From Max: State of the Union Address

Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: kendall
Date: 14 May 06 - 04:23 PM

I would like to know how many of our resident malcontents have ever contributed anything but complaints and generally pissing all over this site?

A few years ago, I got introduced to the Mudcat, and since then I have met many people in person who are regulars (Including the woman I married) and when I travel thousands of miles I like to look them up for a face to face visit. Those folks I would go out of my way to see because I value them as I would any other new friend. Then, there are those for whom I wouldn't cross the street because their very existence is irrelevent to me. Look, I don't care what you think about how this place is run.As far as I'm concerned, if you don't like it, and you can't be constructive in your unasked for opinions, LEAVE! Go to those other superior sites, go to Hell! I don't give a rats ass!

Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: artbrooks
Date: 14 May 06 - 04:19 PM

GUEST 14 May 06 - 02:30 PM: IMHO, the DT hasn't been a conspicuous item in this discussion, other than by a number of unnamed GUESTs, because the DT is not part of Mudcat. It lives here, and other places, but it does not share in the minimal support that the Mudcat itself is given. As was noted above, it can be, and has been, downloaded and rewritten/updated by anyone who wants to take the effort to do so. GUEST 14 May 06 - 01:39 PM said that the DT should be given back to THE FOLK THAT CREATED IT. My understanding is that the person who created it is Dick. If you know otherwise, please share.

Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 14 May 06 - 03:18 PM

If you got a compulsory ten dollars a year from everyone, would that do it? i suppose. we'd miss a few interesting surf bys - but not that many.

I'm wondering what to send. I can't send much, but I wouldn't mind paying a sub like that every year.

there seems to be some dissatisfaction with the quality of mailings. I think it must be hard to understand the British experience.   

To us the internet is very liberating. In my area there is the national folk dj and the syndicated local folk dj. If you're a folksinger - seriously trying to do something with the form, and you don't enjoy the support of these two herberts - then before the internet, you seriously were out in the cold. These characters have stifled folk music for the last god knows how long. the world of podcasts, and webpages like Mudcat have been a ray of hope in a long and very dark tunnel. those of us in our 50's have seen the best songs of our generation never escape from tiny folk clubs - and we are starting to see some of the artists die without ever receiving a fair hearing.

thanks for what you do. I can understand that you think our gigs are hopelessly small time, but they are what we have done with our lives. Though we wear a cheery face most of the time, but what we write really are notes from the underground.

thank you for your help.

big al whittle

Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: Little Hawk
Date: 14 May 06 - 03:02 PM

I don't think it was a moderator I was talking to in this case, Roger.

Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: The Shambles
Date: 14 May 06 - 02:58 PM

Well, tell us who you are then. Why be so afraid as to have to hide behind complete anonymity?

These moderators are not anonymous - The Chief of the Mudcat Editing Team tells us that he knows all their names...........

Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: Little Hawk
Date: 14 May 06 - 02:53 PM

That was to GUEST, of course. Who the hell are you, anyway, GUEST? I gather you are a disgruntled former member? Well, tell us who you are then. Why be so afraid as to have to hide behind complete anonymity? You clearly wish to stick the knife in here and twist it, and see who cries out in pain, so why not just come out and say who you are while you do it? What could you possibly risk by so doing?

Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: Little Hawk
Date: 14 May 06 - 02:49 PM

Ho hum.

Keep it up. You might succeed in your desired objective and actually hurt someone with one of your poison pen utterances. What a glorious achievement that would be for you! A day's work well done, eh?

Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: Ebbie
Date: 14 May 06 - 02:47 PM

Remember 'Rosie, the Record Lady'? Now gone, in no small part because of the kind of harassment of people like some of those here. Not to mention that she was in dire need of financial support-which people like some of those here wouldn't give.

Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: GUEST
Date: 14 May 06 - 02:30 PM

Avoid loud and aggressive persons,
They are vexatious to the spirit...."

Couldn't agree more. Too bad it is just such people who are running the place.

It is very telling that the membership thinks the "best" thing that could happen here to bring Mudcat back to what it once was, a music site, is to lock it away from users by making it a private "membership only" club.

