Subject: RE: BS: Spitzer - The Great Disappointment From: GUEST,Guest Date: 11 Mar 08 - 07:45 PM The hypocrisy/double standard thing has nothing to do w/being prudish and of a judgmental, religious persuasion (though I'm quite certain the very Republican investigators think so). It has to do, I believe, with Spitzer having prosecuted others for the same crime as he himself is alleged to have committed. From the LA Times: "During his two terms as state attorney general, before becoming governor, Spitzer broke up at least two prostitution rings in New York City, including a 2004 case that led to the arrest of 18 people at an escort service." Or does no one read the fine print? I think the calls for resignation is partisan Republican posturing. He shouldn't step down, as it has not been shown he committed a crime at this point. Remember, the NYT broke the story but at this writing he hasn't been charged with anything. That said, a prosecutor as aggressive as he is has lots of enemies on both sides the fence. As to the illegal immigration thing--I would just like to make it clear I am all for giving them drivers licenses, and don't share Rigingslinger's opinions regarding immigration. The recent example from MN is proof enough for me of why we need to bring illegal immigrants in from the cold, and give them legal status. |
Subject: RE: BS: Spitzer - The Great Disappointment From: GUEST,harpgirl Date: 11 Mar 08 - 07:43 PM If he can only afford Brooks Brothers, he has no business paying that much for his prostitutes. Surely he wears custom Zegnas! And the flap is like reading The Scarlet Letter all over again. His wife should divorce him and take all his money! Oh wait, she likes being married to the Governor.... |
Subject: RE: BS: Spitzer - The Great Disappointment From: Big Mick Date: 11 Mar 08 - 07:41 PM The Republicans are laughable on this one. They need only look at the last 5 years to know how morally bankrupt they have been. They should pay Spitzer for taking the heat off them for a few days. This comes down to one thing in my mind. Hypocrisy. He needs to go. Sooner, and not later. It isn't about his honor, it isn't about the party, it is about an electorate that needs to see something that sets a standard for conduct. And the conduct I refer to isn't his sexual proclivity. It is the conduct of passing yourself off as high minded, and ultimately moral crusader against corruption. And all the while you are corrupt. You prosecuted prostitution rings and used them at the same time. Hypocrisy is the crime you are guilt of. Goodbye and good riddance. Mick |
Subject: RE: BS: Spitzer - The Great Disappointment From: Lonesome EJ Date: 11 Mar 08 - 07:14 PM Okay, I was too quick in my judgement about the state government slush fund. This was reported on CNN, but now it is unclear where the money came from. If it was Spitzer's own cash, then he's only got to worry about the interstate prostitute trafficking charge (he flew her from LA to Washington for an overnighter). That's Federal and could be sticky. Should he resign? He is absolutely and completely washed up, in my opinion, and might as well get it over with. How are the mighty fallen. |
Subject: RE: BS: Spitzer - The Great Disappointment From: Peace Date: 11 Mar 08 - 07:12 PM LOL |
Subject: RE: BS: Spitzer - The Great Disappointment From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 11 Mar 08 - 07:11 PM white-colour crime That's an interesting term. ............................................... Just as well Bill Clinton wasn't Governor of New York or I suppose he'd have been in real trouble. |
Subject: RE: BS: Spitzer - The Great Disappointment From: GUEST,meself Date: 11 Mar 08 - 06:55 PM Oh - 'Newsday" - I was thinking 'Newsweek' - |
Subject: RE: BS: Spitzer - The Great Disappointment From: MarkS Date: 11 Mar 08 - 06:26 PM Aw, Come'on. He just thought she was a taxpayer. |
Subject: RE: BS: Spitzer - The Great Disappointment From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 11 Mar 08 - 06:13 PM meself, don't you read tabloid 'journalism'? We have one such in Calgary, called the "Sun." Each issue features a 'Sunshine Girl.' Ahhhhhh...... Excuse me, I was just thinking about the last one. I have no idea of what "Newsday" is, but it could be something like that tabloid. $4000 expensive? Setting up a mistress with apartment, clothes, etc. could cost considerably more than that. Quality costs! If ya got it, flaunt it! Does anyone know what bank held his account? If they rat on their high flyers, they will go broke. |
Subject: RE: BS: Spitzer - The Great Disappointment From: GUEST,meself Date: 11 Mar 08 - 05:42 PM "Newsday offered a picture of Anais, one member of the club" And that's what they call 'news' ... |
Subject: RE: BS: Spitzer - The Great Disappointment From: Stilly River Sage Date: 11 Mar 08 - 05:33 PM Charley, I made a crack about a rugburn vs windburn. Does that count? SRS |
