BS: Julian Assange Traitor or hero?

Subject: RE: BS: Julian Assange Traitor or hero?
From: The Sandman
Date: 20 Apr 19 - 09:12 PM

a good man ,like jesus he will be crucified

Subject: RE: BS: Julian Assange Traitor or hero?
From: EBarnacle
Date: 20 Apr 19 - 12:20 PM

To continue my analogy, McGrath, Trump would have to join the human race to be a traitor to it. Especially as he cuts most of it away from his consideration, he is not a member of the group . . . only a small, shrinking, subset.

Subject: RE: BS: Julian Assange Traitor or hero?
From: bobad
Date: 18 Apr 19 - 10:09 PM

Julian Assange not only knew that a murdered Democratic National Committee staffer wasn’t his source for thousands of hacked party emails, he was in active contact with his real sources in Russia’s GRU months after Seth Rich’s death. At the same time he was publicly working to shift blame onto the slain staffer “to obscure the source of the materials he was releasing,” Special Counsel Robert Mueller asserts in his final report on Russia’s role in the 2016 presidential election.

Daily Beast

Subject: RE: BS: Julian Assange Traitor or hero?
From: Iains
Date: 17 Apr 19 - 02:59 PM

Mossback Most of what is posted is opinion, apart from the clarification of post #2 (overlooked by certain of the most recent posts)

Subject: RE: BS: Julian Assange Traitor or hero?
From: Mossback
Date: 17 Apr 19 - 01:37 PM

Note word after .au/

Subject: RE: BS: Julian Assange Traitor or hero?
From: Iains
Date: 17 Apr 19 - 09:59 AM

From Traitor to Patriot:
Sydney Morning Herald January 9, 2017 — 11.51pm

https://www.smh.com.au/opinion/julian-assanges-rapid-rise-on-the-right-20170109-gtoacc.html

Subject: RE: BS: Julian Assange Traitor or hero?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 17 Apr 19 - 08:49 AM

A lot of loud dangerous nutters would accuse many of us of being 'traitors' to our white race...

Subject: RE: BS: Julian Assange Traitor or hero?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 17 Apr 19 - 08:25 AM

"Precisely what one would expect from the OP. Most of the stuff he posts is nuts."
The same nutter thinks the Prime Minister and everybody who doesn't agree with him on Brexit is "a traitor"
A suitable case for treatment, I would suggest
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Julian Assange Traitor or hero?
From: Donuel
Date: 17 Apr 19 - 08:14 AM

I don't care for only being given 2 choices.
Its either genius or moronic propoganda.

Subject: RE: BS: Julian Assange Traitor or hero?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 17 Apr 19 - 08:07 AM

Mind you the term traitor can be used in a wider, more rhetorical sense. It would be reasonable enough to talk about Donald Trump as being a traitor to the human race for his efforts to reverse any efforts to respond to climate change.

Subject: RE: BS: Julian Assange Traitor or hero?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 16 Apr 19 - 10:04 AM

”Who called him a traitor”

Read the thread title, Don!

thats nuts

Precisely what one would expect from the OP. Most of the stuff he posts is nuts.

Subject: RE: BS: Julian Assange Traitor or hero?
From: Donuel
Date: 16 Apr 19 - 09:42 AM

?Who called him a traitor?
thats nuts

I'm saying he not a hero but once upon a time he had good intentions.

people make mistakes

It takes bullies to make martyrs

Subject: RE: BS: Julian Assange Traitor or hero?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 16 Apr 19 - 02:11 AM

Good point E. The word ‘traitor’ Is bandied around too frequently and far too easily nowadays, by people who have no actual understanding of its true meaning. This is especially true of Gammon Right-Wingers.

Subject: RE: BS: Julian Assange Traitor or hero?
From: EBarnacle
Date: 15 Apr 19 - 11:35 PM

Back to the original issue, you cannot be a traitor to a government you have not sworn allegiance to.

Subject: RE: BS: Julian Assange Traitor or hero?
From: Donuel
Date: 15 Apr 19 - 01:26 PM

In a lawsuit the first question is 'whose ox is injured'.
I suspect it is the US and the Democratic party in particlar.

