BS: Tories just short of a majority

Subject: RE: BS: Tories just short of a majority
From: GUEST,Jim Martin
Date: 10 May 10 - 07:25 AM

sorry, that was me!

Subject: RE: BS: Tories just short of a majority
From: GUEST
Date: 10 May 10 - 07:24 AM

"Lox - I thought I'd copy and paste a point I made on the other gen. election thread as this appears to be the official one now"

Says who?

Subject: RE: BS: Tories just short of a majority
From: Lox
Date: 10 May 10 - 07:21 AM

Did anyone ever see the TV adaptation of "First among Equals" in the 80's

So is it to be Simon Kerslake or Raymond Gould?

Lib Lab Negotiations

Subject: RE: BS: Tories just short of a majority
From: Lox
Date: 10 May 10 - 07:14 AM

UPDATE!


1. This morning it turned out that the Libs said they would consider talking to Labour if Brown stood down.

Then ...

2. Its just emerged that The Libs and Labour have been having face to face negotiations over the weekend.


If I were a gambling man I'd have a heart attack!

Subject: RE: BS: Tories just short of a majority
From: GUEST,Steamin' Willie
Date: 10 May 10 - 07:08 AM

What's a socialist? We have three mainstream parties of the size and capacity (in numbers and money backing them) capable of forming a Westminster Parliament.

We don't have a socialist one amongst them, just two versions of "middle of the road (my arse)" parties claiming to dismiss their heritage and a liberal offering of policies that are half baked on the understanding they will never become law.

When I was young, and indeed when you were young, whoever you are, the Tories were seen as the establishment, the old men in grey suits, the reactionary Luddites. Labour were the nearest we had to the Socialist Utopia that sounds good on paper.

Well, there is no Labour party. Worse, many younger voters have never experienced a Labour party and are in the position to judge on merit rather than tradition. Young people from working class (whatever that means) families are not conditioned into hating Tories and see no class war in weighing up the options, as the election showed.

Used to be, you voted and you got the Government. Seems we can't even get that right now.......

Subject: RE: BS: Tories just short of a majority
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 10 May 10 - 06:49 AM

Socialists are so easily wound up - I laugh!!

Subject: RE: BS: Tories just short of a majority
From: Stu
Date: 10 May 10 - 06:44 AM

"The dozen or so raving socialists posting here can't assume that millions of others are like minded."

Ah, a true blue attitude. One thing about the Tories (and I used to be a party member) is that they have no idea that people on the whole are intelligent and compassionate enough to understand their votes actually have an effect and exercise their franchise with this in mind.

Now is the time to jettison the old paradigm of self and take a step on the road of progressive politics to benefit all strata of society, not just the rich and scared. If Clegg doesn't recognise that most of the electorate desire this sea-change in parliamentary politics and gets in bed with the Tories then that will be potentially disastrous unless electoral reform is on the cards. Even then, Wales and Scotland will have no voice in parliament under a Con-Lib pact and we all know how the Tories feel about the parties in the devolved countries; it could set politics back for years.

Subject: RE: BS: Tories just short of a majority
From: Stu
Date: 10 May 10 - 06:44 AM

"The dozen or so raving socialists posting here can't assume that millions of others are like minded."

Ah, a true blue attitude. One thing about the Tories (and I used to be a party member) is that they have no idea that people on the whole are intelligent and compassionate enough to understand their votes actually have an effect and exercise their franchise with this in mind.

Now is the time to jettison the old paradigm of self and take a step on the road of progressive politics to benefit all strata of society, not just the rich and scared. If Clegg doesn't recognise that most of the electorate desire this sea-change in parliamentary politics and gets in bed with the Tories then that will be potentially disastrous unless electoral reform is on the cards. Even then, Wales and Scotland will have no voice in parliament under a Con-Lib pact and we all know how the Tories feel about the parties in the devolved countries; it could set politics back for years.

Subject: RE: BS: Tories just short of a majority
From: MikeL2
Date: 10 May 10 - 06:22 AM

hi

Britain waits with baited breath.........!!!

It looks as if the Tories and the Libdems will come to some arrangement.
" All in the national interest of course" - my arse as Jim Royle would say.

How can two parties with almost opposite political stances get into bed together????

There are huge background recriminations in both parties going on, but the " In the National Interest " spin is being woven by both.

Has anyone noticed that Vince Cable, Libdems normal spokesman is almost invisible in this??

Personal power and glory are being spun as being in mine and your interests.