Subject: RE: BS: Spitzer - The Great Disappointment From: Charley Noble Date: 11 Mar 08 - 05:24 PM "how can a guy so smart be so stupid" Evidently the best quip in this whole thread. I'm really disappointed. No puns, no plays on Spitzer's name or the Emperor's Club. Maybe we could work up another parody of "She was Poor but She was Honest," something like "He was Rich but He was Sleezy." Ain't it a bleedin' shame! Cheerily, Charley Noble, bottom feeding with the worst of 'em |
Subject: RE: BS: Spitzer - The Great Disappointment From: Donuel Date: 11 Mar 08 - 05:23 PM natural bodily functions are neither stupid or intelligent. The need to pay $4000 for one is really stupid. |
Subject: RE: BS: Spitzer - The Great Disappointment From: number 6 Date: 11 Mar 08 - 04:25 PM "how can a guy so smart be so stupid" ... former N.Y. mayor Ed Koch in reference to the disgraced Governor Elliot Spitzer. biLL |
Subject: RE: BS: Spitzer - The Great Disappointment From: SINSULL Date: 11 Mar 08 - 04:02 PM Giuliani was in trouble long before his marital woes. He was known as King Rudy and he tried to rule like a despot. Look at the newspaper articles prior to September 11 to see how he was perceived. Anyone who got more attention (read spotlight) than he did was soon on the way out the door. Giuliani's confident handling of the disaster especially on the day and immediately following surprised most of us. |
Subject: RE: BS: Spitzer - The Great Disappointment From: Stilly River Sage Date: 11 Mar 08 - 03:44 PM Those are two groups that neither would benefit from a close examination. Unless you go into office with a public reputation for liberal social/dating/sexual attitudes already in place, I suspect you're pretty well stuck with the typical expectation that you'll keep your nose clean while you're there. I don't think anyone held it against the then-single governor of California Jerry Brown that he dated and at times lived with women. It's when Giuliani trashed a marriage while in office that he got into trouble. I don't follow New York politics that closely, but I'd hazard a guess that it wasn't The War of the Roses on the day he went into office? Not saying one or the other is a reasonable expectation, but they seem to be in place anyway. SRS |
Subject: RE: BS: Spitzer - The Great Disappointment From: Riginslinger Date: 11 Mar 08 - 03:07 PM "It seems that Americans hold politicians to a higher religious moral authority than their clergy." Yeah, we don't expect much out of the clergy! |
Subject: RE: BS: Spitzer - The Great Disappointment From: Donuel Date: 11 Mar 08 - 03:04 PM He made an appointment. So what. I heard that Hillary tapped her foot in the ladies room. It seems that Americans hold politicians to a higher religious moral authority than their clergy. Yet on the other hand we all expect them to lie. If anyone is a hypocrit it is the citizens who pretend to be outraged and the media TV whores who go "eucchh" every time some high profile guy has sex. And thats another thing, I was client #10 and I got no attention whatsoever!!! |
Subject: RE: BS: Spitzer - The Great Disappointment From: SINSULL Date: 11 Mar 08 - 03:02 PM Well your post makes sense out of some news articles which claimed that the agency warned her about his "unusual, dangerous requests." Here I was hoping for details of his deviations and all he did was what half of all Americans do anyway. A few Brits too, I believe. SINS |
Subject: RE: BS: Spitzer - The Great Disappointment From: Peace Date: 11 Mar 08 - 02:58 PM All that and the guy ended up fu#king himself. |
Subject: RE: BS: Spitzer - The Great Disappointment From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 11 Mar 08 - 02:56 PM "Used State Government slush fund to pay.." Where is the verification for this allegation that taxpayer money was involved? According to ABC news, payments made from Spitzer's checking account was reported by someone at his bank and this set the whole thing spinning around. Did the Emperor's Club (the group of call girls involved, headed by Temeka Lewis) have connections with organized crime? The charges are for running an online prostitution service. Charges for money laundering are pending, but seem dubious. The website (now removed) offered services to clients of women ranked from one diamond ($1000) to seven diamonds ($5500 or more) for one hour. (Spitzer paid $2600 for his appointment at the Mayflower Hotel, paying a total of $4300 to Kirsten (ABC News) so he was not a top spender). This gossip from The Guardian (UK). From their adv.- "Emperor's Club vip is the most preferred international social introduction service for those accustomed to excellence. Introducing the most impressive models to leading gentlemen of the world is our expertise. We specialize in introductions of fashion models, pageant winners and exquisite students, graduate and women of successful careers (finance, art, media etc.) to gentlemen of exceptional standards. When seeking an evening date, a weekend travel companion, or a friend to accompany you during your next business/social function our nodels are perfect preference. We act for a select group of educated, refined and successful international clients who give their best in all they do, and who, in return, only wish to receive the best." .... Sounds like an offer of heaven to me! Quick, someone loan me a million or two. Newsday offered a picture of Anais, one member of the club; she has an MA in Public Relations, which sounds like an useful qualification. I could find only a description of Kirsten, Spitzer's date (a petite brunette), but nothing on her other qualifications. ABC says she demanded Spitzer use a condom but he didn't want to. Was this the real crime? |
