BS: Political Demo Convention

Subject: RE: BS: Political Demo Convention
From: kendall
Date: 17 Aug 00 - 03:22 PM

Doug R what has the republican party ever done for the common man? Tell me something that compares with Social Security, Minimum wage, overtime, womens right to vote, the creation of unions to protect the working man from the "Robber Barons". Do you really think the repeal of the marriage tax is equal to any of these? I dont believe they have ever done anything that didn't benefit them directly. If I'm wrong, tell me and I will say so on this thread.

Subject: RE: BS: Political Demo Convention
From: Bert
Date: 17 Aug 00 - 03:21 PM

...how much do you think George Bush would get? - Perhaps even more than last time

Subject: RE: BS: Political Demo Convention
From: Whistle Stop
Date: 17 Aug 00 - 03:19 PM

I do think the issue is not just whether to cut taxes, but also how much, and for whom. Most people who move beyond sound bites and get into the particulars recognize that the tax cuts the Rebublicans are most intent on enacting have an impact that disproportionately favors those who need them the least, however they are packaged for public consumption. But the Republicans are getting good at naming, and thereby framing, these issues -- the so-called "marriage tax" and "death tax" make for pretty good sound bites, and since most people don't dig into these issues any deeper than the sound-bite level, the phrasing matters greatly.

I also think it's interesting that a number of people seem to feel the VP nominees are better qualified than the Presidential candidates. I don't necessarily feel that way this time around, but I did several years ago, when I cast the only write-in vote of my life for Lloyd Bentsen, Dukakis's running mate.

Subject: RE: BS: Political Demo Convention
From: kendall
Date: 17 Aug 00 - 03:14 PM

The republicans are desperate for an issue. Tax cuts..budget busting tax cuts. Listen..THERE IS NO SURPLUS!! we have a multi trillion dollar debt (thanks to the Actor) How in the hell can you give a tax cut on a "Projected" surplus? For the first time since Eisenhower we have a balanced budget, now in order to re capture the white house, at any cost, the republicans want to blow it on tax cuts. I would get about $200.00. how much do you think George Bush would get? It is a bogus issue. I repeat THERE IS NO SURPLUS!!

Subject: RE: BS: Political Demo Convention
From: GUEST, Banjo Johnny
Date: 17 Aug 00 - 03:11 PM

Back to the original question for a moment. I'm pretty sure the party is still trying to secure the support of labor unions. Labor -IS- the "traditional" mainstay of the party (not the liberal wing), and the hard hats are dead center. Once they lock down the AFL, UAW, Teamsters etc, they will start paying more attention to the environmentalists. I think they are keeping low-key on the gays and other fringe elements of the left. Don't misunderstand: I'm liberal and proud of it, but I'm trying to be realistic about the need for labor support.

== Johnny in OKC

Subject: RE: BS: Political Demo Convention
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Aug 00 - 01:36 PM

So DougR, who're you going to vote for?

Seriously, I can't really tell the difference. They all say one thing then do another. It's the same old choices: Coke vs Pepsi.

Subject: RE: BS: Political Demo Convention
From: DougR
Date: 17 Aug 00 - 01:04 PM

Susan: Your statement that "the Republicans are concerned only with protecting the wealthy and the Democrats concerned for everybody else" proves only one thing: that the Democratic spinmiesters are more successful than the Republicans at disseminating mis-information.

The major pieces of legislation that have been signed into law and have benefited Americans of all income levels during the past four years, could not have happened without the support of the Republican majority in the congress.

Who is trying to get the marriage tax penalty repealed? The Republicans! Who opposes it? The Democrats!

Surely you don't believe that all married folks are rich.

Who originated the recent legislation that allows millions of Americans over age 65 who wish to continue to work (or must), to keep all they earn without having to lose part of their social security earnings as a penalty for earning too much? The Republicans!

Which party wants to reduce taxes so that people can keep more of what they earn? The Republicans! Who opposes tax cuts? The Democrats. The Democratic spinmiesters would have you believe that tax cuts only benefit the rich. Think about that. Everybody pays taxes, an across the board tax cut can only result in helping everybody!

Only a few examples that show that Republicans are not concerned with just protecting or helping the "rich."

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Political Demo Convention
From: kendall
Date: 17 Aug 00 - 12:53 PM

I did not watch the republican convention, or the Democrat convention. It's very simple for me. I ask myself.."Am I better off than I was 8 years ago?" YES. What have the republicans got for an issue? they act like they are running against Clinton with all that morality crap. That dog just wont hunt, Willy is not running. Here we go again with priorities.. Jefferson humped his slave, Cleveland fathered a love child, Harding was caught in the act in a closet with a white house maid, Roosevelt had a mistress, Ike had one,Kennedy needed a calculator to keep them straight. The Actor traded guns for hostages, lied about it, ran up 3 trillion dollar debt after promising to balance the budget, now along comes Willy, he gets a little nookie on the side and the hypocrites want to hang him. How screwed up can we be?

