BS: Sailors kidnapped by Revolutionary Guard

Subject: RE: BS: Sailors kidnapped by Revolutionary Guard
From: heric
Date: 30 Mar 07 - 12:16 AM

Yes this was a pretty good process we had here.

Subject: RE: BS: Sailors kidnapped by Revolutionary Guard
From: Barry Finn
Date: 30 Mar 07 - 12:08 AM

It now seems that some UN member states have some doubts as to weither or not the British were actually acting under UN Mandates, saying that there may not exist any such Mandates. While Russia & South Africa still refuse, so far to put blame on Iran with Russia questioning the British claims to haveing been in Iraqi Waters.

To me it seems that no one is convinced of anything & many still have unanswered questions which prevented the UN's coming down hard on Iran like the UK/US had hoped for. I would think that these member nations know a hell of a lot more than we do & it also seems that what they do know isn't a whole hell of a lot to go on. And all along we had it all figured out!

Barry

Subject: RE: BS: Sailors kidnapped by Revolutionary Guard
From: dianavan
Date: 29 Mar 07 - 11:26 PM

bb - Why do you keep saying, "Local fisherman states the Brits were in Iraqi waters." when I have already linked a source (Globe and Mail) that says otherwise?

Keith - Shaming me is a waste of breath. Guilt isn't something that works well on me. I am not defending evil. Quite the contrary. I'm trying to get to the truth by questioning all accounts of this incident. I know that there are two sides to every story.

I don't think you can draw any firm conclusions when the media accounts are contradictory and there is so much that has been omitted, filtered and revised. I do not think you or anyone else can make any judgement based on a video clip that was a few seconds long. It was blurry, quick and edited. Besides that, it is quite possible that it was digitally enhanced.

There is plenty of propaganda coming from both sides and anyone who chooses to escalate this incident into a war is evil and that includes Britain. I am a long way from feeling shame or defending evil. In fact, I am proud of my ability to stand back and look at the situation objectively which is more that you or bb can do.

You have had your nose rubbed in your own shit by a few Iranians who were able to outwit the British Navy. Now you are just trying to save face by pointing your finger at the evil doers and shaming others. Its a pretty thin excuse for poking at a hornets nest and then crying when you get stung.

I think its pretty obvious that the U.S./Britain have been itching for a battle with Iran and have created an incident by overstepping their boundaries in an area that has been disputed for decades. Nothing else really makes sense.

Why would Iran want to battle with the U.S. when it is the U.S. that has the nuclear bomb? Thats a bit like David and Goliath wouldn't you say?

Subject: RE: BS: Sailors kidnapped by Revolutionary Guard
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 29 Mar 07 - 08:19 PM

And, of course, we really have no idea what's going on there. Maybe the captives are being treated terribly; maybe they're being treated well ... anything any of us say beyond that is just idle speculation, at best. We'll find out eventually, though ... patience, people!

Subject: RE: BS: Sailors kidnapped by Revolutionary Guard
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 29 Mar 07 - 08:02 PM

I would think it highly likely that members of the UK armed forces are advised that, when taken captive, making statements of that kind is a perfectly acceptable, and indeed advisable, behaviour. It seems pretty normal practice in these kind of situations,anyway. Sometimes prisoners go in for coded ways of indicating they are putting on an act.

Confessions of this sort by captives are pretty evidently meaningless - as meaningless as guilty pleas by prisoners making plea bargains, like that Australian kid the other day who'd been banged up in Guantanamo Bay for years.

Subject: RE: BS: Sailors kidnapped by Revolutionary Guard
From: folk1e
Date: 29 Mar 07 - 07:51 PM

Appologies ..... I did mean WEST of the border line(s)!

Subject: RE: BS: Sailors kidnapped by Revolutionary Guard
From: Peace
Date: 29 Mar 07 - 06:45 PM

I don't know how many of you recall the fellow from the Vietnam War (I think) who was flashing his middle finger while he was filmed. His hands were in front of him on the table, and he was holding them in such a way as to have his middle finger sticking out all by itself. He then went on to talk about how his country (USA) was involved in an illegal war, and that the USA was bad, and that he as a soldier was wrong for being there, etc. A follow-up story claimed he got a real shit-kicking and lots of solitary confinement and a drop in his daily caloric intake for that when the NVA found out what the middle finger meant.

