BS: Arizona law on detaining illegal aliens

Subject: RE: BS: Arizona law on detaining illegal aliens
From: pdq
Date: 24 Jul 10 - 12:47 PM

It doesn't really matter what the federal laws say.

What matters is how the executive branch chooses to enforce the laws.

Here is a bill that was passed since the disasterous 1986 amnesty bill...


The Illegal Immigration Reform and Immigrant Responsibility Act of 1996, Pub.L. 104-208, Div. C, 110 Stat. 3009-546 (often referred to as "i-RAI-ruh" by federal appellate law clerks, and sometimes abbreviated to IIRIRA) vastly changed the immigration laws of the United States. In 1996 the Illegal Immigration Reform and Responsibility Act (IIRAIRA 96) was passed and signed by President Bill Clinton. Title III of this new act created the notion of "unlawfully present" persons; specifically, the three-year, ten-year, and permanent bars were formed.

This act states that if an immigrant has been unlawfully present in the United States for 180 days but less than 365 days he or she must remain outside the United States for three years unless the person obtains a pardon. If the person has been in the United States for 365 days or more, he or she must stay outside the United States for ten years unless he or she obtains a pardon. If the person returns to the United States without the pardon, the person cannot apply for a waiver for a period of ten years. This is the permanent bar.

Constitutional issues within the law

Previously, immediate deportation was triggered only for offenses that could lead to five years or more in jail. Under the Act, minor offenses such as shoplifting, may make an individual eligible for deportation. When IIRIRA was passed in 1996, it was applied retroactively to all those convicted of deportable offenses.

However, in 2001, the U.S. Supreme Court decided that Congress did not intend IIRIRA to be applied retroactively to those who pleaded guilty to a crime prior to the enactment of IIRIRA, if that person would not have been deportable at the time that he pleaded guilty. (INS v. St. Cyr).

In an effort to curb illegal immigration, Congress voted to double the U.S. Border Patrol to 10,000 agents over five years and mandated the construction of fences at the most heavily trafficked areas of the U.S.-Mexico border. Congress also approved a pilot program to check the immigration status of job applicants.

IIRIRA's mandatory detention provisions have also been repeatedly challenged, with less success.

Deportation issues

Deportees may be held in jail for months, even as much as two years, before being brought before an immigration board, at which defendants need to pay for their own legal representation. In 2001, the Supreme Court curtailed the Immigration Service's ability to hold deportees indefinitely. (Zadvydas v. Davis)

Relations between federal and lower levels of government

IIRIRA addressed the relationship between the federal government and local governments. Section 287(g) is a program of the act that deputizes state and local law enforcement personnel to enforce immigration matters. This provision was implemented by local and state authorities in five states, California, Arizona, Alabama, Florida and North Carolina by the end of 2006.

Subject: RE: BS: Arizona law on detaining illegal aliens
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 24 Jul 10 - 11:28 AM

Bobert: "If it's an American issue, GfSer, then why is it that it is being pushed soley by the Tea Party and FOX un-news???"

I can't speak for the 'Tea Party', being as I see them as a predictable backlash to what the government has become...that being said, I'm sure that they too, have elements in them that will co-opt them into something else. As far as Fox News, sometimes they report things that the other biased media omits..even though they have their slants and biases too.
   When I listen to the 'news', I listen to more than Fox. Most of the time the news reports a cover story...to provide just that COVER! Usually they provide a 'red cape', as a matador holds a red cape, so the bull goes after the cape....INSTEAD OF THE MATADOR!!
   Frankly, I get a lot of news online, PBS, NPR, and some other sources, that I've developed, who I've been astounded at their accuracy, and 'inside' access.
   To blame everything on Fox or the Tea Party, then disregard them entirely, is like throwing out the baby with the bath water. Even a broken clock is right, twice a day!
   I find NBC, and MSNBC are so watered down and biased, its a waste of time watching or listening to them, without then going to Fox, and finding out another side to the same story...which also turns out to be incomplete!..but, its still more of the same story.
   We from Sanity-Land, have a 'smell test', the lets us know when something is bullshit or not, on the news...and YES, you can count on the fact, that the REAL news, that we should all be getting, that affects our lives, is NOT going to be reported on the 'infotainment' networks.
   Getting back to the 'Tea Party'.....I think they were/are a backlash to the Obama administration, just as the Obama Administration was a backlash, to the prior administration/S, bullshit, that we've grown so painfully accustomed to.
   That being said, career politicians, are going to represent those who are their bread and butter. IT SHOULD BE US!....but sadly, it is those who pay them more to vote whichever way their money backers want them to...and that entails bribes(call it any other name that you want)...and that is illegal!....even in private life!...Why not hold these evil clowns accountable??!!?? The 'NEWS' is just the propaganda cover stories, that allow them to continue this treasonous behavior!
   Anymore, if a politician does not hold to strict adherence to the oaths they take, throw them out and into prison!...You have a government salary of up to $200,000 a year, versus millions paid out for a swing vote on a certain issue, which benefits the payer of that money. Which do you think gets the representation??..the one with the ideological idealism?????
   In my humble opinion(as if my opinions are humble--wink), its time to clean house!!...and rely on the rule of law set forth by the form of government we a suppose to have...not what it has come to, through corrupt opportunistic bullshit artists!...IT'S NOT A MATTER OF PARTY POLITICS! The difference being spouted by both sides, is just the 'reason' they hide behind. They DO NOT give a rat's ass about those issues, as they would like their supporters to believe. It is deception on a mass scale!...and it is wrong, it is corrupt, it is treasonous, it is illegal...and it is evil!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Arizona law on detaining illegal aliens
From: Bobert
Date: 24 Jul 10 - 10:31 AM

