 sj |
||
|
||
BS: Obama is a socialist
|
|
|
Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist From: Little Hawk Date: 07 Nov 08 - 04:42 PM It is laughable to assert that Obama is a socialist, and only someone who is grossly ignorant of what socialism is could possibly think so. Here's an article from today's Toronto Star, giving a Canadian viewpoint on where Obama would stand in the Canadian political spectrum...somewhat to right of center. Canada IS a capitalist society. Canadian view of Barack Obama The article is written by Rosie DiManno, one of Canada's foremost columnists. I would describe her as a tough "conservative" liberal in Canadian terms. That is, she writes for a liberal newspaper, but she tends to write from a rather conservative "tough love" mindset. For example, she has enthusiastically backed the Iraq war from day 1, while our government chose not to get involved in it and not to support it, and our public in general looked askance at the whole thing. I agree with Rosie DiManno about half the time. She's smart, tough, stubborn, and opinionated. I would not know whether to describe her as "liberal" or "conservative", because she just doesn't fully fit either description. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 07 Nov 08 - 01:57 PM Anyway, the election is over, these kind of incidents are totally irrelevant. What signifies is what happens over the next few years, with the new regime in office. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist From: GUEST,TIA Date: 07 Nov 08 - 12:00 PM Unfortunately, FOX panders to those who either care not to discriminate, or are totaly unaware that some discrimination might be necessary. The biased and the ignorant, in short (sorry Pop and Unc). |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist From: Amos Date: 07 Nov 08 - 11:42 AM The ability to discriminate is an individual accomplishment, I woudl offer, individually gained, much like riding a bicycle. If you do not pursue it with zeal and assiduous practice, you end up not doing it well. A |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist From: GUEST,TIA Date: 07 Nov 08 - 11:00 AM And that is what spoils the whole crate of apples - how are people to discriminate between the O'Reilly and Hannity "news" and the respectable news? My Father-in-Law, and Uncle cannot. That makes them very difficult to be around. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist From: Art Thieme Date: 07 Nov 08 - 10:58 AM Once again, capitalism has proven itself to be largely bankrupt and incapable of sharing meaningfully to anyone below the status of middle class. Why have so many of you continued your rant in favor of this system that is so non-inclusive, and actually destructive to people the world over? Conversely, I think some of you protest too much against anything "social." Socialism seems, to me, the democratic direction we ought to be heading into willingly and in double time---but without any totalitarian system or police state to enforce it. I am willing to vote it in as a great hope for the future. It is the time, right now, to jettison the ponderous baggage of older bankrupt dogmas! Art |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist From: Amos Date: 07 Nov 08 - 10:23 AM I think there are some people at Fox who make for the reputation CC describes. There are others who, although stilll of a conservative bias, try to make respectable news. The Bill O'Reilly and Sean Hannity hydrophobic types are the worst of the lot; but they are not the whole picture. A |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist From: CarolC Date: 07 Nov 08 - 10:02 AM One of the videos that is showing that communist flag has some words going by as the flag is waved. To paraphrase some of them a bit (quoting from Stalin, I believe)... Ideas are more powerful than guns. We don't allow our enemies to have guns. Why should we allow them to have ideas? That right there is the FOX NEWS agenda from start to finish. Deprive the American people of ideas - replace any ideas they might have of their own with the ideas we impose on them, and we and the Republican party will be able to maintain our hold on power forever. FOX is anti-democracy and anti-freedom. They are no better than Stalin was when it comes to suppressing freedom and democracy. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist From: CarolC Date: 07 Nov 08 - 09:44 AM I would be willing to bet money that FOX planted that flag in there. Notice we don't ever see who is holding it up. That person never shows their face. Probably because someone would recognize them from the FOX newsroom. FOX's ratings have been slipping a lot lately and they've got to find ways to pump them up. Juicy scaremongering like this has always been their ace in the hole, but I think people are starting to lose interest in that sort of thing. About time, too. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 07 Nov 08 - 07:53 AM "This, in brief, is why capitalism won." Perhaps "Don't speak too soon, for the wheel's still in spin..." |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist From: Emma B Date: 07 Nov 08 - 07:36 AM 'Our longstanding policies toward Cuba have been a miserable failure, evidenced by the fact that Fidel Castro is now the longest-serving head of state in the world. If our isolationist policies were meant to weaken him, they certainly haven't worked. I believe that normalization of relations with Cuba would help the oppressed and poverty-stricken Cuban people while setting the stage for a more democratic government once Castro inevitably leaves the scene.' Obama 2004 Now that would be a 'change'! |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist From: Emma B Date: 07 Nov 08 - 07:17 AM Couple of years ago there was an exhibition titled "¡Che! Revolution and Commerce."... This is a review of the exhibition from Ann Althouse' web page.... 'In the United States, Che's life story and ambitions seem beside the point, or maybe they've just been reduced to caricature. The guy's face is shorthand for "I'm against the status quo." He's politics' answer to James Dean, a rebel with a very specific cause. And since very few people know anything about the cause, or the rebel -- besides the basics -- the Che shirt has about it the whiff of inside info. It makes you part of the thrift-store intelligentsia, even if your real focus is beer pong. This, in brief, is why capitalism won. It's the only system that understands that we'd all like to change the world, but we are way too lazy for that sort of thing. Especially if there's ice cream around. When you get done with a Cherry Guevara, you're left with a wooden stick with the words "We will bite to the end!" stamped on it. If there are nails in Che's coffin, this, no doubt, is what they look like. I know a lot of people get really mad about all the Che imagery. This article takes the attitude that the runaway popularization actually defeats Che's politics. Revolution is processed into rebelliousness. Are we supposed to feel good about the way our culture drains serious meaning out of things?' Thank you Ann |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist From: bobad Date: 07 Nov 08 - 06:35 AM "...you better start swimmin' Or you'll sink like a stone For the times they are a-changin'." |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 07 Nov 08 - 06:25 AM Thanks, Sawzaw - I find those pictures very reassuring... |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist From: Sawzaw Date: 07 Nov 08 - 02:11 AM Obama campaign office Obama supporter Obama campaign worker |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 06 Nov 08 - 09:47 PM Alaskan Bowie Knife Plumber's Friend "Republican Red Gear" |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 06 Nov 08 - 09:22 PM Surely that's a Republican flag. No doubt they are singing "We'll keep the Red Flag flying here" Bright red, with the hallowed symbol of the crossed Plumbers Friend and Bowie Knife... No doubt about it, those are hardcore Republicans bravely showing their defiance! |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist From: Amos Date: 06 Nov 08 - 12:35 PM Sawz: If you took off your green glasses, you might notice that people from every walk of life and every section of the political spectrum have turned out to celebrate Obama's election. Your insistence that his sporadic association with Ayers is significant in the overall picture is pathetic, and, I would add, aberrated. Your use of "scary pushbuttons" like socialism is likewise disingenuous, or else profoundly undiscriminating. Obama is fiercely in favor of the private ownership of production, of entrepreneurship and the spirit of innovation and private capitalism which has built this country. He is also deeply in favor of a country in which the citizens take responsibility for building a coherent whole, look out for each other, and look for thebest in their fellow-men. These latter concepts may be beyond you, or they may not, I don't know. But to try and paint them with hated colors is both ucharitable of you, and distinctly twisted. A |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist From: Barry Finn Date: 06 Nov 08 - 12:29 PM Call him whatever you like but he is the best to come along in a long time. Instead of trying to beat him down & seeing as he's in there & there's nothing you can do about it, either get out of the way & stop being an obstacle or get on board & help to make this a better place to live. We've all seen how the party's fighting one another has gotten us & it's what helped to put us in the hole we're in now. Well, that & a few other bad policies. Barry |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist From: goatfell Date: 06 Nov 08 - 12:12 PM it's about time really you got a 'socialist' to lead you. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist From: GUEST,TIA Date: 06 Nov 08 - 12:09 PM Talk about showing true colors. Fox news spots a nut in the crowd, and gives it big play. A Fox viewer (just as intended) picks it up and spreads it. Doesn't have anything to do with his statements, history, proposed policies, etc. But it is great innuendo. Again, we are not the angry people. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist From: Big Al Whittle Date: 06 Nov 08 - 05:38 AM I think the general idea is that they're psyching themselves up to say that an assasination attempt is in order to rescue America from itself. The Spirit of Timothy Mcveigh and John Wilkes Booth lives on! Why else persist with this bullshit? Why start it in the first place? Obama won fair and square on his arguments and the crap record of the party in power at the time. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist From: Don Firth Date: 06 Nov 08 - 12:54 AM Angry? Who, me? Hell, I've been chuckling all day! That is, between bouts of yelling "Whoopie!!!" at the top of my lungs. And are the neighbors complaining? No, they're joining in! Isn't there some sort of twelve-step program for people like Sawzaw? Don Firth |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist From: Sawzaw Date: 06 Nov 08 - 12:04 AM I am sorry that Amos has to constantly make excessively verbose and obstreperous excuses for the obvious support of Obama by socialists and communists. Example Ayers threw a party to launch Obama's political career. Ayers 1995: "Maybe I'm the last communist who is willing to admit it." "I don't like Lenin as much as the early Marx." Obama writes a newspaper blurb for an Ayers book. The book jacket mentioned Ayres' terrorist activities that Obama calims he was not aware of (I guess he didn't read it): "A searing and timely account of the juvenile court system, and the courageous individuals who rescue hope from despair. Michelle Obama chaired a panel for Ayers, and invited her husband to share the stage, to promote a program and the same book by Ayers, to lower sentences and change court attitudes, toward juvenile offenders. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist From: Amos Date: 05 Nov 08 - 11:28 PM Sawz: That was pretty disgusting of you to take one weirdo out of a crowd and attribute his behaviour to "Obama supporters" with the direct implication that all supporters of Obama are traitors. In fact, that may be the low-downdest ugliest and stupidest porposition you have had the effrontery to come up with. You should be ashamed; an apology is in order. Your hatred is clearly making a clouded, overheated messy stew of your mind. A |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist From: Sawzaw Date: 05 Nov 08 - 10:10 PM Obama supporters show their colors |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist From: artbrooks Date: 05 Nov 08 - 09:37 PM 600...and what a waste of bandwidth. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist From: Lepus Rex Date: 05 Nov 08 - 09:35 PM If Obama were a aocialist, I'd have voted for his pinko ass. And I didn't. ---Will |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist From: GUEST,number 6 Date: 05 Nov 08 - 09:28 PM "Obama is a socialist" so am I. (I was president of my graduating high school class) biLL |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist From: Riginslinger Date: 05 Nov 08 - 09:21 PM "Obama is a socialist" So was Eugene V. Debs. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist From: Sawzaw Date: 05 Nov 08 - 12:50 PM I am happy for you TIA for not having a chip on your shoulder. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist From: GUEST,TIA Date: 05 Nov 08 - 11:18 AM Angry? Who's angry? Yeeeeeeehaaaaaaaa! |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist From: Sawzaw Date: 05 Nov 08 - 10:32 AM I am so happy for you angry people, even the ones that like blowjobs from other guys. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist From: Amos Date: 05 Nov 08 - 10:32 AM Or at least try to find out what is really going on in a time-frame more recent than the 20th century, eh? A |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist From: Alice Date: 05 Nov 08 - 10:29 AM give it a rest, Saw it will help your blood pressure |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist From: Big Al Whittle Date: 05 Nov 08 - 10:27 AM Now that us socialist terrorist muslims are in the charge - you Americans better watch out. Specially those who wanted to use stun guns on low settings in the privacy of your own homes, and bring in the death penalty for being a moose. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist From: catspaw49 Date: 05 Nov 08 - 12:17 AM So Sawz.....Do you think Ayers should be Secretary of State, Defense, or Interior? Blow me Whineytittybaby Spaw |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist From: CarolC Date: 05 Nov 08 - 12:12 AM Socialist or not, he's now the president elect. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist From: Sawzaw Date: 05 Nov 08 - 12:12 AM In 1974 Ayers co-authored --along with Dohrn, Jeff Jones, and Celia Sojourn -- a book titled Prairie Fire. This book contained the following statements: * "We are a guerrilla organization. We are communist women and men ... deeply affected by the historic events of our time in the struggle against U.S. imperialism." * "Our intention is to disrupt the empire, to incapacitate it, to put pressure on the cracks, to make it hard to carry out its bloody functioning against the people of the world, to join the world struggle, to attack from the inside." * "The only path to the final defeat of imperialism and the building of socialism is revolutionary war." * "Revolutionary war will be complicated and protracted. It includes mass struggle and clandestine struggle, peaceful and violent, political and economic, cultural and military, where all