That just speaks volumes to what this place has truly become. A clubhouse for the regulars, with NO commitment to improving the music resource whatsoever. In fact, until I brought it up in this thread, "DT" hadn't even been mentioned by the members posting here. In fact, one rarely even ever sees a SINGLE POST about the need to salvage and begin the work of upgrading the DT and Mudcat music archive.

You are all too busy using the forum as your personal travel service and bulletin board for your gigs.

Oh, and congratulating each other on how wonderful you all are. Let's not forget that.

Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 14 May 06 - 02:25 PM

And where is PeterT? Well last time I saw him post here, he said he had pretty much left this place in the dust

Unless you're talking about a different person, Peter T (with a space before the T) has been posting fairly consistently this year, often to more than one thread on the same day. Sometimes what we think is happening on Mudcat doesn't match the facts.

DC

Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: MBSLynne
Date: 14 May 06 - 02:16 PM

"Speak your truth quietly and clearly
And listen to others, even the dull and ignorant;
They too have their story.

Avoid loud and aggressive persons,
They are vexatious to the spirit...."

Desiderata

Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: Amos
Date: 14 May 06 - 02:12 PM

Ron Davies: May 12, 3:19, Dick Greenhaus did offer that donations by credit could be funneled through Camsco (with no purchase necessary).

~ Becky (Desert Dancer) in San Diego at Amos's, thanks with much thanks to the Mudcat

Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: Little Hawk
Date: 14 May 06 - 01:53 PM

GUEST - Peter T. is a true gentleman. I hope he's doing great, wherever he hangs out these days online. I had the pleasure of his company a couple of times in Toronto with Rick Fielding.

You're quite right, GUEST, that we are not be definition morally superior to other people. Some people have simply gotten used to this place, and they like it here, for whatever reason. They may or may not be aware of the specific issues you raise. In each individual case, that may change with time, and probably will. That's life.

I don't like it here near as much as I did a few years back either. So maybe I will bail out at some point. And then? So what? Will that make me more or less moral, because I stayed or because I left? No. It will just be another of life's changes.

"Everything passes, everything changes, just do what you think you should do..." - Bob Dylan

Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: Big Mick
Date: 14 May 06 - 01:47 PM

Yeah, Hawk. They complain about Max, Dick, and Susan holding the music resource hostage and how they have no right to do this. Gosh, but it is available, can be downloaded for manipulation. And did I miss something? Didn't Susan create it, and Dick has maintained it as has Susan? Wasn't much of the collecting done as a result of Max, at his expense, providing the web hosting? And haven't they made it available for download?

I hope that GUEST goes ahead and downloads it and puts some work into it, instead of hanging around here and reminding us what worthless and unworthy souls we are.

Gosh, I sure wish that GUEST wouldn't waste valuable time on us cretans and go spend that very valuable wisdom and time over at Wiki. I am sure they like his/her type there. Peter T. is a friend of mine and I am sure he would love to spend quality time with this type of arrogance and superiority. Not. Nuff said. In fact too much. Done with this thread. We will have a decent discussion in a different thread.

Mick

Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: Little Hawk
Date: 14 May 06 - 01:39 PM

Mick, you are so right.

Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: GUEST
Date: 14 May 06 - 01:39 PM

"It is amazing to me that people who have nothing good to say about Mudcat, who complain, demand, harrass and badmouth endlessly, seem to spend so much time and energy here."

There isn't anything amazing about it though. You are simply amazed we don't share your taste/choice of friends. That is it.

Some of us badmouth the place because we are pissed that the Digital Tradition and the music post archive are resources that should be freely available for ALL to work on, edit, contribute to, but are not being allowed to because Max & Dick have chosen to make the DT/Mudcat archive THEIRS AND ONLY THEIRS.

I consider that to be not only selfish and arrogant in the extreme, but a tremendous squandering of resources hundreds, if not thousands of people have contributed to.

I said it before, and I'll say it again. I do not value the community here. I value the music resource. I value ALL the people who contributed to it, not the hosers and posers who have made this forum their private club by driving out the people who cared and gave the most to music resource here.

You think that is catspaw and Little Hawk or John from Hull? You think it is Mick's and katlaughing's musical expertise people come here for? Some of us know better, and see that the current management has driven the very people who made this place what it was once, a great music resource, and taken it over so they can play in their private clubhouse, hijacking music threads with their incessant inanities?

