BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: Peace
Date: 06 May 06 - 01:20 AM

An interesting link that gives a perspective:

http://news.scotsman.com/politics.cfm?id=681212006

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: Peace
Date: 06 May 06 - 01:16 AM

PS,

The main loser of seat was Labour. Not other parties. Address your comments to the Labour Party.

I take this kind of thing quite seriously; but, I have trouble taking people like 'Gillian' seriously. Sounds too much like the duchess at tea for me.

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: Peace
Date: 06 May 06 - 01:13 AM

Then your solution is obvious: Wake up your government. And maybe this election is what the needed.

I do not dismiss the BNP. I simply say they are racist, Nazi scum.

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: GUEST
Date: 06 May 06 - 12:51 AM

Peace - your dismissive comments and refusal to acknowledge the serious issues behind the BNP's success sound exactly the same as the attitude the Government takes. Which is precisely why the BNP are doing so well.

I'm far from being a supporter but I see this as blindingly obvious. Nobody ever believes the BNP will be a political force, but surely the Government are not so stupid as to fail to recognise the public voice. Silly me, of course they are.

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 05 May 06 - 10:03 PM

Oops, too late

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 05 May 06 - 10:02 PM

100

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: Peace
Date: 05 May 06 - 08:58 PM

. . . grow lots of nuts.

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: GUEST,Gillian Brookbourgh
Date: 05 May 06 - 08:42 PM

Loosen up old boy, no need really for such high drama.         


From Little acorns to Mighty Oaks

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: Peace
Date: 05 May 06 - 08:29 PM

No doubt you are. But, the BNP is a fringe party made up of racists and wannabee Nazis. They'll never be more than that. Enjoy your bubbly, dear.

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: GUEST,Gillian Brookbourgh
Date: 05 May 06 - 08:26 PM

Champers really flowing tonight in several areas of London after election. They guys really found it funny and so pathetic to hear those old lines about personation and imitation, oh ha ha, Really didn't happen at all.

At the party I was at tonight, I delivered an email of congrats from Peter Robinson and Jeffery Donaldson of the D.U.P. splendid respectful response to a victory, so proud of them for doing that.

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: GUEST,Respect in Tower Hamlets
Date: 05 May 06 - 06:49 PM

Respect campaigners in Tower Hamlets have reported widespread voter imitation and misuse of postal ballot papers...this has been reported on the Respect website and to the authorities.
Despite this the party has gained 12 seats which is one more than the nazi BNP gained in Dagenham.
ifor

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: Peace
Date: 05 May 06 - 06:10 PM

The problem with protest votes is that occasionally some real lunatics get into power.

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 05 May 06 - 06:09 PM

It might be sensible to ask why the BNP did so well in Barking, and Respect in Tower Hamlets (despite alleged widespread personation).

The likely answer seems to be a sizeable chunk of voters feeling that the mainstream parties fail to represent them. That way lies failure of the democratic process.

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: Peace
Date: 05 May 06 - 05:09 PM

Geeze, you must have .001% of the council seats. Friggin' yeah for you and your racist party.

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: GUEST,Gillian Brookbourgh
Date: 05 May 06 - 04:58 PM

Some recent posters seem somewhat quieter today. Gosh I imagine the old local results thing has something to do with it !

I bet some chaps are Splicing the Mainbrace somewhere tonight, I am heading to a bash in Epping, must dash !

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 04 May 06 - 07:15 PM

Results due later tonight then.

If the kit shows two blue bars, may I be the first to congratulate you.

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: Peace
Date: 04 May 06 - 06:54 PM

"The BNP said it would be fielding 357 candidates in a bid to increase its current tally of 20 out of Britain's 22,000 council seats."

A force to be worried about for sure . . . .

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: GUEST,Gillian Brookbourgh
Date: 04 May 06 - 04:42 PM

Results due later tonight

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: GUEST,ifor
Date: 30 Apr 06 - 12:23 PM

The holocaust survivor who has received threats from racist thugs and who has had his house attacked for speaking out against the rise of the far right and the BNP in this country is Leon Greenman.He is now 96 years of age and not 90 as I previously wrote.