Subject: RE: BS: Spitzer - The Great Disappointment From: Lonesome EJ Date: 11 Mar 08 - 01:35 PM Oops, sorry. In my haste, I failed to replace the prejudicial term "whores" with the more acceptable "sex workers." |
Subject: RE: BS: Spitzer - The Great Disappointment From: Lonesome EJ Date: 11 Mar 08 - 01:32 PM Shock Horror! A man using prostitutes, and a politician into the bargain! Who would ever have believed it. As said above, anywhere else on earth other than the wildly hypocritical & faux-morality ridden Greatest Country On Earth, no-one would notice & this wouldn't be "news". He was using a State Government slush fund to pay for the whores. That's taxpayer money. There are really no shades of gray in this situation. Out with him. |
Subject: RE: BS: Spitzer - The Great Disappointment From: GUEST,meself Date: 11 Mar 08 - 01:26 PM I could understand all the cries of 'hypocrisy' if this character's schtick was all about 'family values', but I don't see how someone going after white-colour crime then engaging a prostitute makes him any more of a hypocrite than most of the rest of us ... I mean, if an off-duty cop gets caught speeding, do we call him a hypocrite for trying to jail murderers? No doubt I'm missing something - as I say, I haven't been following the politics of NY ... |
Subject: RE: BS: Spitzer - The Great Disappointment From: Riginslinger Date: 11 Mar 08 - 01:15 PM Actually, motor vehicles in the US are regulated on a state by state basis. Nothing seems to be universal, including laws. You can make U-Turns in California; you get a ticket for making a U-Turn in Oregon. Oregon has commercial driver's licenses, but if you don't have one and they catch you driving an 80,000 pound truck, you get a warning. In California, I wouldn't be surprised if you'd go to jail. It's like that from state to state all over. |
Subject: RE: BS: Spitzer - The Great Disappointment From: Richard Bridge Date: 11 Mar 08 - 12:49 PM The USA has no Motor Insurers Bureau? Cuckoo! Cuckoo! THe reason we'd be howling if it were a Republican with his pant down it they take the high moral ground on Christian Values, and underage drinking and underage sex, and homosexuality and etc etc - and then they do it! |
Subject: RE: BS: Spitzer - The Great Disappointment From: Riginslinger Date: 11 Mar 08 - 12:45 PM McGrath - To my knowledge, there is nothing like the act you describe in the states. "As of April 1, a minimum of 50,000 elderly immigrants in NYC will receive letters stating that they will lose their Supplemental Security Income and food stamps..." There is nothing in this post to indicate if the people referenced are legally in the country or not. If they are not legally in the country, a lot of tax payers might be wondering why we'd have 50,000 people drawing SSI in New York City. |
Subject: RE: BS: Spitzer - The Great Disappointment From: Stilly River Sage Date: 11 Mar 08 - 12:44 PM Not much, Kevin, we don't. You'll find something in some states. New York City has a fund a friend tapped into to help pay medical bills after he was hit by a bicyclist riding on a sidewalk. Cross purposes in this thread, like commingling illegal aliens and drunk driving. And Katlaughing wonders why I get on my rhetorical high horse when people inject logical fallacies and straw men into discussions. . . Social Darwinism and outright bigotry are in high gear here, disguised by flawed arguments to do with the unrelated issues of illegal aliens, drunk drivers, and driver's licenses. The only reason I give a rat's ass about Spitzer's fall from grace is because he set himself above others and so assiduously pursued and prosecuted lawbreakers. Any kid who knows the zoo joke about taking gulls over the state lion for immoral porpoises knows about the Mann act. It's silly in consenting adult contexts, but it's on the books because it protects victims of predators and kidnapping and the like. SRS |
Subject: RE: BS: Spitzer - The Great Disappointment From: pdq Date: 11 Mar 08 - 12:39 PM from the first post... "... his more vindictive nature came to the fore, and more time was spent in preposterous suggestions and vicious attacks on his rivals than on doing anything for his citizens." Yes, Spitzer is one of the nastiest political attack dogs in the country. Throw the bum out for any reason, just throw him out. A $5,000 prostitute is going to be offered by organized crime. This makes his ability to deal with such people compromised. As NY's attorney general, he was considered soft on organized crime already. Throw the bum out of town. Now. |