Never mind we will all be voting again in a matter of weeks.

cheers

MikeL2

Subject: RE: BS: Tories just short of a majority
From: GUEST,Steamin' Willie
Date: 10 May 10 - 05:47 AM

Cometh the hour, cometh the man;

My country needs me! After all, elected or not, I would stand out in a well hung Parliament.....

Yee! Haaahh!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Tories just short of a majority
From: theleveller
Date: 10 May 10 - 05:42 AM

With you all the way on that, Lox.

Subject: RE: BS: Tories just short of a majority
From: Lox
Date: 10 May 10 - 04:59 AM

Exactly leveller.

Thats why we need PR.

And the libs need to make this opportunity count.

If they don't we will continue to have elected dictatorships, and the party whips will ensure that democracy is flattened.

Under PR there would have been considerably less haste in the invasion of Iraq.

Subject: RE: BS: Tories just short of a majority
From: theleveller
Date: 10 May 10 - 03:42 AM

Perhaps it's a good thing that one party does not have absolute power because, as the saying goes, power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Look at bloody Thatcher. Look at Blair. Those sorts of politics we can do without.

Subject: RE: BS: Tories just short of a majority
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 10 May 10 - 02:29 AM

Seems that Bonzo is "One Tory Shirt of a Majority" :) - that has to be the expression of the year.

Subject: RE: BS: Tories just short of a majority
From: Lox
Date: 09 May 10 - 08:08 PM

I thought I'd copy and paste a point I made on the other gen. election thread as this appears to be the official one now.

---- snip ----

On the subject of analyisis and predictions ...

I'm starting to wonder whether the libs might jump in with the tories after all.

The language that the libs and tories are using suggests that they are moving into a new phase of negotiation and that they may be comng near to making a deal.

I can handle this as long as there is a referendum on PR.

If Clegg jumps in with Cameron and this commitment is not made then he can kiss his career goodbye and the libs can kiss their chances goodbye for years to come and they will be known as the party who betrayed their faithful.

It will be interesting to see what happens.

--- snip ---

Subject: RE: BS: Tories just short of a majority
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 09 May 10 - 07:17 PM

""And if he's paying five grand a month in tax with a company that turns over £20 million, he really is stupid! Is he, perhaps, George Osborne's advisor?""

Nice try, but no coconut.

The twenty million fantasist was Paco, not Bonzo.

Never mind, eh?

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Tories just short of a majority
From: Gervase
Date: 09 May 10 - 05:56 PM

Most people, when shown up to be as ignorant as Bonzo, would slink off into a corner and do their best to become better informed. But not our Bonzo, who seems to revel in his stupidity.
And if he's paying five grand a month in tax with a company that turns over £20 million, he really is stupid! Is he, perhaps, George Osborne's advisor?

Subject: RE: BS: Tories just short of a majority
From: Tootler
Date: 09 May 10 - 05:09 PM

No Bonzo, they were just pointing out the facts.

There needs to be continuity, so the current PM remains so until his successor has been appointed. That being the case, Gordon Brown remains PM until such time as the various discussions that are going on have finally come to a conclusion. At which point his successor will be named and will take over.

Clearly there is little Gordon Brown can do at this stage except "hold the fort".

Subject: RE: BS: Tories just short of a majority
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 09 May 10 - 04:42 PM

Bonzo, for fuck's sake go and buy and read a book on constitutional law rather than the Sun or Mail.

Sounds like the thought of a Cameron/Clegg government is really getting to you socialists!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Tories just short of a majority
From: Lox
Date: 09 May 10 - 03:52 PM

Les - beautiful!


Dave - I meant that the electorate did indeed vote to ensure people like the BNP were kept out, but that they also used their votes quite shrewdly to ensure that more constructive minority parties were not excluded.

I would also quickly and slightly pedantically point out that the Greens also did well in the national election, winning their first ever seat in parliament as representatives of Brighton Pavillion.

Subject: RE: BS: Tories just short of a majority
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 09 May 10 - 03:12 PM

Bonzo, for fuck's sake go and buy and read a book on constitutional law rather than the Sun or Mail.

Subject: RE: BS: Tories just short of a majority
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 09 May 10 - 02:27 PM

Mr (Ms?)legs or maybe Bonzo, you bring something to this thread that few others ever achieve.

Why?

Best wishes

L in C#

Subject: RE: BS: Tories just short of a majority
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 09 May 10 - 01:57 PM

You clearly all have many issyoos do you not - and all the while Brown clings to number 10 like shit to a blanket!!

Subject: RE: BS: Tories just short of a majority
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 09 May 10 - 01:46 PM

Lox - I did say councils were grass roots politics so it makes sense thatthe greens did well...