Assange has over rated truth as being a personal preference and always brings light to the darkness.

Where was the truth about Trump?

Assange is not as smart as he thinks he is.

Subject: RE: BS: Julian Assange Traitor or hero?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 15 Apr 19 - 01:12 PM

And being a criminal offence means he faces severe punishment for it from the American authorities - and that's just why he shouldn't be handed over. We all have a duty to break the law in certain circumstances. In cases where the lawbreaking is justified it should not be regarded as criminal. But I'd not trust that court to accept that in this case.

Subject: RE: BS: Julian Assange Traitor or hero?
From: Mossback
Date: 15 Apr 19 - 12:46 PM

Hacking into classified government computers is a criminal offense.

So are war crimes, bo, me boy, and a much more serious one.

Subject: RE: BS: Julian Assange Traitor or hero?
From: Donuel
Date: 15 Apr 19 - 12:41 PM

The New Yorker has an annonymus hotline for whistle blower data.
Wikileaks does too.
But the moment they help to steal data it is not accepting journalism information, it becomes a possible theft.

Assange is a professional rebel. He is proud with that.
He clearly went stir crazy over 7 years. So would you but probably in different ways.

Subject: RE: BS: Julian Assange Traitor or hero?
From: bobad
Date: 15 Apr 19 - 12:24 PM

Hacking into classified government computers is a criminal offense.

Subject: RE: BS: Julian Assange Traitor or hero?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 15 Apr 19 - 08:38 AM

Any criticisms Assange might justly be open to have nothing to do with what the American authorities are planning to get him for, if he gets handed over to their tender care - acting in such a way as to reveal to the world, and to the American public, War Crimes carried out by the American armed forces.

Subject: RE: BS: Julian Assange Traitor or hero?
From: EBarnacle
Date: 14 Apr 19 - 11:22 PM

Go WNYC.org and bring up today's "on the media." It gives an interesting analysis of whether he is a journalist or just a reposter.
Personally, I do not see him as a slightly more sophisticated version of Agent Orange, in that he makes no effort to contextualize the information he dumps on the world. Just another compliant fool working in Putin's arena. It would appear that he is/was another "gotcha" guy.

Subject: RE: BS: Julian Assange Traitor or hero?
From: Iains
Date: 14 Apr 19 - 06:59 AM

I wonder how many of the stories about his time within the embassy are actually true? Or were they part of a softening up process to wittle away his support. I wonder to what extent those rape charges were true?
Originally it was a request he submit to testing for STD's. This suddenly escalated to rape charges. How much deep state influence was involved in that process one may ask?
Like so many things it is a serious game of smoke and mirrors, rabbit holes galore, to trap the unwary.
It shows remarkable affiliation to:
The horror tales of brexit
Russian intereferance in the Presidential elections.
The constant negative references to populism
(It could be it is simply popular and does not fit with the agenda of the elite!)

There are many here who fall for it every time- hook, line and sinker!

Subject: RE: BS: Julian Assange Traitor or hero?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 13 Apr 19 - 06:59 PM

It looked like the authorities had captured a gnome...

Subject: RE: BS: Julian Assange Traitor or hero?
From: robomatic
Date: 13 Apr 19 - 06:33 PM

I wonder if he has been impaired in any way by the long years in isolation.
Maybe it is the immediate happenings about him but he did not look in good order in the popularly shown footage of being taken into custody.

Subject: RE: BS: Julian Assange Traitor or hero?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 13 Apr 19 - 12:39 PM

It seems right that the allegations about sexual abuse or rape should be cleared up, and that would justify him being handed over to the Swedish justice system.

But the threat of trial in America in connection with whistle blowing is a very different matter. He is accused of helping Chelsea Manning to expose actions by the American armed services amounting to war crimes. If he is guilty of this, rather than punishment he deserves a medal.

