 sj |
||
|
||
BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban
|
|
|
Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 05 Jan 09 - 07:23 PM Rig, To answer you question, they would be short sentences. Amos, ok, I see you are really trying to ferret out the truth..so, because of that, which I respect, if you want to get to the bottom of the discrimination, I would certainly look in the direction of the insurance lobbyists, and their connection with the medical community, and who fund the 'studies', and the politicians, who legislate the laws. It is in that direction that the misinformation is sent out, and exploited. Ever notice, that through a home owners policy, everyone in your home can be covered, whether they are related or not, even renters, if you rent a portion of your home...but not, a homosexual, through your employer, as one poster correctly posted. This is not a matter of laws, and civil rights, this is a matter of the insurance industry's policies. So, all those who look to the civil rights issue, are barking up the wrong tree, which, of course, is where they want you barking! In several posts I have posted, I have repeatedly sounded off about corruption. This is just one area to which I am referring. Because of these lobbyists, we have an unaffordable health care system, which is also in shambles. I am sure they will vehemently oppose any heath care reform, and certainly oppose a one payer system, as proposed by Obama, during his campaign. Fortunately, there ARE some physicians, and counselors, in the field who understand this, and will work with a client. Ever notice new medicines coming out for never heard of diseases???..who's side effects are worse than what is being treated??..I think it would be safe, to include the pharmaceutical, companies as well(duh)! Many doctors, only back up the false studies, because, they get paid from the insurance companies..who in turn only pay out a fraction of what is being paid in, on premiums!!..So there you have it in a nutshell. Instead of 'shooting the messenger'(me..or Ake, who understands what I'm saying), I thank, and am grateful for Mudcat Forum, for a place, to give you accurate information..about what has been a devastation of our medical community, and corrupt politicians...for which we all have fallen victim to. Well I've got a hammer And I've got a bell And I've got a song to sing All over this land It's the hammer of justice It's the bell of freedom It's the song about love between my brothers and my sisters All over this land...(Pete Seeger) 'You've been lied to for so long, that when I come and tell you the truth, you do not believe me'...(Jesus of Nazareth) |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban From: Ebbie Date: 05 Jan 09 - 07:18 PM Or in the style of Mickey Spillane - Amos or Rapaire could do it, I know. Or Norman Mailer? |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban From: Ebbie Date: 05 Jan 09 - 07:09 PM Good one, Rig! Get to work on it, Amos. :) |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban From: Riginslinger Date: 05 Jan 09 - 04:14 PM I wonder what all of that would mean if it were written in Hemingway-esque sentences? |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban From: Amos Date: 05 Jan 09 - 03:22 PM The Southern Medical Journal reports (Aug 1980) that "the range of expression of homosexuality and its association with certain cultural, environmental, and genetic factors are most consistent with the concept of a multifactorial trait. Additionally, genetic heterogeneity in this phenotype (alternative mutants corresponding to a single phenotype) is highly probable. In certain nonhuman and presumably in human species the normal sexual development of the hypothalamus is guided by an appropriate exposure to androgen at a critical early stage, and this in turn presumably contributes to sociopsychologic sex development. Particularly instructive in this regard have been the monogenic experiments of nature in man--XY females with insensitivity to androgens, congenital adrenal hyperplasia, and male pseudohermaphrodites (5-alpha-reductase deficiency). Additionally, in the human, sociopsychologic sex also appears to be molded by sex assigned at birth and sex of rearing. Several of the intersexuality syndromes and psychoses are accompanied by increased homosexuality, but a majority of homosexuals are not in these categories. A limited number of family studies, including twins, tentatively suggests a heritable risk, at least in some families." (Italics added). A |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban From: TIA Date: 05 Jan 09 - 01:05 PM From GfS: "'junk science'...which is no science, at all.....Sorta' like global warming is caused by SUV'S" At the request of GfS that anyone not expert in the field should not debate him or her on the causes of homosexuality, I have stayed out of this. In the interests of reciprocity, this would be the time to request that non-experts in earth systems science should stay out of the climate change debate. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban From: Amos Date: 05 Jan 09 - 10:39 AM Interesting thesis about bonding with the opposite-gendered parent. I have only seen the first few minutes of the gentleman's interview. I am not sure what quality of evidence a talk-show clip is. Is his bok, and its research, available on line? The debate over etiology is really not germane, imho, to the proposition that legal marriage should be uniformly applicable to any couple regardless of their orientation. Under the law, how do you apply the doctrine that all humans are created equal with the Orwellian porposition that heteros are "more equal" than non-heteros? A |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 05 Jan 09 - 03:53 AM Amos, I read carefully your lengthy and researched post. Because I shouldn't 'paste and cut' and answer each of the assertions, one by one, to completely debunk them, I hope you may have watched the video, which certainly refutes the erroneous 'findings' (which dates, I noticed began exactly when I said political pressure was put on the medical and psychiatric community). This video, I'm surprised you didn't come across in your search...or maybe you did, but nonetheless, I found it on my first try. His assertions are near identical to what I told you before..and I had not seen it, until moments before I posted it. Though his techniques differ from mine, it is based, as I said before, on understanding, compassion and sensitivity toward his clients...not a political stance or proving a point, to justify bogus claims. Therefore: All finding and policies based bogus data, are in part, or in it's entirety, erroneous!!!! Sorry! |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 05 Jan 09 - 02:45 AM Well, now that mob rule has once again gone a muck.......and all you are so sure, as to put your best 'arguments' on the line(because some argue for arguments sake).....check this out.... www.youtube.com/watch?v=FOTYFXZb_rE |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban From: Ebbie Date: 04 Jan 09 - 11:46 PM Two questions arise: 1) If those who so vehemently denigrate the gay "lifestyle" were to discover irrefutably that homosexuality is caused by physical differences, would they then change their views? Or would they insist that those who are homosexual must deny themselves and remain celibate all their lives? 2) Would these same people be willing to deny themselves? |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage From: Amos Date: 04 Jan 09 - 10:17 PM To be fair, there is a good deal of opinion amongst professionals that essentially says it is the particular confluence of genes, experience, environment and education which combine as formative elements in individual cases of homosexuality. One group of such quotes can be found on this page. None of which changes the legal issue a whit. A |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage From: Amos Date: 04 Jan 09 - 10:12 PM Borrowed from another post on another forum, some excerpts: "Family fears of catching homosexuality, or of being recruited at school or elsewhere are utterly without scientific foundation." ~ Dr. Jack Weinberg, President American Psychiatric Association, October 6, 1977. "Sexual orientation is deep-seated and not something one chooses to be or not to be." ~ Dr. Alan P. Bell, senior author of "Sexual Preference", Bell, Weinberg & Hammersmith, Indiana University Press, 1981. Gays and Lesbians are not recruted into homosexuality and are not brainwashed into it: "Gay and lesbian children are often aware of being different at a very early age. They generally become aware of their sexual orientation during adolescence or early adulthood. ~ R.R. Troiden, "The Formation of Homosexual Identities", The Journal of Homosexuality, 17, 43-73. "The research on homosexuality is very clear. Homosexuality is neither mental illness nor moral depravity. It is simply the way a minority of our population expresses human love and sexuality. Study after study documents the mental health of gay men and lesbians. Studies of judgment, stability, reliability, and social and vocational adaptiveness all show that gay men and lesbians function every bit as well as heterosexuals." ~ The American Psychiatric Association and The American Psychological Association, July 1994. "Research findings suggest that efforts to repair homosexuals are nothing more than social prejudice garbed in psychological accouterments." ~ Taken from the American Psychological Association Statement on Sexual Orientation, July, 1994. "No scientific evidence exists to support the effectiveness of any therapies that attempt to convert homosexuals to heterosexuals." ~ John C. Gonsiorek and James D. Weinrich, eds., Homosexuality: Research Implications for Public Policy, Newbury Park, Calf.: Sage, 1991. "All attempts fail when gay people try to become heterosexual." ~D. C. Haldeman, "The Practice and Ethics of Sexual Orientation Conversion Therapy", Journal of Consulting and Clinical Psychology, 62, p.221-227, 1994. "Groups who try to change the sexual orientation of people through so-called conversion therapy are misguided and run the risk of causing a great deal of psychological harm to those they say they are trying to help."" ~Dr. Raymond Fowler, American Psychological Association Executive Director "Clinical experience suggests that any person who seeks conversion therapy may be doing so because of social bias that has resulted in internalized homophobia, and that gay men and lesbians who have accepted their sexual orientation positively are better adjusted than those who have not done so." ~American Psychiatric Association "1. According to scientists at the University of Texas, the cochlea (a structure in the inner ear) in lesbians is different than in heterosexual women. 