Leon ,a British citizen was arrested along with his wife and infant son in Holland in 1942.His wife and infant son were murdered by the nazis in Auschwitz -Birkenau but Leon survived the death camps by a miracle.

He has spent many years talking about his terrible experiences and warning about the rise of the racists and nazis.

In 1994 he led the huge anti BNP march at Welling and has received death threats and his house has been attacked. Only a few years ago money had to be raised by anti racists to install security systems to protect his house after it was attacked by some of these aryan supermen of the right.

Leon is an inspiration to everyone opposed to the racists and nazis.
ifor

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Apr 06 - 11:44 AM

These are the people who have attempted to terrorise a 90 year survivor of the holocaust with bricks through his window and death threats because he persists in warning us about the threat posed by the BNP and other far right bullies in this country.

Care to back that one up friend? That is useful stuff

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: GUEST,ifor
Date: 30 Apr 06 - 09:31 AM

The BNP may well have policies that protect bees and sand dunes...the fact of the matter is they are race hate obsessives.

It is by their race hate policies that they have to be judged.These are the would be aryan supermen who deny that the holocaust that cost 6 million lives in WW2 took place .
These are the people who have attempted to terrorise a 90 year survivor of the holocaust with bricks through his window and death threats because he persists in warning us about the threat posed by the BNP and other far right bullies in this country.

This is the party that was founded by that well known British nazi John Tyndall with a string of convictions for race hare crimes and violence as long as your arm. This is the party whose activists in the north of England were caught on camera boasting of how they enjoyed stuffing dog mess through the doors of asian shopkeepers.This is the party whose member David Copeland exploded two nail bombs in Soho and Brixton because he hated black people and gays.This racist killed three and maimed hundreds.

The BNP is stuffed full of racist thugs,violent criminals and social misfits......they might well be all in favour of protecting the environment but it is a party of nazis and racist creeps.
ifor

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Apr 06 - 04:01 AM

Would be interesting to see what the BNP has to offer in regard to health, education and welfare.

Seems as if they have left this thread for the moment. Too many questions being asked of them.

Fucking hell. Yes why dont you get Labour supporters on here to explain there policies. It's useless asking BNP members, or any party their policies, you simply go to their manifesto.

Go have a look there if you want to know. im guessing the leadership of the parties have busier things to do than come on mudcat.

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Apr 06 - 03:53 AM

billy bragg is a joke. he lives in a 'hideously white' area of upper class dorset. No working class multi-cultural society for our Billy.

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: GUEST,DG
Date: 29 Apr 06 - 04:58 PM

"No wonder some folk are turning to the BNP, Blair is the best recruiting sergeant they will ever have........."

"the self-removal of my big Scots "baws" with a blunt instrument"

"Would any of you self rightouse arseholes let your daughter marry a mugger?"

Clearly some people are beyond reasoning.

No answers to any of the very valid points made by people above regarding immigration, racism and the need for a campaign against the BNP.

At the end of the day I hope the BNP don't make the inroads on May 4th that it has been reported they might.

In future, I'm sticking to the music section.

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: akenaton
Date: 29 Apr 06 - 04:55 PM

I think theres a lot of truth in what you say Big Phil.

What is it that makes nice normal people turn to groups like the BNP?
Mainly disillusion with the political process.
Blair has squeezed the heart out of Labour.
No one believes what they say, they have ditched most of their socialist principles, no one takes responsibility for any mistakes, in short they treat the electorate like fools.
Well it looks like these local elections are going to be an almighty shock for Mr Blair and his followers.
I'll be sorry to see any gains for the BNP but I'm sure there will be some.
But more power devolved to smaller groupings like the Greens, Socialists and Independents will be a good sign for the future.

I would also like to see George Galloway's Respect Party gain strength....Just to spite "Warmonger Blair"....Ake

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: Big Phil
Date: 29 Apr 06 - 02:14 PM

Not surprising, as Bragg is allegedlly a lover of our Tony and his cohorts, gone right off him now i'm afraid, Who can now back Blair after all this scandal his party is enmeshed in. No wonder some folk are turning to the BNP, Blair is the best recruiting sergeant they will ever have.........

