BS: Obama is a socialist

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 26 Oct 08 - 05:26 PM

So are we to understand that the video TIA in the Rocky Mountain Video was drastically censored to make the Obama supporters look totally unthreatening and the whole thing fairly low key? Because that was how it appeared from that clip.

All looked a lot less unpleasant than the stuff in the first minute of this video from a previous occasion, a few weeks ago. (After the first minute it turns into a slide show about Obama, to accompany Dolores Keane singing Let it Be.)

No doubt about it, partisan politics can be remarkably ugly at times. Anyone involved in this kind of situation needs to step back and look at what they are doing and saying, to check they aren't stepping over the line. And that goes for us on threads here as well.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 26 Oct 08 - 04:20 PM

I suppose there was a point??

If there was any need to 'destroy patriarchal oppression'..I'm sure your children have more than enough reason!

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 26 Oct 08 - 04:08 PM

Sorry and all that, but it is getting close to the time for the Molotov cocktail to resume its intended purpose of destroying partriarchal oppression.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 26 Oct 08 - 04:02 PM

Thank you, Ebbie, Amos, and TIA.

The repeated accounts I got, yesterday, all seem to bear out. When I think of all the things that I've seen, read, and heard about this 'election', I'm left with this thought, of which none of the participants seem to even consider. It is the only way out of this mess of intentional divisions that have been perpetrated on us all. It is the only way to give one shelter from the impending clash, about to face this country, so, of course, a 'pre-planned solution' that they have waiting for us. Anyway, it all boils down to this; you are either doing it or not!....and that is........

..."Do unto others as you'd have them do unto you!"-Jesus of Nazereth

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Amos
Date: 26 Oct 08 - 12:26 PM

GfS:

The picture you describe is unsettling and saddening.

However, if it is of any comfort, I know lots of Obama supporters, NONE of whom would ever resort to the general kind of demonstrative melodrama you are describing.

While I can appreciate people getting angry after having been fed too many lies, or manipulated too often, I don't think the set of people who are Obama supporters is in any way identical to those who resort to public dramatization of anger and hatred, and in fact I would have expected it (from the degree of mindless hatred I have seen on blogs) to be the opposite--that is, the "public anger" set would have a higher proportion of members from the right.

Another possibility is that this is one of those too-clever maneuvers whereby a group gets framed by others posing as them, and doing extreme things.   It's been known to happen in trying times, and this race is certainly such a time.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: TIA
Date: 26 Oct 08 - 12:24 PM

Of course, I wasn't there, and I am unlikely to take anyone's word for anything. While seeking multiple accounts, the only video I could find was this.

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/videos/detail/tensions-flare-outside-mccains-rally/

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 26 Oct 08 - 04:19 AM

Read this last of these, and the shock doctrine one of Carolc's. then take a look around!

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 26 Oct 08 - 02:43 AM

For once, and wholeheartedly, Ebbie, I agree with you!! I would think as musicians, and people whose expressions come from the inner souls of men, and women, and put it into art, and communicate, from heart to heart, mind to mind...that the healing could, and would start with us, and spread across our nation.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Ebbie
Date: 26 Oct 08 - 02:37 AM

If I 'read' you aright, I understand your dismay and anxiety as to what kind of nation we are becoming. I agree that it is unacceptable for either supporters or opponents to behave in such a manner.

One of the things I have been saying among friends is that, whoever wins, we all lose if we don't find some way to heal the divisions amongst us.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 26 Oct 08 - 02:25 AM

..or, cute remarks, either.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 26 Oct 08 - 02:21 AM

Ok, as many of you know, I've been reluctant to think either of the two candidates are worth the attention, that they have mustered up. However,
I've been leaving a little window open, to be persuaded by either one, one way or the other. Before McCain was nominated, I actively routed against him, for being a phony, to his stated ideals. I actually routed for Obama to win the nomination, just so Hillary would disappear into one of the lesser footnotes of history. I've stated my position on here, and was very clear about it, and as we all exchanged posts, some people, of both persuasions, shared either their facts, rumors, accusations, talking points, et al, along with their rebuttals, with each other. For a while, I reserved comment about either one, in hopes that, perhaps, there would be some, just some tidbit, that would tip it, one way or the other. Being open, also put me into a position of being very objective, because there have been so many allegations, and outright lies, from both sides,..well, you just can't believe either one, till something solid panned out. Personally, I preferred the lesser candidates, that the 'news' media absolutely fails to cover.

