From Max: State of the Union Address

Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: Janie
Date: 12 May 06 - 10:46 PM

Mick & Kat,

   I think an annual or semi-annual drive is a great idea, and Kat, that would be a good easy way for many of us to make a contribution. But I would keep it strictly a fund drive and keep it simple. That way the transparency is easy to maintain, and administering it also remains a pretty simple task. I think getting into 'privileges' adds an unneccessary layer of complexity.

Simple is Good, IMO :>)

Janie

Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 12 May 06 - 10:24 PM

So, any one who offers a suggestion that challenges YOUR view should pack it in?!?!

So much for discourse eh... or did you intend for this thread to be only for the people who wanna fill your beer fridge and bob their faces in your lap Max?!?!?

"a endless barrage of arguments will destroy their point"
If it's that easily destroyed, it couldn't have been much of a point then could it?

" are you really that interested in this topic"
Somewhat, and I'm also afforded the leisure to pursue that interest.... Why? Does that freedom make you jealous or something? It shouldn't.... I honestly want to see Mudcat do the best it can....

Don't you, Max?

Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 12 May 06 - 10:14 PM

""Libel is a crime because words can, and often do, cause real damage to peoples' lives: their reputations, thence their abilities to make a living, etc."

Sure... in SOME contexts.... The forum here at Mudcat is NOT one of those situations.... "

The Law IN THE REAL WORLD (as keep saying) differs from your opinion mate!

Robin

Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: Bill D
Date: 12 May 06 - 10:06 PM

yes, Little Hawk, but a browser can have a setting that says "reject all cookies" or "throw away cookies when closing" or "do not accept cookies from site 'X'"....and ALL these can be enabled accidently, and can be hard to fix....especially in IE. (In Opera, all I do is hit F-12, and click to toggle back & forth)

Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: BuckMulligan
Date: 12 May 06 - 10:04 PM

that's the way it works for me, and I can have concurrent cookies on a number of machines.

Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: Little Hawk
Date: 12 May 06 - 09:47 PM

I don't understand how someone can lose their cookie. Don't you just log in with your membername and password, and then you've got it back again?

Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: katlaughing
Date: 12 May 06 - 09:42 PM

Artdarlin'...you know I don't mean you!! Somehow we WILL get your cookie back!

luvyakat

Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: Maryrrf
Date: 12 May 06 - 08:55 PM

I like the idea of an annual or semi annual fundraising drive. I have contributed small amounts irregularly and certainly not often enough, but people forget if they are not reminded. I think the idea of setting a goal amount (and it should be an ample amount, there's no reason why Max should have to reach into his own pocket or worry about where the money is coming from in order to pay the electricity) and then donating, auctioning, or doing whatever creative thing we can think of to reach that goal amount, is the way to go. Personally I would have no objection to a subscription. I belong to another forum for which I pay $15.00 per year and it is well worth it. Mudcat is worth it too. That would really be the fairest way to do it, but I don't think Max is in favor of it so the fundraising drive will work.

For the record I feel that posters (members or guests) who are disruptive, hateful, vulgar, or who are obviously trolling and/or flaming (I won't mention any names) should simply be banned - their IP address blocked or their threads deleted. I belong to other forums who really are quite permissive but there is a line that posters just aren't allowed to cross - and those forums run much more smoothly and are still interesting and stimulating.   Lately there has been so much senseless nastiness on Mudcat that it just hasn't been enjoyable.

I like the international mix on Mudcat, by the way. And I don't mind people posting about their events. It lets me know what's going on in the folk music world and has prompted me to pull up websites and investigate performers I might not have heard of otherwise. So in that sense it has broadened my musical listening horizons.

I'm glad that you posted, Max. Thank you (and your helpers) for all that you do. Mudcat has brought so much knowledge and enjoyment to me and to many others. I'm thinking now of the Mudcatters I have met up with at the Getaway and at Loughstock. That would never have happened without Mudcat so let's keep it going strong.

Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: Charley Noble
Date: 12 May 06 - 08:35 PM

39 posts from Clinton were more than enough! LOL

Now what number is Shambles up to?

I've done my major donation back in January. I'm virtuous.

I love what Big Mick first posted and, yes, I've plowed through the rest of the posts.

Thanks, Max for posting the financial stuff. People do get curious.

Please consider incorporating a set of counters on this website. I haven't got a clue what scale of use there is, or how many songs have been posted and I think oldpoetry.com does that kind of counting quite well.

I also wonder how many new songs have been created on this website? Some of them might even be keepers.

Certainly I've been able to link up with folks, via Mudcat, from all over the world who share some of my archane interests. That's a good thing for me since I seem to need a lot of support to do anything creative. I just can't get that level of support from the good folks in my home town.

Oh, and the next shanty sing at the Press Room in Portsmouth, NH, will be Saturday, May 20th. Be there or not!

Keep up the good work, Max!

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: GUEST,Art Thieme again...
Date: 12 May 06 - 08:33 PM

Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: The Shambles
Date: 12 May 06 - 08:11 PM

Rough idea, but what do you think?

Mick - As you asked - For what you have in mind - you do not need the internet or to raise funds for anything.

Why not just use the phone to speak to those you wish to and then you don't have to bother about anyone you do not wish to speak to. You won't then feel the need to abuse them, bully them and call them names? Or at least you will have no excuse to.

Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 12 May 06 - 08:09 PM

Shambles: I just don't care anymore. You press your point, time after time, until you press too far and then complain about the check. You do this purposefully to prove a point, but in the end, you are a distraction from the real point of this site. You too, should bid farewell.

Max's request seems a fairly straightforward to me. A pity it got to this stage, since Roger has a lot to contribute if he cared to. But it has. Maybe come back after Doctor Who style regeneration?

Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: kendall
Date: 12 May 06 - 08:06 PM

I never read Shambles either. Boring and tedious containing nothing new. Take the hint, man!

Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: Joe Offer
Date: 12 May 06 - 08:05 PM

I think it may take a house call to get Art's cookie reset. I've been meaning to visit my sister in Wisconsin and hit Art in Illinois on the same trip, but it hasn't happened yet.
Any tech genies live in Art's area?
-joe-

Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: Little Hawk
Date: 12 May 06 - 08:04 PM

What sort of privileges did you have in mind, Mick? (I'm not sure, for instance, that I can arrange private audiences for key contributors with the Shatman...you know who I mean...but...maybe...)

;-)

Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: skarpi
Date: 12 May 06 - 08:01 PM

Well the Master has spoken ,

Jesus-Maria

Max I think I can send about $100 in the month of June
and again in Agust .
I have the address but I coult also do through a bank but then
again I need more info.

When I first came here I med a lot of good people witch I never
knew before, many of this people are my friends for life today
and the trip to the Getaway was unforgetable there I med a good souls
a lot of good people , trip to Portaferry N-Ireland there I heard
a English folk music for the first time , went to a session in an Irish pup where
the Irish was playing , this I will never forget and I will be
back to those places also All becouse of like Mick said the Mudcattown.
Here I have learned a lot about music , poems , lyrics, bands
and many other things we even support each other when we are feeling
low or something is not right we also make jokes and have fun but we don´t hurt each other , but it seems that in all good towns
there are always someone that will draw a dark cloud to block
the sunshine, and words can hurt alot and I have seen good people
leave Mudcat becouse of ( Words )that someone has said and that is
sad to see grown up people behave like they have been doing
latly. some said " this is like a cancer that we have to remove "
so its time that we do that and take the clouds from the sunshine
and let it shine again . Lets look to the future and move on ......

SO ..... " ON THE ROAD AGAIN "

I would like to say more but this is enough for now.....
oh one more thing I have send an E-mail to the Camsco music
and I have not seen any responds ??????and there is a long time
since .......

