BS: Romanians flee Belfast homes after attack

Subject: RE: BS: Romanians flee homes after attack
From: robomatic
Date: 18 Jun 09 - 04:34 PM

Forgive the ignorance, please, but are the Roma in any way related to Tinkers.

I bicycled across Ireland some years ago and recall the Tinker camps.

Subject: RE: BS: Romanians flee homes after attack
From: Sorcha
Date: 18 Jun 09 - 03:58 PM

So, bubblyrat, this means ALL the Rom are 'nasty' people? I beg to differ.

Subject: RE: BS: Romanians flee homes after attack
From: Emma B
Date: 18 Jun 09 - 03:36 PM

btw, for those catters who are also on Facebook there is a group 'Stop Racist attacks across Northern Ireland' which I was informed of by fellow catter Lorcan Otway

Subject: RE: BS: Romanians flee homes after attack
From: Emma B
Date: 18 Jun 09 - 03:27 PM

I'm not an anarchist Bubblyrat, however I do have a respect for the truth which includes not making provocative statements about non existant benefits and thereby stirring up hatred of minority groups which, in the situation which is the subject of this thread, has lead to criminal behaviour by thuggist louts who are ignorant enough to believe that kind of twoddle.

If you represent the 'majority' of English people then for shame, despite my love of this country and its long tradition of tolerance and welcome to people, like my ancestors, fleeing from persecution, I would not wish to be associated with it.

I'm sorry for your unpleasant personal experiences perhaps, on reflection, it may give you some empathy with the plight of defenceless women and children who were physically threatened and verbally threatened with having one of their babies throats cut.

Maybe trying to put yourself in someone else's situation is a start to 'understanding'

Subject: RE: BS: Romanians flee homes after attack
From: meself
Date: 18 Jun 09 - 03:23 PM

Well, then, you will be pleased to know that, according to an Irishman I heard interviewed last night, the Roma in question have decided to go back to Romania.

He had been one of their neighbours before they had to be removed to a safe house. He had done what he could to protect them, and had organized the other non-Roma neighbours to drive off the gang of (about twenty) thugs. But late at night, after the police had finally come and gone, the thugs returned ...

Subject: RE: BS: Romanians flee homes after attack
From: bubblyrat
Date: 18 Jun 09 - 03:22 PM

Oh !! And are some of you SERIOUSLY telling me that a bunch of people from Romania,where it is hot and sunny and food is cheap,and wine is plentiful,actually moved all the way to IRELAND ,knowing that they would be no better off (as you claim) just because they LIKE the place ????? Rubbish !!!

Subject: RE: BS: Romanians flee homes after attack
From: bubblyrat
Date: 18 Jun 09 - 03:04 PM

Dear Emma B...
            About 6-7 years ago I was working in a theatre in Christchurch, Dorset. The Regent Centre, it was (and is ) called. I was the Stage Door Keeper,the door in question looking out onto the car park at the back of the theatre.One day,about 20 travellers'(ostensibly "Roma") caravans appeared,as there was at that time,no height barrier fitted. All the caravans (trailers) were new,or nearly new.All the towing vehicles were new,and none had a valid Tax disc.All the vehicles were registered in the Irish Republic.
    Within a short time of their arrival, I witnessed several males from this group going around the car park,trying to prise off peoples' petrol filler-caps.The womenfolk set about cooking,the standard method of washing -up being to open the top half of the caravan door,and throw the dirty water across the area.The children,of which there were many,were dirty,filthy,covered in spots and sores.Over the ensuing weeks,they did not attend school.
             Rubbish (garbage) was strewn everywhere ; there were no attempts at cleanliness,orderliness,or "civilised" behaviour.The attitude and general demeanour of all the adults in the group was one of surliness,rudeness,and aggression.
                  Large numbers of theatre patrons,and locals who used the car-park,complained to me,and I acted accordingly by contacting Christchurch Council at the Town Hall,in order to apprise them of our patrons',and other local folks',concerns ( They were ALL very frightened and worried).The response from the Town Hall ???
                " These people have a history and a language and a culture,and we must do NOTHING to upset them, it is against the law". (this was reiterated in writing ). So I 'phoned the Police ,who said " We can do nothing, it is a Civil matter". So my response to Christchurch Council was ---
             "I ,too, have a history,and a language,and a culture,as do all the other British people in Dorset, so what about the MAJORITY,and their fears,and aspirations ?" Well, the council gave me a warning (you could lose your job, they bleated !!)And the Police said "We can only respond if a crime is being committed".So I reported several crimes,as they were being committed ( the "travellers" even dismantled the fence surrounding the car-park!).
So,Emma and Paul ,that is my first-hand experience of so-called "Roma" people, and I was NOT repeat NOT impressed by them .But if YOU want to live like that,then you go ahead---don't let me stop you !! But I prefer the dignity of law-and-order,self-discipline,consideration for others,and cleanliness.
             What ARE you people ??? ANARCHISTS, or something?? I can't understand you at all !!