HOWEVER, something happened yesterday, that I thought I'd share, that may, or may not, interest you. It is true, and I have several personal eye witness accounts of it.

Friday, our cabinet maker, decided to go, with his family, to a neighboring town, of Durango, Colorado, to attend a McCain 'rally', on the high school grounds. Today, when he came by the house, to bring some stuff for the kitchen trim.
I asked him how it was.
He said it was 'great', so on and so forth.
Then he added, 'There were a lot of protesters there, too'.
I asked, 'Well, how was that?'
He replied,'They were nasty!'
'Nasty?'
He replied,'Yeah,they were blocking the streets,screaming everything
from the vicious, to the obscene'...and he proceeded to tell me some details about them, including wearing bandannas, and hooded masks over their faces, and in general, just being frenzied punks.

Well, I figured, 'Aw, that's just his perspective, being as he is a McCain supporter, so I didn't give it too much mind, being as both sides punctuate the foibles of the other.

But, today, we had to go to Durango, ourselves to get some building materials at Home Depot, and a couple of other stops. Being curious, I figured I'd ask some of the locals their opinions, either way.

My little survey, included employees, from the stores we went to, a policeman, I button holed to talk to, and some shoppers, contractors,
and various others. Just average people.

With NO EXCEPTIONS they began to tell me pretty much the same story, some expressing embarrassment, fear, disgust, etc,etc. They described it as a frenzy, extremely hostile, dangerous, and one likened it to a mob scene, right out of the news, from the middle east!!! Effigies of Bush and McCain kissing, traffic being blocked and passengers, just passing through being victims of vulgar screams and catcalls.....

'Who were they?' I asked, at every occasion.
"Obama supporters', was the repeated answer.

I found myself thinking about the 'passion' I've seen in the Mudcat Forum, and debated within myself, whether to post anything about this, to you. I've witnessed, on here, some of the most inane, arguments, spins, and denials of well supported facts, and the avoidance of well thought out questions, ..and I've come to the conclusion..Ok, I still don't like McCain, but if this is indicative of Obama supporters, this country is in some serious, serious trouble, the likes we've never seen. Everyone, just step back, take a breath, and without prejudice, or bias...seek the truth, no matter which way the chips fall.

No 'cure remarks' this morning.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Amos
Date: 25 Oct 08 - 07:25 PM

JEsus, Sawz, you should be ashamed for fowarding such crap--that's worse than anything I ever put in the Bush thread!! LOL!!


A

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Greg F.
Date: 25 Oct 08 - 06:03 PM

Where do you even FIND this worthless shit? and more importantly, don't you have anything better to do than play with it and smear it all over yourself?

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Sawzaw
Date: 25 Oct 08 - 05:46 PM

Obama And Radical Backers Threaten America
2008-10-23 Harrisonburg Daily News, William Becker

CANDIDATES FOR PUBLIC office, like most of us, are the cumulative products of the influences of people they meet and the books they read. The books include such diverse resources as the Bible to the "Rules for Radicals," which brings us to Saul D. Alinsky and Barack H. Obama.

Obama's collegiate activities, campus affiliations and the other particulars of his student years continue to remain a closely guarded secret. His Chicago days surely clarify any uncertainty as to whether or not he read about the propagation of social change through grassroots organization and intimidation as recommended by Alinsky.

To further foster the class warfare paradigm, add the cumulative effect of 20 years in Rev. Jeremiah Wright's sanctuary. At the very least, the senator's grasp of biblical truth has been seriously degraded by Wright's "Black Liberation Theology."

This victim-based false gospel has its roots in Latin America. Blended with a Marxist twist, it has been the bane of traditional Catholicism in the Southern Hemisphere for decades. The Chicago version espoused by Wright packages this unbiblical theology with class warfare and anti-Americanism to stir up the faithful and mobilize them for grassroots action.

ACORN, which endorses Obama, and Alinsky, however, should make news headlines this week. Alinsky, one of Obama's most influential mentors, begins his treatise "Rules for Radicals," strangely enough, on page three, with a biblical quotation from Job – "The life of man upon earth is a warfare" — and then follows it up on page 29 by advising, "the third rule of the ethics of means and ends is that in war, the end justifies any means."

This is a relativistic restatement of a premise of one of the author's favorite icons, Karl Marx, who, with F. Nietzsche, were his chief tutors. Is it any wonder that 14 states and the FBI are now conducting investigations into major voter registration fraud perpetrated by this radical group, which was the beneficiary of $830,000 from Obama's campaign?

