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Subject: RE: Battle of Clontarf-round two/Comhaltas Interruptus From: GUEST,Phil the fluther Date: 31 Dec 08 - 06:41 AM I passed by the Clasach building the other night but there was no sign of any activity - the gates were shut and the lights were off. I'd heard there was supposed to be lots of music going to happen there. Anybody know what's going on? |
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Subject: RE: Battle of Clontarf-round two/Comhaltas Interruptus From: GUEST,Eileen O'Connor Date: 15 Dec 08 - 07:41 AM You're right Emmo. It's outrageous when you think about it. To censor ALL discussion on an inssue as big (and expensive) as the Clasac, and Cluain Tarbh's dissolution by ALL the members of Comhaltas is not what we'd expect in 2008. What's even worse is the success of the censorship campaign. How does he do it, and why do we let it happen??? I hear that this is happening again to another neighbouring branch of ours even as I write this. Eileen |
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Subject: RE: Battle of Clontarf-round two/Comhaltas Interruptus From: GUEST,Emmo Date: 13 Dec 08 - 05:41 AM There's something of the old Joe Stalin thing about it....squash all discussion about them, don't allow any reference in the fleadh programme, don't even mention their name....sure it will be like they never existed in the first place! |
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Subject: RE: Battle of Clontarf-round two/Comhaltas Interru From: Bonnie Shaljean Date: 05 Dec 08 - 06:35 AM > Freedom of speech still exists in 2008 in Ireland, doesn't it?? Yep. Unfortunately this includes freedom to manipulate, distort, and blind one with PR & snow-jobs. Putting out "sub judice" rumours is a perfect case in point. |
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Subject: RE: Battle of Clontarf-round two/Comhaltas Interruptus From: GUEST,Jim Martin Date: 05 Dec 08 - 06:23 AM Not in CCE ...........apparently! |
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Subject: RE: Battle of Clontarf-round two/Comhaltas Interruptus From: GUEST,Eileen Date: 05 Dec 08 - 05:48 AM What Frank says is true. Ceoltoiri Cluain Tarbh have used a solicitor to formally lodge their appeal to CCE head office. No court proceedings have been initiated. The matter is NOT sub judice. H/O are using the "sub judice" term to stifle any reasoned discussion among the many concerned members of CCE. Please feel free to discuss the dissolution of the former CCE Cluain Tarbh branch at any forum. Also, there is plenty to discuss about the uses Clasac might be put to, and who might occupy it. Freedom of speech still exists in 2008 in Ireland, doesn't it?? Eileen |
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Subject: RE: Battle of Clontarf-round two/Comhaltas Interruptus From: GUEST,Frank Date: 04 Dec 08 - 04:42 PM The (ex-)Clontarf branch have not initiated proceedings against Comhaltas. So no, Emmo, it isn't true. The matter is NOT sub judice and so can be discussed freely at any forum. |
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Subject: RE: Battle of Clontarf-round two/Comhaltas Interruptus From: knight_high Date: 03 Dec 08 - 11:58 AM I guess this would be useful to know. I see from the Cluain Tarbh website that correspondance has gone out to Branches giving information on this situation. If this is brought up at meetings, those of us in Comhaltas who support Cluain Tarbh in this regard - and there are many - we would like to know the true picture as it stands at present re court action, etc. This is the AGM season, so now is the time. |
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Subject: RE: Battle of Clontarf-round two/Comhaltas Interruptus From: GUEST,Emmo Date: 03 Dec 08 - 05:10 AM Rumour has it that the County Board refuse to let the matters to be discussed at their meetings because it is sub judice. Is this really true? Is Cluain Tarbh taking Comhaltas to court? |
