 500, or at the most 1000, pressed at a time, and in the case of any Nic Jones recording, selling 500 would, I'm quite sure, be no problem at all. Ralphie, you probably know what the sales of 'In Search of Nic Jones' and 'Unearthed' have been, just to prove the point. I know that the likes of Wildgoose and Fellside don't *just* produce CDs for the love of it, but to make at least some profit. Pity CD can't do it the same way - and they don't have the initial recording costs either!

Barbara

Subject: RE: In Search of Nic Jones CD
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 04 Mar 08 - 02:00 PM

Take the example of one artist whose cleaner turned up at his house one morning with a CD-R she'd found in a well-known high street retailer and asked what he knew about it.
Answer: Nothing.
It had been sneaked out without even telling him, and NOT by the producer but the current rights owner.
Why no publicity? And, indeed, why no mechanicals payment following the release?
This is the sort of charlatan Dick Greenhaus chooses to do business with.
This is merchandise which ought not to be touched with the proverbial boat manouvring object.
Anyone who does should not be surprised at being held in total contempt.

Subject: RE: In Search of Nic Jones CD
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 04 Mar 08 - 01:44 PM

(Sigh)
As I've said on many occasions before, if any artist feels that he or she is being deprived of royalties that he or she is entitled to from any recordings that CAMSCO sells, all that he or she needs do is contact me, and I'll pay the royalty. So far, no applicants.

I fail to see how NOT making this music available in any way benefits Nic Jones, or anyone else. I'm also a bit bemused by the concept that an artist can somehow "sanction" or "approve" the release of any recording unless there was a failure to live up to a contract by the producer of the recording.

I also fail to see why CD-Rs --the only medium in which this limited-volume material can afford to be produced economically--is "bogus".

Subject: RE: In Search of Nic Jones CD
From: GUEST,The Mole Catcher's unplugged Apprentice
Date: 04 Mar 08 - 12:18 PM

""nor is it constructive in any way that CD-Rs of Nic's work are being distributed."

Why not? "

the word immoral comes to mind, not ilegal but immoral, and if I say anymore, well, I just might regret it. I will, however, discourage people from purchasing from Camsco Music

Charlotte (will purchase directly from Nic and Julia and skip the middle men)

Subject: RE: In Search of Nic Jones CD
From: Andy, Port Erin, I-O-M
Date: 04 Mar 08 - 12:15 PM

If you wanted to record one of Nic's songs then providing it has been or is in "first distribution" you do not need any permission but as always it is courteous to gain that OK if you can. It is up to the person who then distributes that title to register the new performance with MCPS etc so that WHEN it is manufactured (by any means) the mechanicals royalties are accounted and collected. Reciprocal deals with other collecting agencies will then mean that royalties are collected and distributed properly from any territory in the World where the record is manufactured and sold.

The manufacturer of the "mechanical" piece (CD, Vinyl, tape etc) needs obtain a licence to manufacture and the granting of that licence, in the UK, has been gifted to the MCPS. If the title is not registered with MCPS by a composer/arranger member etc, the MCPS will have no interest in it and will not collect on behalf of the member concerned. That does not mean therefore that a royalty is not payable and the manufacturer will need to ensure that due arrangements have been made to pay the royalty to the publisher/author/arranger independently of the MCPS or risk procedings under the law. I think it goes without saying that the chances of being "done" other than by MCPS are remote as so many who SHOULD know better simply dont take care of their copyrights. They then become prey to Carion!!! You know what I mean, I am sure.

In short its a minefield where artistes etc are routinely rogered by unscrupulous individuals and companies simply because they fail to bother with such details.

There are also many cases where certain people have had the audacity to "claim" ownership of PD/Trad titles!! Does the MCPS care, nah. They will generally take the line of least resistance and pay out to the most audacious! This often happens when titles with the same name (but otherwise entirely different) are "claimed" by the better known "owner". Poor old Buck Owens lost out big time to the Presley writers for the song "Hot Dog" for instance.