Not bad of the cuff:-)

DEg

Subject: RE: BS: Tories just short of a majority
From: Lox
Date: 09 May 10 - 01:21 PM

DDavid - The BNP lost out, but the Greens did extremely well.

Subject: RE: BS: Tories just short of a majority
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 09 May 10 - 09:55 AM

In the local vs national results I believe the big swing to Labour is three-fold. Firstly - The locals always swing the opposite way to the latest general election. Some sort of cussedness on our part maybe? Secondly, amd more importantly, people saw that the minority extemist parties did well in the last locals - one in particular which I will not name because the scan for it! People have realised that unless they did something the loonies would get in again. We have shown what we can do as not a single seat was retained by those in question:-) Finaly. I think that the local labour parties are closer to grass roots, certainly by definition they are 'local., They understand local moods and ideas and have not, as yet, become 'New' Labour (or alternative tories). I think the local offices retain a lot of the old values which central office seems to have lost.

Cheers

DeG

Subject: RE: BS: Tories just short of a majority
From: Jim McLean
Date: 09 May 10 - 09:08 AM

We are told there are 650 seats making the winning cut off at 326. If we take the 5 Sinn Fein seats away (they always abstain) and a further 4 which include the Speaker and his three deputies who are traditionally neutral, we have a new overall majority figure of 322.
Lib, labour and the 9 Nationalist MPs add up to 324 whereas the Tory 306 plus 7/8 Northern Irish MPs only make 314 max.

Subject: RE: BS: Tories just short of a majority
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 09 May 10 - 09:01 AM

Labour did well in the locals. Partly because of high turnout, although this could be a myth, and partly because we were even more unpopular in the last local elections

L in C#

Subject: RE: BS: Tories just short of a majority
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 09 May 10 - 08:13 AM

it is interesting that my local authority has gone from Tory to Labour, while my constituency Labour to Tory. The latter no doubt due to a boundary change that has led to a demographic shift to much higher average income (i.e. more million pound plus houses.)
It means that Acton which is comparatively more deprived has an MP that that was voted for by the relatively more affluent Ealing area. Maybe I'll adopt an MP from one of the surrounding constituencies.

Subject: RE: BS: Tories just short of a majority
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 09 May 10 - 08:05 AM

Hmm proves a point of view that I have held a long time.... There is little or know correlation between income and intelligence.

Subject: RE: BS: Tories just short of a majority
From: Lox
Date: 08 May 10 - 04:50 PM

I see ...

... so lets get this straight ...

of those who voted labour and liberal, a significant proportion were bullied into it or only did it out of party loyalty.

Whereas all those who voted tory did so intelligently, of their own free will and from a well informed perspective.

Ironic how Bonzo seems to be the exception to this rule.

Subject: RE: BS: Tories just short of a majority
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 08 May 10 - 01:17 PM

This means 52% of the voting electorate believe in socially democratic politics -

Rubbish, I'd wager a good % vote as instructed by control freak spouses and parents for a start. A good proportion haven't the first idea what "socially democratic politics" is or have any desire to know, they vote however they have always voted. The dozen or so raving socialists posting here can't assume that millions of others are like minded.

Subject: RE: BS: Tories just short of a majority
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 08 May 10 - 11:51 AM

Why is my country swamped with illegal immigrants?

Prove it.

Nu-labour has gagged anyone who doesn't follow them.

So, I guess you do follow them seeing as you are not gagged?

My business turns over £20million a year...

In April 2009 I paid £9000 income tax.( That is just for that month)

Your business turns over £20m and yet you employ an accountant that lets you pay £9000 income tax in one month?

Like I said before. Barmy by name...

DeG

Subject: RE: BS: Tories just short of a majority
From: Lox
Date: 08 May 10 - 10:50 AM

"Then maybe I will be allowed to a white blue eyed Anglo-saxon again!!"


What are you now?


And how did they stop you from being a white blue eyed anglo saxon this time?


Big Brother has been colouring people in again ...

Subject: RE: BS: Tories just short of a majority
From: Lox
Date: 08 May 10 - 10:47 AM

Paco - its time to go back on the meds mate.

Subject: RE: BS: Tories just short of a majority
From: GUEST,Silas
Date: 08 May 10 - 10:44 AM

Well done. Oh very well done. £20 million a year? I am suitably impressed.













The mind boggles!

Subject: RE: BS: Tories just short of a majority
From: Paco O'Barmy
Date: 08 May 10 - 10:39 AM

Cheers Silas, My business turns over £20million a year. How about yours?