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Subject: RE: Battle of Clontarf-round two/Comhaltas Interru From: caitlin rua Date: 02 Dec 08 - 02:20 PM In case any non-Irish readers are a bit baffled by the last three posts: FÁS (pronounced Foss) (rhymes with Loss) is a government agency dealing with employment issues.* It comes as a surprise to no one here that they are as corrupt as the rest of them - at a time when there is a recession and huge unemployment, and it's getting worse. The Progressive Democrats are a political party which has recently disbanded. Mary Harney is the current Minister for Health and Children and you can look her up in Wiki & elsewhere if you have the stomach for it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Harney I had to take a friend to the emergency unit of the nearest hospital - which is 30 miles away - and it was a ten-hour wait. Trolleys of patients waiting to be seen were lined up on both sides of the corridor (which they have informally named the Mary Harney Ward). The staff there were brilliant (no one is criticising them) but - get this - there was ONE doctor on duty, and in addition to his skilled medical work he had to FILL OUT THE EFFING PAPERWORK, causing immeasurable delays. Not to mention stressing him out at a time when he desperately needed to be able to think clearly. But hey. At least we have an A&E unit. I hear they are trying to close the only one in another county. This is the crowd that keeps Larry in power and protects him from the consequences of his and his ruling committee's arbitrary and self-interested acts. And from what I read, it looks like they are getting away with the hijacking of Clasac. Bertie's children. (Bertie is the previous Taoiseach/Prime Minister, recently ousted for corruption.) Eileen or anyone - what is the latest development? Trying to read between the lines leaves me with the impression that things could be better. What's been happening? * http://www.fas.ie/en/ [formerly Guest caitlín] |
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Subject: RE: Battle of Clontarf-round two/Comhaltas Interru From: GUEST Date: 02 Dec 08 - 12:50 PM Couldn't agree with you more RTE Listener and lets not forget the Progressive Democrats (recently deceased) and Mary Harney's hair do, or more to the point "who paid for it?"
Thanks. -Joe Offer- |
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Subject: RE: Battle of Clontarf-round two/Comhaltas Interruptus From: GUEST,RTE Listener. Date: 25 Nov 08 - 02:30 PM guest5, do bear in mind that not everyone reading this is Irish, and might not have heard of the recent revelations about the financial happenings with FAS! Briefly, the "High Heid Yins", as we say in Scotland, have been running up vast "Expenses" going on "Fact-Finding Missions" (with their spouses) to USA, flying "Business Class", holding meetings during rounds of golf (aye, right), etc etc etc. |
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Subject: RE: Battle of Clontarf-round two/Comhaltas Interruptus From: GUEST,guest5 Date: 25 Nov 08 - 01:37 PM I agree with guest,guest as one north Dublin branch are holding their Christmas night out/party in the local GAA club and not in the Clasac building. Who is funding the day to day running costs of the building or does FAS have a hand in this also!!! Who is using the building ??? I don't see music advertised ! |
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Subject: RE: Battle of Clontarf-round two/Comhaltas Interruptus From: GUEST,Jim Martin Date: 24 Nov 08 - 10:22 PM Seems like it! |
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Subject: RE: Battle of Clontarf-round two/Comhaltas Interru From: GUEST,GUEST Date: 22 Nov 08 - 07:40 PM It beggars belief that some branches would even consider going to Clasac for sessions or whatever whilst the dissolved branch is still out in the cold while their repeated requests for independant arbritration are constantly ignored. Word has it that Comhatlas is frantically going around the Dublin branches begging any of them to come to Clasac for their sessions. It would be horrible if those Dublin branches took advantage of Clontarf's misfortune at being bullied out of Clasac by Comhaltas. Will nobody stick up for the victim of Comhaltas' bullying - namely the dissolved Clontarf branch? Does the bully always win in the end? |
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Subject: RE: Battle of Clontarf-round two/Comhaltas Interruptus From: GUEST,Eileen O'Connor Date: 19 Nov 08 - 04:38 AM Thanks Bonnie, Knight High, Declan, Cap'n Birdseye. Wish I could hang a banner across the East Link Toll, and across the railway bridge at Clontarf, and maybe the pedestrian bridge Fairview for good measure with this request. This is a good forum, but limited in numbers it reaches. Please spread the word. Eileen |