Subject: RE: BS: Sailors kidnapped by Revolutionary Guard
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 29 Mar 07 - 06:36 PM

Yes Peace
The british marines taken by Iran about 3 years ago were threatened with death, stood in open graves and had weapons fired over them.
Over and over.

Subject: RE: BS: Sailors kidnapped by Revolutionary Guard
From: bobad
Date: 29 Mar 07 - 06:33 PM

As well as a "blessed right hand."

Subject: RE: BS: Sailors kidnapped by Revolutionary Guard
From: Peace
Date: 29 Mar 07 - 05:56 PM

A gun to one's head can inspire lots of letters.

Subject: RE: BS: Sailors kidnapped by Revolutionary Guard
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 29 Mar 07 - 05:51 PM

How many Iranians are there in England, sort of now-ish?

Subject: RE: BS: Sailors kidnapped by Revolutionary Guard
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 29 Mar 07 - 05:32 PM

mc grath
Did you see the interview with the sailor girl before she was taken?
Did she strike you as being of strong political opinions and knowledge?
Did she come across as the kind of person who would address a letter to Britains politcal representatives (not MPs as you and I might call them)?
What do you suppose inspired her to write those alien sentiments?
For shame.
You are defending evil.

Subject: RE: BS: Sailors kidnapped by Revolutionary Guard
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 29 Mar 07 - 05:01 PM

the treatment of the hostages despicable.

That's speculative. It might turn out to be accurate speculation, but at this point there seems to be no evidence indicating that they are being treated badly.
.........
I was a bit puzzled by folk1e: "The vice admiral seems to have the same opinion as me ...... the marines were on "our side of the border" even allowing for a safety element for the disputed boundary!" (28 Mar 07 - 09:11 PM), when previously he'd quoted him as saying "There are two lines, the border between Iraq and Iran, and an operational border line set up on the Iraq side of the international border to prevent "operational misjudgements". The Marines were taken from the east of both borderlines...." I imagine that folk1e must have typed "east" when he meant "west" - makes quite a difference.

Subject: RE: BS: Sailors kidnapped by Revolutionary Guard
From: Peace
Date: 29 Mar 07 - 04:53 PM

Where's Ollie North when ya really need him?

Subject: RE: BS: Sailors kidnapped by Revolutionary Guard
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 29 Mar 07 - 04:26 PM

Who? The Brits or the Iranians?

Subject: RE: BS: Sailors kidnapped by Revolutionary Guard
From: Stringsinger
Date: 29 Mar 07 - 04:01 PM

What on earth were they doing there?

Frank

Subject: RE: BS: Sailors kidnapped by Revolutionary Guard
From: beardedbruce
Date: 29 Mar 07 - 03:51 PM

"The first British tactic had been to offer Iran an easy way out by giving it the GPS reading and suggesting that it might have made a mistake.



Iran at first offered a different co-ordinate, according to British officials, and then, when it was pointed out that this was in Iraqi waters, another reading was given, this time on the Iranian side.


UK VERSION OF EVENTS

1 Crew boards merchant ship 1.7NM inside Iraqi waters
2 HMS Cornwall was south-east of this, and inside Iraqi waters
3 Iran tells UK that merchant ship was at a different point, still within Iraqi waters
4 After UK points this out, Iran provides corrected position, now within Iranian waters
However the initial quiet effort led nowhere, so a decision to escalate the issue was taken.

When discretion failed, public diplomacy was launched with a world-wide lobbying effort, based on the GPS readings.


GPS reading

The GPS read-out was made where an Indian merchant ship was boarded by the British inspection party on Friday.

At a briefing for reporters at the Ministry of Defence in London, a quietly-spoken but precise Vice Admiral Charles Style, Deputy Chief of the Defence Staff, said the incident took place 1.7 nautical miles (3.14 kilometres) inside Iraqi waters. The territorial waters, he indicated, were fixed by a notional line extending from the centre of the Shatt al-Arab waterway, which is the border between the two countries. This line was in accordance with international law and custom, he said.

The British coordinates were obtained from the captured boats by a data link to HMS Cornwall. He gave them as 29 50.36 North and 048 43.08 East. (Note: the reading on the photo at the top, taken from a helicopter over the ship still at anchor two days afterwards, is slightly different as the ship's captain said the anchor had dragged since the incident).

