BS: War in Georgia (2008)

Subject: RE: BS: War in Georiga
From: Little Hawk
Date: 09 Aug 08 - 10:48 AM

LOL!

Subject: RE: BS: War in Georiga
From: Riginslinger
Date: 09 Aug 08 - 10:10 AM

Bush will probably send advisors there. They'll get off the plane in Atlanta and wonder what all of the fuss is about!

Subject: RE: BS: War in Georiga
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 09 Aug 08 - 05:43 AM

Give them all a nice hot cup of tea and tell them to go home!

Subject: RE: BS: War in Georiga
From: akenaton
Date: 09 Aug 08 - 05:27 AM

and would somebody please fix the thread title.....in case George can't find it on the map.

Subject: RE: BS: War in Georiga
From: akenaton
Date: 09 Aug 08 - 05:23 AM

Only 20 posts?

That must tell us something about somebody somewhere??????

Subject: RE: BS: War in Georiga
From: Little Hawk
Date: 08 Aug 08 - 02:27 PM

Fascinating stuff, Volgadon. Yes, I've heard of the Alans. They were very fine warriors with formidable cavalry.

Subject: RE: BS: War in Georiga
From: GUEST,Volgadon
Date: 08 Aug 08 - 02:23 PM

The Americans are supporting the Georgians, because they can't abandon them, after convincing them of the benefits of joining NATO.

Subject: RE: BS: War in Georgia
From: GUEST,Volgadon
Date: 08 Aug 08 - 02:18 PM

Irishenglish is right in thinking that this is a complex issue.
Here is some historical background.
The Ossetians are mainly Christians, descendants of the ancient Alans, who once ranged as far as France. Their language is part of the Proto-Iranian group (IIRC). The Georgian language is completely unrelated. Plenty of loanwords in both, because of a long, shared history.
The Alans/Ossetians were frequent allies of the Iberians/Georgians in their struggles against the Roman and Parthian empires, and, later, the Byzantines and Sassanians. They frequently intermarried and the Ossetian nobility was heavily influenced by their Georgian counterparts. This is best seen in the Georgianised surnames.
The Ossetians were the finest craftsmen and blacksmiths in the Caucasus. Ossetian swords and daggers were eagerly sought after, even in Byzantium.   
The Alan kingdom became one of the strongest in that part of the world under King Durgulel the Great. He married off one of his daughters to a Byzantine generral, the other, to the Georgian king. He was strong enough to meddle in international politics, and dictate terms.
After his death, the Georgian rulers and feudal lords attempted to take over the southern part of the Alan kingdom. A situation not unlike the Anglo-Scottish Border developed, with back-and-forth raiding, as well as large-scale campaigns. Douglases and Northumberlands!
Eastern Georgia later fell under Persian rule, but Ossetia manged to keep it's independence, which it fought for tooth-and-nail.
In 1774, Georgia and Ossetia fell under Russian rule, but it wasn't until 1830 that Russia had any real control over them.
Let's skip over to 1917. Georgia became independent and annexed Southern Ossetia. They suppressed Ossetian language and culture, carrying on even under Stalin, who turned a blind eye.

Mind you. I don't think that Russia really is acting with Ossetia's best interests in mind, but rather to show Georgia what they can expect for joining NATO. One can only wonder what lies in store for the Ukraine.

Subject: RE: BS: War in Georiga
From: Little Hawk
Date: 08 Aug 08 - 02:04 PM

They are a constant worry. I think the only reason Bush hasn't spoken of it publicly is that he's so scared of them himself.

Subject: RE: BS: War in Georiga
From: irishenglish
Date: 08 Aug 08 - 01:58 PM

Damn Liechtensteiners LH! Just remember my take over the world scheme involving St.Pierre and Miquelon awhile back>

Subject: RE: BS: War in Georiga
From: Little Hawk
Date: 08 Aug 08 - 01:48 PM

It sounds like a typical regional conflict to me...the kind of thing that was very likely to happen here and there following the breakup of the Soviet Union and the separation of many of its formerly outlying border areas into independent states. I think the Russians and the Georgians have enough issues between themselves that they would be fighting right now even if George Bush had sought a career in baseball instead and the USA was a minor power on the level of, say, Ecuador...and had no influence in the area at all. The Americans will, of course, be interested in playing the situation for any advantage they can, but that's normal in great power politics.