The threat of being handed over to the Americans were the reason he fled to the Ecuador embassy for those long years. He feared that the Swedish or British authorities would do this if he stayed within their reach. So far as the British authorities that threat is greater than ever, especially if we are cosying up to them in hope of a favourable trade deal post Brexit. I'd think he might be better to put his trust in Sweden, and in the EU.

Whatever happens his years of self imposed imprisonment in the Ecuador embassy should be treated as "time served" if it comes to any sentence imposed on him.

Subject: RE: BS: Julian Assange Traitor or hero?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 13 Apr 19 - 12:24 PM

Perhaps if he was sent to America, Trump would offer him a job on his team...???

Subject: RE: BS: Julian Assange Traitor or hero?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 13 Apr 19 - 11:13 AM

" he has played a large part as a journalist in exposing American wrongdoing."
My point entirely
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: Julian Assange Traitor or hero?
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 13 Apr 19 - 04:03 AM

If there is a plausible case that he is guilty of rape, he should be tried for that. But no way should he be handed over to the USA, he has played a large part as a journalist in exposing American wrongdoing.

Subject: RE: BS: Julian Assange Traitor or hero?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 13 Apr 19 - 03:40 AM

Hmmmmm....an Unholy Alliance?

And now we have The Nicotine-Stained Frog forming a new Party to help him in his poisonous plot.

Seems like Billy Shakespeare was right, but it’s not just in the State of Denmark where ‘something is rotten’.

Subject: RE: BS: Julian Assange Traitor or hero?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 13 Apr 19 - 02:55 AM

"Reading comprehension, Jim - your sarcasm makes no sense"
Sorry if that's how it came across - it was no more than a (feeble maybe) attempt at humour
I have no idea how Assange 'helped Trump to get to the White House' - if he did - my instincts are that if people like Bobad says he did he probably didn't
The latest sharp swing to the extreme right - Brexit, Trump, the rise of European neo-fascism, a sharp spike in racist incidents.... have been brought about by substituting basic prejudices for real information - scapegoat politics of the worst kind
'Democracy' of the watered down type we have lived under for so long, has relied on the voter believing what they are told - now the establishment appears to be running out of excuses and is trying a new tack
I know nothing whatever about Assange as a an individual and I don't particularly want to - he provided information that we needed to have and the fact that the establishment accused him of being a "traitor" is enough for me to believe he struck a raw nerve.

The State has always have had a way of dealing with uncomfortable information leaks - security being the favourite
The U.S. is as 'insecure' as it has ever been with an inarticulate moron with his finger on the red button.
Britain played the Populist card and now no longer has a Governing body that can agree on the most important decision it has ever taken

When Assange let the cat out of the bag, within a year a casual accusation of passing on a sexual infection turned into a rape charge
Ireland has just gotten over a case where an honest policeman blew the whistle on police corruption - shortly after making his case he was facing accusations of interfering with children... later proved to be totally unfounded
How far do you want to go back.... ?
When one of Ireland's great national liberation heroes caught the people's imagination and was executed, his memory was besmeared because he was a homosexual

Some countries have a far cruder way of dealing with whistle-blowers - in the case of my particular hero, seventeen years in solitary confinement was their punishment for telling the world that an unstable right-wing state indulging in driving out the legal occupants of their lands had become nuclear-capable

Please don't get bogged down in meaningless discussions on what these people might be in their private lives - it's what they did which makes them important
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Julian Assange Traitor or hero?
From: robomatic
Date: 12 Apr 19 - 11:14 PM

Way way back I read a New Yorker article on Assange that gave a rounded assessment, which cast him as somewhat heroic in his own mind, somewhat gadflyish in real life, but important in his ability to organize and assimilate information on the internet.

Most recent New Yorker comment.

Personally I think he has too high an opinion of himself to properly vet his own work, but he is also reacting to severe political barbs aimed at him. Putin is properly sending him kitty treats. I think his rise is a sign of the times and contributes to letting us know we have to pay attention to sources and not trusting nobody with an axe to grind.

Also kinda ironic to be an early casualty of the Swedish "Jag också" movement. A little hygiene in bed goes a long way.