If it's an American issue, GfSer, then why is it that it is being pushed soley by the Tea Party and FOX un-news???

Subject: RE: BS: Arizona law on detaining illegal aliens
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 24 Jul 10 - 09:46 AM

On quite a few of my posts, I've pointed out that SEVERAL administrations, of BOTH parties have been screwed up..corrupt or working hidden agendas. This is not a partisan issue, but rather an American issue, and for whatever reason either party's agenda, they are not following the law, nor enforcing the law, nor representing US- You and me..."We the people" and our Constitution, for which they swore to uphold,........but they sure want you to pay your taxes!!!!!!!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Arizona law on detaining illegal aliens
From: GUEST,Riginslinger
Date: 24 Jul 10 - 08:53 AM

I would agree that the immigration laws should have been enforced right after they were enacted in 1986. The point is, they weren't.

                Runaway illegal immigration isn't a problem right now in Minnesota--though it will be--but it's a huge problem in Arizona. Which is why that state enacted the local law they did.

                If Arizona can protect itself against this onslaught, the illegals will start going somewhere else. Wherever they go will end up with the same problems Arizona has now. Which is why 9 other states have joined with Arizona to try to put this law into action.

Subject: RE: BS: Arizona law on detaining illegal aliens
From: Bobert
Date: 24 Jul 10 - 07:28 AM

Yer right, Eb...

If you listened strictly to the righties ypou'd think that the border crossings are at a all time high and creating a war zone with criminal elements... This is FALSE... The crossings are way, way down and the crime is, as well... I mean, I could see the right making a stink about it maybe in the late 90s ot early00s but they were happy to have the cheap labor...

That is way for the right to be making such a stink about this now is not only hypocritical but smacks of partisan politics...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Arizona law on detaining illegal aliens
From: GUEST,Riginslinger
Date: 24 Jul 10 - 07:22 AM

"What did previous presidents do about illegal immigration?"


             Nothing! Absolutely nothing. Ronald Reagan signed the current law into existence in 1986 and never enforced it. That's why we have so many illegal aliens in the country now. He didn't enforce it, Bush Sr. didn't enforce it, Clinton didn't enforce it, Bush Jr. didn't enforce it, and now it's way behond the breaking point.

Subject: RE: BS: Arizona law on detaining illegal aliens
From: GUEST,Riginslinger
Date: 24 Jul 10 - 07:17 AM

"We don't need this particular law to do that. We just need to enforce the laws we already have."

         Exactly, Mouse, but nobody is doing it. That's why it is important for the Arizona law to stand, so at least Arizona can enforce the law in Arizona.

Subject: RE: BS: Arizona law on detaining illegal aliens
From: Ebbie
Date: 24 Jul 10 - 03:00 AM

Tom Tancredo is so far off base that he will not be taken seriously by ANYONE who is not certifiably insane.

I read a couple hundred of the Comments following his article and I have just one question: What did previous presidents do about illegal immigration?

Don't try to say that this is a new development - we know better. So just why are the unbalanced bloggers calling for impeachment on the basis that this president has not secured the border?

Subject: RE: BS: Arizona law on detaining illegal aliens
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 24 Jul 10 - 12:34 AM

Today's News

Subject: RE: BS: Arizona law on detaining illegal aliens
From: mousethief
Date: 23 Jul 10 - 03:38 PM

Well, mouse, I would do more of what is just starting to happen. Prosecute employers and throw them in jail. Fine them heavily and take their ill-gotten gains away. The problem will solve itself.

