How much would you pay for a CD?

Subject: RE: How much would you pay for a CD?
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 25 Oct 10 - 06:43 AM

I'm with the majority on this one.
There seem to be two types of artists here. The Biggies (McCartney, Elton et al) with big record companies, and even bigger marketing budgets, who can afford to sell their stuff really cheaply as a loss leader. And some even give complete albums away with the Sunday newspapers!
But this is more about the artists at the other end of the food chain. People who (rightly or wrongly) think they've got something to offer musically, and subsidise the production manufacturing costs out of their own pockets, not even knowing if it will sell.
For these artists, I would willingly pay 10 to 15 pounds for a CD.
Having just released my first Solo CD ELOISE (www.the-attic-tapes.co.uk If someone could do a clicky I'd be grateful!) which I paid for myself, I'm happy to say that after 2 months it's in profit, not by much, but I've paid the production costs.
I sell from home or at gigs when I can get any!
It doesn't have a bar code, as there is little point in distribution or mainline shops. After everyone has taken their cut the money coming to me is minimal.
I will, and have left 5 or so with Festival record stall holders (most of whom I know and trust anyway) The deal is that they sell it for £12 I get £8 they get £4.
Which seems fair to me, after all they've got overheads too.
And if they sell them. They just ask for more. Everyone wins.
As for downloads, No thanks. Too many people taking their cut. You'd have to have a lot of people downloading a track to make more than a few pence. No point in that.
On my site (Still in it's infancy) there are 3 snippets of three tracks to see if anyone likes them.(but not the complete track) I think that is the best way for small artists to go. Not forgetting that it costs to set up a website too. More overheads.
As for media advertising. Far too expensive. One tiny ad in fRoots magazine would wipe out my tiny profit at a stroke, and result in probably no sales!
I have sent copies to Radio friends in Local radio here in the UK who've kindly played it, and have said nice things. Result. No sales!
Haven't even bothered with main stream radio. It would sit in the great pile of unopened mail of literally thousands of CDs they get every week. Having worked there I've seen it. Some peoples offices you can't even open the door to get in!
So, support the small artists that you enjoy at a gig, and buy the CD at the price at which it is offered. There are reasons for the price.
Let's face it 12 quid is only the cost of a curry after all and a CD lasts longer!

Subject: RE: How much would you pay for a CD?
From: GUEST,Patsy
Date: 25 Oct 10 - 06:09 AM

I think the cost of CDs has levelled off to a more sensible price now compared to the mid-late nineties. Back then I bought a Ronettes CD at an extortionate price (I thought) of £15.99 as a gift for someone and out of the 18 tracks there was only 4 possibly 5 songs that the person could remember. So yes that is the danger ending up with something that you don't fully listen too and you are stuck with it. When you are faced with a CD that has got far too many tracks to listen through can be a bit of a bug bear for me. These days I try to look for something that is more quality than quantity and hopefully will be good at first or second listening and want to play again and again.

Subject: RE: How much would you pay for a CD?
From: Ian Hendrie
Date: 25 Oct 10 - 05:20 AM

I am happy to pay £10-£15 for a CD. I try to buy from the artists themselves or a folk orientated shop/web-site. Amazon, Play, etc. can survive without my custom.

Subject: RE: How much would you pay for a CD?
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 25 Oct 10 - 05:11 AM

At the height of the economic boom in Ireland,around 2005-2006, some traditional music   CDs were sold for as much as €23 while the average lay around €20. At the moment I think (haven't bought many CDs recently) prices are in the €15-18 region, depending on the typoe of outlet.

Most traditional CDs are self-produced ones. Which means the people recording put up the money, make the effort and sell/market them themselves. The '1.50 to produce' certainly doesn't cover the outlay for studio, graphic design, the cost of freebies for broadcast/review, (and optional advertising and marketing), website etc.

Distributors will pay you €7 if they take any off you, usually in batches of (multiples of) 25, the cost of getting the CDs to them is yours to shoulder. The US distributors I have dealt with will pay even less, again handing over the burden of getting the material to them to the seller. After one of two batches I decided it was not worth dealing with the US crowd. Some shops will pay more, some specialised shops are very fair (€12 for a CD they sell at €20) some slightly less so. Disadvantage is the majority of shops in Ireland will only deal on sale or return basis and you'll have to check up on them to see if they have sold your CD, they will certainly not send you a cheque when they sell out.