Subject: RE: BS: Romanians flee homes after attack
From: Paul Burke
Date: 18 Jun 09 - 01:48 PM

Rat's post exemplifies the exhortation, allow them rope and they'll hang themselves.

Subject: RE: BS: Romanians flee homes after attack
From: Emma B
Date: 18 Jun 09 - 12:38 PM

The true extent of the 'benefits' the Romanian Roma population in Northern Ireland are entitled to....


"Immigrant children who are not entitled to free school meals are to get help from the government in Northern Ireland.

School pupils in the Belfast area from Roma families, had been excluded from free lunches.

A south Belfast principal, whose school has more than 30 Roma children, went to the government with concerns about the pupils living in poverty.

Education Minister, Caitriona Ruane, has now agreed to fund the free meals.

Children cannot get free school meals unless their parents are claiming some sort of benefit.

That ruled out the Roma children because of the status of Romania in the European Union.

The Northern Ireland Council for Ethnic Minorities said it had told Roma families from Romania that since they were not entitled to take paid employment and could not claim benefits, they should return to their home country.

It said it was concerned they may be vulnerable to criminal gangs."

BBC news 6 January 2009

Subject: RE: BS: Romanians flee homes after attack
From: Wolfgang
Date: 18 Jun 09 - 12:26 PM

Martin,

of course you are right. I c(sh)ould have known. But I live in a country in which there are deplorably many "reasons" to look down on other people (Roma, Africans, "foreigners",...), however being catholic instead of protestant or vice versa is no such reason since long before my birth.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Romanians flee homes after attack
From: alanabit
Date: 18 Jun 09 - 10:19 AM

"This status gives them automatic access to free medical care,housing,welfare payments,child benefits,you name it,they can have it,and without making any sort of financial contribution to the "system",added to which they can (and do) keep their children off school,drive vehicles without tax or insurance,and generally behave more or less as they wish,without fear of let or hindrance."

From that I would deduce that the Roma should:

a). Immediately be given work permits
b). Given full civil rights so that they can perceive the system as their own and not someone else's.

Who obeys the laws of societies, of which they do not become members?

Subject: RE: BS: Romanians flee homes after attack
From: Emma B
Date: 18 Jun 09 - 09:11 AM

and btw..... talking about BNP fund raising

James Von Brunn, the white supremacist who shot dead a security guard, Stephen Tyrone Johns, at the Holocaust museum in Washington, attended fund-raising meetings of the American Friends of the British National Party.

To get back to what is happening in Belfast however -

John Oddy, when he was the BNP's north-west Wales organiser, allegedly boasted of killing innocent civilians in northern Ireland whilst as a serving soldier; its northern Ireland organiser, Andy McLorie (who recently joined a breakaway BNP faction dedicated to removing the current BNP leader Nick Griffin), was jailed for his participation in a Loyalist bomb attack on a Belfast home.
When interviewed by the police over the bomb attack, Andy McLorie allegedly made use of the term 'Taig', a racist term used to denigrate Catholics.