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: GUEST,DB
Date: 29 Apr 06 - 01:07 PM

Would any of you self rightouse arseholes let your daughter marry a mugger?

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: John J
Date: 28 Apr 06 - 07:25 PM

I've just got home from a very informative and highly inspirational anti-BNP concert by Billy Bragg.

John

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: ard mhacha
Date: 28 Apr 06 - 04:35 PM

Giok, c`mon 1989 isn`t the distant past, after all 1690 is fresh in the memory of the Rangers support.

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: akenaton
Date: 28 Apr 06 - 12:44 PM

Well thanks for the invitation DG.

Unfortunately I have a previous engagement, which on paper looks slightly more attractive.

It involves the self-removal of my big Scots "baws" with a blunt instrument and toasting them over a slow fire...Ake

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 27 Apr 06 - 08:48 AM

Sorry, Ake - But I got the same impression as DG (NOT DtG - we are seperate people!) as well. Apologies to you for the misunderstanding but the words you chose rang remarkably like racist dogma. Glad to see that it was simply a poor choice of words rather than a poor choice of philosophy :-)

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: GUEST,DG
Date: 27 Apr 06 - 07:24 AM

Ake, I'm sorry to have annoyed you with that post, but after reading the following comments,I had the impression that you were a little bir right of centre. They seem fairly typical of the racism I have encountered;

"the Indian and Pakistani communities have no wish to integrate!! And have no wish to dilute their culture."

"multiculturalism is simply not working in the UK"

I would much prefer to be a "wet behind the ears would be intellectual" than someone who makes comments like this about ENTIRE groups of people;

"They distrust one another and despise the Scots"


"Maybe when you grow up" - Mate, I'm old enough to have my own opinions. I'm sorry your heyday was in the 60's, and it must be difficult to keep up. This comment really does say a lot about the chip on your shoulder.

I never said Ealing was the cutting edge, I was merely giving an example of an integrated, multicultural society that you have claimed 'isn't working'.

I'm back up in Scotland on Friday. Should be great. Next time I'm in Glasgow (July) we should meet up for a pint.

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: akenaton
Date: 27 Apr 06 - 06:20 AM

Dave I think you have misunderstood much of my post..
Probably my fault for being a " SEMI- LITERATE, filth spewing, racist idiot".   :0)    All the best ..Ake

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 27 Apr 06 - 06:12 AM

Whoops - I am not sure whether etc.

Damn that grandma checker...

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 27 Apr 06 - 06:07 AM

Thanks, Ake - All I wanted to know.

Leaves me a little puzzled as to why you had to make the point about East European immigrants but at least now we know that your intentions were to "ensure that a feeling of resentment against them does not arise in the communities they live in".

I am not whether saying "The "problem" in the area where I live is a large number of Eastern European immigrants who take jobs with local firms, then begin to compete for contracts with the people who employ them. When these contracts are secured, they bring people from their own countries to work for wages which a British family could not sustain themselves on." does actualy ensure that this feeling of resentment does not arise.

I guess what you meant was because you are quite happy for this to happen everyone else should be? Does the same apply to your points about most of Glasgow being owned by Pakistanis and Indians who will not invite white people to their houses?

Did I just misunderstood your post?

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: akenaton
Date: 27 Apr 06 - 06:01 AM

Guest DG....Where the fuck did I ever say that the BNP were a solution to anything!!

As a member of the Communist Party in the 60's and 70's I fought through words and physically, for the people you can only pontificate about.
Your remarks yesterday describing me as a "Filth spewing racist idiot" are typical of wet behind the ears would be intellectuals.

Maybe when you grow up you may discover the difference between a political argument and a racial agenda.

Ealing!!......Well you're right at the cutting edge there mate!