Subject: RE: BS: Spitzer - The Great Disappointment From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 11 Mar 08 - 12:35 PM Ebbie, here is an editorial from the New York Times, March 11, 2008. Under the new welfare reform law, elderly immigrants are targeted. "As of April 1, a minimum of 50,000 elderly immigrants in NYC will receive letters stating that they will lose their Supplemental Security Income and food stamps if they fail to learn enough English to pass a citizenship test. Another 20,000 to 30,000 elderly immigrants will have to endure a process to determine eligibility for certain exemptions under the same law." "Senior centers are the places seniors will run to for help. The centers will be expected to absorb this responsibility with no additional resources for such services as English language and citizenship classes." This looks to me like more of the ridiculous paranoia regarding immigrants. I haven't looked to see if Gov. Spitzer has made any comments on the proposed law, or what his stand is. Perhaps someone, other than hypocritical jackels, will post a reliable article stating his stand. New York City Housing Authority maintains 138 Senior Centers, mostly overseen by NY Dept. for the Aging, 42 city operated, 96 operated by community associations. They provide entertainment, counceling, and most provide meals daily. I don't know if funding is entirely from the City, or partly State funded. A reliable posting would be appreciated. http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9F93AA35752C0A961958260 |
Subject: RE: BS: Spitzer - The Great Disappointment From: Ebbie Date: 11 Mar 08 - 11:44 AM Is anyone but me taken aback at the content of the first post? VoT bemoans Spitzer's fall from grace in the first paragraph but in the second paragraph details far more serious allegations. One would think the second ppg would have led. |
Subject: RE: BS: Spitzer - The Great Disappointment From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 11 Mar 08 - 11:17 AM But that query of mine was a real one, even if off-topic. Do you in the States have anything comparable to the Criminal Injuries Compensation we have in the UK? |
Subject: RE: BS: Spitzer - The Great Disappointment From: Riginslinger Date: 11 Mar 08 - 10:58 AM No. If the driver was a citizen, the victim would have to go after Elliot Spitzer. |
Subject: RE: BS: Spitzer - The Great Disappointment From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 11 Mar 08 - 10:54 AM That would cover all the cases where the drunk or hit-and-run driver was a citizen? |
Subject: RE: BS: Spitzer - The Great Disappointment From: Riginslinger Date: 11 Mar 08 - 10:17 AM "This set me wondering whether there is any compensation from the public purse in the US for victims of crimes? (For example where a driver is uninsured or in a hit-and-run?)" That's a good point. The parents should bring a suit against the federal government for not properly patrolling the border. |
Subject: RE: BS: Spitzer - The Great Disappointment From: Peace Date: 11 Mar 08 - 10:05 AM "Is that because this time it involved money changing hands? I'd have thought that would have made it less damaging rather than more." The poor guy just told the world he has to pay someone in order to get laid. Jeeze . . . . |
Subject: RE: BS: Spitzer - The Great Disappointment From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 11 Mar 08 - 10:03 AM Illegal aliens shouldn't be here. Therefore, they shouldn't be driving. Therefore, they shouldn't have driver's licenses. And therefore they shouldn't be involved in road accidents in which other people are injured... And since this shouldn't happen, of course it wouldn't? This set me wondering whether there is any compensation from the public purse in the US for victims of crimes? (For example where a driver is uninsured or in a hit-and-run?) But maybe this is drifting the thread a bit too far. ....................... From what I've seen it appears that Spitzer isn't getting the same kind of relatively sympathetic support from fellow Democrats as Clinton did when his little secret came out. Is that because this time it involved money changing hands? I'd have thought that would have made it less damaging rather than more. |
Subject: RE: BS: Spitzer - The Great Disappointment From: SINSULL Date: 11 Mar 08 - 08:30 AM $5000 per hour - please tell me this was not taxpayer's money. |
Subject: RE: BS: Spitzer - The Great Disappointment From: Riginslinger Date: 11 Mar 08 - 08:24 AM Exactly! Illegal aliens shouldn't be here. Therefore, they shouldn't be driving. Therefore, they shouldn't have driver's licenses. |