No, I don't surround myself in my 3D life with people like those who rule the roost here now. The musicians I know WON'T come here. They have far better things to do with the precious little time they have for music in their busy lives.

The Digital Tradition & music archive accompanying it need to be wikified. Liberated from this awful, awful place. Given back to THE FOLK THAT CREATED IT.

Instead of Max & Dick holding it hostage, so they can keep their sideline cash cows.

Capiche? My values differ from yours. You value the people who come here. I don't. That doesn't make you and your forum majority morally superior. Not by a long shot.

I value the people who created this resource, and believe me, most of them ain't hanging around here.

And where is PeterT? Well last time I saw him post here, he said he had pretty much left this place in the dust. You can find him making positive contributions in a postive online forum with a fantastic online resource--over at Wikipedia.

Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: Little Hawk
Date: 14 May 06 - 01:35 PM

Some GUEST said: "this place is their pet net addiction website"

Well, yeah! Obviously. I KNOW this place is my pet net addiction website. ;-) It's like your daily TV habit. Your beer. Your coffee. Your sex life. Your favorite radio station. And whatever the hell else you are addicted to and take for granted on a dialy basis.

Show me someone without a few such addictions and I'll show you either...

a dead man   

or a superhuman.

GUEST would howl too if his favorite daily fixes were taken away. ;-)

Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: Ron Davies
Date: 14 May 06 - 01:34 PM

I certainly will contribute financially. I'd still like to know if there's any way to use Visa--I already buy CD's through Camsco. And I agree with Nancy--it's great to read about folk events all over the world. It gives a real flavor of each area.

Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: Ron Davies
Date: 14 May 06 - 01:29 PM

Clinton Hammond 12 May 10:11 PM

"So much for discourse then...or did you intend for this thread only for the people who wanna fill your beer fridge and bob their faces in your lap Max?"

Clinton---You're so far off base there--I don't care how strongly you feel about your wonderful ideas--your head seems to be so swelled you can't think any more.

You are a guest--in what amounts to Max's home. For that one remark--which is deep into "Martin Gibson" territory--I'd boot you out the door so fast it would make your head swim. And I suspect that if you said that while in somebody's home, that's exactly what would happen.

You would then have to come to me and tell me you realize you were wrong--and why.

And you'd richly deserve it.

You'd best learn to think before you hit "enter". It would be a refreshing change.

Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: Big Mick
Date: 14 May 06 - 01:29 PM

Hawk, there is no point in communicating with these folks. They are arrogant beyond belief and bitter. We see the GUEST post above from a vindicative person who loves to point out to folks how stupid and sheeplike they are. I am so happy to know that we have someone out there who is so much wiser than the huge majority of folks who have posted an opinion. Another of these great saviours has been told time and again, and now by Max, that he has a couple of points, but we would be better off without him. And now the third that says he doesn't mind how people waste their money, after all it is theirs to pour down a rathole.

There is no point in debating or discussing this with these folks. They are all so much wiser than we are. I suggest that we just keep our opinions to ourselves and let them save us all.

Mick

Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: Don Firth
Date: 14 May 06 - 01:27 PM

What Nancy King said.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: Little Hawk
Date: 14 May 06 - 01:27 PM

You're so right, Clinton, that there are many other such places on the Net besides Mudcat where a person could go for the same basic thing...

At least I assume you're right. I've never been on any other such site, but there must be many. The only thing that really hooks people into a site (aside from its general subject matter) is that they get to know a lot of other people there personally, and that becomes interesting in its own right. They make friends (and some enemies too...maybe). They want to keep communicating with those friends...(and maybe they subcosciously want to keep fighting with the enemies too)... because it becomes part of their life, just like 3-D friends and enemies do...well not exactly the same, but very similar.

That's why this place has become important to many people. It's part of their conscious experience of life, part of their past, part of their identity at this point.

As for all those other sites, I think it's a good thing I haven't gotten into visiting them, because look how much of my time has already been eaten up by being on Mudcat Cafe! It could only get worse if I got used to visiting some other sites too...

Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: Little Hawk
Date: 14 May 06 - 01:12 PM

Clinton, you keep asking why people (the vast majority of people) are upset by hostile or negative things that other people may say to them...

You really don't know?????

I could give you a very good reason why, but you would not believe it.