There is no doubt that the best, safest and most honest way is to engage with the original writer/artist/publisher or its estate to ensure that copyright is acknowledged and that any recording deal is set up properly and is mindful of the obligation to remit the appropriate royalties.

Sorry if that sounds like a lecture but its a topic very close to me and one I feel quite passionately about.

Subject: RE: In Search of Nic Jones CD
From: pavane
Date: 04 Mar 08 - 11:38 AM

Oh well, another blind alley I suppose.

So who WOULD the arranger's (and composer's) rights belong to?
Would they have to be specifically assigned to someone?
If I wanted to record a song using Nic's arrangement (wish I had the ability!), or perhaps publish the arrangement as tablature, say, who would I pay the royalties to?

Subject: RE: In Search of Nic Jones CD
From: Andy, Port Erin, I-O-M
Date: 04 Mar 08 - 11:29 AM

To pavane

You are nearly correct about the duties etc of MCPS but they are, like the MU (for instance) a rather toothless old dog.

CM (if they have "put into distribution" an item which in itself infringes copyright) or indeed anyone infringing copyright commits a CRIMINAL offence quite aside from any civil action brought by a third party. The Copyright Designs and Patent Act of 1986 details all the relevant ways of infringement and the penalties for doing so.

From what I am led to understand, the chances of MCPS doing anything whatsoever are limited to put it mildly. There are other routes to focus the attentions of actual and would-be infringers and that is in the first instance via the local Trading Standards department. If they can be convinced that infringing items are in existence, it is within their power to enter premises under an Anton Pilar order and "remedy" the situation.

We are all likely to evaporate before MCPS or PRS decamp from their cosy armchairs.

Subject: RE: In Search of Nic Jones CD
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Mar 08 - 10:25 AM

The sad thing is that while the 4 Nic Jones Leader LPs remain in this semi-limbo state the easiest way to acquire them is courtesy of Rapidshare or via torrent. A lot of people feel that so long as they're not legitimately available then downloading them is sort of okay

Subject: RE: In Search of Nic Jones CD
From: pavane
Date: 04 Mar 08 - 08:00 AM

Eaxactly.

My point is that if the MPCS ever find a CD or CDR without their logo, and on which they have rights over some of the material, then they have cause to take action.

If I am wrong, then why do I bother to pay MPCS fees on CDR's which my wife makes.

Subject: RE: In Search of Nic Jones CD
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 04 Mar 08 - 07:55 AM

The MCPS exists to protect mechanical copyright and the onus therefore rests with the physical producer of the CDs to declare how many are made.

The PRS protects intellectual rights when your music is performed, recorded or broadcast.

They both live in the same building.

Subject: RE: In Search of Nic Jones CD
From: pavane
Date: 04 Mar 08 - 07:39 AM

You say:
"As CM does not (at last time of checking) hold an MCPS licence for CD pressing (indeed they no longer have a pressing plant), it is rather difficult to say they are doing anything actually illegal. Borderline, yes."

Not a criminal offence but a civil one, I think, and the perpetrator can be sued.

If there is anything on the CD(R) to which MCPS (or their members)have rights, and there is no MCPS logo, then there is clear evidence of wrongdoing and they can take legal action to recover the amount due.

If we look at all the CDR issues, for all artists, then we might well find something to act upon. Song and arrangement copyrights are notoriously difficult to research, including folk songs. Look at Paul Simon and Scarborough Fair, as one example.

PRS are for PERFORMING rights, MCPS for PUBLISHING as I understand, so the PRS would not be interested here.

Subject: RE: In Search of Nic Jones CD
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 04 Mar 08 - 07:24 AM

The Celtic CD-Rs I have seen do not have an MCPS imprint. This indicates that accurate returns for the purpose of calculating mechanical royalties are not being made. As CM does not (at last time of checking) hold an MCPS licence for CD pressing (indeed they no longer have a pressing plant), it is rather difficult to say they are doing anything actually illegal. Borderline, yes.