That al said and done, I have no problem buying CDs at the current rate of €15-18 when the music interests me.

Subject: RE: How much would you pay for a CD?
From: Howard Jones
Date: 25 Oct 10 - 03:09 AM

Sorry but I don't follow the logic of the OP Howard Jones.."that in the digital age it's up to the consumer to decide what something is worth".

That was a paraphrase of the argument used on the other thread. Of course the consumer has always had the choice not to pay the asking price, but in the past that usually meant not acquiring the music. The alternative to buying the album was at best a taped copy of a friend's. These days it is quite easy to acquire a good-quality copy for little or nothing.

The costs of manufacturing a CD are just a small part of the total cost. Besides, the cost of production isn't a consideration for the purchaser. However if consumers aren't willing to pay a price which covers the cost of production, will musicians and record companies be willing to continue to provide the music, if they can't recover their costs?

The other thread was prompted by a comment from someone in the music industry who is suggesting that downloads should cost £1 - since so many are being downloaded illegally the industry might as well give away recordings in order to generate interest in live concerts and merchandising. Some bands have been giving away music for free, or inviting fans to pay whatever they feel it's worth. I'm not sure that model works for the folk world.

Subject: RE: How much would you pay for a CD?
From: andrew e
Date: 25 Oct 10 - 03:08 AM

The trouble with buying CDs is that you don't really know if you're going to like more than one track until you've bought it!
iTunes sell tracks separately and I believe this has impacted on whole CD sales.
I think $15[Aus] is a good price for the actual CD, and about $6 for the MP3 download.
Talking about "authentic crackles", didn't Steeleye Span have a track with a built in jump?

Subject: RE: How much would you pay for a CD?
From: Will Fly
Date: 25 Oct 10 - 02:45 AM

authentic 'crackles' in the music which you wouldn't get with a digitally remastered CD

I wrote in the "downloads for £1" thread: I can also recall that what were often crappy recordings of early rock'n roll in the 1950s are now regarded as the real thing :-)

Early digital remastering was mainly very insensitive to the tonal values of the original record and concentrated on clarity at the expense of everything else. This has certainly improved. But I don't think the artists themselves would have approved of 'authentic crackles' either - they would have wanted the original shellac/vinyl to be as perfect as possible.

I once did a spoof '30s recording - with added dust and crackles... just for fun.

Subject: RE: How much would you pay for a CD?
From: GUEST,Patsy
Date: 25 Oct 10 - 02:27 AM

For me £10 is enough to pay for a CD £12 at the most depending on the artiste. I like to peruse the aisles of HMV especially the 'World Music' section or if I am looking for classical music but I get more pleasure scouring little obscure record shops and have found many a little treasure tucked away. The only good thing about the internet is it is good for finding unusual covers or forgotten recordings. My son downloaded a huge amount of Billie Holliday for me, I wouldn't know where to start looking in a store but he compiled a CD for me with authentic 'crackles' in the music which you wouldn't get with a digitally remastered CD.

Subject: RE: How much would you pay for a CD?
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 25 Oct 10 - 01:38 AM

And I would like, if at all possible, lyrics for all songs, and certainly some background on each.

hhmmm... it takes some decent desktop publishing software and the knowledge to use it to fit all that into little CD booklet. Expensive to reproduce too.

A song title, writer, musicians/vocals is plenty for the sleeve. Lyrics can be posted on artist's website.

Subject: RE: How much would you pay for a CD?
From: kendall
Date: 24 Oct 10 - 09:17 PM

If people are going to just steal someones music off the internet, why would anyone make another cd?

Subject: RE: How much would you pay for a CD?
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 24 Oct 10 - 08:41 PM

If it was in an out-of-print book .... any price up to $500.00 US.

For a CD - zero for most...the web is free.

IF I personaly met...or...know....and want to support the artist....$1000.00.

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

Outside of the local Salvation Army Band..there is no "artist" worthy of 1K US.

Subject: RE: How much would you pay for a CD?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 24 Oct 10 - 06:12 PM

For somebody whose music I like and whom I want to support, I'm happy to pay $15.    I figure that at least part of that is to encourage the artist to make more CD's. For that price I want a real "jewel-box", not a cardboard excuse.   And I would like, if at all possible, lyrics for all songs, and certainly some background on each.

