BS: Damned cyclists

Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 20 Jun 18 - 06:37 AM

How's that whataboutery, John? Just trying to instil a little balance and sanity into the thread, that's all! You may think that squeezing onself into Lycra somehow transforms one into an alien devil, but 'tis as nothing compared to the transformation from reasonable person to raging lunatic that takes place once one climbs into one's gas-guzzling, climate-destroying, ultra-powered tin overcoat...

And I'm as guilty as anyone...

Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Mysha
Date: 20 Jun 18 - 06:10 AM

Hi,

Considering trolls are the living mountains, any troll that can fit into a car would have to be underage, and should not be allowed to drive.

Bye,
                                                                Mysha

Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Iains
Date: 20 Jun 18 - 05:27 AM

Might is right! Time for cyclists to wake up.

Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 20 Jun 18 - 05:21 AM

Whataboutery, Steve? I thought you a far better man than that! ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 20 Jun 18 - 05:14 AM

The sheer arrogance of motorists, "needing" to belt around this crowded isle of ours utterly unimpeded in their tonne-weight, globally-warming, gas-guzzling, polluting behemoths, expecting far more environmentally-friendly but slower road-users to just bloody get out of their way, is utterly breathtaking. Get a life!

Steve (former keen cyclist now with shot knees, also gas-guzzling behemoth-owner)

Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: FreddyHeadey
Date: 19 Jun 18 - 11:35 PM

Groups of cyclists should be limited to ten per group and should leave a gap of ten metres between themselves and any group ahead.
Two abreast on minor roads if it leaves four(?) metres free for overtaking
or, when the road is wide enough for a centre marking line, any number abreast to the left of the line.
In my experience it is very rarely safe to overtake even a single cyclist if a car is passing in the opposite direction at the same time.

Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: FreddyHeadey
Date: 19 Jun 18 - 11:15 PM

pfr
In which constituency are you going to be standing for parliament. I'll move and give you my vote
... only if you add
When physically capable
all MPs and councillors and council employees in the highways department
must cycle(\tricycle as slow as they like)
a two mile route across their own town(London for MPs)
once per month.
Car drivers should be re-tested every three years. The standard driving test plus a two mile cycle route.

There.

Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Senoufou
Date: 19 Jun 18 - 02:36 PM

The dead drug dealer had a girlfriend in our village, and they had a little 6yr old daughter together. The funeral was harrowing, and the little girl was present (not a good idea in my humble opinion).
If only her stupid father had had some sense and put lights on his bike (and stopped selling heroin, coke and weed) she might have had a daddy still.
I had a lovely solid dark green Raleigh bike on which to ride to grammar school. It had a bell with a shamrock on it, great thick tyres and no gears, just rod brakes. I called it 'Lucky'.

Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 19 Jun 18 - 02:35 PM

"they / them"

let's remember again to not get too carried away and blame all cyclists...


Actually... now's about time for my proposal [which is is almost certain to be choped...???]


[ Bearing in mind, cycling proficiency test was optional and voluntary at my primary school in the late 1960s ]

Applying for provisional learner driver licenses should be conditional on having first passed
a compulsory qualifying probational period and test for cycling on roads...

Ideally all High school kids should pass this cycling qualification before leaving school.

Fine detail, exemptions for health, and funding this essential formal cycling
[and preliminary for motor vehicle driving] qualification
would be up for discussion...

well... I think it makes more sense...

Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 19 Jun 18 - 02:00 PM

"Obviously, no-one wants cyclists to be injured or killed, no matter how much they may annoy motorists. But they have to play their part and obey the Highway Code and the normal rules of the road."

Absolutely spot-on, Sen. It's far too easy for them to ride like cockwombles but blame every other class of vehicle.

Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Senoufou
Date: 19 Jun 18 - 12:43 PM

It was harrowing indeed Nigel. Luckily the lad hadn't been drinking, he was coming home from work. After it was all over (statements, breathalysing etc) he tottered off to the pub to sit with his friends. My neighbours' son went to be with him, and told us how he'd trembled and shook.
Obviously, no-one wants cyclists to be injured or killed, no matter how much they may annoy motorists. But they have to play their part and obey the Highway Code and the normal rules of the road.

Our little village school does weekly cycling lessons (they go past our house) and the children learn all the strategies for safe cycling. Jolly good idea.

Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 19 Jun 18 - 12:22 PM

I'll also blame parents...

In the last decade or two, kids have been set loose cycling on pavements
because road traffic conditions are too dangerous.
That's fair enough, and a very sensible safeguard.

But at some point in early teens, or perhaps a little earlier,
parents should have the grit and responsibility
to get their kids weened and trained off pavements and onto roads...
How else can they gain experience and confidence of real traffic conditions...?????

Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 19 Jun 18 - 12:03 PM

Something for the Lycra-Lout, airhead, Chris-Froome-Wannabes to think about when they're speeding, weaving, wobbling, racing, trying to beat the lights, yadda yadda.

Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 19 Jun 18 - 12:00 PM

And, of course, the family and friends of the cyclist, the driver, and everyone involved.

Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 19 Jun 18 - 11:58 AM

I guy I knew personally - I used to row with him back in the '70s - was killed by doing precisely that at a junction. He rode up on the left of a large artic., the lorry turned left and his semi-trailer swung 'inwards' as they do, my friend was caught and dragged by the trailer along the road and, eventually, went under the rear wheels. Killed instantly.

The poor driver of the truck was completely unaware of him being there, the cyclist had been sitting in a blind-spot, and the driver was absolutely destroyed by what had happened. In cases like this one, it's not just the un-thinking cyclist who becomes a casualty - it's also the (completely innocent, in this case) driver of the vehicle, the first-responders, and witnesses whose lives are badly affected.

Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Manitas_at_home
Date: 19 Jun 18 - 11:39 AM

They wouldn't. I believe this is the most frequent cause of death in London cyclists.

Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 19 Jun 18 - 11:35 AM

It’s over a year since I’ve been in to Norwich but we have had cyclists cross our path at night with no lights. You don’t see them until you are on them.

It’s even longer since I’ve been there in the day time but I have noticed cyclists squeezing their way between the kerb and heavy vehicles at road junctions. I find it hard to believe the lorries would be aware of the cyclists presence.

Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 19 Jun 18 - 11:05 AM

Good Lord above, Nigel - we agree, completely! ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 19 Jun 18 - 09:52 AM

Eliza, that's a harrowing account.
If the police had smelt the slightest hint of alcohol on the driver's breath he would have been breathalysed. If the test proved positive then any 'assumption of innocence' would have been ignored, and despite the lack of lights etc. on the bike, the assumption would be that the driver was responsible.
A warning for us all.

Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 19 Jun 18 - 09:43 AM

while I was walking..

Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 19 Jun 18 - 09:41 AM

Backwoodsman - no problems - we are on the same page regarding those idiots and tossers...

I used to consider myself a militant cyclist, primarily from a position of self defense and preservation..
I was definitely a very assertive rider..

But there is now an emerging breed of hostile middle class eco warrior cyclists
with a monumental sense of entitlement regarding coexistence on the roads with motorists...

..there will always be extremists and nutters...

My cycling near death experiences were all the fault of careless drivers,
except for one occasion when I had too much over-confidence in my brakes on a steep wet incline...


However my clashes with wanker cyclists have all been on pavements...!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 19 Jun 18 - 09:34 AM

Sen, don't get me started about cyclists riding at night without lights! At least 95% of them do that around here. A complete bunch of dickwads. The police drive past them without turning a hair. Imagine what would happen to a car driver who drove without lights.

Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Senoufou
Date: 19 Jun 18 - 09:27 AM

A few years ago a chap was killed on the Cromer Road, near St Faiths. He was on his bike, no lights and in black/dark clothing. He lived in a village near to our old one, and was a convicted drug dealer. The poor lad who knocked him over couldn't possibly have seen him. There are no lights on that road. He just felt a bump, and stopped his car to investigate.
The Police were supportive of the motorist, but the poor chap (our friends' son) was traumatised, and sat in our local pub trembling with shock.
We all knew the deceased, and although he was a total waste of space I'm afraid, it was still a terrible end to his life.

Nowadays, we still see unlit bicycles, invisible cyclists wearing dark clothing and bikers wobbling around in front of our car. It gives us the shivers.

Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 19 Jun 18 - 09:12 AM

Pfr, did you read the account? She and the horse were properly attired in hi-viz gear.

The behaviour of the cyclists is something I see frequently on the footpaths and roads around here - using the road/path as a racetrack, riding in large 'packs', trying to emulate professional racing-cyclists, refusing to slow down, the 'pack' breaking up and whizzing around anyone or anything in their way. And, of course, the rudeness and abuse from the riders (even on footpaths which are clearly signed 'No Cycling').

You're right in your earlier comment - it's not all cyclists who behave badly on the road - but it's galling indeed to hear drivers of bigger, less manoeuvrable vehicles being bad-mouthed by cyclists when they, themselves, are just as guilty of stupid behaviour.

BTW, I speak as one who, in his youth, was an enthusiastic cyclist, who frequently rode thirty miles or so on a summer evening, seventy or eighty on a full day ride-out to the coast and back. I'm far from being 'anti-cyclist', but I most definitely am 'anti-irresponsible-cyclist' - those clowns give cycling a bad name.

Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 19 Jun 18 - 08:32 AM

Last autumn, around dusk, I was on the front top seat of a double decker bus driving along unlit country lanes...

The bus turned a corner and had to veer to avoid a a young female rider on the road dressed all in black, on a black horse...

No hi viz reflectors, or lights...

This may be stereotyping, but it's fair to presume she was a reasonably well brought up and educated daughter
from one of the nearby village posh families...

Arrogant stupidity and disregard for road safety is universal...

Clash of horse versus cyclist - I'd bet on the horse usually winning...

Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 19 Jun 18 - 08:23 AM

That should be 'see more'.

Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 19 Jun 18 - 08:21 AM

Well, here's a bit more evidence of the arrogance and stupidity of **some** cyclists....I'm pretty sure the cyclist(s) concerned would claim that it's everyone else on the road that's an idiot, not them...

Be sure to read the horse-riders account (click on the 'view more' above the video).

https://www.facebook.com/Idiotukdriversmedia/videos/1134329413381670/

Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Thompson
Date: 19 Jun 18 - 05:06 AM

The solution to people cycling faster than your taste on the 'superhighways' is the Green Wave - this is a system where the traffic lights change in a sequence where people cycling at 20km/h can continue through the whole series of lights without ever having to stop at a red.

It's a nice compromise - 20km/h is nearly double my own normal cycling speed, but is under the 30km/h that training types would go at. And as cycling takes over from driving (as it is already, though this is masked by the fact that a single driver has a whole car around him or her), it will be possible to widen cycle lanes and allow a single lane for the 20km/h cyclists and another for slowpokes like me.

The 'arrogance' charge always makes me laugh, encountering, as I do daily, shouty drivers, registered-blind drivers, drivers capable of steering their vehicles by telepathy while posting on Facebook on their phones, drivers freshening their makeup, drivers smoking, etc. Sometimes doing any of this and others fatally, like this woman who turned around to take a tag off her child's toy toy while driving, and killed a man.

Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 19 Jun 18 - 04:21 AM

Perhaps we could use some of the Brexit Dividend to build segregated cycle lanes in our cities? Then both motorists and pedestrians would be safe from cyclists.

Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Manitas_at_home
Date: 19 Jun 18 - 04:05 AM

It's a new way for middle age men to spend their money. If you're riding a £3000 bike then you need to dress accordingly, don't you? A big problem is that sport cyclists start using the bike for their commute and then treat the journey as a training session and the increasing use of Strava has people straining to beat the best times on various stretches of their journey.I've been using the "Cycle Super Highways" (a bad description) since their inception and a lot of cyclists are trying to cycle them at speeds more suited to the main carriageways.
I often have a chuckle at those cyclists who ignore the stop lines at red lights and sit in the middle of the junction waiting for a gap in the traffic. Usually the lights change without out them being able to see and they find themselves being passed by those who've waited patiently.

Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 18 Jun 18 - 05:00 PM

Some I know are pretty rich, and always have been.

Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Thompson
Date: 18 Jun 18 - 04:58 PM

Cyclists could be defined by John Lanchester's "The trouble with the poor is that they have too much money".

In other words, a group that were looked down upon have lately started behaving as if they're richer, and not humble enough.

Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 18 Jun 18 - 04:51 PM

What socio-economic class are cyclists then? I would have thought it was a pretty broad spectrum. From toffs to gammon.

Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 18 Jun 18 - 03:00 PM

lycra cycle shorts , a modern way for flashers to get most of their thrill - and avoid arrest...

Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Thompson
Date: 18 Jun 18 - 02:06 PM

I did an 11-hour ride last week in a pair of soft, baggy trousers and a cotton T-shirt. Only 100km or so - I'm very slow now that I'm old.

But I'm always astonished, and a little disgusted, at the sneers at people who choose to wear Lycra/Spandex. I would not dream of sneering at golfers for their odd dress, or at tennis or cricket or baseball or basketball players, all of whom have their own choice of dress.

I think the sneers at cyclists and their dress are an expression of class distinction - the kind of Andy Capp stuff that some people used to find funny when the targets were from Africa or the Caribbean.

As for cyclists and red lights, every video-backed study I've read says drivers break the lights more.

Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 18 Jun 18 - 11:42 AM

"Also, cyclists need to remember when using shared paths that pedestrians are often elderly, and in some cases their hearing is not great. So they need to be prepared to slow down or stop if people don't hear them."

Nailed it, David! The worst offenders are the groups of Lycra-clad gorillas riding at high speed on virtually silent, extremely expensive racing bikes, who regard any exhortation to them to reduce their speed and warn those walkers who haven't heard their approach as a personal insult of the highest order.

"Ignorant, inconsiderate, boorish twats" barely covers it adequately.

Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 18 Jun 18 - 11:38 AM

Backwoodsman & Bonz - all joking and sparring banter aside...

As in all walks of life [hah.. puns..eh..???],
I'm sure you would agree that not all cyclists are one and the same,
or even agree with, or like each other...

My simple contention is that an inconsiderate aggressive reckless arsehole is never going to be any different,
no matter how many wheels, or mode of transport....

Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: gillymor
Date: 18 Jun 18 - 11:37 AM

For me a hearty "ON YOUR LEFT" or "ON YOUR RIGHT" with a slow and cautious procession works just fine when pedestrians and dogs are present. I don't think I've ever hit a walker but I have suffered the unwanted attention of dogs on too long a leash.

pfr, after numerous injuries, repairs and replacements to the region from my hips on down (of course, one sector down there still functions just fine) I've taken to riding a "comfort bike", a Cannondale with shock absorbers at the front fork and seat post with upright handlebars and it just glides over the sidewalks and some of the rougher pavement.

Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 18 Jun 18 - 11:31 AM

Also, cyclists need to remember when using shared paths that pedestrians are often elderly, and in some cases their hearing is not great. So they need to be prepared to slow down or stop if people don't hear them.

Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 18 Jun 18 - 11:17 AM

On this one occasion, Nigs, as you've worked so hard and spent so much time in your desperate desire to prove me wrong, I will bow to your superior knowledge.