As far as arranger/composer rights are concerned, these are calculated and due royalties distributed by the PRS. In one specific instance, a former Trailer artist was quite astonished to receive a royalty cheque (being 50% of that due) in respect of airplay for a CD-R reissue of his first album (the other 50% went to the "publisher", a Mr D Bulmer as in the original contract). It was the first he knew that Bill Leader's former plugger was burning his work and selling it. Is this illegal? Dubious. It's not nice though.

Subject: RE: In Search of Nic Jones CD
From: pavane
Date: 04 Mar 08 - 06:51 AM

I am not sure that my point has got through.

1. Would the ARRANGER's rights necessarily have been signed away by the performer? - I don't think so, but I am not a lawyer. I believe that anyone else using these arrangements (and in some cases tunes) would have to make some royalty payment to the owner of the copyright. Does that hold for the issued sound recordings?

2. Therefore, as far as I can tell, whoever issues CDR's should be paying at least the arranger's royalties.

3. The MCPS collect these royalties on behalf of the copyright owner, and base their distribution on the number of copies created.

4. MCPS know exactly how many are pressed, if genuine CD's but they have no way to count the number of CDR's burned. This has been put forward as a reason for CDR in the first place. I believe it is not too expensive to get proper CD's pressed in the small quantity which a folk release would require (I am sure have seen quotes for 500 or 1000.)

5. If the MPCS logo is not present, then they have obviously not been paid, therefore the copyright owners will not get anything.

6. If it is present, then MCPS should know how many are created.

7. If the MCPS find that someone is not paying up on just ONE CDR issue, how many of their other members are also being cheated by the same organisation? Would the MCPS take action? They have deeper pockets than the composers, and exist to enforce their members' rights anyway.

SO do the CDR's in question have the MCPS logo? So far, no-one has answered that question.

Subject: RE: In Search of Nic Jones CD
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 04 Mar 08 - 06:30 AM

Still wondering about the audio stream on the site mentioned in the Little Musgrave thread.

Subject: RE: In Search of Nic Jones CD
From: HipflaskAndy
Date: 04 Mar 08 - 06:11 AM

A quick check on the original sleeves...
and every title on all four of Nic's first albums
shows that they are all Trad Arr Jones and no other composer/writer to account to/for.

True fans should note....
CDRs of the 'missing' albums are being sold.
The Jonses family do not approve of their slae.
They get NO monies as a result of any sales.
There are (stress) NO CDs/CDRs of these 4 albums out there that
the Jonses approve of, or will benefit from.
However much you might desire these albums, DO bear that in mind should you purchase them.
They are...
Nic Jones.
Ballads and Songs.
Noahs Ark Trap.
Devil To A Stranger.

..and as I said above -(just a personal stance) I would advocate you DON'T buy them
until the matter is resolved if you really have Nic's interests at heart.
- Duncan

Subject: RE: In Search of Nic Jones CD
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 04 Mar 08 - 05:36 AM

Duncan.
As a postscript.
It's interesting that the first 2 NJ recordings.
Nic Jones.
Ballads and Songs.
Have been released sneakily as CD-Rs.
But the two famous recordings.
Noahs Ark Trap.
Devil To A Stranger.
Haven't been touched...
I wonder why?
I have to say that if they where released without regard to the family, I would be on the first train north..
Fancy a trip?
Ralph

Subject: RE: In Search of Nic Jones CD
From: pavane
Date: 04 Mar 08 - 05:30 AM

Was I right in my previous analysis, that composer's rights and arranger's rights have to be totally independent of the rights to the sound recording? Because there may be third parties involved, who have no contract with the recording company. (i.e once a song is published, it can be recorded by anyone)

If the CDR does not carry the MCPS logo (either on the CD or the insert) or equivalent for the country of production, then there is no guarantee that this legal requirement being observed.

If the CDR DOES carry this logo, then the composer and arranger should be getting appropriate royalties from the MCPS, which would be easy for the owner of the rights to check.

So do they or not? it should be simple to check.