Subject: RE: How much would you pay for a CD?
From: michaelr
Date: 24 Oct 10 - 05:38 PM

production costs are an economy of scale.

What is that supposed to mean?

Subject: RE: How much would you pay for a CD?
From: kendall
Date: 24 Oct 10 - 04:28 PM

There is more to it than just cutting a disc. Time is involved, and what is time worth?

Subject: RE: How much would you pay for a CD?
From: Fidjit
Date: 24 Oct 10 - 04:17 PM

Well my studio time. A whole weekend. ca 20 hours or more.
Cost me SEK 2000,- = £190 = §300

Cost of running off 100 CD's in Jewel cases with inlays and back and inside pages of colour printing.
Came too SEK 4000,- = £382 = §600

Total cost for 100 CD's SEK 6000,- = £575 = §900

Cost for 1 CD = SEK 60,- = £5.75 = §9

Not included in the costs are the following.
Difficult to access the costs of these items.

All the practice for getting the songs up and running to record.

Cost of Guitar strings (and Guitar. And Concertina)

All the art work and photos that I mostly did myself for the print work inside the Jewel cases.

All the mileage by car backward and forwards to the Studio and the CD production team.

All the Blood, Sweat and Tears.

All the freebies sent to Magazines (that don't print a word about it)

And the ones sent to Folk Radio Stations that never get to play a single track. (Too busy with Kate Rusby, etc. Again).

All the promotional CD packages sent to Festivals and Clubs in the hope of getting a gig.

All the extra replacement Jewel cases.'Cos carting them around they are liable to get cracked and broken.

How can you put a price on that. As part of it all goes with the Gigs involved whilst getting it all ready.

My CD's cost, Ten Quid. OK ?

Still have some left. Stop me and Buy one.

Chas

Subject: RE: How much would you pay for a CD?
From: GUEST,PeterC
Date: 24 Oct 10 - 03:52 PM

An item is "worth" what people are prepared to pay. If that is less than the cost of production then it won't be produced.

Personally I am happy to pay between £10 and £15

Subject: RE: How much would you pay for a CD?
From: Andy Jackson
Date: 24 Oct 10 - 03:33 PM

Sorry but I don't follow the logic of the OP Howard Jones.."that in the digital age it's up to the consumer to decide what something is worth".
It has always been, correctly in my view, for the producer to determine a price for the product. Only he knows the real cost of production and of course the correct level of recompense for artistic contribution.
Yes the cd only cost a few pence to replicate but that is the smallest part of the process.
To answer the original question I am happy to pay around £10 for a CD I want. I have just paid nearly £20 for an L.P. I have been after for years.
As a founder member of a record production company (sounds grand!) I have always believed that it is just as dangerous to undervalue your product as it is to overcharge.
But remember it is the performance and the talent of the performer you are buying the right to enjoy, the value of the plastic and the machinery is meaningless.

Andy

Subject: RE: How much would you pay for a CD?
From: Tim Leaning
Date: 24 Oct 10 - 03:17 PM

£10 is plenty.

Subject: RE: How much would you pay for a CD?
From: gnu
Date: 24 Oct 10 - 03:08 PM

And, don't forget, production costs are an economy of scale.

Subject: RE: How much would you pay for a CD?
From: gnu
Date: 24 Oct 10 - 03:06 PM

You are not paying for "production".

Subject: RE: How much would you pay for a CD?
From: michaelr
Date: 24 Oct 10 - 02:55 PM

I wouldn't call $20 for a CD that cost $1.50 to produce "realistic".

I pay it reluctantly because I love the music, and because I will not resort to illegal downloads. But my feeling is that a price over $10 or so is gouging.

Subject: RE: How much would you pay for a CD?
From: Howard Jones
Date: 24 Oct 10 - 02:05 PM

I find these responses interesting. The implied message on the other thread was that people are expecting to pay less for music (and perhaps prepared to accept lower-quality). The response so far suggests that, in the folk world at least, people do place a value on music and are willing to pay a realistic price for it.

Subject: RE: How much would you pay for a CD?
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 24 Oct 10 - 01:19 PM

Depends upon the artist. I am more inclined to pay £10 to £15 for the little known folk artists we see at festivals than £5 for a well known blues, rock or jazz artist on Amazon.

Subject: RE: How much would you pay for a CD?
From: treewind
Date: 24 Oct 10 - 01:11 PM

When we started recording with WildGoose we followed the WildGoose pricing which made our CDs £13, but after a while we thought that was a bit steep. Now all our WildGoose CDs are £12 if you buy one, £10 if you buy more than one.