BNP activist and speaker Alan O'Reilly, a fanatical devotee of BNP leader Nick Griffin and operator of the Cleveland BNP blog says Catholics will be deported under a BNP government; declares Catholics to be the enemies of Britain and Christianity; believes Islam, the European Union and eastern European immigration are Catholic plots to destroy Britain; and, that Catholicism was behind communism, World War I & II and the Nazi regime

Some words from Alan O'Reilly

"As and when it comes to power a BNP Government would be constitutionally entitled summarily to eject you. All Muslim supporters, Marxist supporters, Papal [i.e. Catholic] supporters etc. could be 'ex-patriated' to countries where such regimes prevail"

"I would include them [Catholics] in the 'foreign white' category, which you seem to have overlooked in my earlier posts - they certainly could not be described as 'white Britons'"

the European Union (EU) is "a Vatican-inspired project to destroy Britain. Swamping us with foreigners is part of the overall strategy"

"Sinn Fein actually support illegal immigrants! Eastern Europeans, particularly Poles, are the same religion as Sinn Fein/IRA. Poland is 96% Catholic and Lithuania is 69% Catholic - these were the two European nations mentioned in the BT article. This kind of immigration can only help the Sinn Fein/IRA cause, which is a united Ireland under the Pope. T
The EU's aim is that mainland Britain should suffer the same fate - and the Mozzies [Muslims] are also a means to that end. Mozzie aggression is a means of driving the British population back into the 'fold,' as the Pope will be perceived as the only leader of any substance willing to stand up to them. He never really apologised for his anti-Mozzie remarks, only regretted that he had been 'misunderstood.'"

"The IRA and the Nazis all belonged to the same [Catholic] church. Their blood-brotherhood in terror (along with Islam and the ANC) should surprise no-one".

"Islam is a Vatican creation".

"Both Catholicism and Islam have a common objective - the destruction of Protestant Britain"

There is much more of this ilk

Words fail me......

Subject: RE: BS: Romanians flee homes after attack
From: Emma B
Date: 18 Jun 09 - 08:39 AM

The BNP base their 'call centre' in Belfast where Jim Dowson — a top BNP fundraiser and a militant anti-abortion campaigner who has a string of criminal convictions and has had links to mass-murderer Michael Stone (the loyalist terrorist)- runs their operations.
Nick Griffin visited there secretly just before the European elections-

In online BNPtv footage filmed at the Belfast HQ, Scotsman Dowson (who was kicked out of the Orange Order) brags that the Belfast base is raking in £1,500 per day — more than £500,000 per year — and has 12 staff.

On this video, which can be found on you tube, he continues

"I'm speaking to you from the reception of the British National Party's latest plant to open.

"The British National Party is now mainstream and is growing so incredibly quickly that these plants are absolutely necessary to keep the party running and to cope with the growth."

The footage then cuts to BNP leader Nick Griffin in the 'distribution warehouse' who boasts that they have 29million BNP leaflets there and states "it's a huge operation here".

It then cuts back to Dowson at the 'political headquarters' —which is in fact the Belfast office, which Dowson says is the "adminsitrative hub for the party".

He says: "Here we've recruited staff of the highest calibre to take the party to the next level."

reported on Sunday, 14 June 2009 in the Belfast Telegraph


No doubt the British National Party's success in securing the election of two MEPs will doubtless have encouraged and emboldened the more thuggish elements within the Ulster Loyalist milieu

As blogger, British journalist and author David Osler, has expressed it...

"Local protestant youth – who enjoy limited life-chances even during economic booms, let alone serious recessions - might just be finding the enthusiasm difficult to contain. With the Six Counties in a state of relative peace, there are few obvious pretexts for kicking the shit out of Taigs. And in any case, a change is as good as a rest, right?

For its part, the BNP will be happy enough with the division of labour involved. Griffin and his pals can get on with being chainstore-suited democratically elected politicians, pointing to the risk of sporadic egg bombardments as a truly shocking denial of their civil liberties."


The extent to which the true roots of this racist violence are obscured will determine its spread and increase in severity elsewhere.

Subject: RE: BS: Romanians flee homes after attack
From: Jack Campin
Date: 18 Jun 09 - 08:17 AM

Still topical:
The Terror Time

Subject: RE: BS: Romanians flee homes after attack
From: MartinRyan
Date: 18 Jun 09 - 07:36 AM

Wolfgang

While your comment is understandable, I think McGrath of Harlow was thinking of the well-known aversion of one Northern Ireland community to those whose (religious) allegiance is to Rome!