The coordinates given by Iran to the British were not detailed.

The admiral insisted that the British were in the right, as they were acting under Security Council resolution 1723 (which authorises the multinational force in Iraq) and with the approval of the Iraqi government in protecting its oil facilities, coast and shipping. There was no doubt where the dividing line was, he said, despite historic disputes between Iran and Iraq over these waters. "

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6502947.stm


btw, from the same site:

"The British Foreign Secretary Mrs Beckett said that Iran had assured her there was no linkage to other events, including presumably the detention of five Iranian officials by American forces in Iraq not long ago. "

And we know the Iranians would not lie to us...

Subject: RE: BS: Sailors kidnapped by Revolutionary Guard
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 29 Mar 07 - 03:50 PM

Sorry. Getting angry. Forgot link.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6501555.stm

Subject: RE: BS: Sailors kidnapped by Revolutionary Guard
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 29 Mar 07 - 03:49 PM

Dianavan, this page from the video is zoomed out to show the anchored ship under the GPS.
Still doubt where it was ?
Even if they had been in Iranian waters, which you alone in the world believe, the kidnapping was illegal, and the treatment of the hostages despicable.

Subject: RE: BS: Sailors kidnapped by Revolutionary Guard
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 29 Mar 07 - 03:45 PM

Dianavan, this page has a still from the video of the hand held GPS.
You can see the co ordinates.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6502947.stm

Subject: RE: BS: Sailors kidnapped by Revolutionary Guard
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 29 Mar 07 - 03:41 PM

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6508039.stm

Dainavan, click the button that says "Iranian TV footage"

Subject: RE: BS: Sailors kidnapped by Revolutionary Guard
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 29 Mar 07 - 03:39 PM

Dianavan,
Look at the link I gave earlier.
As I said it gives a link to IRANIAN TV footage. There is an image of the arrest close under the anchored merchant ship.
That is why the position of the anchored ship is relevant. Her master says it was anchored well inside IRAQI water.
I also gave a link to a photo of a GPS held over that ship showing that it had moved a few hundred yards as the anchor dragged but was still over a mile inside.
That poor young sailor has now had to write another letter saying how lovely her jailers are, and how she wants British troops to leave Iraq.
You are taking the wrong side here Dianavan.
For shame.

Subject: RE: BS: Sailors kidnapped by Revolutionary Guard
From: beardedbruce
Date: 29 Mar 07 - 02:59 PM

Local fisherman states the Brits were in Iraqi waters.

The ship being searched was anchored in Iraqi waters.

The location given by the IRANIANS was in Iraqi waters.

The Brits claim they were in Iraqi waters.

The Iraqi official, who did not know the Brits were in the area, wondered if they were in Iraqi or Iranian waters.

Ipso facto, the Brits MUST have been in Iranian waters, according to Dianavan

Subject: RE: BS: Sailors kidnapped by Revolutionary Guard
From: Rasener
Date: 29 Mar 07 - 02:55 PM

Well all I know is if Iran doesn't back down, they run the risk of getting bombed like Iraq. Then we have more instability.

Is that what everybody wants.

Subject: RE: BS: Sailors kidnapped by Revolutionary Guard
From: beardedbruce
Date: 29 Mar 07 - 02:55 PM

According to the BBC...
His spokesman said he was referring to a "different way" of handling talks, which could involve making public reasons why the UK was certain the group was in Iraqi waters.

It is understood this could include producing evidence such as boat co-ordinates and details of the searched vessel apparently still anchored in Iraqi waters.

The spokesman told reporters: "We are utterly confident that we were in Iraqi waters, and not just marginally in Iraqi waters but in Iraqi waters. It's a case of tactics and if and when we have to prove that."

However, one high-ranking Iraqi official has expressed surprise that British forces were operating in the area.

Brigadier-General Hakim Jassim, commander of Iraq's territorial waters, said: "Usually there is no presence of British forces in that area, so we were surprised and we wondered whether the British forces were inside Iraqi waters or inside Iranian regional waters."

NOTE that it does NOT say they WERE in Iranian waters, just that the Iraqi official did not know.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/6500583.stm?lsf

Subject: RE: BS: Sailors kidnapped by Revolutionary Guard
From: Charley Noble
Date: 29 Mar 07 - 02:53 PM

There are times when I'd be pleased if Mudcat would take over negotiating disputes between different countries. This is not one of those times.