Further connecting the dots brings us back to an ACORN affiliate, Obama's first laboratory for honing his organizational skills with grant funds, which were redirected from educational reform to grassroots mobilization of like-minded radicals committed to revolutionary change and thoroughly brainwashed by Alinsky. Is it difficult then, to see how this Marxist maxim "the end-justifies-any-means" will logically produce thousands of fraudulently secured voter registrations in more than a dozen states by none other than ACORN? Dishonesty will surely lead sub-prime mortgage applicants to misrepresent the facts when seeking a mortgage loan.

To complicate the mix further, add the corruption in the halls of congress. Rep. Barney Frank, D-Mass., announcing a while ago that the banking system was strong and Sen. Chris Dodd, securing a sweetheart mortgage from Countrywide just prior to its demise, must be held accountable, along with Sen. Obama, for their roles in the most devastating financial debacle in our lifetime.

The class struggle between the "haves" and the "have nots" is featured prominently in "Rules for Radicals." Heroes of the movement included men like Rousseau and Lenin. Genuine contempt for the rule of law is reflected in Rousseau's statement that "law is a very good thing for men with property and a very bad thing for men without property." Lenin's famous April Thesis disclosed his philosophy, which stated, "they have the guns and therefore we are for peace and for reformation through the ballot. When we have the guns then it will be through the bullet." Under this scenario it becomes easy to take from Joe the Plumber and redistribute to Tom, Dick and Harriet.

Obama and ACORN now fight with the ballot. Their end in this warfare justifies any means, including hoodlums intimidating lenders, fraudulent mortgage applications by the thousands, voter fraud in 14 states and the gross distortion of their stated objectives. The "bullets" of change will come later if and when they have achieved a veto proof majority in the Senate, control of the House of Representatives and possibly occupy 1600 Pennsylvania Ave.

Remember, as it has often been said, "great oaks from little acorns grow." This ACORN has already taken root and its branches are now choking off the integrity of the ballot box. This will surely threaten the sanctity of the life and actual existence of our beloved America.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Sawzaw
Date: 25 Oct 08 - 03:17 PM

Rashid and Mona Khalidi became close friends of Barack and Michelle Obama during the time when both Barack and Rashid taught at the University of Chicago (1992-2003). At a lavish farewell party for Khalidi in Chicago in 2003, when Khalidi left his prestigious position at the University of Chicago for an even more prestigious one at Columbia University in New York, Obama gave Khalidi a glowing eulogy. He said that he and his wife Michelle had been frequent dinner guests of the Khalidis, and that the Khalidis had frequently babysat for the Obama children. According to a Los Angeles Times account based on a video of Obama's speech, he added that "his many talks with the Khalidis, . . .had been 'consistent reminders to me of my own blind spots and my own biases. . . . It's for that reason that I'm hoping that, for many years to come, we continue that conversation-a conversation that is necessary not just around Mona and Rashid's dinner table,' but around 'this entire world.'"

Obama's assistance to the Khalidis, however, went beyond mere kind words at a farewell party. In 2001 and again in 2002, Obama, in his capacity as a member of the board of directors of the Woods Fund, voted to give the Arab-American Action Network co-founded by Rashid and Mona, and directed by Mona Khalidi, $75,000 in grants.

Rashid and Mona Khalidi anticipated Obama's generosity to AAAN by holding a fundraiser in their house for Obama's unsuccessful run for Congress in 2000. It would seem that it later proved to be a profitable event for the Khalidis

Rashid Khalidi was the director of the PLO's press agency WAFA from 1976 to 1982, at a time when the PLO was conducting a massacre of 37 Israeli civilians in a bus on Israel's coastal road, the brutal murder of a four-year-old Israeli girl in Nahariya, and numerous other terrorist killings of Israeli civilians. The PLO was also waging a brutal war against the Lebanese Christian community during this period, and carried out numerous massacres of Lebanese Christians; the worst of these was the killing of about 500 people in the village of Damour.

During this same period, Rashid's wife Mona Khalidi was an English translator for WAFA. Rashid Khalidi is now an advocate of a "one state solution" for all of "Palestine" - meaning the destruction of Israel and its replacement by an Arab state. Asaf Romirowsky and Jonathan Calt Harris, in an article in the Washington Times on July 9, 2004, summarized Rashid Khalidi's views about Israel this way: "[His] extremism comes out when he calls Israel an 'apartheid system in creation' and a 'racist state' that 'brainwashed' Americans do not understand. Jerusalem, with its Jewish majority since the 1880s, he deems 'an Arab city' whose control by Israeli 'foreigners' is 'unacceptable.' And so on." Khalidi also accuses Israel of "ethnic cleansing."