Regards

Subject: RE: BS: Romanians flee homes after attack
From: Wolfgang
Date: 18 Jun 09 - 07:29 AM

the mere syllables "Roman" would have been enough to ensure trouble

Exactly: "A multi-head family from Romania" is in Germany an expression that in some people elicits the emotions displayed by bubblyrat. The "argument" about a preferential treatment would be similar as well and it would have no basis in fact, rather the opposite.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Romanians flee homes after attack
From: Emma B
Date: 18 Jun 09 - 06:36 AM

'this means that they are,in the eyes of British Law,members of an "Ethnic group with a language and a culture of their own",which means that the police cannot and will not arrest them,no matter what they do,for fear of breaching their "Human Rights".'
-bubblyrat

Could you please back up such a ststement which is exactly the kind of remark often associated with provoking racist sentiments and promoting resentment and exactly the tactics employed by the BNP in their recent campaign in this area


While it is true that the economic slowdown in the six counties has led to tension over competition for jobs, and resentment that Poles and others were entitled to welfare and housing benefits local politicians point out that immigrants from Romania do not have the same economic rights as earlier European Union arrivals.

In addition I can see nothing criminal in the behaviour of these Roma immigrants who have suffered massive discrimination throughout Europe.
Roma people are often victims of forced evictions, racist attacks and police ill-treatment

However the criminal behaviour of the rightwing loyalist mob of white youth chanting Combat 18 racist slogans may never be prosecuted

On June 1st this year Kevin McDaid, a Catholic youth worker beaten to death by a loyalist mob was buried

The Northern Ireland police ombudsman's office is investigating allegations made at the weekend that a police officer sent a mobile phone text to ­Coleraine loyalists saying that local Catholics had put up an Irish tricolour on the estate where McDaid lived.
There were claims that the police officer's text prompted a loyalist gang to organise an "invasion" of the Heights area of Coleraine, which ended with McDaid being beaten to death and his neighbour, Damian Fleming, in hospital on a life support machine.

Dr Peter Shirlow, from Belfast's Queen's University stated
"If you listen to unionist politicians during this European election campaign, all they talk about is more money for Protestant areas. They emphasise only one community instead of talking about a shared, united society. So if politicians are fighting a resource war for their rival communities then it's no wonder those communities still the other side as the enemy."

The attacks on the Roma were not sectarian however they most cerainly, like the earlier attacks on the Chinese community, were racist.

Subject: RE: BS: Romanians flee homes after attack
From: Andy Jackson
Date: 18 Jun 09 - 06:16 AM

Good point Shimrod:

"...only envious of those that they believe to be of a 'lower social status' to themselves......the rich and powerful can rob, exploit and kill all they like - but if a poorer/'lower status' person appears to be 'getting away' with something then all the jealous morons take to the streets.."

Where are the public protests about our thieving M.P.s and incompetent bankers.

Subject: RE: BS: Romanians flee homes after attack
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 18 Jun 09 - 05:29 AM

"It is NOT,per se,racism,but frustration and ,well, jealousy, if you must know----why should the rest of us have to obey the rules when they don't ???"

Exactly! And it is this stupid, self-centred 'jealousy' (or 'envy') which seems to be at the heart of far too many people's 'politics'. Unfortunately, all demagogues and right wing politicians know about this elementary 'driving force' and exploit it ruthlessly.

A particularly unpleasant aspect of this force is that people who are driven by it are only envious of those that they believe to be of a 'lower social status' to themselves. Hence the rich and powerful can rob, exploit and kill all they like - but if a poorer/'lower status' person appears to be 'getting away' with something then all the jealous morons take to the streets. I despair of the human race!

Subject: RE: BS: Romanians flee homes after attack
From: bubblyrat
Date: 18 Jun 09 - 05:09 AM

And----this means that they are,in the eyes of British Law,members of an "Ethnic group with a language and a culture of their own",which means that the police cannot and will not arrest them,no matter what they do,for fear of breaching their "Human Rights".This status gives them automatic access to free medical care,housing,welfare payments,child benefits,you name it,they can have it,and without making any sort of financial contribution to the "system",added to which they can (and do) keep their children off school,drive vehicles without tax or insurance,and generally behave more or less as they wish,without fear of let or hindrance.
            This,it may surprise some of you,can lead to ill-will and resentment on the part of the populace of the host country.It is NOT,per se,racism,but frustration and ,well, jealousy, if you must know----why should the rest of us have to obey the rules when they don't ??? Of course,nobody of a civilised disposition would condone the behaviour of the "mob" in Northern Ireland in this instance,but why oh why are these Minority Groups perceived as being so much better than us "ordinary" folks ??