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Subject: RE: Battle of Clontarf-round two/Comhaltas Interru From: Bonnie Shaljean Date: 18 Nov 08 - 08:43 AM > ...if our neighboring branches of Comhaltas and music friends everywhere, would insist that Comhaltas HQ afford an appeal process to Cluain Tarbh, before agreeing to step into the breach left by our expulsion from Comhaltas and the Clasac Theatre. Is this a fair request?? Yes. A very fair request. I hope it receives the widespread support it deserves. |
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Subject: RE: Battle of Clontarf-round two/Comhaltas Interruptus From: knight_high Date: 18 Nov 08 - 08:37 AM I agree Declan. What Ceoltóirí Chluain Tarbh are asking for is not unreasonable. Clasac should not be supported until Ceoltóirí Chluain Tarbh get an appeal hearing. This will end in tears for Comhaltas HQ and the Ard Comhairle when they are asked to explain their actions in a court of law. |
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Subject: RE: Battle of Clontarf-round two/Comhaltas Interruptus From: Declan Date: 17 Nov 08 - 07:44 PM Some people have been mentioning events and sessions at Classach to me. I've told them that I will not darken the door of the place until the issue of the expulsion of the former branch has been resolved. I'm sure my non attendence at events is not going to prove earth shattering to Comhaltas, but I have no intention of lending any credence to the new branch or their activities by getting involved with anything that happens there until things have been sorted out. |
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Subject: RE: Battle of Clontarf-round two/Comhaltas Interruptus From: The Sandman Date: 17 Nov 08 - 07:51 AM Yes,very reasonable. |
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Subject: RE: Battle of Clontarf-round two/Comhaltas Interruptus From: GUEST,Eileen O'Connor Date: 17 Nov 08 - 07:03 AM Tempting as it might be to participate in events in the Clasac Theatre, it would be appreciated if our neighboring branches of Comhaltas and music friends everywhere, would insist that Comhaltas HQ afford an appeal process to Cluain Tarbh, before agreeing to step into the breach left by our expulsion from Comhaltas and the Clasac Theatre. Is this a fair request?? Eileen O'Connor Comhaltas Cluain Tarbh (ex) Ceoltoiri Chulain Tarbh |
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Subject: RE: Battle of Clontarf-round two/Comhaltas Interruptus From: GUEST Date: 10 Nov 08 - 08:41 PM The Macalla concert in Classac was 'invited guests' so to make sure it was a full house! |
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Subject: RE: Battle of Clontarf-round two/Comhaltas Interru From: GUEST,Guest Date: 07 Nov 08 - 08:33 PM Classes take place in Clasac every Saturday morning - see http://comhaltas.ie/locations/detail/cluaintarbh/ for more informtion. I've heard that the Macalla na hEireann concert was highly successful and drew a full house. |
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Subject: RE: Battle of Clontarf-round two/Comhaltas Interruptus From: knight_high Date: 07 Nov 08 - 05:46 PM The Macalla Concert tour was supposed to be in the Clasac centre on Friday, October 24th. Does anybody know if this went ahead and were there many attending? |
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Subject: RE: Battle of Clontarf-round two/Comhaltas Interruptus From: GUEST Date: 05 Nov 08 - 08:17 PM Whats happening in the Classac building? Are classes being held there, is it possible to join children in a ceili band or group? |
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Subject: RE: Battle of Clontarf-round two/Comhaltas Interruptus From: GUEST,Eileen O'Connor Date: 08 Sep 08 - 05:00 AM Good news, Ceoltoiri Chluain Tarbh (the Reel Clontarf) had a fantastic turnout at our registration on Saturday morning 6th. Classes start back next Saturday 13th September, between 9 and 11.30 in Marino VEC, Fairview (where we always were). It's hard to keep a good thing down! Eileen |
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Subject: RE: Battle of Clontarf-round two/Comhaltas Interru From: Gulliver Date: 06 Sep 08 - 11:30 PM OMG! Nerd by name, and Nerd by nature! I think Bonnie has explained this--thanks Bonnie. |