2. This difference was discovered by using a test which measurs the sound that the cochlea makes while responding to a soft clicking sound. The results show that lesbians have weaker click responces than heterosexual women and are more like those of men (the cochlea in heterosexual women is more sensitive than in men). Dennis McFadden, who was the lead conductor of the study, believes that the cochlea of lesbians might be affected by hormone exposure from before birth and presumes that unknown sites of the brain which influence sexual orientation might also be affected. 3. In 1991, a neuroanatomist at the Salk Institute, Simon LeVay, examined the brain tissue from 41 people. He found that a structure within the hypothalamus called the INAH3 of heterosexuals was twice the size of the INAH3 of homosexuals, thus pointing to a bilogical origin of homosexuality. 4. J.A.Y. Hall and D. Kumura from the University of Western Ontario at London ON Canada, compared the number of ridges on the index finegr and thumb on the left hand with the number of ridges of the thumb and index finger on the right hand. The study found that 30% of homosexuals have more ridges on the left hand while 14% of heterosexuals shared the same trait. This indicates a genetic origin of homosexuality, perhaps even before birth, since finger prints develop during the 17th week of the fetus stage. 5. Dean Hamer from the National Cancer Institute led a study which compared the DNA of 40 pairs of homosexual brothers. They discovered that nearly all shared a genetic marker in the Xq28 region of the X chromosome (which is one of the two sex chromosomes), thus pointing to the conclusion that homosexuality has a genetic component. 6. Scientists have observed homosexuality in the animal kingdom. Gay chimpanzees, gay sheep, gay fruit (no pun intended) flies, and gay penguins. While some may argue it is simply animal lust, the gay penguins counter this... gay penguins have been seen in lifelong relationships thus indicating loving feelings and not just animal lust (which we all have in us). The evidence clearly points to the conclusion that sexual orientation is a given and cannot be changed by doctors; and trying to do so is harmful to the patients and often leads to suicide attempts, and sadly some of the attempts are successful. Sources of the information in this essay: http://hcqsa.virtualave.net/studies.html www.qtonline.com/columns/birdsandbees/penguin.asp www.stanford.edu/dept/news/relaged/961212behavgene.html" (All cited at http://www.jeramyt.org/gay/gayrelig/743.html I include these not to bolster the legal case, which stands alone, but to rebut some of the kneejerk homophobic mealy-mouthed twitterpates. A |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban From: Riginslinger Date: 04 Jan 09 - 09:57 PM It's important to inject some gaiety into the conversation sometimes. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage From: Amos Date: 04 Jan 09 - 09:27 PM Rig: You crack me up sometimes, man. :D A |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban From: Don Firth Date: 04 Jan 09 - 09:20 PM Yeah, but that's a whole nother subject. Don Firth |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban From: Riginslinger Date: 04 Jan 09 - 09:04 PM "'Hey, I'm gay, I'm Jewish, and I'm left-handed! How much harder can it get!??'" Nothing you can do about being gay, or left handed, but being Jewish is a choice, so it doesn't belong in there. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban From: Don Firth Date: 04 Jan 09 - 08:25 PM This is the kind of thinking of people who are obsessed with the subject. So over the top it verges on the silly, if it weren't for the harm it can do. Look up "gay conspiracy" on google. You'll run into a lot of the same kind of anti-gay, anti-same-sex marriage nonsense that's being spouted on this thread. And these folks are saying that it's gays who are sick. . . . Don Firth |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban From: Don(Wyziwyg)T Date: 04 Jan 09 - 08:04 PM ""But, that is not what they want, nor is it the goal, of those exploiting their grievances, with all the ballyhooing about their rights being 'denied'!..and if it wasn't for the emotional immaturity that is inherent, in their nature, they'd be doing just that...and no one would hardly notice or care...Have you ever seen a 'hetero pride' parade, where functioning, married, hetero couples flaunt their sexuality????...especially in the manner the homos flaunt theirs??? Why do you think that is?? What is with the 'shock value' that goes along with the disgusting, and lewd behavior these people parade around in public??"" And these are the words of a person who claims NOT to be bigotted. Words which positively DRIP malice and prejudice. ""For anyone's information ONLY.02% got that??..2/10,000, are born, with a gene that is claimed by 97% of homosexuals claim they are born with, that makes them 'unable' to be attracted to the opposite sex, and in fact, gives them the 'attributes' of being a female being trapped in a male body,"" And the words of a person who refers to "junk" science, while being unable to distinguish between a homosexual, and a transexual. That reall helps your argument GfS Don T. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban From: Don Firth Date: 04 Jan 09 - 07:58 PM So--no documentation then. . . . Don Firth |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 04 Jan 09 - 07:45 PM Homosexuals out breed...what?????....I think you just said it all...Don't bother. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban From: Don Firth Date: 04 Jan 09 - 07:43 PM Are you afraid that gays are going to outbreed us and take over the world? Don Firth |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban From: Don Firth Date: 04 Jan 09 - 07:41 PM Re: your last post addressed to me, GfS, it sound to me like you're getting a bit desparate. If I'm wrong and you're right, Let's have some documentation. Don Firth |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 04 Jan 09 - 07:40 PM True wisdom begins with hearing a person with more wisdom than you, and listening to that person, the way you'd want that person to listen to you. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban From: Donuel Date: 04 Jan 09 - 07:39 PM it seems to me... When scientific doctrine tries to hit religious dogma, it wrongly aims at the head, believing that reason resides there. When religious doctrine hits scientific observation it always aims for the groin. I think Rev. Ted Haggard should have the lifestyle he wants. That is one dude that proves that "if it quacks like a dick...I mean duck...its a duck." Same goes for J Edgar Hoover or King David in Bible who was a real queen at times. Obama has some good quotes similar to RFK on the subject. You might even google an Obama Quote generator and have some fun. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban From: Don Firth Date: 04 Jan 09 - 07:37 PM C'mon, folks, get a clue! A few years ago, in a conversation with a friend whom I knew to be gay, on the idea that being gay was a matter of choice, he said, "When you consider that being gay can get you ostracized from friends—and even your own family—can get you fired from your job, and can even get you repeatedly beat up in a dark alley—or killed—who in his right mind would choose to be gay?" Don Firth P. S. On television a couple of days ago, I heard an interview with a member of Congress. When the interviewer alluded to some political issue he was trying to deal with (relating to the economy) and asked him if he anticipated a hard time with it, he remarked, "Hey, I'm gay, I'm Jewish, and I'm left-handed! How much harder can it get!??" |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 04 Jan 09 - 07:27 PM Look Don, I shot it to you straight...you are entitled to believe what you like..or make up your own stuff, and believe it...it's up to you...but to try to convince me that what is, isn't, is a waste of both our time. It's really very simple....I'm right....and your wrong. I have a working history with results, and you don't. It's really simple. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage From: Amos Date: 04 Jan 09 - 07:25 PM So, GfS: you view homosexuality as an elective lifestyle, perhaps a desperate solution to deep unhappiness or intolerable stress in life? Wonders never cease--the whole body of evidence on genetic (non-elective) causes of homosexuality is bogus??? Politically generated BS? Wow!!! I am really glad you tipped me off before I said anything embarrassing. A |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban From: Don Firth Date: 04 Jan 09 - 07:20 PM Cross posted. Sounds to me like you're positing an International Gay and Lesbian Conspiracy, there, Guest from Bewilderment. Right up there with the Illuminati, eh? They now control the scientific community? Don Firth |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 04 Jan 09 - 07:18 PM P.S...Don, those pressures, I spoke of, on my prior post, just to clarify, were done in the mid seventies. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban From: Don Firth Date: 04 Jan 09 - 07:17 PM Me neither, If I were, it would come as one helluva surprise to both me and my wife. Don Firth |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 04 Jan 09 - 07:15 PM Don, As I posted in an earlier post, political pressure was applied to get the medical community, and its training, in the professions, to change homosexuality from a dysfunction, as all living things on this planet primary attribute is to survive and reproduce, to merely an 'orientation' or 'preference'. Though alternative debates have arisen, yours and Amos's are an offshoot, stemming from the highly publicized, politically motivated, claims, the are founded on 'junk science', not accurate and proven treatment, of this treatable condition. The figures I gave you, are accurate, and whatever website you researched, may be just a product of 'politically pressured' re-adaptations, of 'junk science'...which is no science, at all.....Sorta' like global warming is caused by SUV'S. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban From: gnu Date: 04 Jan 09 - 07:08 PM Over the top, eh? Yeah. I kinda figured that. But, it's true. Oh, got a PM... figured I would save any others some tine.... no, I am not. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage From: Amos Date: 04 Jan 09 - 06:46 PM Getting in to semantic horseplay is not going to clarify anything. All marriage-under-law is civil, by nature. The other hankypanky--blessings from old wankers in pointy hats or whathaveyou--is of no interest to anyone, I am sure. So are you saying, there must be two separate but equal versions of the same union? One for opposite-poles, one for like? That's an awful waste of harumph and paper and office space given that it is an identical function being subdivided by a superficial opinion. Why would anyone need to maintain separate but equal facilities for filing papers? A |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban From: akenaton Date: 04 Jan 09 - 06:42 PM As far as I am aware, in the UK civil union has all the legal entitlements,but of course it is the word which is important. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban From: Riginslinger Date: 04 Jan 09 - 06:17 PM Would they reject civil unions, if civil unions gave them all of the entitlements of marriage? |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban From: akenaton Date: 04 Jan 09 - 05:36 PM Well, the people who reject civil union are the homosexual fundies. As Mr McGrath said long ago it does all boil down to redefinition. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage From: Amos Date: 04 Jan 09 - 05:22 PM Well, there you have it in a nutshell. I need professional help, and so does every homosexual human under the sun. Having been advised in this analysis by a true expert, there's no way out. I will seek the help of a professional. Say, GfS, are you one, yourself? A professional, I mean. I'm looking for a highly qualified jolly walker, or maybe a sex therapist. Obviously, I have a lot to learn. A |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban From: Don Firth Date: 04 Jan 09 - 05:18 PM Guest from Insanity, your post above is way out of line in any rational discussion. It's simply rude, insulting, and just plain wrong. #### There is a correlation between same-sex orientation and a particular lobe of the hypothalamus (for verification, do some googling yourself—it's there: "homosexuality" + "hypothalamus"). There are several implications of this discovery (made in the 1990s, I believe). One is that there may be a genetic component to same-sex orientation. Another is that it is based on the structure of the individual's hypothalamus, hence it is not a matter of choice as some try to claim. Nor is it a mental health issue. Since it may very well have a genetic component, that means that discrimination against folks with same-sex orientation is like discrimination against people with blue eyes, or different shaped eyes, or differently shaded skin. It is a civil rights issue. Case closed! Don Firth |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 04 Jan 09 - 04:49 PM Amos, you have just shown me, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that you don't know a damn thing about what you are talking about. It appears to me, that you argue issues armed with uninformed 'opinions', and nothing else. You have further convinced me, though, that you merely spout off, opinions adopted by a political bias, that in itself, is not grounded in fact, reality, or anything of sound mind. My advice to you, is that you seek professional help, as this narrow mindedness probably affects other parts of your life, and happiness, as well.....and that is the 'opinion' of someone who is educated, and highly so, in this field. GfS |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban From: gnu Date: 04 Jan 09 - 04:38 PM "Come Joe, be fair, since when have the pro homosexual marriage brigade stuck to the issues..." I have. (Even tho it is NOT marriage... it IS CIVIL UNION!!!!... when are you gonna get with the fuckin program????... pun intended) And I am not a pro. The only kinda pro I am is a master debater. As someone who masters (I have a degree to prove it) in logical debate and analysis, I must say that the lot of you antis seem to misunderstand elementary debating. Fact... being a homo is legal. Fact... civil union is legal. Fact... all persons are equal under the law. Fact... your arguement is completely fucked up. Now, even tho I dislike many of the ramifications of the obvious outcome of this debate... Fuck off and leave these people alone. They are not hurting YOU. You are hurting THEM. gnightgnu |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage From: Amos Date: 04 Jan 09 - 04:19 PM Your opinion of their mental health --which you offer as a cold hard