Subject: RE: In Search of Nic Jones CD
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 04 Mar 08 - 05:25 AM

Duncan.
I can add no more.
A plague on all the houses of people who retail bogus CDs.
Well said mate.
Ralph Jordan.

Subject: RE: In Search of Nic Jones CD
From: HipflaskAndy
Date: 04 Mar 08 - 05:15 AM

Dick, the argument is well spread over Mudcat.
You are playing Devil's Advocate, I think?

The two 'camps' will never agree on the rights & morals,
but just to make it emphatically clear from my standpoint....

Your company (well, I take it the 'Dick' on the contact page of the said site is you?)
is advertising (one of) the now famous 'disputed' CDRs
I will, therefore, never buy anything from that company.
Furthermore, I will positively encourage any folk fans, friends, anyone I have course to discuss the matter with,
or that are in any audience I stand before at gigs and festivals, by any means I can,
to similarly boycott yours, or any company selling the said CDRs until those items are withdrawn from sale.

You have your policy - I have mine.
Yours (very) sincerly - Duncan McFarlane

Subject: RE: In Search of Nic Jones CD
From: pavane
Date: 04 Mar 08 - 03:06 AM

I didn't find any difficulty in setting up Paypal (But not many people have used it!)

Subject: RE: In Search of Nic Jones CD
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 03 Mar 08 - 08:15 PM

"nor is it constructive in any way that CD-Rs of Nic's work are being distributed."

Why not?

Subject: RE: In Search of Nic Jones CD
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 03 Mar 08 - 06:14 PM

Steve Turner sang Ruins by the Shore this evening (with all due acknowledgments, of course), when he guested at the Herga Folk Club.

Kitty

Subject: RE: In Search of Nic Jones CD
From: GUEST,The Mole Catcher's unplugged Apprentice
Date: 03 Mar 08 - 03:48 PM

Kevin, I re-read Mustrad and got it right.

"Of course none of that information helps Nic or the other people whose L/T releases are lost, hidden, not available etc."

nor is it constructive in any way that CD-Rs of Nic's work are being distributed.

Charlotte (fair is fair)

Subject: RE: In Search of Nic Jones CD
From: GUEST,JohnB
Date: 03 Mar 08 - 03:28 PM

I got mine, as many as I have direct from Julia.
No problems whatsoever, shipped to Canada.
JohnB who for some reason does not have "Game Set and Match", must correct that situation, WITH A CHEQUE.

Subject: RE: In Search of Nic Jones CD
From: Kevin Sheils
Date: 03 Mar 08 - 04:52 AM

"the original Leader/Trailer catalogue number is LER 014
Ballads and Songs was relesed on the Tailer yellow label in 1970

information sourced from the
Musical Traditions Traditional Discography"

Hi MCA

Just for the sake of accuracy the original cat no of the vinyl was LER2014.

It's explained on the mustrad website but can be bit confusing. The Leader/Trailer releases initially followed a 4 digit numerical pattern where the first digit was 2.3 or 4 depending on price and the next 3 digits followed a numerical sequence 001, 002 etc. In order to show the list in a numerical sequence mustrad has the initial digit in white which hardly shows up against the background but can be seen if text is highlighted.

Of course none of that information helps Nic or the other people whose L/T releases are lost, hidden, not available etc.

Subject: RE: In Search of Nic Jones CD
From: HipflaskAndy
Date: 03 Mar 08 - 04:50 AM

Have done so, Anne - thanks - Duncan

PS Anyone else needing to contact the Jonses - to buy or make enquiries
- the email address is there for all to view at Mollie Music website
- someone has already done the blue clicky link a wee bit further up this thread. Cheers!

Subject: RE: In Search of Nic Jones CD
From: Anne Lister
Date: 03 Mar 08 - 02:24 AM

Duncan, if you can pm me with Julia's email I'd be happy to help.

Anne

Subject: RE: In Search of Nic Jones CD
From: KeithofChester
Date: 02 Mar 08 - 05:35 AM

I've bought things from a number of people doing it the way Tabster is talking about.