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Subject: RE: Battle of Clontarf-round two/Comhaltas Interruptus From: Leadfingers Date: 06 Sep 08 - 12:55 PM 500 !!! |
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Subject: RE: Battle of Clontarf-round two/Comhaltas Interruptus From: Leadfingers Date: 06 Sep 08 - 12:55 PM This certainly seems like a thread to keep out of, but I cant resist- |
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Subject: RE: Battle of Clontarf-round two/Comhaltas Interru From: Bonnie Shaljean Date: 06 Sep 08 - 05:24 AM Just for interest, I've looked through my address book - built up over the past 30 years and consisting of info given to me by the people who live there - and in every case (when they use a number at all) they have written the district name, then the city, then a number by itself.* Both "D" and "Dn" are redundant, and there is no use of it anywhere in the addresses people have given me. I also see that some names have the same postal number, which means that the names are more area-specific. If you Google "Clontarf Dublin 3" you get a million hits. Google Dn3 and you get Doncaster (UK). Google "Clontarf Dn3" even searching only the Irish pages and you get zilch. What's that tell you? * Donnybrook/Ballsbridge Dublin 4 Rathmines/Ranelagh/Terenure/Rathgar Dublin 6 Drumcondra Dublin 9 Ballyfermot Dublin 10 Baldoyle Dublin 13 Mulhuddart Dublin 15 Rathfarnham/Dundrum Dublin 16 Stepaside Dublin 18 |
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Subject: RE: Battle of Clontarf-round two/Comhaltas Interru From: Bonnie Shaljean Date: 06 Sep 08 - 04:37 AM Dn3 may be logical, but its meaning is not immediately obvious. In the rest of the Republic we don't use post codes at all, and I don't believe most people would see Dn3 and straightaway think, Ah...Dublin. Every letter I've ever seen or written to the capital, or address advertised, will just say "Dublin 1" (or whichever) - that is, when they bother with a number at all. The abbreviation is not in common usage even locally. If you include the district name (Clontarf, Ranelagh, Rathfarnham etc) you really don't need a number as well. (This is bound to change as the housing explodes outwards, but the old long-established areas of the city are well recognised.) If you write "Dn" even a lot of people here won't understand what you're talking about. We just call it Dublin. And though the Irish name for the city may be known here, probably a lot of visitors from Britain and America and elsewhere will not make the connection because there's no obvious association between the words (as there is with, say, Cork = Corcaigh). I think the point Eileen is trying to make is that head office is trying to do everything they can to obscure their identity. This is certainly an effective way to do it. "Dn3" is largely meaningless if you don't automatically think Post Code - which people here don't, because outside the capital we don't have them. And how on earth do you SAY it? That would lose everyone. Which I suspect is the whole point. |
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Subject: RE: Battle of Clontarf-round two/Comhaltas Interruptus From: Nerd Date: 06 Sep 08 - 02:40 AM Gulliver, first you wrote: What Guest wrote about nobody knowing what Dn3 is, is nonsense. Dublin 3 is the Dublin postal code for Clontarf. Then you said you did NOT try to say what Dn3 means. This splits the hair mighty fine. Riddle me this, then: how was the fact that Dublin 3 is the postal code for Clontarf, relevant to the moniker "Dn3," if you're NOT trying to say that Dn3 means Dublin 3? |
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Subject: RE: Battle of Clontarf-round two/Comhaltas Interruptus From: GUEST,Eileen O'Connor Date: 05 Sep 08 - 04:33 AM CLONTARF is the "brand" name by which our club is recognised. Only some of the members of the club actually live in Clontarf. However, everyone lives close by in the surrounding parishes. (I'm not aware that anyone in the newly formed CCE Cluain Tarbh actually lives in Clontarf). We are now "Ceoltóirí Chluain Tarbh" (Clontarf musicians). This is our new ID. The silly issue over not being "allowed" use our own name will only arise when it comes to competition season again next Spring. Unfortunately the newly formed branch are called by the name we've been recognised by for 40 years, Comhaltas Ceoltoiri Éireann Cluain Tarbh. They will obviously benefit from mistaken identity, as their adverts and the Comhaltas website will refer all enquiries for music lessons in our area to the newly formed branch, without any explanations. It FEELS LIKE identity theft. Ceoltóirí Chluain Tarbh, (the Reel Clontarf) have registration for the new term tomorrow (Saturday 6th September) between 9 and 11.30 in Marino VEC, Fairview as always. Eileen |