fact--is cold enough, but it is neither hard nor fact. It is an amateur piece of psychobabble. Deep sadness? What else is new? Everyone has their own, I suppose, at some level, if only by reason ofbeing bound to the Earth.. It is quite judgemental of you to sweep every same-sex person into a mental health category because you have met some sad ones. I know some who are generally bright, productive, loving and happy with their lives. People who, I would say, are in better mental health than you are! Is it possible you are projecting here? A |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 04 Jan 09 - 03:40 PM Ok, then let's get this straight, using nothing but the cold hard facts! Homosexuality is NOT a political issue. It is, in FACT, A MENTAL HEALTH ISSUE!! ...and can, and as has been treated effectively, as such! This is not an 'opinion', but a reality. To just throw money,(other people's I may add) at it, is just an indication, of how far the disconnect, between reality, and certain political agendas, who dig up anything to champion, and bitch about, rather than those very same people, lifting an understanding, and compassionate heart to deal realistically, about it! Yes, I know some homosexuals, who are very gifted and creative people, who in my opinion, border on genius, some who have taught, and worked with me, in both music, sound, and laser engineering, but in this one area, AS SOME WHO HONESTLY ADMIT, there is a deep sadness, that they carry, inside...and it is in honest moments, when talking to someone who is honestly compassionate, and not judgmental, can they open up. I know of which I speak, and what I just posted, is indeed accurate! Unless any of you that understand that, I guess you're stuck with turning it into a political issue, and with sterility, just accept them in large numbers, and stay uninvolved, and placate them to launder your own lack of understanding, care, or involvement...and still convince yourselves that you're doing 'something'!!! |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage From: Amos Date: 04 Jan 09 - 12:43 PM The issue is LAW. In this country law and religion are separate matters. Under LAW a minority is denied privileges available to a majority purely on the basis of sexual orientation, according to the disputed Proposition. By fundamental principle this is an unconstitutional action, or effort. Two free, adult human beings decide to marry. They fill out the forms, are duly ceremonied and witnessed, and the form is filed with the county or state. They are married. In consequence these people have certain rights of inheritance, certain tax statuses, certain spousal rights to represent each other, certain health benefits, and sundry other bits and pieces of status allowed by laws. According to current law, this process may not be overridden by other people on the basis of race, religion, blood type, hair color, skin color, pH level, political preference, metaphysical viewpoints, ear-size, shoe size, eye color, number of digits remaining, height, habits of tobacco, vulnerability to alcohol, left-handedness, epithelial folds, rate of hair curl, facial asymmetry, or degree of spine curvature. Yet in your high wisdom and sanctity, you decree that sexual yearning alone, of all the attributes men and women have, should serve as a completely sufficient basis to deny this privilege to an individual. Of course, there have been, in more repressive times, many cases where a homosexual man married a heterosexual woman. Should these marriages, then, be searched out and nullified? Perhaps a special police force organized? There have been many cases where heterosexual men married women who turned out to be lesbians. Would you like to offer a resolving decree for these cases? Or do you not care at all about the sexual proclivities as long as one Dongle and one Vagina are correctly distributed amongst the participants, regardless of what they do with said shapes? Oh, and may they invite their friends over later? Please? For some experimental activities? Oh, please? They will fill out the forms if you want....do you need triplicate plans? Pfffffft. This is clearly bigotry, no matter how much the Defenders of Purity insist it is not. A |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban From: akenaton Date: 04 Jan 09 - 06:07 AM Come Joe, be fair, since when have the pro homosexual marriage brigade stuck to the issues.....they unfailingly resort to personal abuse when their opinions are questioned. If you don't agree you are branded a bigot or much worse....They don't look at statistics, or listen to alternative arguments, they just reach for the tar brush! I have been one of you strongest supporters here in the difficult job you do....although we rarely see eye to eye. I never take up your valuable time by complaining when I become irritated by the childish abuse levelled at me by long term forum members, so they feel free to use words like "vile", "Homophobe", "bigot", etc to describe my views. The only time I was tempted to complain was when one young lady sggested that I probably abused my own children.....this without any comment from moderators or clones! However, if guest is to be censured for his/her posts....which dont seem personal,unless in response to a snidey insult,....then Don, jeri, and even wee Kat deserve a word of criticism.....Ake