"We" don't know where the hell the British sailors were when the Iranians captured them.

"No one" really knows where the international border is in the waterway between Iraq and Iran.

And just maybe, the British have been more aggresively excercising their inspections of local cargo traffic.

And just maybe the Iranians were looking for an opportunity to capture some British military personnel to swap forits citizens that the Coalition of the Willing is unwilling to release that were resident in the so-called council office in the Kurdish region of Iraq.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Sailors kidnapped by Revolutionary Guard
From: Barry Finn
Date: 29 Mar 07 - 02:46 PM

At this point I'm not trusting anybody! Any one who's 100% sure is a fool.

Barry

Subject: RE: BS: Sailors kidnapped by Revolutionary Guard
From: dianavan
Date: 29 Mar 07 - 02:46 PM

oops - cross posted

bb - Why is it that you focus on where the ship was anchored? Seems to me the focus should be on where the gunboat was at the time it was captured.

Your evidence has been filtered by the British Govt. since the original report by the fisherman and the Iraqi military commander. Perhaps this has to do with the set of coordinates. One set for the merchant vessel, second set for the capture of the gunboats.

The perspective, at this point, depends entirely on the way its being reported by the media. Seems to me that alot of pertinent information is being ignored, changed, or omitted. Perhaps this is why the Iranians have decided to keep all of their hostages. There are two sides to every story.

Bottom line is the safety and well-being of the hostages. Britain should begin to immediately negotiate a prisoner exchange instead of spending all of their energy attempting to save face.

Subject: RE: BS: Sailors kidnapped by Revolutionary Guard
From: beardedbruce
Date: 29 Mar 07 - 02:38 PM

"An Iraqi fisherman said he saw Iranian forces detain British sailors and marines on Friday in a waterway between Iraq and Iran.

The man also said that the ship British forces were searching was anchored in Iraqi waters (Toronto Daily News)"


Now, I know we cannot trust those lying Canadians to get anything right...

Subject: RE: BS: Sailors kidnapped by Revolutionary Guard
From: dianavan
Date: 29 Mar 07 - 02:33 PM

bb - You have stated, "The Iraqi fisherman stated that the British were in Iraqi territory."

Get your facts straight.

"The Iraqi military commander of the country's territorial waters cast doubt on claims the Britons were in Iraqi waters.

We were informed by Iraqi fishermen after they had returned from sea that there were British gunboats in an area that is out of Iraqi control," Brig. Gen. Hakim Jassim told AP Television News in the southern city of Basra."

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20070324.wiran0324/BNStory/Front

Subject: RE: BS: Sailors kidnapped by Revolutionary Guard
From: beardedbruce
Date: 29 Mar 07 - 02:27 PM

"An Iraqi fisherman said he saw Iranian forces detain British sailors and marines on Friday in a waterway between Iraq and Iran.

The man also said that the ship British forces were searching was anchored in Iraqi waters (Toronto Daily News)"

"British Vice Adm. Charles Style said the global positioning system on the ship proves the vessel was "clearly" 3.1 kilometers (1.7 nautical miles) inside Iraqi waters.

Iran insists the ship was inside its territorial waters and, according to Style, provided a map with coordinates on Saturday in an attempt to prove the point.

Style said those coordinates actually "turned out to confirm they were in Iraqi waters" and Iraq has supported that position.

Upon pointing that out Sunday through diplomatic contacts, Style said Iran then "provided a second set of coordinates" on Monday that were "in Iranian waters over two nautical miles" from the position shown by the HMS Cornwall and confirmed by the merchant vessel the British personnel boarded."

Subject: RE: BS: Sailors kidnapped by Revolutionary Guard
From: beardedbruce
Date: 29 Mar 07 - 02:14 PM

I do not consider dianavan to be stupid, just unwilling to look at the facts before deciding what she wants to have happened.

Subject: RE: BS: Sailors kidnapped by Revolutionary Guard
From: Teribus
Date: 29 Mar 07 - 02:12 PM

As I said BB, dianavan in full blown, "Guilty before proven innocent and even then I won't believe you mode". How rational.