All the best from a man in North Atlandic
Skarpi Iceland.

Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: Big Mick
Date: 12 May 06 - 07:58 PM

LH, just sitting here thinking on the ideas above, maybe we could incorporate certain "privileges" into the scheme. Not elitist stuff, but access to certain areas or abilities? I am free thinking here so don't hold me to it, but I am encouraging everyone to throw in some ideas, be they positive or critical. Let's work this through.

Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: CarolC
Date: 12 May 06 - 07:56 PM

It sounds like a good idea, Mick.

Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: Little Hawk
Date: 12 May 06 - 07:54 PM

Mick, I think that is a good idea. It could be done 2 or 3 times a year on a regular schedule.

Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: gnu
Date: 12 May 06 - 07:53 PM

Shambles... I did not read your post. I never read your posts. Gave up LONG ago. I have many Mudcat friends who NEVER read your posts. Take a hint.

Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: The Shambles
Date: 12 May 06 - 07:49 PM

Dear Max

Is there any reason you still can't answer the following questions? For trying to establish the answers to this and hence the future shape of our forum is the object of my recent attempts, which have incurred your displeasure and caused you to say that I (and others) should leave.

Now that you are making public statements in this thread perhaps you could inform me and our forum of the answers? Or explain why you do not provide the answers? Have they got you gagged and bound up in cellar again?

Can you confirm if the Chief of the Mudcat Editing Team's latest proposal to restrict the BS posting to members only and to 'review' all the Guest posting on the Music section - is going to be finally accepted by you or not.

And if this not going to happen (in the near future) - is our forum going to continue to be divided by and subject to the current imposed and personally motivated censorship actions that the Chief of the Mudcat Editing Team has recently and publicy admitted have failed to impose the required 'peace'?      

Or is there now going to be a change to this approach? An end to anonymous editing button perhaps?

Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: katlaughing
Date: 12 May 06 - 07:48 PM

I like it, Mick and I'll help do it, if you need me to!

Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: Big Mick
Date: 12 May 06 - 07:46 PM

We could incorporate kat's idea right in there. It is a great idea.

Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: Big Mick
Date: 12 May 06 - 07:45 PM

I wonder if we could do semi annual fundraising drives such as they do on NPR (National Public Radio), with the notable difference that it would be conducted by members. I would volunteer to coordinate it. At predetermined times each year, I would start a thread asking for donations, instead of Max having to do it. I would announce a goal, give daily updates, terminate the thread when we pass the goal. That way Max could set a budget, we get it done and go on with Mudcatting. I could send a PM to members letting them know the pertinent details such as goal, status of the funds, etc. All out in the open, we count on it happening, and away we go. Rough idea, but what do you think?

Mick

Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: katlaughing
Date: 12 May 06 - 07:43 PM

I know I said it a loooong time ago and I did have it set up with my account for awhile until our finances took a turn; time to start it, again:

Most banks with online access will allow one with an account to set up automatic payments to whomever they please. For that matter you can do it without online access, too. I had Mudcat and NPR both set up to receive a small amount each month. It was an easy way for me to "pledge" to help things out. IF, and I know it's a BIG IF, regular users did that, say five or ten bucks a month, I am sure it would more than meet the expenses. Remember that old thing in the bible about a widow's mite? Well, "widow's mites" from each of us add up, but we have to be consistent AND committed. Think about it, okay?

Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: Little Hawk
Date: 12 May 06 - 07:20 PM

I was thinking $10 or $20 a year. Who cannot afford that? Would it be enough to fund the place? I figure it would.

gnu - That place was called "Don's Coffeehouse". At its peak it was absolutely sublime. It was the best time I've ever had as a musician. It was open 3 nights a week, and I rarely missed a night for awhile there. I was the third person to play there 100 times, so I was one of the regulars, all right. Like all things, though, it changed and by about the 4 or 5 year mark it began to subtley lose the magic, somehow. Still it carried on for at least another 5 years after that.

Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: BuckMulligan
Date: 12 May 06 - 07:02 PM

What about "dues" that could be defrayed either by cash or by "contributions" according to a valuation scheme predetermined (and obviously, ultimately subjective, but it's a private forum and what's wrong with that?) Ten bucks a year, but uploading a song lyric that ain't a repeat is worth a buck? Answering a request for info with something other than a "go lookitupdumbass" - another buck. Posting x number of bytes without doing either of those - add a buck. I know it sounds complex, but this is software folks, and "it can do whatever we know how to tell it what to do." (Ada Leigh) And someone only has to tell it once, unlike those of us who post and need to be reminded (and reminded and reminded, etc.)

Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: gnu
Date: 12 May 06 - 07:00 PM

Oh my, LH.... you left the door open on that one. Hehehehe. But, as I am a gentleman... I shall say it is good thing you were a regular and kept the business going as long as you could.

Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: Little Hawk
Date: 12 May 06 - 06:54 PM

Ummm...I mean to say it closed down, not "failed". It succeeded just fine as long as it was still running, as far as most of us were concerned, anyway, and I remember it fondly. I played there over 400 times.

Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: Little Hawk
Date: 12 May 06 - 06:51 PM

Well, I mainly mentioned the idea because of a local open stage folk club that I attended for about 10 years...which never had a cover charge. It worked strictly on donations. The vast majority of people who went there would have been perfectly happy to pay a $2 or $3 cover charge...but the man running it never wanted to do that. He went only with donations, and it was costing him a lot. Accordingly, he made a point of reminding the audience and players all the time that he needed donations. It got like the public TV channel from the USA...these continual efforts to get people to make donations. This, frankly, became a lot more of a bother to people than just automatically plunking down their $2 or $3 bucks upon walking in would have been. It got annoying.

That club eventually failed, mostly for financial reasons, partly because it just burnt itself out after awhile and wasn't as much fun anymore.

I'm not sure if the same logic applies to an Internet Site. I can't really say, because my experience of Internet sites like Mudcat Cafe is extremely limited. Matter of fact, it's limited to this one, period.

If someone in Orillia had not told me about this site a few years back, I would have spent those thousands of hours doing something else instead of logging on here...and at this point I can only wonder what it might have been? ;-) I'll never know.

Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 12 May 06 - 06:50 PM

Even a thread like this gets diverted into macho posturing by Clinton and Shambles popping up again every now and again banging his head away on a wall he's hunted around to find...

Pity about all the foolishness that crops up from time to time - and I've done my share of contributing to that. But the Mudcat is a miraculous affair. Not a day passes but I'm grateful for it, to Max and whose company I've enjoyed. Including the ones I've had serious disagreements with. Unlike some people I like discussions that can be called arguments. It's when they turn into quarrels I don't like it. And I especially hate it when that kind of thing drives away people whose company I've come to enjoy.

Whenever things get too heated I wish we could remind ourselves that we've got in common a shared interest (even a shared passion) for the music and the songs that brought us here in the first place. I wrote a song about the Mudcat when I first came upon it, way back in the 20th Century, and it still sums up what it seems to me it's about. Here it is again. (The words have changed a little bit, the way songs do, so that's an excuse to post it once more) :

The Blue Clicky Thing

I spied it one day, I was trawling the net,
a fish like a cat, that's the strangest one yet.
When I reached out to touch it, things started to spin -
I was off for a ride down that Blue Clicky Thing.
The Blue Clicky Thing, the Blue Clicky Thing,
it can take you away like a magical ring.
It can make you as free as a bird on the wing,
the Mudcat Cafe and the Blue Clicky Thing.

