Origins: Rolling Down to Old Maui

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Rollin' Down To Old Maui
From: Lighter
Date: 16 Nov 10 - 07:55 PM

Stuart Frank's brand-new book, "Jolly Sailors Bold" (available from the publisher, Dick Greenhaus's CAMSCO Music)unfortunately adds little to our knowledge of this song.

Besides the two texts that Charley posted three years ago from an article by Frank, the book includes an unedited transcription of Huntington's version from the bark "Atkins Adams." Huntington dated the text to 1858, but Frank's transcription plainly includes the words, "Dec 25 1859 / Bound for St Felix & Masafuera."

Huntington cleaned up the spelling and punctuation of the original considerably. He didn't alter the lyrics or add anything, however.

Thus the song is not known to have existed before the end of 1859.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Rollin' Down To Old Maui
From: shipcmo
Date: 16 Nov 10 - 08:41 AM

refresh

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Rollin' Down To Old Maui
From: Lighter
Date: 01 Feb 10 - 04:15 PM

A year and a half later and nothing new.

Except to say I've searched several extensive 19th C. newspaper and magazine data bases and found no trace of the song.

Also, Colcord's 1938 text seems to have appeared earlier in the 1924 edition of her book.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Rollin' Down To Old Maui
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 15 Aug 08 - 11:00 PM

I don't know or think anything different than a year ago.

I mean generally, not just in regard to this song....

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Rollin' Down To Old Maui
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 15 Aug 08 - 04:07 PM

refresh

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Rollin' Down To Old Maui
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 08 Jun 07 - 08:57 AM

Yes, "sea-girt isles" was almost certainly to be altered in learning the words by ear. Colcord's version calls them "the Seagull Isles."

At least "Sekut" sounds exotic.

An unrelated point: some of the other songs on the _Leviathan_ album (including the now popular "Wings of a Goney") lead me to believe that Lloyd's "Maui" is adapted from Huntington, with a new tune added.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Rollin' Down To Old Maui
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 07 Jun 07 - 02:36 PM

Lahaina is often taken to mean 'place of the Sun,' but never 'hellish sun.' Population in 1970 was about 3200, but now over 9,000. Average July high in the high 80's, nights about 70 F.
Like many low coastal areas in Hawai'i, rainfall approximates 10-15 inches only (like Kona on the Big Island, Waikiki in Oahu and the other tourist hotspots), and humidity is low. It seems hot to those used to cooler climes, but, coming from the southwest, I found it comfortable.
Lahaina Luna (upper or higher) is a little higher, and was the site of an important mission school in the last half of the 19th c. Several early books in Hawaiian were printed there (the original press is still there). Worth a visit to those interested in history.

Some sons of well-to-do settlers in California and other parts of the west were sent to school in Lahaina Luna for the equivalent of post-grade school education, rather than being sent to eastern cities.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Rollin' Down To Old Maui
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 07 Jun 07 - 01:57 PM

1. I have never said anything about a pre-1848 map identifying the Bering Sea as Arctic Sea or Arctic Ocean.
I mentioned that the Bering Sea had also been called the Kamchatka Sea- no more than that was intended.
In one version of the song:
"Six hellish months have passed away
In the cold Kamchatka Sea
But now we're bound from the Arctic ground...."
Clearly, the Kamchatka Sea is called 'Arctic ground' (or in some versions Arctic Sea) by the poet, who may not have been precise in his geographic nomenclature... Did Arctic ... carry a "recognized meaning" for the poet?

2. I never said that the song was pre-1850 or any other date. My post questioned when whalers passed through the Bering Strait, wondering why they had not penetrated into the Chukchi Sea at an earlier date- No more (To answer my own question, it would seem that it was unnecessary, the take was sufficient south of the Strait at the time).

3. My objection throughout is using the 'geography' of the song to date it when most people are, to use Charley's words, 'fluid' about usage. The poet seems to have used 'Arctic ground' or (Arctic sea) to indicate the cold whaling grounds- i. e., if the extant versions follow his original.

4. If the original poem was written to commemorate some event, such as passing through the Strait, surely it would have been garbaged up with more names and places.

Note- 'Sekut Isles' of one version may have been sea-cut or sea-girt isles.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Rollin' Down To Old Maui
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 07 Jun 07 - 11:53 AM

Ah, Q, Q! Find me a pre-1848 map or chart that identifies the Bering Sea as the "Arctic Sea" or "Arctic Ocean" and I'll consider the possibility that the song is older. Till then...