We don't need this particular law to do that. We just need to enforce the laws we already have.

Subject: RE: BS: Arizona law on detaining illegal aliens
From: GUEST,Riginslinger
Date: 22 Jul 10 - 11:50 PM

Well, mouse, I would do more of what is just starting to happen. Prosecute employers and throw them in jail. Fine them heavily and take their ill-gotten gains away. The problem will solve itself.

Subject: RE: BS: Arizona law on detaining illegal aliens
From: mousethief
Date: 22 Jul 10 - 10:25 PM

There are more border patrol persons on the job right now on the Mexican border than EVER BEFORE in the HISTORY of the UNITED STATES. What more would you like to have done? Be specific. I mean other than pulling over people for driving while brown, which is what this new Arizona law is about. Leaving that out, what would you like to have done that isn't being done now? Specifics.

Subject: RE: BS: Arizona law on detaining illegal aliens
From: Bobert
Date: 22 Jul 10 - 09:36 PM

Okay, Rigs... That is about as straight forward as you can put it...

I want immigration reform and if you polled the rest of America I think you'd find yerself in a little right winged fringe minority...

You didn't used to be this way...

Welcome to Tea Party/Redneck Nation...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Arizona law on detaining illegal aliens
From: GUEST,Riginslinger
Date: 22 Jul 10 - 09:19 PM

I don't want immigration reform. That's what we had in 1986, now it's time to get around to enforcing it. And that's all the Arizona law does.

Subject: RE: BS: Arizona law on detaining illegal aliens
From: Bobert
Date: 22 Jul 10 - 08:17 PM

What's racist is supporting a bogus law that was passed for purely politicval reason... That, my friend, is racism...

If you want immigration reform then tell yer Repub buddies in Congress to quit fightin' it and to put forth what they want to see in such legislation...

This is nothin' but grandstanding by Arizone Repubs for the November elction... That is the real deal here...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Arizona law on detaining illegal aliens
From: Riginslinger
Date: 22 Jul 10 - 07:45 PM

There's nothing racist about wanting to enforce the immigration laws. Although, the way the word has come to be used being called a racist is no more offensive than being called an optimist or a bicyclist.

Subject: RE: BS: Arizona law on detaining illegal aliens
From: Bobert
Date: 22 Jul 10 - 06:19 PM

No wonder Azizi left this joint... There is some serious racism going on here... And it ain't on the mouser/Bobert side of the isle...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Arizona law on detaining illegal aliens
From: mousethief
Date: 22 Jul 10 - 05:55 PM

It sounds like this Dobson character has been out in the Arizona sun too long.

Interesting how the police are so wonderful and we need to support them wholeheartedly, until they disagree with our racist laws. Then they've been out in the sun too long.

Subject: RE: BS: Arizona law on detaining illegal aliens
From: Riginslinger
Date: 22 Jul 10 - 05:19 PM

It sounds like this Dobson character has been out in the Arizona sun too long.

Subject: RE: BS: Arizona law on detaining illegal aliens
From: katlaughing
Date: 22 Jul 10 - 04:10 PM

Getting back to the AZ law, I just got this update:

Brave New Foundation's Cuéntame, has made major headlines this week for its video interview with Arizona Police Officer Paul Dobson speaking out about draconian Arizona anti-immigration bill, SB1070. Officer Dobson is now under investigation for exercising his first amendment right to speak freely about the real effects of the law:

"I know people will not call the police in case of a real emergency. This law is purely racist and solely focused on Latinos. In my opinion, SB 1070 violates equal protection under the law." Paul Dobson, Patrol Officer, Arizona.

Subject: RE: BS: Arizona law on detaining illegal aliens
From: GUEST,Riginslinger
Date: 16 Jun 10 - 08:07 AM

Like I said earlier, hopeless.

Subject: RE: BS: Arizona law on detaining illegal aliens
From: mousethief
Date: 16 Jun 10 - 12:53 AM

They're fuckin' like bunnies, eh?

Maybe you haven't noticed but when people get better off, and particularly with the more education they get, the fewer kids they have. My boss at my previous job was a 2nd generation Mexican-American. His parents spoke Spanish at home, but he doesn't speak a word of it, and has only 2 kids and only plans to have 2 kids. Your racist idea that Mexicans are more fecund than northern Europeans (or whatever you think "we" are) is stupid. Or maybe you think it's because they're Catholic. Here's a clue: even if Mexico reaches "saturation" (whatever that is), they'll still be Catholic. If they move here and rub elbows with the Protestants, Jews, Atheists, and the occasional Baha'i, they're far less likely to remain Catholic.

Yep, no doubt about it. The way to keep a Mexican family from multiplying like bunnies is to move them to America.