I was off on a ride and admiring the view,
there were places I got to that I never knew,
there were stories to share, there were songs you could sing,
there were all kinds of folk down that Blue Clicky Thing.
The Blue Clicky Thing, the Blue Clicky Thing,
it can take you away like a magical ring,
It can make you as free as a bird on the wing,
the Mudcat Cafe and the Blue Clicky Thing

There were names you could mutter and photos to see,
of neighbours next door, 'cross the wide rolling sea,
and a tavern where you could drop in for a drink,
and gossip with friends, down that Blue Clicky Thing.
The Blue Clicky Thing, the Blue Clicky Thing,
it can take you away like a magical ring,
It can make you as free as a bird on the wing,
The Mudcat Cafe and the Blue Clicky Thing.

Well I try to explain, and you might understand,
it's a fine place to go to when you're feeling grand -
but when your heart's heavy, and you're shackled and pinned,
you can reach out and find help down that Blue Clicky Thing
The Blue Clicky Thing, the Blue Clicky Thing,
it can take you away like a magical ring,
Don't it hold us together like brown paper and string?
The Mudcat Cafe and the Blue Clicky Thing.
...........................

So what is a straightforward way for people like me in England to pay up and be counted? (I mean those of us who don't feel happy using paypal.com)

Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: Bill D
Date: 12 May 06 - 06:38 PM

Max said a long time ago that a 'fee' would be against what he wanted.
Rather than mess with that, lets see what this new clearer view of the finances can accomplish....it sounds good already.

Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: gnu
Date: 12 May 06 - 06:31 PM

An annual fee? Like Max needs any more bullshit from anyone. No way. It is to laugh... or cry.

Ya cheap bunch a bastards need only pony up a few bucks each. I still am reeling over the fact that donations and the auction only bring in $600 a year. Seriously REELING. SERIOUSLY. Almost to the point that I am pissed off.... turning Wildebeetse... going gnuts! I really am having a hard time believing you cheap bastards can't spare a buck or two.

Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: Max
Date: 12 May 06 - 06:30 PM

Clinton, maybe you should pack it in and move on too. Do you do this to every thread? God I'm sick of this. I can't even stand to read this thread now. Who would possibly post to this forum knowing that a endless barrage of arguments will destroy their point and force them to spend all day defending it, and every subsequent attempt at meaning. You've posted 39 times in this thread, are you really that interested in this topic or are you bored, out of work or is convoluting threads a hobby of yours?

Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: Little Hawk
Date: 12 May 06 - 06:08 PM

True, Clinton, but for a lot of people this place is like their daily fix...and people are willing to pay for their habits, aren't they? ;-)

I think it would all depend on how much the yearly fee was, that's all.

I agree that the crashes and other glitches in the site have not exactly been a confidence builder.

Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 12 May 06 - 05:48 PM

Hi Max, it's great to hear from you, especially when you are ironing out a few of the bumps in the Mudcat highway.

I'm one of those Limeys referred to earlier, and I'm happy to say that I've learned more about the US side of music here than I could ever have found researching libraries.

I really don't think there's too much wrong with this place, and what there is is worth putting up with for the benefits we receive.

The way the forum is managed is one of the things that attracted me to it in the first place, and I thank you, Joe, Jeff, and all the clones (known or unknown) for getting the balance right.

Funds are very tight as I exist on a rather small pension, but I'm looking for something that might go into the auction.

Someone else said it above: "Keep on keeping on"! The internet would be a duller place without Mudcat.

Don T.

Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 12 May 06 - 05:46 PM

"why not charge a nominal yearly fee for membership?"

If you're going to expect people to pay, you'd better provide something they're willing to pay for.... Reliable servers, chat rooms that don't crash or boot people for no reason, in adition to possible member perks mentioned above....

To quote "Hawkwood" from the Verhoven film, Flesh & Blood...
"It's not a bad idea in theory."

Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: The Shambles
Date: 12 May 06 - 05:37 PM

I've got to tell you, I'm sick and tired of some of the crap that I've seen lately.
Max

Unlike others here I find it difficult to interpret any statement that starts off like as a vote of confidence in anything. But perhaps Max you could answer the following?   