FWIW, I *have* seen an 1824 map that calls the entire Bering Sea the "Kamtschatka [sic] Sea," which in itself doesn't affect the dating of the song. I don't know how long that name was so applied. Perhaps of greater interest is that the map shows much of the coasts of Siberia and (still Russian) Alaska as unknown.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Rollin' Down To Old Maui
From: Charley Noble
Date: 07 Jun 07 - 10:14 AM

refresh

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Rollin' Down To Old Maui
From: Barry Finn
Date: 07 Jun 07 - 03:02 AM

Once in a while a naval training (sailing) vessel would stop at Lahaina (this is back in the late 1970's) & it would seem as if there were sailors everywhere, so a fleet would absolutely overwhelm the place and it's hot, translated Lahaina means mercyless sun the town above Lahaina is name Luna Lahaina, or "Above the mecryless sun", a great place for a fleet of drunken whalers. The town was small even back then (1970's) so go back 100 yrs & it had to be tiny. I read somewhere that one could come close to crossing the channel hopping from deck to deck with the amount of ships at anchor there. The water traffic had to be a sight as there in no inner or outer harbors, only what's called a roadstead & nothing in the way of shelter, the depth for anchorage once off the island shelf is quite deep with strong currents in the channels & the wind barreling down the island slopes. In the winter of 1979 while I was there 26 boats dragged anchor & the following week 29 boats were caught in a second storm anchored off the Lahaina Roadstead, only one out of those survived in tack.

Barry

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Rollin' Down To Old Maui
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 07 Jun 07 - 12:30 AM

Number of whaling vessels-
I localized my figure to a part of the area; the '600+' is for the entire Pacific. The figure was 'in my head' and it took a while to recollect where it came from. Being a memory, it was corrupted. It was from the entry "Whale Fisheries" in the Encyclopaedia Britannica, 1956, which is the latest edition I have.

"Shortly before 1850 the fleet numbered 680 sail in all; and all but 40 odd ships were employed in the Pacific in the pursuit of sperm and right whales. About the same date the right whales found in the neighbourhood of Bering Strait, the bowheads, were hunted for the first time." The author is cited as J. O. B., using references including W. S. Tower, "A History of the American Whale Fishery," 1907.

I apologize for my mistake.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Rollin' Down To Old Maui
From: GUEST,Rev
Date: 06 Jun 07 - 02:26 PM

Yes, anyone who's been to Lahaina knows that it's still a small town, and can probably imagine how crowded it got. Q's estimates are a bit off however. According to Starbuck, the largest number of American ships working the North Pacific in one year was around 300 in 1846. As we have determined, this was before the ships entered the Arctic Ocean, but were working in the areas South of the Bering Straits. The biggest year of Arctic whaling was 1852 during which 278 American ships were working the N. Pacific. The entire worldwide American whaling fleet in those years was around 700 ships. Of course there were also French, German and English whaling ships, but not in huge numbers.

The Sandwich Islands News of Sept. 30, 1846 provides a list of all the whaleships that called at Lahaina from July through September, totaling 94 vessels. Of course this still would have made Lahaina very crowded. For example in late August 1846, there were at least two dozen ships anchored at Lahaina at once. At an average crew of 30 men per ship that's 720 rowdy whalers running around that quaint little town.

Not all of the North Pacific fleet would have stopped in Lahaina at one time, because, as Q points out, there were other ports in the Hawaiian islands at which whalers called, primarily Hilo and Honolulu. The fact that whaler's try-pots have been found all over the islands (really all over the Pacific) does support this fact, but it's important to recognize that all trying-out (rendering) was done at sea. The pots were left ashore at the end of the voyage, to lighten the ship's load as much as possible when whaling was done. These were, in some cases, used by islanders in small shore-whaling ventures, or were repurposed for other uses.

One notable event in this history was the loss of 34 vessels, out of around 70 working the Arctic grounds, in 1871. Though the ships were crushed in the ice, the long time during which the ships were stranded allowed for all hands to be rescued. As a result, around 1200 whalemen ended up stranded in Lahaina and Honolulu, trying to find new ships. It was really the last hurrah for the Arctic whalers, and the Hawaiian newspapers of the day describe the chaos created by that many bored whalemen in town all at once.

Rev

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Rollin' Down To Old Maui
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 06 Jun 07 - 01:26 PM

Lahaina was the famous Maui port, but the huge vats for rendering have been found at other points where ships could anchor. I would imagine that, as the Arctic season ended, Lahaina could get crowded. I have seen estimates of over 600 whalers in a season in the North Pacific-Arctic region.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Rollin' Down To Old Maui
From: Charley Noble
Date: 06 Jun 07 - 09:48 AM

Excellent point, Q. "Geographic terms" can be a fairly fluid as applied by sailors, tourists, and even natives. And, Lord knows, one can even argue over the "correct" spelling for hours.

I note that Hugill in the recently published THE BOSUN'S LOCKER, © 2006, p. 220, says in his reintroduction of "Maui" that "...(it) is probably the work of some Bowhead whaleman who had experienced the rigors of the Kamchatka Sea and warmth of the Ship Girls' welcome." On another page of this excellent book, p. 138, Higill says "This song I would place at an earlier date than the booklet (A. L. Lloyd's LEVIATHAN recording) gives (1850). Maui was the Hawaiian island where Lahaina, the greatest 'homeport' of the Bowhead whalers was situated and whalemen were rolling down from the Arctic to this excellent sheltered haven as early as 1820."