Subject: RE: BS: Sailors kidnapped by Revolutionary Guard
From: beardedbruce
Date: 29 Mar 07 - 02:12 PM

"And no, I don't think it can be called excessive force in the face of sanctions. Why is it Iran is condemned for fighting back by taking hostages? Is it O.K. to make a nation suffer economically but its not O.K. to grab 15 hostages ..."

Because Iran is under UN sanctions for IRAN's actions in violating both UNR and the NPT, which IRAN signed and agreed to. If you have a problem with the UN enforcing its resolutions, then perhaps we should get out of it and do whatever we think is appropriate.

Subject: RE: BS: Sailors kidnapped by Revolutionary Guard
From: beardedbruce
Date: 29 Mar 07 - 01:57 PM

"Point 1 - This is one side of the story and I have seen no proof that it is true or an explanation from Iran."

Fine- let me tell you ALL sides: ( not that you will listen)

The IRANIANS stated the position that they captured the British at- which was in Iraqi territory.

The British said that they were in Iraqi territory.

The ship being searched said it was anchoered in Iraqi territory.

The Iraqi fisherman stated that the British were in Iraqi territory.


"Point 2 - Please provide a source that says it is against International law to protect your own territory from foreign gunboats. "

OK, then the Brits, as empowered by the Iraqis, HAD the right to blow away the Iranian gunboats when they came into Iraqi waters????

Subject: RE: BS: Sailors kidnapped by Revolutionary Guard
From: dianavan
Date: 29 Mar 07 - 01:41 PM

Point 1 - This is one side of the story and I have seen no proof that it is true or an explanation from Iran.

Point 2 - Please provide a source that says it is against International law to protect your own territory from foreign gunboats.

Subject: RE: BS: Sailors kidnapped by Revolutionary Guard
From: beardedbruce
Date: 29 Mar 07 - 01:32 PM

Dianavan,

"its not O.K. to grab 15 hostages in a disputed territory?"

Point 1, which you keep ignoring- The IRANIANS gave the position that they captured the British at- which was clearly, ( By the standards of BOTH sides) in Iraqi territory.

Point 2, Correct, it is against international law to grab hostages in this manner, EVEN if they HAD been in Iranian waters.

You persist in making statements that are not supported by the facts of the case.

Subject: RE: BS: Sailors kidnapped by Revolutionary Guard
From: dianavan
Date: 29 Mar 07 - 01:28 PM

What is so stupid about using the location of the merchant vessel is that it is the location of the gunboats, at the time of the apprehension, that is in question. This is complicated by the fact that the gunboats seem to have lost contact with the Cornwall. I'd like to know more details about the helicopter. Did it see the Iranian boats approaching? Did they approach from Iranian water or Iraqi water? Why is it that the Iranian boats were so difficult to detect if they were in Iraqi water? Why wasn't there enought time for the Brits to flee deeper into Iraqi water?

Too many unanswered questions.

And no, I don't think it can be called excessive force in the face of sanctions. Why is it Iran is condemned for fighting back by taking hostages? Is it O.K. to make a nation suffer economically but its not O.K. to grab 15 hostages in a disputed territory? How do most people (nations) react when bullied and threatened?

Iran fought back when everyone else thought they would back down. Obviously, sanctions aren't working in this situation. Why? Because Israel wants to be the only nuclear power in the region. Is that fair? Either all countries disarm or a balance of power is required.

Subject: RE: BS: Sailors kidnapped by Revolutionary Guard
From: beardedbruce
Date: 29 Mar 07 - 11:49 AM

from above...
"The United Nations has issued a statement calling for the immediate release of the 15 British sailors and marines being held captive by Iran."

Subject: RE: BS: Sailors kidnapped by Revolutionary Guard
From: Rasener
Date: 29 Mar 07 - 11:42 AM

Mob calls for execution

http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30000-1258238,00.html

Very civilised

Subject: RE: BS: Sailors kidnapped by Revolutionary Guard
From: beardedbruce
Date: 29 Mar 07 - 11:06 AM

Iran: UK sailors entered 6 times
POSTED: 10:48 a.m. EDT, March 29, 2007

Story Highlights• Iran: British sailors crossed into Iranian waters six times
• Larijani says Britain's words, attitude causing delay in release of woman sailor
• U.N. Security Council to discuss issue Thursday
• Female sailor says she and crew "trespassed" into Iranian waters

TEHRAN, Iran (CNN) -- Iran says the 15 UK military personnel detained last week entered its waters six times before they were arrested, and announced that the promised release of the woman sailor was suspended due to Britain's "behavior" in the matter.