-Joe- |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban From: Joe Offer Date: 04 Jan 09 - 03:48 AM Sanity - your posts regularly border on personal attacks, and I have received a number of complaints about you. Like I said, address the issues, not the people. And yes, it's clear that you continually copy-paste excerpts of posts from others. If you cannot refrain from insulting people, I will be forced to begin deleting all posts from you that address individuals. It's good to hear your opposing point of view, but stick to the issues. -Joe Offer- |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban From: Ebbie Date: 04 Jan 09 - 02:58 AM GtS, thank you for the revelations. I've decided that you are more to be pitied than censured so carry on. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 04 Jan 09 - 12:47 AM Akenaton, I thought I'd post this for you. Though it is 'satirical', there's a lot more truth to this, than one might think. The progression of the story/lyrics, resembles the truth, a lot closer than the lame explanations used to excuse it! www.youtube.com/watch?v=LIoLr8CJzk0&feature=related |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 04 Jan 09 - 12:19 AM Oh, I nearly forgot, Ebbie, I left out a lot of commas, just for you. Being as you'd rather count commas, than read text,(or understand it), so,I thought I'd do you the favor! |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 04 Jan 09 - 12:11 AM Sorry I took so long..I've been watching the news quite a bit today.. Ok..down the line: Rig, the law isn't restricting homosexuals from being homosexuals or the practice thereof. Actually, there is more laws restricting smokers, but non-smokers have their objections to them. Are you suggesting that people don't have the right to be offended, or being concerned about homosexuals, and their behavior in public,that draws attention to their 'orientation' as you call it??..A bit hypocritical, don't you think? Amos, The same can be applied to your reply, however you brought in the religious issue. I don't think you seem to understand that to the religious community, the 'law' that governs them is vastly more strict about this issue than secular law. There is a difference between trying to force them to change the tenets, of their beliefs by attacking them, and churches, just not wanting to sanction the permissiveness that they deem immoral. P.S. to that: I found it interesting that Mormons, who still hold to polygamy, (though discreetly), should help finance opposition to homosexuality. Perhaps more attention to 'Love thy neighbor, as theyself' should be in order, and garner more attention! Don, That as I saw, with her link, may be true...but those comments were not made by me....On your first post, I don't go to them nor watch them, other than what comes up on the news,.they are a disgrace! The camel analogy was used to illustrate, that somewhere, someone,(in this case PETA, who believes that animals should be given the same rights as humans) could ridiculously raise the same bullshit about discrimination...and in their minds, they'd feel justified...though in reality, their just whacked out. Sorry, you needed that explained to you, at least that's my clue, that you don't have much of one! Joe, I didn't 'cut and paste'!...hope everyone knows what they wrote before that I'm commenting on...their positions vacillate in logic so much, I wasn't sure if they could remember! Jeri, As pointed out to you by another post...well yours just too stupid, to comment on. Try again after some coffee and ginkgo biloba, and a few years. and back to Rig, I guess smokers are discriminated against, too..because they have to pay higher rates..if accepted at all. For anyone's information ONLY.02% got that??..2/10,000, are born, with a gene that is claimed by 97% of homosexuals claim they are born with, that makes them 'unable' to be attracted to the opposite sex, and in fact, gives them the 'attributes' of being a female being trapped in a male body, and vice versa!! I guess the smokers analogy, just isn't that far off, then, is it??? Ake, Do you play an instrument, or write lyrics, I'd love to hear them! At least your brain works, and if it was 'protest songs', or something creative, at least it promises not to be the same dribble and drivel, as driven by media talking points. I've wondered if you were a fan of Frank Zappa, who was of course, the satirical voice of conscience of his generation.... The rest can join together in a chorus of Kumbayah', as long as they delete all references, and lyrics to 'Lord'...just to be 'politically correct'!....Bet you I made no friends on this post....unless the sky broke open, and a bolt of lightning hit someone, causing them a new experience, called 'thinking, and reason'!! |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban From: Riginslinger Date: 03 Jan 09 - 11:19 PM Everyone deserves equal treatment under the law. If you ain't got that, you ain't got nothin'. |