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 27 Apr 06 - 05:52 AM

It's not th ones that mouth off you worry about, as no doubt you are aware it's the ones that say nothing, but use their vote silently in favour of these crackpots.

Over here we heard Paisley for the last forty years rattle on against everyone outside of his church, so many say he goes over the top, but when it comes to putting the slip in the box, he comes out top of the pile.

Would be interesting to see what the BNP has to offer in regard to health, education and welfare.

Seems as if they have left this thread for the moment. Too many questions being asked of them.

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: akenaton
Date: 27 Apr 06 - 05:48 AM

Dave ...Of course I think immigrants should be allowed to work here.

I thought that was evident from my previous posts.
We do require extra workers , but must ensure that a feeling of resentment against them does not arise in the communities they live in, which will be exploited by groups like the BNP ..Ake

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 27 Apr 06 - 05:14 AM

In my days as a trucker all the Iranians I ever met were driving big American Trucks like Macks and Internationals, they seem not to see the conflict!
G..

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: GUEST,DG
Date: 27 Apr 06 - 04:35 AM

Also, I wholeheartedly agree with Ifor's message above. Anyone who thinks the BNP will have any solutions to anything is completely deluded.

A while back I read that at a BNP conference they had samosas and onion bhajis as snacks. On one hand enjoying the fruits of a multicultural society and on the other spouting hatred. Idiots.

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: GUEST,DG
Date: 27 Apr 06 - 04:25 AM

"They know very well that to achieve this situation will mean a reducion in living standards for our people."

Sorry Ake, but I have to disagree with you on this one. While we have to compete in the global economy, we're not even trying to compete with India and China in terms of manufacturing. What Britain can compete in is the tertiary industries (banking, for example). While these sectors grow, there are fewer people to take up the menial tasks in this country (as mentioned above, bar workers, cleaners, traffic wardens etc) - that's the gap that needs to be filled.

I fail to see the correlation between immigrants taking up these jobs and a lowering of living standards. Most of these services are now well regulated and these people are on the whole, here legally and pay income tax and national insurance.

"There is no propblem regarding the integration of these Eastern Europeans, many of whom I have met locally."

Seems to be a bit of a change of heart from your previous post;

"The "problem" in the area where I live is a large number of Eastern European immigrants who take jobs with local firms, then begin to compete for contracts with the people who employ them."

Final point;

"The point I was making is that the multiculturalism which is being presented to us by the politicians is in many cases a sham.
What we have are quite separate communities"

Seperate communities does not necessary mean that there is no integration. If you moved to a new country, it's likely that you'd move to an area where you knew people (look at the British invasion of the Costa del Sol) there's nothing wrong with that. To see integration in action, have a look at London. I live in Ealing, which must me one of the most integrated areas in the UK.

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 27 Apr 06 - 04:18 AM

Oh, sorry, and you still have not told me what your answer is. It is a very simple question. Should immigrants be allowed to work here or not? A simple yes or no will do.

D.

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 27 Apr 06 - 04:16 AM

I spoke to one nice young man from poland who told me that even on minimum wage and the other benefits he receives, he can live here and send home more money weekly than he can earn in Poland.

I find that a little odd in itself, Ake. As you say, he lives here. He has to pay for living here. The cost of living is the same for him as for everyone else. Yet he, on minimum wage, manages to live here AND send more money home than he can earn in Poland? Why is that? Why can the nice young man from England who lives in the same street not live on the same wage and still manage to save enough money to put aside? Do you not find that little incongruity puzzling? I do.

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: GUEST,ifor
Date: 27 Apr 06 - 03:58 AM

The point is to make sure that the nazi BNP does not succeed in making progress or taking pwer.We have the practical lesson of history to warn us what is in store should these nazis take power.

They are obsessed by race hatred of jews ,moslems ,brown and black people and every other ethnic group you can think of.

They also hate the political organisations of the working class...ie trade unions,left wing and socialist parties and know that these organisations will have to be smashed on their route to power.
Hitler smashed every independent organisation in the nazi state.