Subject: RE: BS: Romanians flee homes after attack
From: Paul Burke
Date: 17 Jun 09 - 05:36 PM

And?

Subject: RE: BS: Romanians flee homes after attack
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 17 Jun 09 - 05:35 PM

The families are Roma from Romania, it appears.

Subject: RE: BS: Romanians flee homes after attack
From: Emma B
Date: 17 Jun 09 - 02:45 PM

"The streets from which the Romanians fled are on the border between the city's multi-racial university district and the loyalist working class Village/Donegall Road area.

On Monday night, a number of young men from the Village area threw bottles and stones at an anti-racist protest on the Lisburn Road called to show solidarity with the Romanians.
The mob chanted Combat 18 slogans."

Combat 18's name is derived from the initials of Adolf Hitler; A and H are the first and eighth letters of the Latin alphabet.

They have been suspected of involvement in numerous deaths of immigrants and other members involved in a bloody civil war inside the group.

Combat 18 was formed in 1992 as a 'stewarding'/'security' group for the BNP (they 'protected' BNP meetings and minded BNP leaders during party marches) but became disillusioned with its change of image and increasing focus on electoral politics'

Combat 18 was also found to have close links with the outlawed Ulster Defence Association and is alleged to have smuggled arms to Protestant paramilitaries.
They also have links to worldwide nazi and extreme right wing organisations such as Klu Klux Klan and Aryan Unity.

They have in the past organised numerous Blood and Honour (Nazi music (skinhead) festival) events across the UK. BNP vice-chair Scott McLean has been known for his attendance at these events.

Subject: RE: BS: Romanians flee homes after attack
From: Jack Campin
Date: 17 Jun 09 - 02:41 PM

Aren't there laws against racially aggravated violence in NI, as there are in Scotland, England & Wales?

If so have they ever been invoked?

Subject: RE: BS: Romanians flee homes after attack
From: Paul Burke
Date: 17 Jun 09 - 02:11 PM

The BNP, like the National Front and Enoch Powell before them, have found the NI "Loyalists" fertile recruiting ground. It figures- both "philosophies" are based on fear and hatred. The haste of the NI police to insist that it's "spontaneous" can be taken as confirmation that it's official terrorist policy.

Subject: RE: BS: Romanians flee homes after attack
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 17 Jun 09 - 01:46 PM

I suspect that the mere syllables "Roman" would have been enough to ensure trouble in this case.

Subject: RE: BS: Romanians flee homes after attack
From: Wolfgang
Date: 17 Jun 09 - 10:02 AM

When I read the thread title I was convinced it was about Germany, where something very similar has happened recently. The attackers were neo-Nazis too and the attacked were Romanians, and not just Romanians, but Roma.

Wolfgang

Subject: BS: Romanians flee homes after attack
From: Emma B
Date: 17 Jun 09 - 07:19 AM

"More than 100 Romanian people forced to flee their homes in south Belfast have been moved to a leisure centre.

The group of about 20 families spent Tuesday night in a church hall after a spate of racist attacks on their homes.
Anna Lo of the Alliance Party said the families were "very frightened".

Ms Lo said attacks on Romanian homes - which included bricks being thrown through windows - had been increasing in frequency in recent months.

"They are really very frightened," she said. "The women, when they were talking to me yesterday, they were really upset, tears in their eyes and said, 'You know we love it here, we'd like to live here, but we're too scared.'

"A woman showed me her shoulder which was quite bruised and cut across, she was hit across the shoulder."

BBC News report today


My thanks to the trollish Daily Mail Reader 'guest' who has provided us with such explanatory links such as this.....


BNP Northern Ireland Launches 2009 Leafleting Campaign
February 15, 2009 by BNP News   

"The British National Party's growing Northern Ireland branch has launched its 2009 leafleting campaign by distributing more than 4000 pieces of literature in the Mid Ulster, reports that province's organiser Kieran Dinsmore.

"This area was chosen because the Mid Ulster area has the largest populations of migrant workers and asylum seekers in Northern Ireland," said Mr Dinsmore.

Seven activists distributed the leaflets over a five hour period, meeting a warm reception from the locals who were delighted to the see the party active in their area."