Subject: RE: BS: Political Demo Convention
From: Susan from California
Date: 17 Aug 00 - 12:33 PM

Sean, It's just politics. The major parties feel that they have to appeal to the "mushy middle" during the race in order to be elected. So during election time it might feel as if the two major (and the only viable--sorry) parties are grossly similar. But don't let that fool you--they are very different. I won't go into a looooong post. because I don't want to write it right now, and you don't probably want to read it :-), but what I do is try to think about WHO the 2 parties want to protect, and I keep coming back to the R's want to protect the wealthy, and the D's want to protect everybody else. Add that to potential Supreme Court nominations, and I know who I am voting for.

As an aside, I went down to the protest area yesterday, and I have to say that in general, things were quite calm until the protesters were surrounded and not allowed into the "pit"--the caged off protest area right next to Staples. I went merely to observe history, and I am predisposed to believe that almost all police officers are good people doing a difficult job. That being said, some of the tactical decisions made were not what I would have done--why keep the protestors FROM THE DESIGNATED PROTEST AREA? Some protesters were just looking for a fight, some were not, but keeping them from that area was kinda dumd, in my opinion, and gave them something to be angry about. Some of the protesters were actually ***alert*** not child friendly**** pissing in bottles, supposedly to throw at the police. Now, just how rude is that? At a rally to protest brutality it seems to me that the protestors would be better off by behaving in a manner that is beyond reproach. Just my opinion...

Subject: RE: BS: Political Demo Convention
From: SeanM
Date: 17 Aug 00 - 02:44 AM

I'm sorry, but as I'm both a Democrat and living in the LA metropolitan area (Long Beach) this kinda gets to me.

What the hell is up with this year? Are these two bozos the best we can do? I see the values that I believed in and supported within the party being minimalized in the all important search for the 'sound bite', and can't believe that any of the two 'parties' are in it for more than corporate goodwill.

I'm damn near 30. I should be heading into the staid predictable period of "things are better for me, so screw you". Instead, I find myself disgusted by the utter disdain that both major parties seem to feel towards the general population.

What happened?

I really wish I knew.

M

Subject: RE: BS: Political Demo Convention
From: catspaw49
Date: 17 Aug 00 - 01:34 AM

Now I know we don't vote for a Vice-President, but as I sit here listening to the replay of Lieberman's speech, I'm overcome with the thought that, all ideology aside, both Lieberman and Cheney are a lot more interesting and act more "Presidential" than Gore or Bush. Forget the positions for a moment and just listen to Joe Lieberman........You can't help but get the idea that the guy is honest and trustworthy. To some degree the same is true of Cheney. They at least LOOK and SOUND the part. They appear to actually have a personality and be people you could sit and talk with.

Now I know this is no way to determine how to vote.....I just find it amusing that the veeps are so much more loose and entertaining than their running mates and that's not generally the case.

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Political Demo Convention
From: DougR
Date: 17 Aug 00 - 01:08 AM

yes, Rick, I'd like to hear that debate too! I like Leiberman. Frankly, I'm not sure he is not best of the bunch. I do think (and understandbly so) he has softened his stance somewhat since getting the nomination. He can't be a successful VP candidate and oppose the nominated President's views, can he?

I'm trying not to let my bias get in the way, but I really was not impressed by any of the speeches tonight though. I think the Democrats (not the common folks but the handlers) are trying so hard to show that this ticket is different from Clinton that they are doing overkill. The common folks (Democrats) still love Clinton in spite of anything. Were he able to run, he would get the nomination again in a split second.

It is puzzeling to me though to see Senator Bob Kerry, an excellent U.S. Senator, (Democrat) trying to distance the party from it's traditional liberal stance.

The only (in my opinion) difference between Democrats and Republicans in the U. S. is that the majority of Democrats are liberal and the majority of Republicans are conservative. I'm not inferring that either party is controlled by extremists on the left or right, but that always seemed to me to be the major difference betweent he two parties. Liberal VS Conservative.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Political Demo Convention
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 17 Aug 00 - 12:50 AM

Geez Doug, next yer gonna be tellin' me that they're tryin' to distance themselves from Bill!!

Actually I thought ol' spiral dork gave a pretty good speech the other night. So did Lieberman tonight. I doubt Gore's will be anywhere near as good, 'cause try as he might he just never looks comfortable. The debates should be great though. I'd love to just listen to Joey and Chaney go at it without the other two.

Rick

Subject: RE: BS: Political Demo Convention
From: katlaughing
Date: 17 Aug 00 - 12:47 AM

There was an interesting discussion on that very thing on Talk of the Nation on NPR, today, DougeR and there was plenty of disagreement among those on the panel. All about them wanting to go more "centrist" and others saying no, we cannot lose that liberalism. Who knows?

Subject: Political Demo Convention
From: DougR
Date: 17 Aug 00 - 12:30 AM

Did any USAers listen to Senator Kerry on the MSNBC show after the speeches tonight. He was on a panel with Brian Edwards, Chris Matthews, Peggy Noonan, and the perennial expert on all things presidential, Doris Kearns Goodwin.

Senator Kerry, who I personally think is a great Senator, was trying valiantly to distance the Democratic Party from liberalism! What's going on here?

DougR