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Rollin' Down To Old Maui
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 05 Jun 07 - 05:35 PM

From an old geography book, "Key to Pelton's Outline Maps," dated 1851, lines to memorize-

Oceans, Seas, Gulfs, Bays, Straits, Channels, and Sounds.
Air- Bonny Doon, or The Winding Way.

"And now the muse delighted runs
To seek the Sound called Washington's;
Prince William Sound is in our way,
Cook's Inlet too, and Bristol Bay.
14
"Pass farther North, on Russian ground,
To take a glance at Norton's Sound;
To Behring's Strait we next shall post
Fast by the Asiatic coast.
15
"To Coronation Gulf we sail,
And feel the Arctic's icy gale;
To Bathurst Inlet next we go,
Where oft the Polar tempests blow."

Questions-
"Describe the Arctic Ocean. Ans. It is one of the largest bodies of water on the globe, lying north of North America, Europe and Asia, around the North Pole, and contains numerous islands."
"Where is the Polar Sea?" Ans. It borders on the north of the Western part of British America, and is a part of the Arctic Ocean."

The tendency then as now is for the average person to call the entire area 'polar' or 'Arctic' ground; I don't think much attention was paid to geographic distinctions except by the people living the experience. Any geographic meaning would be approximate.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Rollin' Down To Old Maui
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 05 Jun 07 - 09:33 AM

Thanks, Charlie. As you said earlier, the "wahine" stanza appears only in the Griffith/Hugill version. Who composed it we don't know; it could have been anyone.

Stan learned the song in the early '20s. My impression is that whalers wouldn't have sung of "painting the beaches red" or waking with "a big fat aching head" seventy-five years earlier. Think Kipling (about 1890 on).

Also, the earlier texts manage to conclude without the stanza, which seems to me to offer a shift in focus as well as tone.

To repeat: my version simply tries to get closer to the original than any single version we have. That's all.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Rollin' Down To Old Maui
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 05 Jun 07 - 09:18 AM

Q, there are bays around St. Lawrence Island, but the Siberian "St. Lawrence Bay" is far larger and more sheltered. It was also known as the place where Captain Cook had first made contact with the Chukchi in 1778. Conceivably the author of "Mohee" had one of the island bays in mind, but anyone familiar with the area would be unlikely to refer to it that way except as poetic license.

"Arctic Sea" and "Arctic ground" appear in all 19th century versions, including the earliest known. "Bering Sea" appears in none. Since "Arctic Sea" carried a recognized geographic meaning, the only legitimate assumption based on the evidence is that the original described Arctic rather than sub-Arctic whaling. Therefore it cannot be earlier than 1848.

It's hard to resist suggesting that the song was actually written to commemorate the opening of the Arctic ground to commercial whaling. It was a dramatic moment for the whaling industry and undoubtedly a romantic event for versifiers.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Rollin' Down To Old Maui
From: Charley Noble
Date: 05 Jun 07 - 08:22 AM

Lighter-

You've done a fine job in my opinion of correlating the verses posted. I've been too busy to attempt that myself.

I note there is not a trace of the last verse that Hugill sang in any of the early versions, which reinforces the likelihood in my opinion that he composed it himself.

I also agree that the "original poem" was probably composed by someone with some academic training, but not necessarily an officer. Some of the crewmen, as with Dana, were relatively well educated and had romantic expectations of what a whaling voyage would be.

Wouldn't it be grand if someone turned up the original poem in a Melville manuscript?

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Rollin' Down To Old Maui
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 05 Jun 07 - 12:28 AM

'St. Lawrence Bay' of the song could be one of the bays of St. Lawrence Island, rather than Zaliv Lavrentiya, at the south entrance of Bering Strait. The 'Kamchatka Sea,' of course, would be what is now called the Bering Sea. What the poet meant geographically by Arctic Sea or Arctic ground is open to question- it could be the Bering Sea, the Strait area, or the southern part of the Chukchi.
That whalers never penetrated far until some time later is pretty well shown by the fact that Wrangel Island was not 'discovered' and named until the whaler Long found it in the late 1860's.

I agree that the song is probably post-1850 and after the bowhead became an established target; my objection is to the attempt to 'date' the song from the 'geography' in the text.
Lacking the original poem, how accurately the extant versions reflect the text of the author also is unknown.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Rollin' Down To Old Maui
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 05 Jun 07 - 12:20 AM

I've compared all the texts and played Bishop Percy with them to construct a plausible nineteenth-century original. I don't claim this *is* the "lost original," or that it's superior to any of the collected or rewritten versions, just that it may be somewhat closer to it than any of the known texts.