forms are developed in harmony with the armed struggle." * "Without mass struggle there can be no revolution. *Without armed struggle there can be no victory." * "We need a revolutionary communist party in order to lead the struggle, give coherence and direction to the fight, seize power and build the new society." * "Our job is to tap the discontent seething in many sectors of the population, to find allies everywhere people are hungry or angry, to mobilize poor and working people against imperialism." * "Socialism is the total opposite of capitalism/imperialism. It is the rejection of empire and white supremacy. Socialism is the violent overthrow of the bourgeoisie, the establishment of the dictatorship of the proletariat, and the eradication of the social system based on profit." |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 03 Nov 08 - 12:01 AM Both sides have presented their cases..and on the most part, pretty well. Both sides show the other to be corrupt, and at the behest of special interest....what's the news flash?? They are POLITICIANS!..You know, professional liars, for a buck..mouthpieces for those behind the scenes that need a front man, to make it appear that the bucks they get, corruptly, is perfectly legal..or at least offer plausible deniability, that they conned the public, with due process!! |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist From: Sawzaw Date: 02 Nov 08 - 10:34 PM "letting the lobbiests run the country" That be Chris Dodd, lettin them run the counrty. A friend of Angelo and largest recipient, next to Obama, of $11,106,498 in lobbyist contributions from: Citigroup Inc.................$314,194 United Technologies...........$262,700 SAC Capital Partners..........$242,900 American International Group..$223,478 Royal Bank of Scotland........$213,600 St Paul Travelers Companies...$201,000 Bear Stearns..................$198,700 Goldman Sachs.................$175,600 Credit Suisse Group...........$154,550 Morgan Stanley................$154,300 Merrill Lynch.................$131,950 JPMorgan Chase & Co...........$129,650 Lehman Brothers...............$122,300 KPMG LLP......................$113,100 General Electric..............$110,650 Hartford Financial Services...$110,450 UBS AG........................$108,500 Deloitte Touche Tohmatsu .....$108,000 The Hartford...................$94,350 Bank of America................$91,300 |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist From: CarolC Date: 02 Nov 08 - 09:05 PM Anyone who thinks Obama favors the kinds of economic systems in the definitions above is pretty deluded if they think Obama's economic philosophy fits either of those definitions. Obama is a huge believer in the market. That's why, for instance, he prefers a market based solution to the health care crisis rather than a socialist solution. Kucinich's health care plan is socialist (if anyone needs to see what a socialist health care plan looks like), unlike Obama's, which is market based. That's also why Obama's economic plan includes economic incentives to get the green technology market up and running. Because he sees that the green economy is where the market has the most growth potential, and he doesn't want the US to be left behind in this emerging world market. Some people are so ignorant, it truly takes my breath away. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist From: Sawzaw Date: 02 Nov 08 - 09:04 PM "But it was okay to give no-bid contracts to Dick Cheney's buddies at Halliburton???" It was OK by Gore. He invented them as part of him a Bubba's balancing of the budget. Take a bow Al. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist From: Bobert Date: 02 Nov 08 - 08:42 PM That's right, LH... The real socialists are Bush and his buddies who think that no-bid contratcs are just peachy... That is socialism because there is no competition... The government becoem the purchaser of good and services based on, ahhhhhhhh, exactly nothing other than they want to??? This is Sawz idea of what is just peachy... It is 100 times more socialistic than anything that Obama has proposed... In a free market companies bid... This is the part of capitalism where things work best... Does anyone for one minuite think that Halliburton was the only company on the planet who could hire truck drivers??? Or folks who could lay block... Or could open a friggin' can of vegeatables??? Come on, Sawz.... Your arguments are weaker than branch water... B~ |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist From: curmudgeon Date: 02 Nov 08 - 08:40 PM Thank you LH and McGrath for explaining what should be obvious to those who take the time to look at the facts - Tom |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 02 Nov 08 - 08:31 PM In fact if you actually examine that Obama quote about spreading the wealth around it is pretty evident that what he is talking about is reducing taxes so as to leave more money in the hands of more people, so they can spend it. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist From: Little Hawk Date: 02 Nov 08 - 08:23 PM I am stating what occurs with corporate financing of political parties, Sawzaw. I am not saying I approve of it or think it's a good thing. The fact that there are no laws in place to prevent that sort of lobbying leaves the foxes in control of the henhouse. That is not a good thing...no matter which party wins the election. Now..."socialism". Your definition of socialism seems to assume that it must be universal (applying to ALL means of producing and distributing goods) in order to be socialism. That's ridiculous. It does not have to be universal, and it isn't, except under the most extreme forms of Communism...hell, even there it is probably not universal. Your definition also leaves out the many forms of socialism which do NOT apply to producing and distributing goods at all, but to providing various forms of absolutely necessary public service, such as: - a government - a public educational system - an armed forces - a judicial system - a police force - public hospitals - public libraries - social security systems - large media and communications networks - environmental regulation agencies - publicly financed scientific research efforts - NASA and the space program - public parks - conservation areas to protect wildlife - roads, bridges, sidewalks, traffic lights, traffic signs, airports, and other necessary transportation facilities - a postal system - and a great many other NECESSARY things which you seem to have forgotten about? All of the above are socialist instititutions because: 1. They are paid for by taxes 2. Their personnel are hired and employed by the government 3. They exist for the benefit of the general public and the maintenance of a functioning society 4. They are done not for profit, but because it is something that NEEDS to be done for its own sake, regardless of profit. That is what socialism is for. It is NOT for taking away all your private enterprise and taking over all your production of goods. (That part is done just fine by capitalism.) It is NOT for establishing the kind of dark dictatorship you imagine in the lunatic pipedreams that have been fed to you by several generations of fools in the USA who are living on scary myths that they don't even begin to understand. Every modern society has a great deal of socialism in place right now, because there is NO way you can possibly run a society without it. You have it. We have it. Everyone does. We have it because we must. Your definition is misleading. It's incomplete. It's wrong. It's selectively ignorant. It was written by someone who can only think in terms of a completely full glass or a completely empty glass, but apparently never even grasped the concept of a glass that is half full or that has two liquids mixed inside it. I believe in a society in which both socialism AND capitalism play a healthy part, and guess what? That's exactly what I have in Canada. It's what you have in the USA too, only you apparently don't know it. I have seen NOTHING to indicate that Obama intends to convert society so that "producing and distributing goods is owned collectively or by a centralized government that often plans and controls the economy". How could he? It is asinine to think that he would want to do that or that there would be even the ghost of a chance of him doing that in the USA (or in Canada) (or in Europe). Therefore, if that is your definition of socialism, then you cannot accuse Obama of being "socialist", because nothing the man has said or done suggests in any way that he has intentions of having the government take over the producing and distributing of all the goods in your society. Really, it's just ridiculous to think he would try to do that! It's asinine. No one could do it even if they wanted to. You might as well accuse him of witchcraft and vampirism too, while you're at it. That would make about as much sense. No American politician can possibly alter your society to make it what you think of as "socialist". Not a chance. And none would attempt to. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist From: Bobert Date: 02 Nov 08 - 08:02 PM But it was okay to give no-bid contracts to Dick Cheney's buddies at Halliburton??? (But, Bobertz, Halliburton is the onlu corporation that could have maintained trucks, built schools, cooked food and/or put out pipeline fires...) Bull feathers... That falls under tha category of the "Big Lie"... Don't anyone talk about Obama being this big redistributor when over the last 8 years we have seen more and more of the working classes labors transferred to the rich and well connected... B~ |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist From: Sawzaw Date: 02 Nov 08 - 07:54 PM so·cial·ism (sÅ쳌’shÉ™-lÄz’əm) n. 1. Any of various theories or systems of social organization in which the means of producing and distributing goods is owned collectively or by a centralized government that often plans and controls the economy. 2. The stage in Marxist-Leninist theory intermediate between capitalism and communism, in which collective ownership of the economy under the dictatorship of the proletariat has not yet been successfully achieved. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist From: Sawzaw Date: 02 Nov 08 - 07:52 PM Yep, those evil corporations buy candidates and elections. Then in the next breath, it is smart for those wonderful corporations to buy candidates and elections. Flipty Flopity there goes the Hypocrity. |