I think a little humiliation will be good for his soul, like I really care about his soul. I DON'T know how putting him away for a lot of time can be justified, other than his Swedish problems. But then, the President of the U.S. has a similar track record with both info and flickas, and he hasn't been indicted.

Subject: RE: BS: Julian Assange Traitor or hero?
From: Vashta Nerada
Date: 12 Apr 19 - 11:14 PM

https://www.newstatesman.com/2019/04/wikileaks-was-future-once-then-it-became-julian-assange

"Indeed, if you have been watching him as long as I have, it’s all there in the early blogs he wrote as a teenager. An incredible intelligence, an understanding of systems, a denial of individual feeling – and a messiah complex. It’s all a bit pre-Incel. The judge yesterday called him a narcissist as he sat and read Gore Vidal in court. Ever the rebel without a hard drive."

Subject: RE: BS: Julian Assange Traitor or hero?
From: meself
Date: 12 Apr 19 - 07:52 PM

"Sometimes that's going to help one side, sometimes it's going to help the other.
That's actually the principle that distinguishes ethical journalism from propaganda."

And, to my understanding, that's where Assange slipped into "propaganda". He seems to have released info. detrimental to Hillary, and sat on info. detrimental to trump.

Btw, I don't claim to have all the goods on this; I've just picked up a bit here and there from the news.

Subject: RE: BS: Julian Assange Traitor or hero?
From: bobad
Date: 12 Apr 19 - 06:36 PM

View from The Atlantic:

In the end, the man who reportedly smeared feces on the walls of his lodgings, mistreated his kitten, and variously blamed the ills of the world on feminists and bespectacled Jewish writers was pulled from the Ecuadorian embassy looking every inch like a powdered-sugar Saddam Hussein plucked straight from his spider hole. The only camera crew to record this pivotal event belonged to Ruptly, a Berlin-based streaming-online-video service, which is a wholly owned subsidiary of RT, the Russian government’s English-language news channel and the former distributor of Julian Assange’s short-lived chat show.

Julian Assange Got What He Deserved

Subject: RE: BS: Julian Assange Traitor or hero?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 12 Apr 19 - 05:35 PM

As I understand the guiding principle is, information that powerful people are trying to keep secret should be out in public view. Not about taking sides. "Tell the truth and shame the devil".

Sometimes that's going to help one side, sometimes it's going to help the other.
That's actually the principle that distinguishes ethical journalism from propaganda.

The odd thing about the Swedish sex case that I've never seen explained is why he appears to have believed that the Swedish authorities were more likely than the British to cooperate with the Americans, when it came to deporting him to America to get punished for enabling Manning to expose criminal activities by US armed forces.

Whatever he may have done I'd think that his self imposed imprisonment in that embassy for nine years more than covers it, and should be treated by any court as "time served".

Subject: RE: BS: Julian Assange Traitor or hero?
From: bobad
Date: 12 Apr 19 - 05:07 PM

I had some admiration of him until he became Putin's useful idiot and helped Trump get elected. Now I could care less what happens to him.

Subject: RE: BS: Julian Assange Traitor or hero?
From: Donuel
Date: 12 Apr 19 - 04:23 PM

Although Assange is smarter than dictator Trump he was/is none the less a useful Idiot for the Russians

Subject: RE: BS: Julian Assange Traitor or hero?
From: Acorn4
Date: 12 Apr 19 - 04:20 PM

BBC News, The Daily Mail, The Guardian, Sky News -most mainstream media - all distort, skew, select, take out of context, lie according to the agenda of their paymasters. No action.

Wikileaks gave us the truth. A criminal offence.

Subject: RE: BS: Julian Assange Traitor or hero?
From: Thompson
Date: 12 Apr 19 - 04:04 PM

He looked very unwell in the photos of his arrest. And many years older than those seven years would warrant.

Subject: RE: BS: Julian Assange Traitor or hero?
From: meself
Date: 12 Apr 19 - 02:20 PM

Reading comprehension, Jim - your sarcasm makes no sense. Perhaps you need it explained: getting trump into the White House means getting him elected president. He was not "in the White House" before that.