Subject: RE: BS: Tories just short of a majority
From: mousethief
Date: 08 May 10 - 10:35 AM

Why is my country swamped with illegal immigrants?

Things are becoming clearer about Mr Paco.

Subject: RE: BS: Tories just short of a majority
From: Lox
Date: 08 May 10 - 10:34 AM

Not prepared to wait ...

... Give us PR Now!!

Subject: RE: BS: Tories just short of a majority
From: GUEST,Silas
Date: 08 May 10 - 10:29 AM

Actually, Barmy, I've just been googling and it appears that you are not an idiot. You need an IQ of 20 or less to be an idiot. I think you are probably higher than this, 20 - 49 ish. So, you will be pleased to learn that you are actually an imbecile.

Isn't that a relief?

Subject: RE: BS: Tories just short of a majority
From: Paco O'Barmy
Date: 08 May 10 - 10:28 AM

I personally can see no reason why Wales, Scotland and the dreaded Nortern Ireland aren't separate countries! '['Britain is a 17th century construct. F@@k off. Then maybe I will be allowed to a white blue eyed Anglo-saxon again!!

Subject: RE: BS: Tories just short of a majority
From: Lox
Date: 08 May 10 - 10:23 AM

Oh hello - The BNP manifesto ...

... hey - did you hear about how well the BNP did in the genearal election AND in the council elections?

Well guess what ...

... They lost ALL their seats.

Should it be "ta ta" or "ha ha" ...

Subject: RE: BS: Tories just short of a majority
From: GUEST,Allan
Date: 08 May 10 - 10:20 AM

"Scotland should be its own sovereign state, ditto Wales and Ireland. Let them stew in their own juice without English taxpayers support."

You're a bit confused as you seem to celebrating the improved election results of the most pro-union of the 3 main unionist parties! Not only were they originally opposed to any kind of devolution in Scotland and they are vehemently opposed to the SNP's aim to break with the union - but they were also willing to openlt get into bed with Ulster Unionists

Subject: RE: BS: Tories just short of a majority
From: Paco O'Barmy
Date: 08 May 10 - 10:16 AM

Lox,
   No, I am not an idiot! I am a country boy and we have a 'can do' philosophy. In April 2009 I paid £9000 income tax.( That is just for that month) Where did it go? Why is my country swamped with illegal immigrants? Nu-labour has gagged anyone who doesn't follow them. Read Geaorge Orwells 1984.

Subject: RE: BS: Tories just short of a majority
From: Lox
Date: 08 May 10 - 10:02 AM

"Ta ta hippies. You lost!"

You really are an idiot aren't you.

The tories haven't won.

They aren't in Government yet.

And Unless the tories give PR to the libs, they won't get into government.

In which case the Libs and Labour will form the next government.


If by "hippies" you mean the liberals, they are currently choosing who gets in - and they will be a part of the next government.


So in conclusion ....... er ....... DUHHH!!!


Idiot.

Subject: RE: BS: Tories just short of a majority
From: Paco O'Barmy
Date: 08 May 10 - 10:02 AM

Tee hee hee... who's next then trying to turn a defeat into a victory? Definition: Socialism = I want you have got, but I don't want to work for it!    Ta Ta.

Subject: RE: BS: Tories just short of a majority
From: GUEST,Silas
Date: 08 May 10 - 09:59 AM

Bye bye barmy. At least you can thank the Tories for your care in the community.

Subject: RE: BS: Tories just short of a majority
From: Paco O'Barmy
Date: 08 May 10 - 09:41 AM

Scotland should be its own sovereign state, ditto Wales and Ireland. Let them stew in their own juice without English taxpayers support.
Ta ta hippies. You lost!

Subject: RE: BS: Tories just short of a majority
From: Lox
Date: 08 May 10 - 09:33 AM

Very Good Paco.


Back to reality ...


"Scotland's First Minister, SNP leader Alex Salmond, called on the Lib Dems to join a "progressive alliance" involving Labour, the SNP and Plaid Cymru"

This would give the progressive left the majority they need to rule.

As I've said before, SNP and Plaid Cymru would both support PR, and of course the libs would support further devolution of power to wales and scotland.

Labour have always claimed to support these things.

The next 6 months will be about redefining the British political landscape.

All Brown has to do to make it happen is resign.

Now we'll get to see just what kind of a man he really is.

Subject: RE: BS: Tories just short of a majority
From: Paco O'Barmy
Date: 08 May 10 - 09:19 AM

Ta Ta hippies, you lost.