In 1995 Rashid and Mona Khalidi co-founded the The Arab-American Action Network, a virulently anti-Israel organization that strongly supports the Palestinian Arab terrorist movement. It regards the creation of the state of Israel as a "naqba" ("catastrophe" in Arabic).

Mona Khalidi served as the group's President from its inception until some time this year, although she is now listed only as a member of its board of directors.

http://www.familysecuritymatters.org/publications/id.1566/pub_detail.asp

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Sawzaw
Date: 25 Oct 08 - 03:10 PM

I am wrong. you are right. I apologize.

It is Bobby Rush, former member of the Marxist/Maoist Black Panther Party, that endorses Obama, not Bobby Seale.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: john f weldon
Date: 25 Oct 08 - 07:54 AM

Remember Garrison K's jokey song of 6 yrs ago: "We're all Republicans Now."? Looks like in 2008, they're all socialists now!

George Bush, John McCain, and now (gasp!) Allan (oops-I-was-wrong) Greenspan??!!!!??

http://blogs.mercurynews.com/docudrama/2008/10/24/ayn-rand-devotee-says-greenspans-philoshopy-not-anything-resembling-a-free-mar

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 25 Oct 08 - 02:15 AM

Ooops, typo and additional info...


From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 25 Oct 08 - 02:12 AM

From: Sawzaw
Date: 25 Oct 08 - 01:37 AM

Bobby Rush, co-founder of the Black Panther Party,

You mean, Bobby Seale. Bobby Rush is an R/B singer, another is a congressman.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 25 Oct 08 - 01:49 AM

As I've posted before, a Capitalist/Socialist balance works. Either one, out of balance, doesn't!

Speaking of Obama endorsements....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LfvE-P--2Zw

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Sawzaw
Date: 25 Oct 08 - 01:40 AM

Amos:

You said it was a crock and I am agreeing with you that for Obama to change his policies on the run and say anything to get elected is a crock. Real chameleonship.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Sawzaw
Date: 25 Oct 08 - 01:37 AM

Bobby Rush, co-founder of the Black Panther Party, endorses Obama

The Black Panthers literally burst onto the American scene with their now famous "shotgun" invasion of Sacramento, Calif. Legislative session. Legions of words have been written about this event already, but it quickly became a topic of discussion during this writer's visit with Bobby Rush as we delved into what he termed the "return to the original vision."

"The invasion," Rush stated, "was a military act for political reasons."

Rush insisted that the Panther Party was organized to fill a political void at the "grass roots" level. And the "invasion" of the California capitol was designed to capture the minds of Black people and make them aware of both the Panthers and what Black people could opt to do if they chose. At the same time Rush states the "invasion" was designed to make Black people aware of the fact that the system was bent on disarming the Black community.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: CarolC
Date: 24 Oct 08 - 08:08 PM

crossposted

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: CarolC
Date: 24 Oct 08 - 08:05 PM

In propaganda terms, that sort of thing is known as "newspeak".

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Oct 08 - 08:04 PM

Obama could just as easily be a Republican. One some issues he is to the right of McCain, such as calling for the US to defend Afghanistan against Pakistan who is using the Taliban by proxy to control tribal areas.

Obama would be a William Buckley kind of conservative. Buckley worked to get the demogogues, nut bags, John Birches, anti Semites and other fringe secessionist types out of the Republican Party. That is the kind of Republican Obama could be, minus the voodoo economic plan that has finally gone full course to the bottom.

Obama can also be a FDR socialist. In other words, Barack is so temperate and deliberate in his decision making that he is not an ideolog for any party whatsoever.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 24 Oct 08 - 07:07 PM

I suppose it's an example of the same process by which taboo swear-words lose their power as people use them more freely, so they move on to something stronger. (I won't give examples, because I think we've got to a stage where it's time to go in the opposite direction, so far as swear-words are concerned.)

The word "liberal", after being misused in American politics as a demonising insult word for year in and year out, has lost some its power to wound. Possibly it may even have occurred to some listeners that they live in a country which had always prided itself since its foundation as being a "liberal democracy".