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Subject: RE: Battle of Clontarf-round two/Comhaltas Interruptus From: GUEST Date: 01 Sep 08 - 04:35 AM If you live in Clontarf why could this address not be used? |
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Subject: RE: Battle of Clontarf-round two/Comhaltas Interru From: Gulliver Date: 31 Aug 08 - 11:07 PM Áth Cliath is the Irish name for Dublin. It's immaterial to me what names are used in the Fleadh--I've nothing to do with it--I simply tried to explain what "Guest" chose to ignore. |
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Subject: RE: Battle of Clontarf-round two/Comhaltas Interruptus From: Effsee Date: 31 Aug 08 - 10:45 PM So what does "Áth Cliath'" mean? |
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Subject: RE: Battle of Clontarf-round two/Comhaltas Interru From: Gulliver Date: 31 Aug 08 - 10:19 PM Nerd, I did not say what Dn3 means. I said: "Dublin 3 is the Dublin postal code for Clontarf." |
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Subject: RE: Battle of Clontarf-round two/Comhaltas Interruptus From: Nerd Date: 31 Aug 08 - 01:27 AM Map of Dublin Post Codes Clontarf is there in 3. According to Gulliver, this is what Dn3 means. What our GUEST is pointing out, I think, is that that isn't how one would actually address a letter--which would, among other things, go to D3, not Dn3. |
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Subject: RE: Battle of Clontarf-round two/Comhaltas Interruptus From: Nerd Date: 31 Aug 08 - 01:17 AM Effsee, It means "Dublin DN3," equivalent to (say) "New York, NY 10010" or "London NW5" |
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Subject: RE: Battle of Clontarf-round two/Comhaltas Interruptus From: Effsee Date: 30 Aug 08 - 09:40 PM Oops,capslock frenzy! How many Guests? |
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Subject: RE: Battle of Clontarf-round two/Comhaltas Interruptus From: Effsee Date: 30 Aug 08 - 09:22 PM Jaysus! How maMY Guests have we got here? I say again:- Thanks for that Guest, but can you explain what 'Dn3 Áth Cliath' means for us monoglots please? |
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Subject: RE: Battle of Clontarf-round two/Comhaltas Interruptus From: GUEST Date: 30 Aug 08 - 05:07 PM Gulliver,'Dn.3,Áth Cliath'does not make sense or read well. |
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Subject: RE: Battle of Clontarf-round two/Comhaltas Interruptus From: Barry Finn Date: 29 Aug 08 - 02:05 PM "Dn3" Couldn't they have done better than that? Please! There doesn't seem to be any talk or reasoning on the part of HQ to take any steps forward in mending bridges. After all it is there responsibility, "seeing as they took charge", to see that deep wounds get tended to & to make the healing process as fast & as easy as possible. Being a member from the Boston (US) branch, we don't hear much except what we read, maybe I'm way off but are there any steps at all in seeing that the "new" branch is brought into the fold with at least the respect of the "proded son"> Barry |
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Subject: RE: Battle of Clontarf-round two/Comhaltas Interru From: Gulliver Date: 29 Aug 08 - 08:57 AM What Guest wrote about nobody knowing what Dn3 is, is nonsense. Dublin 3 is the Dublin postal code for Clontarf. |
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Subject: RE: Battle of Clontarf-round two/Comhaltas Interruptus From: Effsee Date: 28 Aug 08 - 09:41 PM OK. Thanks Guest, on pondering I thought it might be something like a postcode or similar. |
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Subject: RE: Battle of Clontarf-round two/Comhaltas Interruptus From: GUEST Date: 28 Aug 08 - 07:08 PM Effsee, Dn3 was conjured up by whoever compiled the Dublin fleadh programme in order to not give members from clontarf any status, nobody seems to know what it stands for but it continued through the Leinster and All Ireland programmes. I suppose someone in CCE HQ does! |