Subject: RE: BS: Spitzer - The Great Disappointment From: SINSULL Date: 11 Mar 08 - 08:23 AM Sheer stupidity and arrogance. And apparently he flew her across state lines which makes his crime a federal offence. Linn says: I, too, think prostitution should be legal -- to give sex workers better working conditions and keep crime and abusers out of the system. I don't know, Linn. $5000 per night plus free air fair sounds pretty good to me. Of course it would mean having to "do" Eliot Spitzer... But in the back of my mind is a little voice saying "What are they trying to distract me from?" and "Why is this coming out in the middle of the primaries?" Is the other shoe about to drop? Is Obama involved? Is Hillary selling her services? Is McCain using veteran's funds for his ladies of the night? And does anyone really care that Spitzer is paying to get laid? GIANT SIGH |
Subject: RE: BS: Spitzer - The Great Disappointment From: GUEST,Guest Date: 11 Mar 08 - 08:19 AM This whole illegal immigrant driving thing is madness. They should be licensed, and every state should have an insurance pool to cover their driving mistakes. We've just had a very tragic one here in MN. Apparently, there were two illegal immigrants in a car that ran a stop sign, slammed into a school bus, and killed four kids. The driver was drunk, and fled the scene, leaving his also drunk girlfriend on the scene. Neither of them was hurt badly, apparently. And this was the morning bus ride to school. Since it happened, there has been talk of seizing license plates of recidivist drivers who drive after their licenses have been suspended or revoked, who kill and injure a whole lot of people. I'm far more worried about the latter outlaw group, though anyone driving who shouldn't be, for whatever reason, concerns me. |
Subject: RE: BS: Spitzer - The Great Disappointment From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 11 Mar 08 - 06:19 AM >I>Yes, it is illegal. Isn't it illegal in the UK? No, and never has been. Various stuff do do with prostitution is illegal - for example brothels, pimping, touting for trade in the street ("soliciting") and kerb-crawling by would-be customers. But the actual transaction isn't illegal on either side. There's some talk about changing this set up - one possibility would be stuff like licensing brothels, another would be to keep the law as it is generally, but to make it a criminal offence for the customers. |
Subject: RE: BS: Spitzer - The Great Disappointment From: Riginslinger Date: 11 Mar 08 - 01:30 AM I don't know. Maybe he's into prostitutes. |
Subject: RE: BS: Spitzer - The Great Disappointment From: Stilly River Sage Date: 11 Mar 08 - 01:28 AM Now why am I NOT surprised that Ron Davies is intrigued by this development? |
Subject: RE: BS: Spitzer - The Great Disappointment From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 10 Mar 08 - 11:55 PM Spitzer's family are successful real estate developers, owning at least one high rise on Fifth Avenue (where he usually lives, spending little time in the Governor's mansion in Albany). He also has a farm property upstate. He is wealthy; his salary is pocket change. This has nothin to do with the hypocrites howling round his door about something that is his private concern. |
Subject: RE: BS: Spitzer - The Great Disappointment From: Ron Davies Date: 10 Mar 08 - 11:42 PM It is interesting, I admit, that Mr. Spitzer is one of Hillary's sterling supporters--and superdelegates. Wonder if this means another one will be slipping away from her. Might be interesting to explore his fundraising for her--if by chance he was as careless with that as with this. |
Subject: RE: BS: Spitzer - The Great Disappointment From: meself Date: 10 Mar 08 - 11:35 PM Better start deputizing the Boy Scouts ... |
Subject: RE: BS: Spitzer - The Great Disappointment From: Ron Davies Date: 10 Mar 08 - 11:27 PM Rig-- Sorry to say that your "illegal alien" mantra really has nothing to do with this issue. Among other things your criticism of Spitzer for his drivers license proposal, still, mirabile dictu, makes no more sense than it did before Spitzer's revelation about prostitutes. It is still better to have as many drivers have licenses as possible. Among other things, it's a powerful incentive to get insurance. You can be hit by an uninsured driver, which your attitude makes more likely. But the problem is that your attitude makes it more likely that the rest of us, who disagree with you and your fellow giant intellects --that is, the sensible ones--are also more likely to be hit by an uninsured driver. If you think that illegal immigrants, deprived of the opportunity for legal licenses, won't drive, you are charmingly naive. |
Subject: RE: BS: Spitzer - The Great Disappointment From: Riginslinger Date: 10 Mar 08 - 11:01 PM "...since when did public service jobs start paying well enough for Spitzer to buy those nice suits & expensive hookers?" Since whoever was running Ronald Reagan tried to destroy America, public employment began to pay much better than real work, because private employees basically lost their right to organize. And, of course, after 1986 huge numbers of illegal aliens were let into the country for the purpose of driving down wages. |
Subject: RE: BS: Spitzer - The Great Disappointment From: number 6 Date: 10 Mar 08 - 09:43 PM Guest .... Spitzer come from a very, very wealthy family. Inherited wealth probably buys those Brook Bros. suits and pays for 'the girls'. biLL |