So a totally inappropriate word gets plucked out of the air and used to replace or supplement it. "Socialism" is a word that is identified as a bad thing in the USA - so "Socialist" is the label to apply to Obama, regardless of the fact that there is absolutely nothing "Socialist" about his politics. (The more appropriate term might be "Liberal Conservatism" or possibly "Conservative Liberalism.)

It's rather similar to the way the word "Muslim" has been used - if a word has associations that many Americans don't like, that's the one to use, regardless of the fact that it is totally inappropriate.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Little Hawk
Date: 24 Oct 08 - 07:03 PM

If by some miracle Obama does turn out to be a "socialist", I only hope that he will remain one after he's elected! ;-) Christ knows, socialism needs all the help it can get down there in FantasyLand USA.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Stringsinger
Date: 24 Oct 08 - 06:02 PM

Sawzaw, there is no politician today in the US government who is a pure socialist.
They all believe in some form of capitalism either by supporting small business and entrepreneurial activity.

Only the Sarah Palin's of today throw the word "socialist" around to denigrate Democrats.
She doesn't know what the word means. Do you?

The 9 Communists who support Obama say nothing about his political ideology which
includes private enterprise (not a socialist ideology).

McCain is being endorsed by Osama bin Laden. Does that make him a terrorist?

Frank

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Amos
Date: 24 Oct 08 - 05:26 PM

Sawz:

Why?


A

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 24 Oct 08 - 03:50 PM

As dick said, all taxation is about distributing wealth.

If people don't have money they can't spend money. If people can't spend money the whole money-based economy collapses.

Leave aside issues like caring about how people survive, because those things maybe aren't too important to the kinnd of people who complain about "welfare". But they should care about the economy going down the pan, from their own point of view.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Sawzaw
Date: 24 Oct 08 - 02:19 PM

Amos this is a crock isn't it:

"They started saying this was welfare," said Obama adviser Austan Goolsbee. "So, just so they would absolutely not be able to say that, we decided that for the last two percent we'll simply add a work requirement."

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 23 Oct 08 - 11:38 PM

Bragging?..or complaining??

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: TIA
Date: 23 Oct 08 - 10:55 PM

Wow, that's a big pewter cup.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 23 Oct 08 - 10:44 PM

From: TIA
Date: 23 Oct 08 - 10:32 PM

Actually, TIA is quite large, and seated on an oaken chair drinking from a pewter cup at the moment. But within reach, he (or is it she?) does have some of those bendy straws, and just one of those solid twirly ones with all the loops.

Figures!

A legend in his own wine!

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: TIA
Date: 23 Oct 08 - 10:32 PM

Actually, TIA is quite large, and seated on an oaken chair drinking from a pewter cup at the moment. But within reach, he (or is it she?) does have some of those bendy straws, and just one of those solid twirly ones with all the loops.

Ahhhh.......

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 23 Oct 08 - 10:31 PM

Y'know any tax system--including elimination of all taxes--is somehow redistributing wealth.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 23 Oct 08 - 10:05 PM

Tia, you're small and grasping at straws.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 23 Oct 08 - 05:50 PM

Funny how the target knew exactly who the target was.
Now that was a scalpel (not an axe).

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: PoppaGator
Date: 23 Oct 08 - 02:32 PM

Deja vue:

Early today I responded in another thread to the ridiculous McCain objection to Obama's universal mortgage credit proposal on the basis that it would constitute "welfare" for some imagined human parasites.

Guess I'll have to repeat myself, but more briefly this time:

PEOPLE WITH MORTGAGES ARE WORKING PEOPLE. Even in cases of the laxest and most predatory sub-prime lenders, the home buyer HAS to have had some source of income at the time of closing.

I'm surprised and a little disappointed that the Obama camp felt a need to respond to such an absolute absurdity by "adding a work requirement." Of course, it's a meaningless concession ~ it's not like the situation would EVER arise that such a requirement would have to be invoked.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 23 Oct 08 - 02:05 PM

Welfare n. Satisfactory state, health and prosperity, well-being, maintenance of members of community in such condition, esp, by statutory procedure or social effort... (Concise Oxford Dictionary)

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 23 Oct 08 - 02:00 PM

I think I made the point above, but it seems our resident bigot did not get it.

Socialism is an essentially decent creed in which we collectively care and support for the less able.

Capitalism is an evil one, in which we exploit them.

It is as simple as that.

Socialism is good.
Welfare is good.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 23 Oct 08 - 11:55 AM

"spreading the wealth around"

both parties could take a large proportion of the ridiculous amount of money they are spending on advertizing and 'spread that wealth around", instead of it going into directly into the pockets of those big marketing corporations.