An Iranian naval spokesman said Thursday there is videotape and documents, including global positioning numbers, to back up their claims.

The latest salvo in the standoff came as Iranian military commander Alireza Afshar announced that the release of Faye Turney was being suspended.

"The wrong behavior of those who live in London caused the suspension," Afshar said, according to the Mehr news agency.

The latest salvo in the standoff came as Ali Larijani, the secretary of of Iran's Supreme National Council, warned that Britain's tough stance in the matter was causing a delay in the release of Faye Turney. (Watch as dispute grows more bitter )

On Wednesday Iranian Foreign Minister Manouchehr Mottaki had said Turney would be released "very soon."

Larijani said Tehran would like to resolve the issue through bilateral discussions and an investigation of legal and technical issues, and again asserted that the British patrol boats entered Iranian waters illegally.

In London, a spokesman for British Prime Minister Tony Blair said Thursday that Britain would not seek a confrontation with Iran on the matter.

"We want this resolved. We do not want a confrontation over this. We want this resolved as quickly as possible," the spokesman told reporters.

British Foreign Minister Margaret Beckett announced Wednesday that Britain was freezing all bilateral diplomatic business with Iran until the 15 Britons were freed.

The dispute has sparked anti-British protests in Iran, raised Middle East tensions, already high over concerns about Iran's nuclear ambitions, and sent shockwaves through the oil market. (Oil shock)

Thursday marked the sixth day Tehran has defiantly refused Britain consular access to the detained sailors.

They were arrested March 23 as they conducted anti-smuggling patrols near the mouth of the Shatt al-Arab, at the northern end of the Persian Gulf.

The waterway has long been the site of tensions between Iraq and Iran, which both claim it as their territory.

Britain insists its sailors were in Iraqi waters, but Iran says the vessels clearly entered its territory six times before the crew members were detained.

The arrests prompted a flurry of diplomatic activity in and outside the Gulf, with several countries calling for the immediate and unconditional release of the Britons.

The United Nations Security Council is expected to discuss the issue Thursday.

U.N. Secretary General Ban Ki-moon met with Mottaki on the sidelines of the Arab League summit in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia Thursday to talk about the situation.

'Friendly, hospitable'
In a videotape broadcast Wednesday on the Iranian Arabic language network Al Alam, Turney, wearing a black scarf covering her hair, said that her crew had "trespassed" into Iranian waters. (Watch Turney identify herself and describe what happened )

"Obviously we trespassed into their waters," she said.

"They were very friendly, very hospitable, very thoughtful, nice people. They explained to us why we'd been arrested. There was no aggression, no hurt, no harm. They were very, very compassionate," Turney added.

It was not known when the videotape was shot, or if Turney, 26, was able to speak freely, since she is being held against her will.

Turney -- who holds the rank of leading seaman, roughly equivalent to a petty officer first class in the U.S. Navy -- appeared to be in good physical condition and wore a black scarf to cover her hair. (Read Turney's profile)

In other scenes, she was shown smoking a cigarette as she spoke with someone off camera.

The British government reacted angrily to that video and another showing Turney and other crew members eating a meal.

Beckett said she was "very concerned about these pictures and any indication of pressure on or coercion of our personnel who were carrying out a routine operation in accordance with international law and under a United Nations resolution in support of the Iraqi government."

Wednesday, the British Ministry of Defense gave what it said was proof that the British ship carrying the sailors and marines never strayed into Iranian waters.

British Vice Adm. Charles Style said the global positioning system on the ship proves the vessel was "clearly" 3.1 kilometers (1.7 nautical miles) inside Iraqi waters.

Iran insists the ship was inside its territorial waters and, according to Style, provided a map with coordinates on Saturday in an attempt to prove the point.

Style said those coordinates actually "turned out to confirm they were in Iraqi waters" and Iraq has supported that position.

Upon pointing that out Sunday through diplomatic contacts, Style said Iran then "provided a second set of coordinates" on Monday that were "in Iranian waters over two nautical miles" from the position shown by the HMS Cornwall and confirmed by the merchant vessel the British personnel boarded.