The rules have obviously changed in the years since I abandoned my push-bike in favour of the petrol-engined version. When I took my cycling proficiency test in 1957, a bell was required on a bike by law, and between 2003 and 2011 a new bike had to have a bell fitted when it left the shop. Any cyclist who doesn't understand the obvious benefits to other footpath-users of having a bell on his bike and using it really doesn't have the necessary intelligence to be allowed out on a bike.

I'm not charmed in the least when the modern cyclist's vocal 'audible warning of approach' tells me, as it frequently does, to "Get out of the fucking way, you silly old bugger," or, when my dog is having an off-lead run on our river-bank footpath which is clearly marked by a 'no cycles' sign, to "Get that fucking dog on a lead!".

Before criticising other Road users, cyclists really should take stock of their own behaviour. Stones, glasshouses and all that.

Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 18 Jun 18 - 10:47 AM

gillymor - well I'll give you 400 miles is a bit more demanding for specialist cycle wear that a 7 mile commute...

Even I relented and bought yellow Hi Viz waterproof jackets
just before my knees and feet got too knackered in my early 50s....

Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 18 Jun 18 - 10:45 AM

Just to clarify, an audible warning of approach can be the cyclist's voice.

Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 18 Jun 18 - 10:41 AM

From: Backwoodsman - PM
Date: 17 Jun 18 - 08:37 AM
I've never tried to kill a cyclist on the roads (or anyone else, for that matter). I have, however, seen plenty of cyclists trying to kill themselves on the roads, and my dog and I when they come flying up behind us on footpaths with no 'audible warning of approach' fitted to their death-trap machines the way they are required by the law.

There is no law requiring a UK cyclist to have a bell on their bike.

The highway code states:
Make sure that you feel confident of your ability to ride safely on the road. Be sure that•you choose the right size and type of cycle for comfort and safety
•lights and reflectors are kept clean and in good working order
•tyres are in good condition and inflated to the pressure shown on the tyre
•gears are working correctly
•the chain is properly adjusted and oiled
•the saddle and handlebars are adjusted to the correct height.

It is recommended that you fit a bell to your cycle.

Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: gillymor
Date: 18 Jun 18 - 10:38 AM

Way back when I used to cycle the length of the C&O towpath from Washington, D.C. to Cumberland, MD every spring with some buddies which was a roundtrip of over 400 miles, including diversions away from the runoff-swollen Potomac. The first time I did it in baggy cotton gym shorts which did not wick away perspiration, took forever to dry and left me with a painful rash by the end of the trip. After that I was a devout convert to spandex and laughed off the accusations of cycling foppery.

Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Iains
Date: 18 Jun 18 - 10:22 AM

I'd like them on my grandkids pushchairs!

Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 18 Jun 18 - 10:15 AM

btw... I'm still googling for any photos of bike wheels with fitted chariot scythe blades..

Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 18 Jun 18 - 10:13 AM

I grew up with cycling as our family's only privately owned form of transport...

[an uncle on the estate did drive a transit van for dodgy dealings
out in the countryside...]

So I've only ever cycled in my normal day to day clothing...

In my 20s I even took on my dad's old national service demob long overcoat, and cycle clips...

At 49 I was cycling in baggy cotton trousers and steel toe cap boots,
and still beating lycra clad wannabes
on short sprint race challenges from traffic lights...

That was a deliberate defiant 2 finger salute to youth and faddish bike culture fashions...

My secret weapon was core body and leg muscle built over years of gym weight training..
and a lifetime cycling for transport rather than weekend sport & lycra fashion parades......

Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 18 Jun 18 - 10:07 AM

I hadn't thought of that. Those head cameras upshorting me as I issue my unwary, cheery "hellos" to the cycling ladies...

Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: gillymor
Date: 18 Jun 18 - 09:58 AM

Beware of "Upshorts".

It wasn't a Fontan it was a Gitane.

Subject: RE: BS: Damned cyclists
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 18 Jun 18 - 09:53 AM

I wore/still wear baggy cycling shorts with a chamois insert. Occasionally, the girls you meet coming head-on get a glimpse of a bit more than they bargained for, but there's nothing like proper ventilation...