Home-brew CDRs like the Pig Dyke Molly Music are £10.

Subject: RE: How much would you pay for a CD?
From: michaelr
Date: 24 Oct 10 - 12:56 PM

Went to a Lunasa concert recently. They were selling their new CD "La Nua" for $20. No way, says I, that's too expensive.

Then I looked for it in stores. Turns out they're not with Compass anymore, so I had to have the record store special-order it.

I paid $18.95. Big savings. Good thing it's a great album.

Subject: RE: How much would you pay for a CD?
From: Dave MacKenzie
Date: 24 Oct 10 - 12:42 PM

The last recording I bought was a (second hand) Bill Monroe LP for £2.99.

Subject: RE: How much would you pay for a CD?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 24 Oct 10 - 12:40 PM

If Winona Ryder was wearing it, I'd pay a lot.

Subject: RE: How much would you pay for a CD?
From: John on the Sunset Coast
Date: 24 Oct 10 - 12:38 PM

Well, I have no problem with a record company dictating a price. I still have the discretion as to whether I will pay that price. If I, and lots of Is will not pay their price, said price will come down until it reaches a price I will pay.

I don't download any thing that I have to pay for over the computer. I'm still enough of a Luddite that I have as little personal economic data on my computer as possible. I figure if hackers can break into UCLA's computer with all its safeguards, how much more easy is it to get into Paypal, to say nothing of my own computer.

Finally, a dollar a track (US that seems to be the norm) is, to my way thinking, is fairly expensive. Not to say that professional CDs are any sort of a bargain at lists of $15-$18. The actual materials cost a few cents, and the duplication likewise. I don't have any idea of the actual cost of the recording session, but it seems to me the talents get the short end. Years ago--the heyday of the 45RPM--a house painter friend wrote a hit song (multiple hundreds of thousand record sold) for which he got a royalty of 1 cent per record sold, and probably my brother and I were the only ones to ever listen to that music. Did I say it was actually the B side of the record? But he got paid as if it were the A side hit.

Subject: RE: How much would you pay for a CD?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 24 Oct 10 - 12:38 PM

$10 or £7:50.

I still have some left BTW :)

Subject: RE: How much would you pay for a CD?
From: artbrooks
Date: 24 Oct 10 - 12:23 PM

To answer the last first, I greatly prefer physical CDs, because then I can play them in the car as well as at home.

I really don't know what the going rate is there. In the US, a "commercial" CD normally costs between $15 and $20 in a music or book store. That would be about £9.5-£13. Sales tax of 7% is on top of that, and that varies by locality. I expect to pay $10-$15 if I buy directly from a performer...normally at the upper range.

Subject: RE: How much would you pay for a CD?
From: Charley Noble
Date: 24 Oct 10 - 12:22 PM

Or in the UK, £10 or so.

But I'd pay much more if I really lusted for it!

I do prefer CD's that are commercial quality. Some of the home computer produced ones self-destruct in car CD players when they get hot.

If I just want to learn the song a download or even a MP3 sample of first verse and chorus is fine and I'd be willing to pay for that as well.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: How much would you pay for a CD?
From: Midchuck
Date: 24 Oct 10 - 12:21 PM

As our two CDs have gotten older, we've gone from selling them for US$15.00, $12.00 or one of each for $20.00. People seem fine with that price. Of course, the bulk of our buyers are middle-aged or older, and aren't into downloading and all that.

Heck, we still have cassettes in inventory, and sell one every now and then for a couple of bucks, usually to an aging hippy with a real old car or truck.

Peter

Subject: RE: How much would you pay for a CD?
From: kendall
Date: 24 Oct 10 - 12:15 PM

The going rate here is $15.00 plus postage.

Subject: How much would you pay for a CD?
From: Howard Jones
Date: 24 Oct 10 - 12:14 PM

This is a spin-off from the "downloads for £1" thread. The point of the discussion is that in the digital age it's up to the consumer to decide what something is worth, rather than for the record company to dictate a price.

So how much would you be prepared to pay for a CD? £5? £10? More, or less? Let's assume you've heard the performer and decided you like their music, and that it's a properly put together product, not a CD-R burned on their PC.

Are you even interested in buying physical CDs or do you prefer downloads?