On the other hand, maybe Liechtenstein is behind it all. ;-) They are capable of stirring up anything, those people, and they're rampant capitalists too!

Subject: RE: BS: War in Georiga
From: GUEST,Volgadon
Date: 08 Aug 08 - 01:05 PM

The Ossetians dances are even more extreme, Greg, I've seen both.

Subject: RE: BS: War in Georiga
From: Wesley S
Date: 08 Aug 08 - 12:46 PM

Besides - We usual suspects all know that everything bad that ever happens is the fault of Bill and Hillary Clinton. And we've been covering it up for years......

Subject: RE: BS: War in Georiga
From: greg stephens
Date: 08 Aug 08 - 12:45 PM

I'd put money on the Georgians. I did a gig with some Georgian dancers once, and they jumped up in the air waving swords, and landed back on the floor on the points of their knees. You try it!
People who can do that can do anything.
(Mind you, perhaps Russian dancers do that as well, I don't know).

Subject: RE: BS: War in Georiga
From: GUEST,Volgadon
Date: 08 Aug 08 - 12:35 PM

He has been to both, after all. Oddly enough, Georgia is probably the only country in the world absolutely in love with Bush. I politely turned down an invite from a Georgian to watch 6 hours of recroded newsreel from the visit.

Subject: RE: BS: War in Georiga
From: jimmyt
Date: 08 Aug 08 - 12:19 PM

Take a deep breath and relax, Irishenglish. I don't think Teribus was singling you out. Also I bet George W can find georgia, just follow I 75 southand right after he crosses the Tennessee border, I will be there to meet and greet!

Subject: RE: BS: War in Georiga
From: irishenglish
Date: 08 Aug 08 - 12:15 PM

Can't wait to hear how the "usual suspects", aided and abetted by Dennis Kucinich, put this one down to George W. Bush.

That's bull Teribus. But then again, I guess I'm just a stupid American ill informed about the world, and I'm one of those pinko commie types as well, just because I choose to vote and follow policies that are humanity based by and large. Of course, it all makes sense. The usual suspects, Dennis Kucinich and myself all blame George Bush for this despite the fact that Bush probably needs help finding Georgia on the map!

Guess I'm a usual suspect then for actually believing that this is a complex dispute between Georgia and Russia. Guess I'm a usual suspect for hoping this can stop before it gets worse. Another day in the life of a usual suspect.

Subject: RE: BS: War in Georiga
From: GUEST,Volgadon
Date: 08 Aug 08 - 11:59 AM

Actually, the Ossetians need the Russians there.

Subject: RE: BS: War in Georiga
From: Teribus
Date: 08 Aug 08 - 11:46 AM

One of the main oil pipelines from Azerbaijan runs through Georgia to the Black Sea.

Can't wait to hear how the "usual suspects", aided and abetted by Dennis Kucinich, put this one down to George W. Bush.

Serious? Extremely. Only one outcome that the countries of the region can accept - Russia removes its troops from Georgian soil.

Subject: RE: BS: War in Georiga
From: Wesley S
Date: 08 Aug 08 - 11:40 AM

Is there any oil there?

Subject: RE: BS: War in Georiga
From: beardedbruce
Date: 08 Aug 08 - 11:12 AM

Obviously Obama's trip to Maui ( to meet with Paris H.?) is a far more significant topic, at least from the news reports.


Is there a Russian General named Shermanov?

Subject: RE: BS: War in Georiga
From: bankley
Date: 08 Aug 08 - 11:09 AM

I hope Atlanta doesn't get burned again, Miss Scarlet

Subject: RE: BS: War in Georiga
From: irishenglish
Date: 08 Aug 08 - 11:04 AM

Some of us Americans are capable of sniffing about how bad it is in the US while keeping an eye on news elsewhere, including an escalating situation in Georgia.

Subject: BS: War in Georiga
From: GUEST,Sawzaw
Date: 08 Aug 08 - 10:52 AM

While you folks are sniffing about how bad it is in the US, War is breaking out in Georgia.

http://www.economist.com/world/europe/displaystory.cfm?story_id=11909324