Don't bother to complain about my choices and alterations. The original song or poem was written before the Civil War in the diction of the period and that's what I've tried to stick to. Because the song's realistic content outweighs the romantic fancies, my suspicion is that the author had some real connection with the Pacific whaling industry: sailor, ship's officer, company official on Maui, or someone like that.


'Tis an ample share of toil and care
We whale men undergo,
But our labor's o'er; what care we more
How keen the blast doth blow?
"Homeward bound" - 'tis a joyful sound!
Tho' yet it may not be,
We'll not think of that as we laugh and chat
Of the girls of Old Mohee.

Once more we waft on the Northern gales,
And bound far o'er the main;
The verdant hills of the tropic isles
We soon shall view again.
Five sluggish moons have waxed and waned,
Since from your shores sailed we;
But now we are bound from the Arctic ground,
Rolling down to old Mohee.

The vapors bright of the starry height
Aurora's colors did display;
And we slumber'd 'neath the moonbeam's smile
In the silent St. Lawrence Bay.
For many a weary day we toiled
In the wild Kamtschatka Sea;
But as we wrought we laughed and thought
Of the girls of Old Mohee.

Through many a blow of frost and snow,
And bitter squalls of hail,
Our spars were bent and our canvas rent,
As we braved the Northern gale.
But the hoary heads of the sea-girt isles
That deck the Arctic sea,
Are many and many a league astern
As we steer to old Mohee.

Once more we're bound with a fav'ring gale
On towards our distant home;
With mainmast sprung, our courses slung,
Still she proudly rides the foam;
Our stu'n'-s'l booms are carried away,
What care we for the sound?
A living gale is after us:
Hurrah! We're homeward bound!

We'll heave our lead where Diamond Head
Looms up on old Oahu,
Our masts and rigging unsheathed of ice,
Our decks swept clear of snow.
The hurricane on our weather beam,
The breakers on our lee,
And the bristling wind a-whistling past,
Bring tidings of Old Mohee.

We come to the seas where the fragrant breeze
Is filled with odors rare,
And the pretty maids in the sunny glades
Are gentle, kind, and fair.
'Tis their bright eyes look forth each day,
In hope some day to see
Our snow-white sails before the gales
Rolling down to Old Mohee.

And now we have reached our destined port,
No more to plough the seas;
Our cruise is done, our goal is won,
Her head swings in the breeze;
Her yards are square, her decks are clear,
Now to the shore haste we;
And we'll laugh and sing till the nut groves ring
On the Isle of Old Mohee.

O! 'tis heartfelt joy without alloy,
That fills each manly breast;
But dearer yet, far dearer yet,
Is our home o'er the wide sea's breast!
We'll tread once more our native shore,
The land of the brave and free;
And we'll think at home how we used to roam
On the Isle of Old Mohee.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Rollin' Down To Old Maui
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 04 Jun 07 - 07:37 PM

Since the "Arctic Sea" (formerly known also as the "Polar Sea") is described, the song should not have originated earlier than 1848, as Rev says.

"St. Lawrence Bay" is "Zaliv Lavrentiya" in Russian. The town of Lavrentiya is located on its shore, southwest of Uelen, a village near the extreme eastern tip of Siberia.

The "Kamchatka Sea" is considerably to the southwest, off the east coast of the Kamchatka Peninsula.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Rollin' Down To Old Maui
From: Charley Noble
Date: 04 Jun 07 - 05:27 PM

Rev-

You're certainly correct, now that I've rechecked my notes, but "Molly Molloy" does have a nice ring. I wonder how long I've mixed up her name in my mind? ;~(

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Rollin' Down To Old Maui
From: MartinRyan
Date: 04 Jun 07 - 03:53 PM

Thanks for that...

Martin

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Rollin' Down To Old Maui
From: GUEST,Rev
Date: 04 Jun 07 - 03:21 PM

Although, I will say, the name "Molly Molloy" does have a nice ring to it. Maybe that was her stage name when she was a member of Morrigan back in the day.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Rollin' Down To Old Maui
From: GUEST,Rev
Date: 04 Jun 07 - 03:15 PM

Yes Charley, her name is Mary not Molly.
Rev

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Rollin' Down To Old Maui
From: Charley Noble
Date: 04 Jun 07 - 02:49 PM

What a team! We don't even need to consult.

But, Rev, "Stuart and Mary's"?

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Rollin' Down To Old Maui
From: GUEST,Rev
Date: 04 Jun 07 - 02:09 PM

I've been fortunate enough to spend some time at Stuart and Mary's house, and they have a music room/library that is hard to top. Floor to ceiling bookshelves of songbooks, song indexes, and sheet music from the last two centuries... curio cabinets filled with little figurines playing accordions (OK, it's a little weird)... They're both wonderful musicians. And not only did he have this extensive career at the Kendall Whaling Museum, but he previously directed the music program at Mystic Seaport, where he started the sea music festival and symposium that we have all come to know an love. He based it on the Festival of the Sea in San Francisco, where he and Mary first met. His albums on Folkways, are great documents of the sea music revival: Sea Chanties and Forecastle Songs at Mystic Seaport (1978, FW37300), and Songs of Sea and Shore (1980, FW05256).