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Amos
Date: 23 Oct 08 - 11:03 AM

WHat a crock.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Sawzaw
Date: 23 Oct 08 - 10:50 AM

Whatever it takes:

Obama Tweaks Tax Plan to Rebut McCain

ABC News

Facing criticism from John McCain that his tax plan constitutes "welfare," Barack Obama recently added a work requirement to one of his proposals.

"They started saying this was welfare," said Obama adviser Austan Goolsbee. "So, just so they would absolutely not be able to say that, we decided that for the last two percent we'll simply add a work requirement."

Goolsbee discussed the change to Obama's universal mortgage credit while debating McCain adviser Douglas Holtz-Eakin at the Council on Foreign Relations on Tuesday.

The purpose of Obama's 10 percent universal mortgage credit is to aid taxpayers who do not itemize when filing taxes. The Obama campaign estimates that it would provide an average of $500 to 10 million homeowners, the majority of whom earn less than $50,000 per year.

Goolsbee referred to the number of non-working Americans who would benefit from the original understanding of Obama's plan as an insignificant "sliver" when compared to the much larger number of working Americans who would benefit from Obama's plan.

Although the number of non-working beneficiaries would have been just a "sliver" under the original understanding of Obama's plan, Goolsbee said the Democratic nominee's economic team decided to add a work requirement to it in order to block McCain from being able to characterize any aspect of his plan as "welfare."

"When did this change? I'm just curious," an incredulous Holtz-Eakin asked Goolsbee.

"About two weeks ago," replied Goolsbee, adding that when the proposal was announced in September 2007, 98 percent of its benefits went to workers.

The work requirement on Obama's universal mortgage credit was never announced publicly, prompting Holtz-Eakin to suggest that it was just made up for purposes of the CFR debate.

"I think they just made it up," Holtz-Eakin told ABC News. "They will say anything in the moment. This is like trying to pin Jello to the wall."

During a Tuesday conference call with reporters, Holtz-Eakin mocked Goolsbee's claim that Obama could have changed his plan two weeks ago in response to McCain attacks that did not start until after Obama met with Joe "The Plumber" Wurzelbacher nine days ago.

"What we saw today was just another example of the Obama campaign being willing to say potentially anything in order to avoid the tough questions of the moment," said Holtz-Eakin............

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 23 Oct 08 - 03:27 AM

From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 22 Oct 08 - 08:11 PM
"First of all, shooting down, and smearing someone *** and calling him names *** , with an opposing side, is no way to gather information, whether or not you agree with him."
Names like "Oblabbo" perhaps?

You mean his name isn't 'Oblabbo'???..Oh my!!!

Once again, you're looking for that old lame axe to grind.

Yes, I meant every word of it.. both times.

Perhaps you can't distinguish between exchanging thoughts and ideas, and....never mind, I don't want to give you the definition, or concept of a thought.....

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: catspaw49
Date: 23 Oct 08 - 12:42 AM

Tell ya' Sawsass, your reputation is deep in the shit simply because you have joined here. Your rep may already have been savaged beyond hope.

See, I was a member of the SDS and the SSOC at the same time as Ayers and am still a card carrying member of that diabloically radical lefty group, the ACLU. Even worse though, I actively protested the friggin' war and did Federal time at Petersburg for refusing induction. How can you afford to be associated with me? You will have to admit to one and all that you consort with radical elements who tried to destroy the lawful government of this country.

Man, you need to get your ass outta' here and claim you never heard of the Mudcat Cafe!

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Ebbie
Date: 22 Oct 08 - 10:33 PM

Sawzall, I'm sure you must have really impressive stuff about Obama somewhere but in the meantime, 'al Quaeda endorses McCain' trumps you. lol

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 22 Oct 08 - 08:11 PM

"First of all, shooting down, and smearing someone *** and calling him names *** , with an opposing side, is no way to gather information, whether or not you agree with him."

Names like "Oblabbo" perhaps?

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 22 Oct 08 - 08:04 PM

... and by the end of next week someone will say their brother-in-law's neighbour saw McCain at a back yard pig roast with some guy who was rumoured to be a member of the KKK.

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 22 Oct 08 - 08:01 PM

By the end of next week I'm sure he'll be labeled a communist.

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 22 Oct 08 - 07:09 PM

Why isn't Obama being denounced for sitting on a board with all those Republicans? I mean if you're looking for people who have really done serious damage to America...