Subject: RE: BS: Arizona law on detaining illegal aliens
From: Riginslinger
Date: 15 Jun 10 - 05:27 PM

You're missing the point, mouse. If you just confined them to Mexico--at least until they brought their birthrate under control--they'd finally reach a saturation point, and you wouldn't have any additional population growth. If you let them migrate, everyplace will reach a saturation point.

Subject: RE: BS: Arizona law on detaining illegal aliens
From: mousethief
Date: 15 Jun 10 - 12:31 AM

Central America, by the way, is not a continent. It is part of North America. It is primarily a political construct: those nations of North America south of Mexico. If Mexico annexed all of what we call Central America, the term would cease to have meaning. We wouldn't say all of Mexico south of its current southern frontier is "Central America." We wouldn't say "Central America" at all.

Subject: RE: BS: Arizona law on detaining illegal aliens
From: mousethief
Date: 15 Jun 10 - 12:30 AM

It's hopeless to pursue a conversation where people aren't using words the same way.

Subject: RE: BS: Arizona law on detaining illegal aliens
From: Ron Davies
Date: 14 Jun 10 - 11:46 PM

Bingo, Rig. It is hopeless.

And the top reason is the voices in your head. Attempting rational discussion with you is a black hole of time.

Subject: RE: BS: Arizona law on detaining illegal aliens
From: GUEST,Riginslinger
Date: 14 Jun 10 - 11:35 PM

I see now why pursuing a discussion like this is so hopeless.

Subject: RE: BS: Arizona law on detaining illegal aliens
From: artbrooks
Date: 14 Jun 10 - 11:03 PM

Rig, Mexico is in North America. The US is in North America. The population of North America doesn't change even a little bit if a person or a million people move from one to the other.

Subject: RE: BS: Arizona law on detaining illegal aliens
From: GUEST,Riginslinger
Date: 14 Jun 10 - 10:00 PM

"I think you mean America consumed by humanity and destroyed. Mexicans moving to the United States doesn't change the population density of North America at all."

                It's time to take off the dunce cap, mouse. I've said many times that I would be much less concerned if the population of Central America went down each time one of their immigrants came here. That's obviously not what happens, however, so the population of North America goes up with each immigrant that comes.

Subject: RE: BS: Arizona law on detaining illegal aliens
From: mousethief
Date: 14 Jun 10 - 07:48 PM

I can assume then, you want to see North America consumed by humanity and destroyed.

I think you mean America consumed by humanity and destroyed. Mexicans moving to the United States doesn't change the population density of North America at all. So changing US immigration laws to allow more Mexicans in, or changing --or not-- the 14th amendment's birth citizenship provision, will not further or retard the consumption and destruction of North America.

But we already know you are paranoid an irrational about population growth; that's a given. Will letting lots of people into the United States destroy it? In Wikipedia's list of 230 countries and dependencies ranked by population density, the United States clocks in at 178. More than half the countries in the world have a greater population density than we do. Countries like the Netherlands, Japan, the UK, Germany, Italy, Denmark, Poland, Portugal.... None of which as far as I know are being destroyed by humanity.

The US's population density (people per square km) is about 83. For comparison, Germany is about 230. Italy, 200. UK, 255. (Mexico, FWIW, is about 55.)

The sky is not falling, Chicken Little.

Subject: RE: BS: Arizona law on detaining illegal aliens
From: Riginslinger
Date: 14 Jun 10 - 05:41 PM

And your point is?

Subject: RE: BS: Arizona law on detaining illegal aliens
From: artbrooks
Date: 14 Jun 10 - 04:27 PM

And here I thought that you were concerned about Mexicans...who also live in North American, last time I looked.

Subject: RE: BS: Arizona law on detaining illegal aliens
From: Riginslinger
Date: 14 Jun 10 - 01:24 PM

I can assume then, you want to see North America consumed by humanity and destroyed.

Subject: RE: BS: Arizona law on detaining illegal aliens
From: mousethief
Date: 14 Jun 10 - 01:02 PM

A man can dream, I guess. I, of course, hope you're wrong.

Subject: RE: BS: Arizona law on detaining illegal aliens
From: GUEST,Riginslinger
Date: 14 Jun 10 - 07:52 AM

Actually, thief, I expect it will be, and that will be the beginning of a movement to finally put an end to this insanity.

Subject: RE: BS: Arizona law on detaining illegal aliens
From: mousethief
Date: 14 Jun 10 - 03:14 AM

And then soon (as these things go) struck down as unconstitutional. Ho hum.