The pirate songs book is also great. I think there might also be a CD that goes with it. Here's the bibliographic lowdown on it...

Frank, Stuart M. 1998. The Book of Pirate Songs. Sharon, MA.: The Kendall Whaling Museum. (There are 10 copies available on Amazon as we speak).

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Rollin' Down To Old Maui
From: MartinRyan
Date: 04 Jun 07 - 09:59 AM

Charley

Can you post publishing details of the "Book of Pirate Songs", please.

Regards

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Rollin' Down To Old Maui
From: Charley Noble
Date: 04 Jun 07 - 09:50 AM

Rev-

Thanks for posting the supporting information for Stuart Frank's dating of whaling grounds being extended north of the Bering Straits. Frank was "...Executive Director and Chief Curator of the Kendall Whaling Museum in Sharon, Massachusetts from 1981 until its merger with the New Bedford Whaling Museum in 2001. He is currently Director Emeritus of the Kendall Institute and Senior Cirator of the New Bedford Whaling Museum."

He has had access to a vast collection of whaling log books and is an assiduous researcher. He and his wife Molly Malloy have also recorded several fine CD's.

He also has published a definitive book on pirate songs, THE BOOK OF PIRATE SONGS.

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Rollin' Down To Old Maui
From: MartinRyan
Date: 04 Jun 07 - 07:11 AM

Just back from the Cobh Maritime Song festival, where this one threatened to become the song of the weekend, with regular outings at sessions. One of the better ones involved alternate verses in English and Polish!

Regards

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Rollin' Down To Old Maui
From: GUEST,Rev
Date: 04 Jun 07 - 12:23 AM

The history of whaling is pretty well documented Q, and Stuart is one of the best authorities on the topic. The first British and American whalers entered the Pacific in 1787, primarily working the Brazil Banks, and other grounds close to the West Coast of South America. Whalers didn't begin calling at the Hawaiian Islands until 1819. So the song can't have existed before then. According to Starbuck's History of the American Whale Fishery (1877 [1989]), whalers began working the northwest coast of N. America 1835, got up around Kamchatka to begin the bowhead fishery in 1843, and in 1848, Captain Royce of the bark Superior, out of Sag Harbor, N.Y., was the first to work a season North of the Bering Straits. Royce wrote that since they were the first to whales on those grounds, the whales were comparatively tame and easy to strike. So I think 1848 as the very earliest possible date for the song is right. I think the conventional wisdom on "Old Maui" has always been that it dates to the 1850s, but no one has done a definitive study. I myself might take that up when I turn my dissertation into a book, but that's still a couple of years off.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Rollin' Down To Old Maui
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 03 Jun 07 - 10:09 PM

Charley, why did Stuart Frank judge "just before American whaleships first passed through the Bering Strait?" How would he date this?
Bering passed through the Strait in 1728. I would be surprised if no whalers passed from the Kamchatka to the Chukchi Sea quite early. Having sufficient whales in the Kamchaka Sea would be the only reason not to proceed further.

The song does mention the Arctic ground as if it were only the Kamchatka Sea, but the limits of a song also might be the reason. Pretty tenuous reasoning.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Rollin' Down To Old Maui
From: Charley Noble
Date: 03 Jun 07 - 09:13 PM

Dick-

It's either that or it was song in a music hall in Maui or New Bedford. Stuart Frank, as I've posted above, "judges from the historical details that the song dates from the 1840's, "...just before American whaleships first passed through the Bering Strait to pioneer the Arctic Whaling grounds (1848)."

I am quite serious about suggesting that a formal linguistic analysis of the versions would sort this song out. I'd just like to have someone more qualified than myself assume responsibility for doing it. But I'm quite willing to farm it out to a reliable friend in Australia if there is no one at Mudcat with such an inclination. As I've mentioned above the chronology of the logs may only be a rough approximation of when each version of the song was composed, a whole lot better than nothing but not the final say. And the variety of verses extent in the 1850's and 1860's suggests to me that the song was quite well known in the whaling community.

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Rollin' Down To Old Maui
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 03 Jun 07 - 08:22 PM

Can't prove it, but I'm willing to place a small bet that the original appeared in a newspaper or magazine in the mid 1800s. A lot of poetry was published and distributed that way.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Rollin' Down To Old Maui
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 03 Jun 07 - 04:53 PM

Charley, I'm afraid there is no way to tackle the puzzle. All we have are a few texts and some tunes.

