On not knowing chords - and not helping

Subject: RE: On not knowing chords - and not helping
From: Nick
Date: 18 Dec 10 - 09:02 PM

If I can help I do. It costs me nothing.

And at the same it shows how incredibly smart I am

ROFLAO

Being serious,it is a little strange where someone asks for the chords for really straightforward three chord song but if it helps what the hell. It's nice when people say thank you.

And if you contribute you tend to get things back. I've got to know lots of people over the past few years through here and so it's a small thing to spend a couple of minutes helping someone out.

Subject: RE: On not knowing chords - and not helping
From: The Sandman
Date: 18 Dec 10 - 08:47 PM

yes i agree, its the sort of behaviour i have encountered on www.session .org

Subject: RE: On not knowing chords - and not helping
From: Bobert
Date: 18 Dec 10 - 07:38 PM

One insensitive post does not represent this community...

I'm sure that other folks were more than willing to help...

Reminds me of when I first came here, however, and I would start threads about this or that and some insensitive person told me repeatedly that this or that had already been discussed... Who cares if it had... The point is that new folks come in here with ideas and experiences and questions and that's always a good thing...

B~

Subject: RE: On not knowing chords - and not helping
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 18 Dec 10 - 07:36 PM

I never have trouble looking for Diminished or Augmented chords...
.....................
A question is an invitation to take part in a conversation. So what if the questioner could have used google instead? Anyway Mudcat answers are more likely to be interesting, and lead to finding out stuff you didn't know you wanted to know.

Subject: RE: On not knowing chords - and not helping
From: GUEST,jeff
Date: 18 Dec 10 - 07:25 PM

"I STILL have trouble with Diminished and Augmented chords though"

There's a book I can recommend if you'll take a look at my post. ;-) It may be out of print, though.

Subject: RE: On not knowing chords - and not helping
From: Leadfingers
Date: 18 Dec 10 - 06:37 PM

I still recall how pleased with myself I felt when I actually worked out a Chord Run all by myself for the first time - Ian Tyson's 'Four Strong Winds' ESPECIALLY finding the minor !
I STILL have trouble with Diminshed and Augmented chords though

Subject: RE: On not knowing chords - and not helping
From: GUEST,DWR
Date: 18 Dec 10 - 06:30 PM

Jim, I wish I knew the answer. It's true that some people ask the simplest questions that some of us see and think, WHY didn't they just google their question? In many cases, we know the answer is bound to be there in multiple and easily accessed sites.

But how do we know the circumstances? Is this a person new to computers - they do still exist, you know. Is English the native language of the requester - if not, this could be beyond their skills. What about that rare and elusive quest that sends even the best of us to the edges of our knowledge and even beyond. I know I have spent hours looking up information in my books and internet searches and still failed to come up with a satisfactory answer. Sometimes I hit it lucky and have the satisfaction of giving the information asked for and adding to my own knowledge at the same time.

I usually respond in one of three ways. If it is something close to my areas of interest and knowledge, then I will do what I can to help without recrimination or complaint.

If it's something I know little or nothing about (there's a lot of that going around) then I may make a feeble stab at it, then wait for someone else to come by with the correct response. I may just reassure the person that yes, someone here likely knows, and they should just give them time to find the key to what is wanted.

The third way, of course, is to realize that the question is completely beyond my abilities and interests and just let it go.

I am running short of time right now, but there is a thread that took YEARS to resolve, but is now one of the most satisfying threads that I know of. I will post it later.

At any rate, I do agree wholeheartedly with your premise. I hope all of us can take it to heart and do even a fraction of what you do.

Gotta go. No ti;me even to check my post.

Subject: RE: On not knowing chords - and not helping
From: GUEST,jeff
Date: 18 Dec 10 - 06:11 PM

Been playing for over thirty years and STILL have trouble 'hearing' the difference between a 1 chord and relative minor when in a multi-instrument track. There are subtle 'passing tones' at times easily missed, too. And I went through the 'Mickey Baker' jazz chord book years ago! Still have it. Developing one's ear is a relentless process that takes time. Jumping down someone's throat for asking a novice question is really unacceptable.

Had the privledge of a personal relationship w/Steve Goodman, Carl Martin, Jethro Burns, etc. in Chicago years ago and to a man when I would approach them w/a musical question they would sit with me until I got it. Was playing alot of swing in those days. And they didn't make me feel like shit for my reward.

Also, I recall driving myself crazy trying to figure out 'Hear Comes The Sun' w/o a capo because some jazz player told me it was cheating. Finally I said, "Eff him" and got myself a good Jim Dunlop and have been using one ever since. Shubb for the studio and Kyser for the stage.

Subject: RE: On not knowing chords - and not helping
From: maeve
Date: 18 Dec 10 - 06:03 PM

Jim, I agree of course, and wish I'd seen the request. Did the person in need ever get the chord help?

Maeve

Subject: RE: On not knowing chords - and not helping
From: open mike
Date: 18 Dec 10 - 05:51 PM

It is a good thing, however to suggest that we support musicians
by purchasing their recordings, buying tickets to concerts, etc.
That is a very good way to help them "put bread on the table" and
supporting music and musicians is an important priority!!