Can you confirm if the Chief of the Mudcat Editing Team's latest proposal to restrict the BS posting to members only and to 'review' all the Guest posting on the Music section - is going to be finally accepted by you or not.

And if this not going to happen (in the near future) - is our forum going to continue to be divided by and subject to the current imposed and personally motivated censorship actions that the Chief of the Mudcat Editing Team has recently and publicy admitted have failed to impose the required 'peace'?      

Or is there now going to be a change to this approach? An end to anonymous editing button perhaps?

Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: Little Hawk
Date: 12 May 06 - 05:28 PM

Hmmm. Saw this thread...and then had to do a whole LOT of reading to get to the end of it.

Well, well. It is very good to see you making an appearance here, Max, because many had been wondering when you would. I certainly had been.

An idea: why not charge a nominal yearly fee for membership? This place has a very large number of members, does it not? You could figure out the yearly cost of running it, divide that by the average number of members, and come up with a reasonable estimate for what that fee could be. I don't imagine it would be all that large, and I don't see why most people wouldn't be willing to pay it.

I don't know if that would be workable, but it might.

Anyway, the place had been feeling more and more like a ship with no rudder lurching around in a storm and a lot of people getting seasick, and the crew fighting amongst themselves, and no sign of the captain anywhere...so I'm glad you chose to launch this thread.

And with that...I have to pause and take a breather, maybe get back to it tomorrow...because I frankly don't have anything else to say about it just at the moment. I've been feeling a bit shellshocked lately, for a number of reasons that have little to do with this forum. I come here mostly just to ease tension, but often as not end up acquiring more tension than I was suffering before I logged on. Sort of a catch-22.

No, wait.... One more thing I will say. Words can and do hurt many people, and probably most people very badly at one time or another. Words can hurt people for life. That doesn't mean those people couldn't stand to learn more about building up their self-esteem and becoming less vulnerable to words....but IF a person is intelligent enough to realize how their words can hurt people, then why would they choose to go ahead and be verbally savage to people anyway, specially to those who are clearly vulnerable in some way? Isn't that some kind of moral blindness? I don't get how a person can justify it to himself, just because other people aren't apparently as tough as he is.

One has some moral responsibility to imagine what it's like to be in the other person's shoes, as someone said up there. At least I would think so. This is what we try to teach our children, after all. We try to teach them not to wantonly hurt people.

Well...I know I can't do anything about it though...others will do whatever they wish, and I can't change that. I do not doubt that a large number of people have literally become afraid to post here, afraid to reveal anything further about themselves, because they expect to be attacked by someone for it. That's not such a good situation.

A home or a club should not be a place where people are afraid to enter for fear of being abused by someone.

Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 12 May 06 - 05:06 PM

'This is the best of the Internet."
Not to try to dimish your experience, but EVERY (O.k.. most...) message board says the exact same thing....

Is it possible that they're all right? (sure it is....)

" Sorry, but I can't buy that."
Nor I....

Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: Big Mick
Date: 12 May 06 - 05:04 PM

Hey Peter, it might help if you left it in the context of the whole para. But I don't want to get any further into a discussion that isn't what the thread is about. Whatcha think about Max's posts? Ideas for supporting the place? Gettin' it back to something that we all found valuable and rewarding? We can start another thread or use one of the old ones to discuss the other stuff.