The "change of coordinates," Style said "is hard to legitimate."

Letter also released
Iran also released a letter it said was written by Turney to her parents. The letter was handed to the British ambassador to Iran in Tehran on Wednesday, the state-run news agency reported.

"We were out in the boats when we were arrested by Iranian forces as we had apparently gone into Iranian waters. I wish we hadn't because then I'd be home with you all right now. I am so sorry we did, because I know we wouldn't be here now if we hadn't," the letter said. (Read letter)

CNN cannot confirm that Turney wrote the letter or, if she did, whether she did so under duress.

The television station broadcast video of what appeared to be a handwritten letter, signed "Faye." (Watch CNN's Aneesh Raman's analysis of what's striking about this video )

"I want you all to know that I am well and safe. I am being well looked after. I am fed 3 meals a day and have a constant supply of fluids," the letter said.

Meanwhile the U.S. navy was wrapping up its largest exercise in Gulf waters since 2003. (Full story)

Subject: RE: BS: Sailors kidnapped by Revolutionary Guard
From: beardedbruce
Date: 29 Mar 07 - 09:46 AM

Barry and Dianavan,

Point of fact: The original location where the capture occurred, GIVEN BY THE IRANIANS was in Iraqi territory. Not disputed. The Iranians then changed the claimed location AFTER this was pointed out to them.

I think you two are the ones who are out of your depth, here. This was a further violation of international law by Iran.

So of course you want to blame the UK.

Subject: RE: BS: Sailors kidnapped by Revolutionary Guard
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 29 Mar 07 - 09:45 AM

I suspect that this apparent reversal of a decision that had apparently been made has to do with in-fighting amongst Iranian factions ...

Subject: RE: BS: Sailors kidnapped by Revolutionary Guard
From: Rasener
Date: 29 Mar 07 - 09:25 AM

They have suspeneded the release of the British woman. So things go from bad to worse.

Subject: RE: BS: Sailors kidnapped by Revolutionary Guard
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 29 Mar 07 - 09:11 AM

It is now pretty clear that unless you belong to the "oh, let's have the border over there a bit" school of thought that the events were actually in Iraqi water.

Subject: RE: BS: Sailors kidnapped by Revolutionary Guard
From: bubblyrat
Date: 29 Mar 07 - 09:09 AM

I don"t think that it has anything at all to do with Territorial Waters. The sailors / marines were taken prisoner by units of the ruling political party, not the Iranian Navy. They were hovering / loitering close by, probably for some time, just waiting for the opportunity to grab a boarding -party, and take them hostage, then humiliate them in the eyes of the world, as they"re doing now.Why ?? God knows !! Pride ?? Prestige ? "Face " ?? The Iranians are not Arabs , don"t forget----they are Persians, and would love the Arab countries to fear and respect THEM . What better way ,than to very publically humiliate Britain in the eyes of the whole world, whilst at the same time testing the USA "s resolve by demanding the release of Iranian prisoners !!?? If anything, it"s a stroke of genius !!Of course, if Britain had STRONG leadership ( Churchill, Thatcher ) then this farcical situation would either have never arisen, or would have been dealt with quickly, ruthlessly and decisively, but under Trembling Tony, the situation will probably drag on for months or years !! And what the Hell is my country doing, sending the mothers of young children out to risk their lives ( and mental health--She will never be the same, not now ) in God-forsaken and highly unstable places like The Gulf ??? What price sexual equality now, ladies ???

Subject: RE: BS: Sailors kidnapped by Revolutionary Guard
From: Rasener
Date: 29 Mar 07 - 09:00 AM

Only if Britain goes to the UN Security Council or freezes relationships with Iran.

Subject: RE: BS: Sailors kidnapped by Revolutionary Guard
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 29 Mar 07 - 08:07 AM

The Iranians have gone back on their offer to release one of the hostages.
They say they have done this because of Britain's "incorrect attitude".

Subject: RE: BS: Sailors kidnapped by Revolutionary Guard
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 29 Mar 07 - 04:53 AM

http://news.bbc.co.uk/

This site has link to Iranian video. Merchant ship is briefly shown.

Subject: RE: BS: Sailors kidnapped by Revolutionary Guard
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 29 Mar 07 - 04:24 AM

Dianavan, all your questions have already been answered.