Subject: RE: BS: Arizona law on detaining illegal aliens
From: GUEST,Riginslinger
Date: 13 Jun 10 - 03:40 PM

In any event, the legislation on birthright citizenship should be out soon.

Subject: RE: BS: Arizona law on detaining illegal aliens
From: GUEST,Riginslinger
Date: 12 Jun 10 - 01:23 PM

And it's our civil rights that matter.

Subject: RE: BS: Arizona law on detaining illegal aliens
From: mousethief
Date: 12 Jun 10 - 01:11 PM

And maybe get some of our civil rights back.

"Intended"? There's a slippery eel.

Subject: RE: BS: Arizona law on detaining illegal aliens
From: pdq
Date: 12 Jun 10 - 01:00 PM

"SCOTUS can't demand changes in the constitution. Their job is to interpret the constitution, not change it." ~ mouse

True enough, but they change the Constitution by changing the interpretation of the Constitution.

One example is the right to private ownership of guns. All the Founding Fathers owned guns and their written works show that the Second Amendment intended private gun ownership, but many recent vocal members of SCOTUS have said "no", it applies only to a malitia.

We may see the "new" interpretation soon, if Obama gets to name a couple more SCOTUS members.

Subject: RE: BS: Arizona law on detaining illegal aliens
From: GUEST,Riginslinger
Date: 12 Jun 10 - 12:58 PM

You're splitting hairs, mouse. If the Supreme Court sides with the people who want to continue "birthright citizenship," the burden of changing it falls upon those who wish to change it. The decision will indicate that to be the case without the court telling them anything.

Subject: RE: BS: Arizona law on detaining illegal aliens
From: mousethief
Date: 12 Jun 10 - 12:44 PM

Um, no, SCOTUS can't demand changes in the constitution. Their job is to interpret the constitution, not change it. Read it sometime, it tells all about it.

Subject: RE: BS: Arizona law on detaining illegal aliens
From: GUEST,Riginslinger
Date: 12 Jun 10 - 12:41 PM

"...such a bill... will go directly to the US Supreme Court and put the whole issue of "birthright citizenship" to bed."


            And that's what the proponents are looking for. The Supreme Court will either decide in their favor, or tell them to change the 14th amendment, which they will promptly do...

Subject: RE: BS: Arizona law on detaining illegal aliens
From: mousethief
Date: 12 Jun 10 - 11:19 AM

Will Arizona also make guns illegal, and religion, and public gathering?

Subject: RE: BS: Arizona law on detaining illegal aliens
From: artbrooks
Date: 12 Jun 10 - 10:01 AM

That may be a good thing. Since such a bill clearly violates the plain language of Section 1 of the Fourteenth Amendment, it will go directly to the US Supreme Court and put the whole issue of "birthright citizenship" to bed.

Subject: RE: BS: Arizona law on detaining illegal aliens
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 12 Jun 10 - 12:18 AM

I'm glad to see the dialogue has shifted, into doing things legally! Whether or not you agree with our laws or not, they are our laws! If immigrants did things legally, employers would find it harder to exploit them, political parties wouldn't be so inclined to wrongly load the electorate, they could go to and fro, to visit their families, taxes might get paid, the playing field would not discriminate against U.S. citizens, or Mexican(or any other), there might be some distancing away from those who do things legally, and other illegal activities...on BOTH sides of the border, and people tend to protect and or defend that which causes no threat to them! ...nor would they be prone to have animosity, and think, "I'll rip em' off, fuck 'em"

Keep going!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Arizona law on detaining illegal aliens
From: artbrooks
Date: 11 Jun 10 - 11:34 PM

So some kid is born in the US to parents who are here as students, workers or whatever. His parents take him back home when they go. Why should he even care if he is legally a US citizen? Is this somehow special to a Panamanian, a German or a Thai?

If you feel that is an issue, get your senator or representative to cosponsor Nathan Deal's birthright citizenship bill. Of course, it has never gotten out of committee and it has zero chance of passage if it ever did.

Subject: RE: BS: Arizona law on detaining illegal aliens
From: GUEST,Riginslinger
Date: 11 Jun 10 - 11:30 PM

It's weird about them cookies--I need to contact the Girl Scouts.

Subject: RE: BS: Arizona law on detaining illegal aliens
From: artbrooks
Date: 11 Jun 10 - 08:06 PM

Not even that is necessary, Ron. A greatly expanded "guest worker" program, with legal protections including entitlement to minimum wage, employer-paid health insurance and the right to complain to the DOL, a renewable term, eligibility to receive earned Social Security benefits, etc. would solve the problem quickly and easily. Most migrants don't want to stay in the US. This isn't home; their culture and families are elsewhere.