Based on the above posts, the apparently independent primary texts in chronological order are:

1858 "Atkins Adams" (Huntington)

1859-63 bark "Waverly" (Frank)

1868-70 ship "Europa" (Frank)

before 1938 Colcord

before 1947 "Guy C. Goss" (Nye/ Harlow)

1967 Lloyd, "Leviathan" LP

1970 Hugill _Spin_ (rpt. in _The Bosun's Locker_ (2006)

Gotta go: more a little later

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Rollin' Down To Old Maui
From: Charley Noble
Date: 03 Jun 07 - 04:26 PM

refresh

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Rollin' Down To Old Maui
From: Charley Noble
Date: 02 Jun 07 - 10:07 AM

Well, gang, we now have so many early versions of this fine song that it presents a challenging puzzle to figure out which version came first, what verses are relics of the original, which verses are primarily later additions.

I'd actually love to have a linguist, folklorist or ethnomusicologist make some suggestions on how to tackle this puzzle. One can't totally trust the log entries, if the writers were transcribing what they heard someone sing, and the date of the log doesn't necessarily tell us when the lines were composed, just when they were written down.

The French version certainly reads well, and is a nice addition.

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Rollin' Down To Old Maui
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 01 Jun 07 - 03:41 PM

Might's well put one that has a French version here.

Lyr. Add: ROLLING DOWN TO OLD MAUI

'Tis a rough tough life of toil and strife
   We whalemen undergo
An' we don't give a damn when the gale is done
   How hard the winds do blow
So we're homeward bound 'tis a damn fine sound
   With a good ship taut an' free
We don't give a damn when we drink our rum
   With the girls of old Maui.

Cho.
Rolling down to old Maui me boys
Rolling down to old Maui
We're homeward bound from the Arctic ground
Rolling down to old Maui

Once more we sailed with a Northerly gale
   Through ice and sleet and rain
And the coconut fronds in the tropic lands
   Ah we soon shall see again
Six hellish months have passed away
   In the cold Kanchatka sea
But now we're bound from the Arctic ground
   Rolling down to old Maui

We'll heave the lead where old Diamond Head
   Lose up an old wahoo (* Looms up on old Oahu)
Our masts and yards are sheathed with ice
   And our decks are hidden from view
Ah the horrid ice of the Sekut Isles
   The deck the Arctic Sea
And miles behind in the frozen win'
   When we steer for old Maui.

How warm the breeze on the tropic seas
   Nor the ice is far astern
And them Oahu maids in the island glades
   Are awaiting our return
And the big black eyes even now look out
   Hoping sometimes they do see
Our baggy sails running 'fore the gales
   Rolling down to old Maui.

Once more we sail with a favourable gale
Aye towards our island home
Our main yards sprung our whaling done
   And we ain't got far to roam
Our stud'l booms are carried away
   What care we for that sound
A living gale is after us
   Thank God we're homeward bound.

And now we're anchored in the bay
   With the Kanakas all around
With chats an' stuff "aloha" way
   They greet us homeward bound
And now ashore we'll have good fun
   We'll paint them beaches red
Waiting in the arms of a Oahii maid
   With a big fat aching head.

FRENCH Version

C'est une vie bien dure de travail et d'ennuis
   Que nous subissons nous les baleineirs
Et on s'en fout quand la tempête s'arrête
   De la force des vents
Nous rentrons chez nous le bruit est beau
   Sur un brave navire en bon état et libre
On s'en fout quand on boit du rhum
   Avec les filles de la vielle Maui.

En tanguant vers la vielle Maui les gars
En tanguant vers la vielle Maui
Nous rentrons chez nous depuis les mers arctiques
En tanguant vers la vielle Maui.

Ene fois encore nous avons mis les voiles devant un coup de vents du Nord
   A travers la glace la neige fondue et la pluie
Et les frondes de noix de coco dans les terres des tropiques
   Bientôt nous les reverrons
Six mois d'enfer se sont écoulés
   Dans la mer froide de Kamchatka
Mais maintenant nous avons quitté les mers arctiques
Tanguant vers la vielle Maui.

Nous lancerons le plomb è sonde où le vieux Cap Diamant
   Nous donners un vieux wahoo
Nos mâs et nos vergues sont recouverts de glace
   Et nos ponts sont invisibles
L'horrible glace des îles Sekut
   Le pont la mer arctique
Sont à plusieurs milles derrière nous dans le vent glacial
   Quand nous mettons le cap sur la vielle Maui.

Comme sont chauds les alizés des mers tropicales
   Maintenant que la glace est loin derrière
Et ces filles d'Oahii dans les clarières des îles
   Attendent notre retour
Et leurs grands yeux noirs nous guettent même maintenant
   Espérant bientôt voir
Nos voiles ventrues par coup de vent arri&$232;re
   Tanguant vers la vielle Maui.

Nous naviguons encore avec un coup de vent arrière favorable
   Oui vers chez nous dans les &$238;les
Nos grandes vergues fendues notre chasse à la baleine terminée
   Nous n'avons plus beaucoup de chemin &$224; faire
Nos bômes ont été emportées
   Nous n'avons aucun souci du bruit
Un coup de vent bien vif nous poursuit
   Dieu merci nous rentrons chez nous.