Subject: RE: In Search of Nic Jones CD
From: HipflaskAndy
Date: 02 Mar 08 - 05:21 AM

You've put it succinctly Barry - that's exactly what I was meaning.
I didn't manage to sort paypal on our own site, had to get a mate that's real PC savvy to set it up for me (which he did with ease!
I was hoping someone (near enough) might volunteer to do the same for the Jones.

And thanks Tabster-Anne, interesting. Wasn't aware of that (me being a partial PC numpty).
Perhaps you could send Julia the 'know how' by post or email in a step by step form? Bless ya. - Duncan

Subject: RE: In Search of Nic Jones CD
From: Anne Lister
Date: 02 Mar 08 - 03:45 AM

The beauty of PayPal is you don't have to have it on your website as a separate button, you just have to offer the possibility of it and people can do it all via email. I'm speaking from experience here - I haven't got around to putting the PayPal "button" on my website yet, but I've sold a number of CDs from my website using PayPal. It just means instead of completing an order form and putting it in the post with a cheque people send you an email, verify your PayPal email address and bob's your uncle.
As cheques are being phased out, it's probably a good way to go if operating a credit card system is too expensive.

Anne

Subject: RE: In Search of Nic Jones CD
From: Barry Finn
Date: 01 Mar 08 - 05:43 PM

I put paypal on my website. It was quite difficult for someone like me who has very little computer savy & who does well with blueprints but not with written directions. It took me a number of times & many days to work through it even with the directions & advice. If Julia's worst than me with computers then I'd imagine it's a nightmare for her, maybe a computer savy friend could help her in setting it up?

Barry

Subject: RE: In Search of Nic Jones CD
From: The Mole Catcher's Apprentice (inactive)
Date: 01 Mar 08 - 04:38 PM

Mollie Music Mail Order

Mollie Music,
PO Box 189,
Yelverton,
Devon.
UK
PL19 1BA

Charlotte (this view from Ma and Pa's piano stool)

Subject: RE: In Search of Nic Jones CD
From: GUEST,The Mole Catcher's unplugged Apprentice
Date: 01 Mar 08 - 04:30 PM

Nic Jones official website trumps Camsco everytime..and, of course Nic and Julia get the money, thus cutting out the middle man...or shouold I say, middle men....

Charlotte (the view from Ma and Pa's piano stool)

Subject: RE: In Search of Nic Jones CD
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 01 Mar 08 - 04:16 PM

Both "Ballads and Songs" and the eponymous "Nic Jones" are on the Leader label. the number 2014 designates the CD-R release of the LP 014.

CAMSCO's prices are:
Game, Set, Match: $13.98
Penguin Eggs: $13.98
Ballads and Songs $18.00
Nic Jones: $18.00
In Search Of: $18.00
Unearthed: $25.00

All prices in US dollars plus S&H

Subject: RE: In Search of Nic Jones CD
From: The Mole Catcher's Apprentice (inactive)
Date: 01 Mar 08 - 02:11 PM

in my hurry to post the previous message I misspelled Trailer and released, as you may have noticed *LOL*

Charlotte (spell check isn't working)

Subject: RE: In Search of Nic Jones CD
From: The Mole Catcher's Apprentice (inactive)
Date: 01 Mar 08 - 01:43 PM

These are the Nic Jones CD's available at Nic's official website, as previously mentioned by Diane:

In Search Of Nic Jones MMCD01 £12.00

Unearthed MMCD02/03 £17.00

Penguin Eggs TSCD411 £11.00

Game Set Match TSCD566 £13.00

Now, perhaps someone can explain to me where this, found on Camsco Music's website, fits in to the picture

"LER 2014d Ballads and Songs Nic Jones "
(I believe I already know the answer, I just want to hear it from someone else)


the original Leader/Trailer catalogue number is LER 014
Ballads and Songs was relesed on the Tailer yellow label in 1970

information sourced from the
Musical Traditions Traditional Discography