Mick

Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: bbc
Date: 12 May 06 - 05:03 PM

My two cents--

I've been a member for sometime. Many of you know I haven't liked the way Mudcat has been trending in recent years. I chose to withdraw my member information & am more selective in which threads & whose posts I read. Even so, I scan the threads on a daily basis & contribute when I have something positive to add. I have never posted except under my own name. I have formed many friendships, both virtual & in person, through this site. I have learned of new recordings & expanded my knowledge of performers. I support Mudcat members by participating in their sessions at festivals & by buying their music. As others have said, this site has changed & enriched my life in a way nothing else has. Even now, Mudcat magic is happening in my area. Animaterra referred British Mudcatter bradfordian to me. Last night, we joined Sandy & Caroline Paton for dinner. Today, he is visiting Guy Wolff. Without his Mudcat "passport" this cultural exchange would not have been possible. This is the best of the Internet. Those of you who choose to post frivolously & contentiously are missing it. Thanks, Max, for our virtual home!

best,

bbc

Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 12 May 06 - 05:00 PM

Oh that... that was hours ago.... *pffft*   the past is the past man!

LOL

Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: Midchuck
Date: 12 May 06 - 05:00 PM

A concept that took me a great deal of time to get I learned at a forum on racism. In an oversimplified form it basically says that it doesn't matter what the intent was, if the recipient takes it as racism, then it is wrong.

Sorry, but I can't buy that. It puts you at the mercy of another person's paranoia.

Not to mention those who accuse anyone who won't give them whatever they want of racism, sexism, homophobia, whatever.

Peter

Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: Wesley S
Date: 12 May 06 - 04:46 PM

Clinton - If you'll slow down and scan down the page you'll not only see my previous post but you'll also see your reply to my post. Maybe you should take a breather. Just some advice - take it or leave it - eh ?

Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 12 May 06 - 04:40 PM

"Nah, Clinton--an indication of humor to make it clear I was not trying to offend."
Fair enough... my mistake... it happens all too easily as said above....

" Why don't you start a thread on the topic."
I'm not the one with the issue.... I'm just the one who's curious why those who do, do.... I've asked.... They can start the thread to respond to me, or PM me.... or post here....

Whatever....

I'm easy (and for the right people, I'm pretty cheap too!) Heh

Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 12 May 06 - 04:34 PM

I was unaware you were even taking part in this discussion Wesley....

(as that was your first post here, it's safe to say you weren't)

Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: Janie
Date: 12 May 06 - 04:33 PM

Nah, Clinton--an indication of humor to make it clear I was not trying to offend.

Why don't you start a thread on the topic. In the meantime, let's follow Mick's advice and help this thread get back to Max's concerns.

Folks--I still have some of those lovely cards for the mini-fundraiser for the 'Cat. I think the info. in the thread "BS: I Got Mine"

Janie

Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: Wesley S
Date: 12 May 06 - 04:28 PM

Clinton - drop it. If you have anything more to say on this topic please send me a PM. I ASSURE you that I will read it - memorize it and take it to heart. Or I might not even open it at all. But lets move on. There are too many good things to talk about on this thread than to get stuck on this. Thanks.

Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 12 May 06 - 04:25 PM

"It is about what we need to do to right our ship"

Hold Your Ground by James Keelaghan

Somewhere in side my soul there is an echo of my youth
Some pithy little saying that contained a grain of truth
If patience is a virtue persistence is it's mark
It's better to light a candle that stand and curse the dark
But if we stand together we might turn this world around
Hold your ground

In the corridors of power where our voice is seldom heard
The status quo is what they want, they can get it with a word
For us it takes a thousand voices A million angry shouts
To notify the ship of state to bring it's course about
But if we pull together we might turn this ship around
Hold your ground

Ooooh, this world is changing
Spinning out through space and time
Ooooh, it's rearranging
All the things we though were yours and mine
You've got to hold your ground
Hold your ground X3

Sometimes it seems the motion is strictly retrograde
There are so many reverses of advances that you've made
the things you though were changing
Have shuddered to a halt
The only view is forward when your backs against the wall
But if we stand together We might turn this world around
Hold your ground

It's isn't for the faint of heart to bet when odds are long
And neither is it easy to be right in the face of wrong
You must proceed from strength to strength
Although the road is rough
And sometimes human courage just isn't quite enough
But if we stand together we might turn this world around
Hold your ground X3

Ooooooooo This world is changing