Maintenant nous sommes mouillés dans la baie
   Les Kanakas autour de nous
Avec de la conversation et tout de la manière "aloha"
   Ils nous ont accueillis à notre retour
Et maintenant à terre nous allons nous faire plaisir
   Nous irons à la plage y semer la pagaille
Bercés dans les bras d'une fille d'Oahii
   Avec une grosse tête qui nous fera mal.

Pp. 54-55, with score, 1995, "Cahiers de chants de marins," No. 2, Le Chasse-Marée/ArMen.
May be heard on Anthologie, vol. 3, Chants des Marins Anglais, Stan Hugill, from the sailor, Paddy Griffith.
* Looms up in old Oahu- See post by Charlie Noble.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Rollin' Down To Old Maui
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 01 Jun 07 - 11:44 AM

Good job, Charley.

A similar mystery us the less known "Diego's Bold Shore," recently recorded by Eliza Carthy. A great rendition of something that doesn't
look like much on Colcord's printed page.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Rollin' Down To Old Maui
From: Charley Noble
Date: 01 Jun 07 - 09:42 AM

Harlow notes that the version of this song printed in CHANTEYING ABOARD AMERICAN SHIPS, p. 243, was given to him by Captain R. W. Nye of the bark Guy C. Goss, who had seen service in the early days of whaling. I don't seem to find theis version of the song above so I'll post it here, pp. 228-230:

ROLLING DOWN TO OLD MAUI (pronounced "Mo-hee")

'Tis now we're bound from the Arctic grounds
A-bounding o'er the main;
And soon the hills of the tropic isles our eyes shall greet again;
Seven long moons have waxed and waned since last from port sailed we,
But now we're bound from the Arctic ground,
Rolling down to old Maui.

Chorus:

Rolling down to old Maui,
Rolling down to old Maui,
With our baggy sails spread before the Arctic gales,
Rolling down to old Maui.

These northern gales they do blow strong,
O'er East Cape well away,
That swept through the mist by the moonbeams kissed
O'er the broad St. Lawrence Bay;
The hoary piles of shoals and isles
That deck the Arctic Sea,
'Tis many and many we've left astern,
Rolling down to old Maui. (CHO)

We'll heave our lead where old Diamond Head
Looms up on old Oahu,
With our sails and rigging all covered with ice
And white our decks below;
With a freshening gale on our port beam,
And breakers on our lee,
As the bristling wind comes whistling past
Sent tidings to old Maui. (CHO)

'Tis a fearful life of strife and care,
We whalemen undergo,
But what care we when the storm is o'er
How hard the blast did blow?
We're homeward bound, 'tis a joyful sound,
With a full ship, tight and free;
We'll not care for that, as we laugh and chat
With the girls of old Maui. (CHO)

I'm quite impressed with the variety of pre-1900 verses we've come up with in this thread. Clearly there were many hands involved in shaping this song from a yet to be discovered original song or poem.

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Rollin' Down To Old Maui
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 01 Jun 07 - 08:32 AM

Guest Rev, Stan's tune, as noted last year, is the 18th Century hit, "The Miller of Dee." A modification of it is used in the shanty, "Lowlands, Lowlands, Low."

When Stan told me about Paddy Griffith's singing, he said specifically that until he published PG's tune in _Spin_, "they'd never found a tune for it. Now this is the tune everyone uses."

He was wrong about "never," since Harlow printed one; but Colcord - one of the very few collectors to give the song - commented regretfully that she hadn't found "the" [sic] tune to which it was sung.

Regarding Huntington's mention of "The Bowery," that tune would require   a very great deal of adaptation to be made to fit "Maui."

The variety of tunes applied to the lyrics suggests that many singers independently set the words to music. That suggests to me that the words circulated more widely as a recitation than as a song.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Rollin' Down To Old Maui
From: Rowan
Date: 01 Jun 07 - 02:59 AM

Further to the use (and pronunciation) of kanaka, in Oz.

Because it was thought (by whites) that real people (meaning whites) could not survive hard yakka in the tropics, particularly the cutting of sugar cane, crews were employed to go blackbirding. Blackbirding was the raiding of (mostly Polynesian) communities for able-bodied people who were "indentured" against their will and brought back to Queensland to slave away on the canefields. The practice continued until the very first Commonwealth Act of the Australian Parliament in 1901, which enacted the White Australia Policy; itself only repealed in about 1965.

Kanakas (pronounced Ka nak a, with the emphasis on the second syllable, in Queensland) formed close-knit communities and there are many descendants in Oz still.