Subject: RE: On not knowing chords - and not helping
From: andrew e
Date: 18 Dec 10 - 05:47 PM

Haven't seen the original posting, but reading that is always a lesson for me to not be like that, even in a very small way!
So thank you whoever you are.

Maybe the person who responded had had a bad day! It happens to us all!

Some mudcat requests could easily be answered by a quick search on Google. But there again, the person asking may not know how to do that.

When I first started interneting, it took me quite a few months before I worked out what FAQ meant. It's not obvious!

Subject: RE: On not knowing chords - and not helping
From: GUEST,999
Date: 18 Dec 10 - 05:18 PM

In fact, I will add that that type of response to people looking for chords is sickening. The guy or gal who said that has NO knowledge whether the asker owned the CD or not. There are people who have great difficulty working out relatively simple things in music. Slagging them for that is disgusting.

Also, Jim Dixon has done as much if not more work locating lyrics or melodies than darned near anyone else on this site--at least since I`ve been around the place. When he speaks in this manner, it`d be good to heed his words.

Keep BS in BS--whoever the hell you are. People ask for help when they need it.

Sorry about the rant.

Subject: RE: On not knowing chords - and not helping
From: Tangledwood
Date: 18 Dec 10 - 05:14 PM

Yes Jim, you certainly have my support.
Perhaps there are one or two posters who are too lazy to work things out for themselves; there are plenty that don't have the knowledge. In either case it's not compulsory to post an answer to them if you don't feel like it but there is no excuse for an abusive response.

Subject: RE: On not knowing chords - and not helping
From: GUEST,999
Date: 18 Dec 10 - 05:09 PM

I`m with you, Jim.

BM

Subject: RE: On not knowing chords - and not helping
From: olddude
Date: 18 Dec 10 - 05:05 PM

There is a segment of people on this site that don't know what the word nice means. I find myself spending less and less time anymore and suspect that will continue .. My concern now checking in on Spaw ... I would not advise any guest or newcomer to ask anything lately music or otherwise. It is indeed sad

Subject: RE: On not knowing chords - and not helping
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 18 Dec 10 - 05:04 PM

I support your stance, Jim. We've all been newbies at one time or another, and clueless many times over in various parts of our lives. Some people just hear pitches chord changes better than others, the same as some folks are more athletic or quicker at maths (and I speak as one who's pretty pathetic at both those latter two).

Mudcat's such a great resource - let's not drive people off it before we've even gotten to know them - or they us. The person who doesn't know the chords to some piece of music may be a treasure-trove of song words or local history.

Subject: RE: On not knowing chords - and not helping
From: Mark Clark
Date: 18 Dec 10 - 05:00 PM

Jim, thanks for that. I can understand that people reading a thread might not have time right then to answer fully but to belittle the questioner is beneath contempt. Many people who don't post here much anymore---myself included---used to spend huge amounts of time answering any questions (whether we knew the answers or not <g>) and helping with anything from chords, melody and lyrics to anecdotes and experiences. I guess we all figured we were helping to build something useful.

      - Mark

Subject: RE: On not knowing chords - and not helping
From: Waddon Pete
Date: 18 Dec 10 - 04:43 PM

Jim.....I agree...pity some folks don't.....maybe they'll learn in time (some hope!)

Best wishes,

Peter

Subject: RE: On not knowing chords - and not helping
From: GUEST,Silas
Date: 18 Dec 10 - 04:38 PM

Which thread was it?

Subject: RE: On not knowing chords - and not helping
From: Don Firth
Date: 18 Dec 10 - 04:31 PM

I wholeheartedly agree, Jim. That sort of behavior toward a beginner is absolutely reprehensible. Especially here on Mudcat.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: On not knowing chords - and not helping
From: open mike
Date: 18 Dec 10 - 04:25 PM

I believe most of us came to this site while searching for music, lyrics, chords, etc. and the DT brought us here. This has grown into a community of folks, most of whom are musical. I am glad it is a place
where we all can come for advice and to share our love of music. Hopefully it will continue to be a place where we all can share.

Hopefully, also, people will think twice before criticizing others, especially new comers....i second Jim's comments.

Subject: RE: On not knowing chords - and not helping
From: GUEST,Silas
Date: 18 Dec 10 - 04:19 PM

Yes, i can only agree with all that you have said.

Subject: On not knowing chords - and not helping
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 18 Dec 10 - 04:17 PM

I just read, on another thread, where a newcomer guest to Mudcat asked for chords for a certain song, and someone else, a longtime Mudcatter, gave a sarcastic answer, like (and here I paraphrase:) why don't you buy the CD and figure them out for yourself, you cheap, lazy bastard?

OK, I made up the part about the cheap, lazy bastard, but I felt it was implied.

May I please have some support from other Mudcatters in condemning this type of behavior?

First of all, the responder jumped to some illogical conclusions. How do we know the questioner doesn't already own the CD? (Or at least lawfully own an mp3, having paid to download it?) How do we know the questioner has the skill to figure out chords for himself?

Look, no one was born knowing how to play the guitar. Everybody had to start somewhere. Do you honestly not remember what it was like to be a beginner? Wasn't there a time when you could have used some help?

Why heap scorn on the beginner because he isn't able to figure out chords?

And if you can't say something helpful, why say anything at all?

Even if you're not willing to help, someone else may be—if it's not too late, if the questioner hasn't been driven away by your crass insensitivity.