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Subject: RE: Battle of Clontarf-round two/Comhaltas Interruptus From: Jim Carroll Date: 28 Aug 08 - 11:53 AM Indeed they were; thanks Rowan - always said we should never have got rid of the Colonies. Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: Battle of Clontarf-round two/Comhaltas Interru From: Rowan Date: 28 Aug 08 - 04:06 AM Not being a member but having read all the posts I think I have gained an understanding of the publicly-available info. From a lifetime of involvement (at all levels) with voluntary organisations it seems all too familiar. From an Oz perspective (which means I'm ignorant of specifically Irish legislative details that might nullify my comments) it seems the following could be explored. 1 Getting the locals of Clontarf (meaning Reel Clontarf, now known as Ceoltoiri Cluain Tarbh) back into a situation where they have some proportionate management of the facility they helped establish seems to be a local priority. Surely the Dublin City Councillors (the Local Government controlling the land on which the CLASAC is sited) can be lobbied/pressured/convinced politically into changing the details of "to whom" it is leased, so that the locals can be the major partners in running it. From the info above it seems the CCT have a lot of people with a lot of abilities who could cover a major part of its future activities; if Monkton/Comhaltas/HQ were "needed" to run particular aspects they could be invited to be (probably 'minority') members of the Board of Management, with Clontarf (CCT) members a similar minority and the Dublin CC administration represented with "balance of power" numbers. From the posts above I gather that the Senator (how come an elected parliamentary represented can have a paid outside job, let alone avoid accusations of "conflict of interest"? -sorry, I'm living in Oz) has a reputation and history of refusing CCE participation in entities it can't control. If he won't come to the party I'm sure other cultural institutions would be lining up to join in and provide the locals with the required expertise and functions. 2 Getting CCE to be more "accountable" in the way many have recommended. I'm aware that many institutions we think of as "public" are in fact private (and, indeed, multinational) corporations; the ICRC has already been mentioned but Greenpeace is another example of the genre. Several prongs need to be employed, probably at the same time. 2a Political pressure could be applied to have the Parliament (Dail?) legislate that institutions that are not part of govt but are recipients of govt funds conform to a series of model "rules". It might be a stretch to insist (of a "private" organisation) that its constitution meets the requirements of a minimal model, but that has been applied to similar organisations in most states in Oz for the last quarter century. Such "rules" could, however, require an organisation to publish (or make available to all members, as well as the govt) its Annual Accounts, AGM Minutes, procedures and records of Equity, EEO, Grievance Mediation, Disciplinary rules, activities and determinations. 2b Changing the particular representation of the grass-roots membership when there are four layers of I hope these suggestions are useful. Cheers, Rowan |
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Subject: RE: Battle of Clontarf-round two/Comhaltas Interruptus From: Effsee Date: 27 Aug 08 - 10:25 PM Thanks for that Guest, but can you explain what 'Dn3 Áth Cliath' means for us monoglots please? |
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Subject: RE: Battle of Clontarf-round two/Comhaltas Interruptus From: GUEST Date: 27 Aug 08 - 08:04 PM Any participants in this years fleadh cheoil na hEireann from the dissolved clontarf branch of cce,either solo musicians,duets,trios,ceili bands or grúpaí ceoil were not entered in the official programme as coming from clontarf but from 'Dn3 Áth Cliath'.What was even more ridiculous was that this is what was read out to introduce the competitors. However one of the officials did identify the music group as being from Clontarf Dublin,much to the ammusement of the people in the audience from Dublin. |
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