Cheers, Rowan

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Rollin' Down To Old Maui
From: GUEST,Rev
Date: 01 Jun 07 - 12:25 AM

Yes, I didn't mean to imply that Hawaiians used the term as a slur. My point was that was used as a slur by haoles in the early 20th century, but when it was used by haole sailors in the 18th and 19th centuries they did not intend it as a slur. I'd recommend Pukui and Elbert's Hawaiian Dictionary (1986) as being more complete and updated than Judd (written in the '30's), but Judd has grammar lessons that Pukui and Elbert don't have.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Rollin' Down To Old Maui
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 31 May 07 - 11:56 PM

Maoli as an adjective means indigenous, genuine or native; as an adverb it means really, truly, without doubt (Guest Rev is essentially right).

Kanaka means man, human being.
Ka¯naka (the macron should be above the first a) means people in general, the mass of people.
Kanaka as an adjective means manly, strong, or stable.

The spelling and pronunciation is different in other Polynesian languages, but several use the same root as the Hawai'ians.

The word kanaka has never been a slur in the Hawaiian language; only in the mind of some haole (foreigner).
From "The Hawaiian Language and Hawaiian-English Dictionary," Henry P. Judd. This dictionary is small and very incomplete, but it is good for beginners.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Rollin' Down To Old Maui
From: GUEST,Rev
Date: 31 May 07 - 10:56 PM

I learned the verse in question from Geoff Kaufmann, who probably got his version from Stan. It's pretty much the same as Mark cites in the second post of this thread, except that one sings "wahine" instead of "island girl" or "island maid" in the last line. Based on my own research of whalers journals, they certainly were familiar with the word "wahine," quite intimately in fact, but the term "island maid" turns up pretty frequently too, so I think it's a matter of taste. I have never seen the verse in question in any whalers' journals, and am inclined to think that if Hugill didn't write it himself, it was unique to the singer from whom he got the song. As for the tune, it is also unclear if Stan wrote it, but he (almost) definitely originated that tune in folk circles.
Geoff always mispronounced the word "kanaka," singing "KAN-aka." I got a lot of weird looks when I sang it that way the first time I was in Hawai'i. It should be pronounced "ka-NA-ka," which means "person" or "human being" and which was the common Euro-American name for Pacific Islanders, Hawaiians in particular. The posters above are absolutely correct that kanaka seamen were common aboard whalers as well as other trading vessels, etc. The kanakas that Dana writes about were working in the California hide trade, and he basically says they were the finest human beings he had ever "fell in with." The word kanaka, was apparently used as a slur in the early 20th century, but in recent years has been rehabilitated. It's most common usage today is the Hawaiian term "Kanaka maoli" which means a "full-blooded" Native Hawaiian.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Rollin' Down To Old Maui
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 31 May 07 - 10:20 PM

"The hoary heads of the sea girt isles
That deck the Arctic Sea"...

The only versions I've encountered where this section doesn't appear to be mangled. Innaresting.

Subject: Lyr Add: ROLLING DOWN TO OLD MOHEE
From: Charley Noble
Date: 31 May 07 - 10:11 PM

We might as well paste in what Huntington printed (from the DT) since we have several other versions posted in this thread:

ROLLING DOWN TO OLD MOHEE

Once more we are waft by the Northern gales
Bounding over the main,
And now the hills of the tropic isles
We soon shall see again.
Five sluggish moons have waxed and waned
Since from the shore sailed we,
Now we are bound from the Arctic ground
Rolling down to old Mohee.
Now we are bound from the Arctic ground
Rolling down to old Mohee.

Through many a blow of frost and snow
And bitter squalls of hail,
Our spars were bent and our canvas rent
As we braved the northern gale.
The horrid isles of ice cut tiles
That deck the Arctic sea,
Are many, many leagues astern
As we sail to old Mohee.

Through many a gale of snow and hail
Our good ship bore away
And in the midst of the moonbeam's kiss
We slept in St. Lawrence Bay.
And many a day we whiled away
In the bold Kamchatka Sea
And we'll think of that as we laugh and chat
With the girls of old Mohee.

An ample share of toil and care
We whalemen undergo;
But when it's over, what care we
How the bitter blast may blow.
We are homeward bound, that joyful sound,
And yet it may not be,
But we'll think of that as we laugh and chat
With the girls of old Mohee.

From Gale Huntington's book- Songs the Whalemen Sang. Collected
from logbook of Ship Atkins Adams 1858. Huntington says that the
tune comes from Harlow- Chanteying Aboard American Ships; also
thinks he heard it sung to tune of "The Bowery", but isn't sure.
As he points out,"This is a nice song."

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Rollin' Down To Old Maui
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 31 May 07 - 09:48 PM

Gale Huntington, "Songs the Whalemen Sang," credits "Rolling Down to Old Mohee" (pp. 27-28, with score) to the log of the "Atkins Adams," 1858.

I suspect that there is an earlier composed version, but this is based mostly on the dates, and the verses, as given above, by Charley. And the 'feeling' that there is more to be found.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Rollin' Down To Old Maui
From: JudyB
Date: 31 May 07 - 08:19 PM

Interesting! Charley and I should talk one of these days - I had wondered where the song came from.