As for Assange's role, Rachel can get the idea across: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXNHtg_UUo8

Subject: RE: BS: Julian Assange Traitor or hero?
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 12 Apr 19 - 01:24 PM

Do they already have Stannah Stairlifts for elderly presidents in the whitehouse...???

Subject: RE: BS: Julian Assange Traitor or hero?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 12 Apr 19 - 01:21 PM

" but he certainly seemed to be giving trump a lot of help to get into the White House"
How (As if Trump needed help, especially as he's already there) ?
Maybe he carries him up the stairs after a night on the ladies !!
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Julian Assange Traitor or hero?
From: meself
Date: 12 Apr 19 - 12:14 PM

And civilization in general, I might add!

Subject: RE: BS: Julian Assange Traitor or hero?
From: meself
Date: 12 Apr 19 - 12:13 PM

Nothing to do with what he's charged with - but he certainly seemed to be giving trump a lot of help to get into the White House - which makes him an enemy of the US, doesn't it?

Subject: RE: BS: Julian Assange Traitor or hero?
From: Iains
Date: 12 Apr 19 - 11:10 AM

Because this moron is a vicious troll doesn't mean I'm going to be excluded from discussing this subject - if we have to put up with him, expose him for the extremist he is by using his own idiocy
Otherwise he will continue to use this forum as a platform for his extremist hate

Says he who claims repeatedly he insults no one!

Good to see the usual culprits trolling on yet another thread.

Now how about discussing Assange.

If I wanted a thread discussing me I would be conceited enough to open one.

Subject: RE: BS: Julian Assange Traitor or hero?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 12 Apr 19 - 10:34 AM

Or maybe even a Wikileak
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: Julian Assange Traitor or hero?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 12 Apr 19 - 10:32 AM

"Assange should be made to face the sexual assault allegations in Sweden and, if needs be, face the consequences."
Interesting timeline here

“Assange founded WikiLeaks in 2006 and came to international attention in 2010 when WikiLeaks published a series of leaks provided by Chelsea Manning (then known as Bradley Manning). These leaks included the Collateral Murder video (April 2010),[3][4] the Afghanistan war logs (July 2010), the Iraq war logs (October 2010), and CableGate (November 2010). Following the 2010 leaks, the federal government of the United States launched a criminal investigation into WikiLeaks and asked allied nations for assistance”

“On 20 August 2010, two women, a 26-year-old living in Enköping and a 31-year-old living in Stockholm,[4][5] jointly went to the Swedish police not seeking to bring charges against Assange but in order to track him down and persuade him to be tested for sexually transmitted diseases after their separate sexual encounters with him.[6] The police told them that they could not simply tell Assange to take a test, but that their statements would be passed to the prosecutor.[7] Later that day, the duty prosecutor ordered the arrest of Julian Assange on the suspicion of rape and molestation.[8]”

“The proceedings began in 2012 and on 12 August 2015, Swedish prosecutors announced that they would drop their investigation into three of the allegations against Assange, because of the expiration of the statute of limitations. The investigation into the allegation of rape, as of 19 May 2017, has been dropped by Swedish authorities”

Is it my imagination or does this real like a Len Deighton novel ?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Julian Assange Traitor or hero?
From: Donuel
Date: 12 Apr 19 - 09:14 AM

Vanunu is hero, Sununu was a traitor

Subject: RE: BS: Julian Assange Traitor or hero?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Apr 19 - 09:09 AM

Assange should be made to face the sexual assault allegations in Sweden and, if needs be, face the consequences. But he must not be extradited to the US. What the yanks want him for (essentially, for embarrassing the country by revealing some of its dirty secrets) has nothing to do with the sexual assault allegations.

Subject: RE: BS: Julian Assange Traitor or hero?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 12 Apr 19 - 08:56 AM

I've made my point and am satisfied enough not to take it any further
Prolonging it seems to do just that
I don't believe just ignoring them makes them go away - it hasn't so far
Jim