So it's no use. I cannot hope to communicate effectively with you about things you simply don't believe in.

Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 14 May 06 - 12:57 PM

Guest.... Ummm....

Well..... I grok that this place is 'important' to some... important enough that they're willing to fling money at Max (and honestly I fault them not at all for that.... It's their money... they're welcome to waste it however they want... There are WAY worse ways to spend a few bucks than filling Max's beer fridge..... Whatever)

"This is the only place online many of them come to"
Then they are missing the whole POINT of the internet....

The don't call it the WORLD WIDE web for nothing, folks.... Try looking around it a bit... you'll find that, in fact, Mudcat isn't so unique, so special as you think it is.... Which in NO way has to denigrate how you feel about the place.... but it might help put it into a more realistic context.

Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: The Shambles
Date: 14 May 06 - 12:56 PM

Perhaps it would be better if all complaints about what other posters choose to post were ignored and all posters encouraged (by example) not to post only to judge the worth of their fellow posters but to concentrate on making their own contributions as positive as possible?

Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 14 May 06 - 12:50 PM

Nice one 'Rustic'

Though one could argue that we really don't have options until after we've opened a thread.... Titles are (Or can often be) misleading especially in the BS section.... and until we open a thread we have no idea who has started that thread, unlike most other web forums that display "Started By"

If we had such a display one could very easily elect to simply not open a thread started by someone who is, as labelled above, a trigger....

"I admit that answer is beyond me!"
That's one of the things I've been on about in this thread... Why do people CHOSE to allow other posters to get under their skin? I have yet to see an answer that isn't "That's just how some people are...." (Which to me seems to be a "Just Because" answer, and I stopped giving those any credence when I was or 5 years old.....)

Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: GUEST
Date: 14 May 06 - 12:42 PM

But Clinton! It's a free web forum the members love so much, they are willing to pay for the privlege of having access to a free web forum!

You just don't get it do ya, Mr Hammond? These people are DESPERATE to donate because this place is their pet net addiction website.

What if--GASP--Max pulled the plug on their little cyberworld? This is the only place online many of them come to--the only place they call home, home on the web.

Oh the wailing, the web wandering, the homeless feeling of not being taken in by other music forums that refuse to put up with behavior which is worshipped, celebrated, and rewarded here! What if...?!?!? Indeed.

Only Max and Joe and the clones and their sycophants understand just how deep this river of need runs in this forum's membership...how desperately some here cling to this free web forum they keep paying for, for it is the life boat in the Great Big Sea of Online Music Forums...

yadayadayada

Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: Nancy King
Date: 14 May 06 - 12:35 PM

I can't believe I've finally gotten to the end of this thread! It has taken a LONG time to read through it all. And yes, I have read through it all, because I care about Mudcat and what happens to it. I guess my overall reaction is mixed. On the one hand, I'm glad to see that the vast majority of posters (if not the majority of posts...) are supportive and constructive. On the other hand, it's discouraging to see how a few tedious, repetitive, apparently ego-inspired individuals can clog up the works. But I guess that's the way of the world, isn't it?

It is amazing to me that people who have nothing good to say about Mudcat, who complain, demand, harrass and badmouth endlessly, seem to spend so much time and energy here.

I've been a member and not-very-frequent poster for over five years now, and for the most part, it's been a pleasure. Things do seem to be cyclical. Sure, we've been through several phases when the level of nastiness has gotten quite high, but eventually it abates. Let's hope it will again. I think this thread (thanks for starting it, Max) should help clear the air. It's already cleared out one glaring problem, maybe the others will just get tired or find something better to do.

Meanwhile, the strategy for me will be much the same as it has always been: read the threads I'm interested in, be they music or BS, contribute when I have something to say, and ignore the rest. Above all, do not feed the trolls -- even the member-trolls.

Mudcat has helped me feel connected to the folk music community (whatever that is). Some years ago, when I managed The Boarding Party, I got to do a lot of traveling to folk events in the US and abroad, and got to meet a lot of great folkies. Now I don't have the opportunity to travel much, but I've come to know even more people via Mudcat, and to stay in touch with some I'd met before. Gatherings like the Getaway, which has been greatly enriched by the participation of Mudcatters from around the world, help to cement the connection. Mudcat has provided me with lots of songs and information about even more; with more than a few laughs; with the opportunity to read some great creative writing (where is Peter T these days?); with some lovely trinkets from Secret Santas; with pointers to fascinating websites such as the eagle cam; and, as I said, with lots of friends. I hope Mudcat continues for a long time.