The BNP also hates gay and disabled people.We dare not allow this gang of racist thugs and criminals to grow ....better to take them on now.
In France the anti fascist organisations were far too complacent about the Front Nationale led by Le Pen and they grew in the 90's into a force to be reckoned with.
However, the Anti Nazi League and more recently Unite Against Racism have shown that we can combine to stop the rise of these holocaust deniers and race hate thugs.
Ifor

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: akenaton
Date: 27 Apr 06 - 03:43 AM

Sorry about the badly written message...already late for work!!
Wish Mudcat had an edit button Ake

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Apr 06 - 03:38 AM

Thec difference is in time autolycus.

The circumstances surrounding immigration today are completely different from those which prevailed when Celts/Picts/Irish /Italians/Chinese/ect ect arrived on these shores.
Or even when Daves family arrived here.
I am sorry Dave feels that I would like his family removed from this country, that is completely wrong and not at all what I would like to see.

Today the govt is continually exhorting us that we must compete economically with India and China if we wish to be part of the "Global ecomomy".
They know very well that to achieve this situation will mean a reducion in living standards for our people.
The political solution is to encourage immigration of low cost labour which will in turn drive down living standards for all.

There is no propblem regarding the integration of these Eastern Europeans, many of whom I have met locally.

Most have very good English, no religious hangups and are very friendly and eager to learn about our history and culture.

The problem lies in the fact that the "playing field" regarding work does not seem to local people to be level.

I spoke to one nice young man from poland who told me that even on minimum wage and the other benefits he receives, he can live here and send home more money weekly than he can earn in Poland.

The story i posted already about the building trade workers who compete for contracts with their employers...without all the insurances and National insurance contributions that British emplyers have to pay is becomming very common here.

These problems have not been created by the immigrants , but by a government who believe more in short term survival of our rotten system than peace and a proper standard of living for all of our people.
As someone said earlier,it is important for us all to realise what is actually happening "on the ground"...if we dont wake up, there is a danger of many sleepwalking into the arms of the BNP or other Fascist groups....Ake

Today we are exhorted by our govt that we must compete with

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: autolycus
Date: 26 Apr 06 - 03:40 PM

Theone thing we learn from history is that we don't learn from history.

If fascism will never succeed in these isles, and I agree with that, then there's no need to get worked up about them. Just ask them where their great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great grandparents came from. Oh wow, I've landed back in that thing that Peace or Rapaire pointed out that even the Celts and Picts were immigrants.


   Ivor

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 26 Apr 06 - 02:48 PM

Come on Ard this was abandoned in 1989, and it is not exactly a current item for debate.
Mind you, f**k knows what I am doing even posting anything about footbal, I loathe the stupid game ☺
I hereby state that I will no longer post anything about football, particularly with regard to the stupid sectarian rivalry between Glasgow Celtic, and Glasgow Rangers!
Giok

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: ard mhacha
Date: 26 Apr 06 - 02:36 PM

To catters outside of the UK and Ireland, this may amaze you, it is only in recent years that Glasgow Rangers have allowed Catholics to sign for their Club, so Pele in his prime would have been a no-no for the famous Glasgow team.

Subject: RE: BS: Who will campaign against the BNP?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 26 Apr 06 - 10:19 AM

Sorry if this appears somewhere else but I seem to have misplaced a post!

Sorry Dave...I did take on board what you said about your family.

I've no easy answers and support for the BNP certainly isn't one.

There a couple of easy answers, Ake. Either let immigrants to this country work here or don't. As the son of a Polish immigrant you may be able to guess my answer. I think that you also have an easy answer. Just no easy way of telling me that you feel my Dad should not be here?

Out of interest again there have been approximately 2 million Poles entering the country since Poland joined the EU. Of those around 10% (200,000) have stayed. Of those 200,000 over 75% (150,000) have been employed in jobs that employers could not fill with British workers (Bar staff, waiters, cleaners, lorry drivers etc.) The remaining 50,000 could pose a threat to you I guess. But I very much doubt it. Well worth bringing to the attention of the BNP though - May take some heat off the Asian immigrants...

Cheers

DtG