And to that end, my two cents' worth on some of the issues raised early on in this thread:

I have made a few contributions in the past, but it's been a while, and I will send what I can today. I like the idea of a twice-yearly fund drive -- it will remind those of us who tend to forget. I do not like the idea of publicly identifying those who contribute -- that would only strengthen the arguments of those who insist on seeing Mudcat as an exclusive clique. I have no problem with moving the google ads to the top of the page. I don't know how effective the "Buy Mudcat CDs" box is, but as one who bought those CDs when they first came out, I strongly encourage everyone who hasn't heard them to do so -- they are GREAT!

I have no problem whatever with threads about local events (though I do agree it would be nice if general locations were made clear in the titles).

That's it for now.

Nancy

Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 14 May 06 - 12:04 PM

"it's like a club and one expects to pay for club membership"

But it's not a club... it's a free web forum....

Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 14 May 06 - 12:03 PM

Shambles, send Max a PM if you need further clarification. There is no sense in repeating all this in public again and again.

Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: Rustic Rebel
Date: 14 May 06 - 12:00 PM

A thread or two on censorship certainly does not a Mudcat Cafe make!
CHOICE
Such a lovely word it is.
Choice to read a thread...or not.
Choice to participate in a thread...or not.
Choice to respect a persons position on a thread...or not.
Choice to love the people and this place.
Choice to find the threads that you love about it and use all the info that is here for us.
We have the...
CHOICE!!
So why are so many feeling threatened by a couple of threads when there are so many to choose from? I admit that answer is beyond me!

Peace. Rustic

Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: wysiwyg
Date: 14 May 06 - 11:43 AM

Jaze, you just list them in the Auction along with a .jpg you can upload to it (there will be a link). Pick how long you want the item to be up in the Auction; specify a minimum bid (if any) and the shipping details-- whether you will pay them or will the winner.

~Susan

Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: jaze
Date: 14 May 06 - 11:40 AM

Where does one send items to be donated for the auction?

Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: The Shambles
Date: 14 May 06 - 11:39 AM

http://www.greatoceanliners.net/oceanic2.html

The following from the above site.

In 1914, war was declared between Britain and Germany, and the Admiralty required merchant vessels to participate in the hostilities. The Oceanic, who had made her last voyage to New York in July, was commissioned as an 'Armed Merchant Cruiser'. The Admiralty, with no experience in handling such large ships as the Oceanic, appointed the Royal Naval Captain W. F. Slayter to command the ship. As some sort of precaution, Oceanic's own captain Henry Smith was present on the ship.

To have an inexperienced captain proved to be foolish. On September 8, when the Oceanic was three miles off Foula Island (twenty miles west of the Shetland Islands) Captain Smith told Captain Slayter that he had moved the ship too close to land, when trying to pass the to ground her as the current was moving rapidly. Captain Smith was overruled by the naval captain, who insisted on a tight schedule.

Due to this the ship was taken out of course by Mother Nature and grounded on the Hoevdi Rocks in the Shaalds. Since the people on board the Oceanic were stuck on the ship, help was called for and the small trawler Glenogil came to assist and transferred some 400 men to other ships now present. Attempts to pull the ship off the rocks failed, and two weeks later the sea began to handle the Oceanic badly. She was declared a total loss, and all salvage thoughts were abandoned. No one of the two captains was blamed, but D. Blair, the ship's navigator, was held responsible for the sad event. After this accident, the Admiralty changed their procedures so that the merchant fleet would have their own captains when in the Admiralty's service, and that no ship should never have two captains.

Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: GUEST,pattyClink
Date: 14 May 06 - 11:36 AM

Giok, we agree with your points, and all the 'shoulds' in it. Posters should behave better, should stop abuse, etc.

But a handful continue to behave like boors. "Should" ain't working, we've been hearing the admonitions for years. We are going to have to show persistent abusers the door in order to save the store.

Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: John Hardly
Date: 14 May 06 - 11:31 AM

The mudcat is a wonderful archive of useful information (as my friend Mark Clark mentioned). Even as a relative outsider I use it and will continue to do so. As such, I should pay for it. I'll send in something when I get a bit on my feet -- my show schedule hasn't really taken off yet this year.

I've been approached in the past about contributing a piece for auction. I fear I came off poorly in my declining to do so. It's not exactly an unwillingness to contribute my work. It's really just the reality that it would cost me more to contribute work than cash -- AND a pottery contribution would net the mudcat very little if any. The most I'd expect from an auction of a pot would be pennies on the dollar. Nobody here is familiar with me or my work and one shouldn't expect a pig-in-a-poke auction to net much $$.

So if I sounded stand-offish about the donation of a piece (I can't remember who all has asked me for one), I probably didn't make myself clear. It's not the worthiness of the cause that has me hesitate -- it's that it just wouldn't be a cost effective way to meet that goal.

Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: GUEST
Date: 14 May 06 - 11:27 AM

300. How pathetic is that?

Well, just shows to go ya, what the membership here has learned from Mudcat history is that they learn nothing from history.

Hence repetition of the same results, while expecting each time the outcome (donations = stable web site, improvements, upgrades of DT, etc) will be better than it was the last time you donated and things didn't change.

But be proud of yourselves Mudcat donors. Of late, your donations have helped to sustain a web site that has actually gotten much worse, and further and further away from it's mission of providing a decent song database and music information archive.

As they say about fools and money...

Kaching! Kaching! Up goes Max's bank balance!

Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: DonMeixner
Date: 14 May 06 - 11:22 AM

The Mudcat Forum matters to me. Like a lot of people who run small businesses I don't have an abundance of cash but I do have jewelry.
And like a lot of people I take things that are "Always There" for granted. I don't know when help is needed unless I am asked for help.

At the same time I shouldn't have to be asked. I am always willing to help.

Auction items are on the way.

Don

Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: The Shambles
Date: 14 May 06 - 11:18 AM

Max's answer was yes?

Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 14 May 06 - 11:05 AM

"If Max is going to allowed this to continue - then the whole thing will continue to be spoilt.........Is this example of public judgement and abuse of posters by moderators going to be allowed to continue exactly as before?"

Yawn. I think this was answered much earlier.

Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: The Shambles
Date: 14 May 06 - 10:43 AM

Wesley S came up with this Mudcat forum specific version. I did ask if if could be included in Joe's FAQ - but I don't suppose it was.

Grant our members and guests the serenity to accept the things they cannot change - the courage to change the things they can - and the wisdom to realise that this is a forum open to the public and that they have no control over the posts and ideas of others

Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: Auggie
Date: 14 May 06 - 10:35 AM

I hadn't been here in months. I spent 20 minutes reading this thread, and it served to reinforce why I no longer bother to check in on the cat.
I started lurking here daily about 5 years ago, posting about 4 years ago (under this name 2 years ago). It was once a lovely neighborhood to visit. It's a shame what a handful of posters have done to it.
Just as in the real world, you can only dump garbage in an area for so long before the stench permeates everything and makes visiting too unpleasant a task to contemplate.
To those who remain, I wish the decent among you the best of luck in returning Mudcat to it's former self. Me? I've seen enough here...

Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 14 May 06 - 10:04 AM

Shambles:

Long ago someone stated it much better than I could ever hope to:

"Lord, grant me the strength to change the things I can change,
the serenity to accept the things I can't change...
and the wisdom to know the difference"

Nigel

Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: The Shambles
Date: 14 May 06 - 09:43 AM

"I've always liked the fact that Mudcat is open to anyone to air their opinions...free speech is a very precious thing, but to confuse the freedom to voice your opinions with a perceived freedom to abuse, upset and hurt people is part of what's spoiling the whole thing."

Indeed and were our moderators not encouraged to indulge in setting the example - of posting personal judgements of the worth of, to abuse, bully and call their fellow poster's names - perhaps the whole thing would not be so spolied?

If Max is going to allowed this to continue - then the whole thing will continue to be spoilt.........Is this example of public judgement and abuse of posters by moderators going to be allowed to continue exactly as before?

Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: Susan A-R
Date: 14 May 06 - 09:11 AM

Max, the check (long over due) is in an addressed, stamped envelope, ready to go. Ironically, it's finally happening at a point when I visit the Mudcat less and less. Mainly, I'm too occupied with playing music to get here much, and it has been a heck of a year, but I also find it more difficult to wend my way through threads where people are assuming the worst of each other. I just don't see well enough to spend so much time avoiding other people's bristles and growls. I miss people though, so I check in now and then to see where I can catch up with folks live, and to make sure everyone's ok. In the fall, I am hoping to do a road trip and visit some folks (sale of the Kitchen is under way, as is divorce. Yup, quite a year.)

Anyway, thanks for the place, it's wonderful, still, because there are still wonderful folks sharing tunes, info and friendship. Sorry to have to wade through the other stuff.

Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: skarpi
Date: 14 May 06 - 07:47 AM

Lynne you said it
"
I've always liked the fact that Mudcat is open to anyone to air their opinions...free speech is a very precious thing, but to confuse the freedom to voice your opinions with a perceived freedom to abuse, upset and hurt people is part of what's spoiling the whole thing."



I agree ...........


All the best Skarpi Iceland.

Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: voyager
Date: 14 May 06 - 07:47 AM

MUDCAT is

WITHOUT-A-DOUBT

the finest CyberSpace Forum we subscribe to.

Max - The PayPal bits are on the Wire.

voyager

Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: AllisonA(Animaterra)
Date: 14 May 06 - 07:46 AM

I have followed this thread as I have come to follow most things on the Mudcat lately, with interest, bemused, but reluctant to post. I've spent more time away in the past year or so than in the previous 8. But I always come back, because I never cease to be amazed at the over-all success of this place- the wit, wisdom, depth of knowledge in so many areas, the kindness and care, generosity and stick-to-it-ive-ness of the vast majority of folks who hang around here.
I've learned to utterly ignore posts that I might find tedious. I've spent far less time below the line than I used to. But I keep coming back, because here is where so many of my friends are, and where great things still happen. There's still amazing music here, folks, and good people.

When I try to imagine what my life would be like without the Mudcat, I realize the knowledge I've gained, the friendships, the contacts, the ways my mind has been opened, and I'm grateful.

Thanks, Max, for this place, and thanks for speaking up and generating this conversation, however it has evolved. I still may not speak up as much as I used to, but I send my widow's mite when I can, and will continue to do so.

Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: MBSLynne
Date: 14 May 06 - 05:47 AM

I am relieved to find that, while the thread has deteriorated in a lot of ways, mainly due to the activities of a VERY small minority, I agree 100% with a large proportion of the posters here, and though I disagree with some, their points are put in an intelligent and rational way so that the disagreement does nothing to upset or distress me. This last is certainly not the case with some people on here. I've always liked the fact that Mudcat is open to anyone to air their opinions...free speech is a very precious thing, but to confuse the freedom to voice your opinions with a perceived freedom to abuse, upset and hurt people is part of what's spoiling the whole thing.

As soon as our financial state is stable again (ie when Ted gets another job) I shall contribute. As someone says, it's like a club and one expects to pay for club membership. But clubs can and do reserve the right to exclude troublesome members.

Love Lynne

Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: The Shambles
Date: 14 May 06 - 05:39 AM

We need Ignore lists.

In front of you at this moment you already have all the EDIT - CENSORSHIP - IGNORE buttons that you will ever require.

But it of course much more 'fun' for those like my resident stalker to follow the example set by (some of) our moderators - of constantly posting only perfectly pointless personal judgements of the worth of their fellow posters. many of of which they do appear to see apply equally to themselves.........

Along with others I also think that those who are so sure that their opinion is more important than anybody elses including the site owner, should depart forthwith.
It is not necessary to be foul mouthed or insulting to be thought of as a pain in the arse, monotonous or self opinionated postings can be just as alienating.

Rather than simply accepting the realities of a forum that is still open for public contributions - some of our posters now appear so desperate to be included in the 'inner circle' that I am sure they would willingly pay regular and handsome memebership fees to be signed-up members of this excusive private private members club that many of them find so attractive.

So Max forming an additional private members club for them - should solve everyone's problems and the resulting money from this club can go to supporting all aspects of the existing site who will them be left in 'peace'.

This appears to be a win - win senario? How about it Max?