BS: Let's talk about the US election

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Bill D
Date: 02 Dec 24 - 06:18 PM

Oh phooh! Hunter Biden WAS convicted on counts that would get just a fine if the Rpubs hadn't pushed it for politics.
   Trump has already promised to pardon all those' "patriots" from Jan. 6th.
   Read Joe's complete statement.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: The Sandman
Date: 02 Dec 24 - 01:04 PM

A link from the Guardian exposing the corruption of the Bidens that this is coming out is a positive
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/dec/01/joe-biden-pardons-hunter

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Thompson
Date: 02 Dec 24 - 12:59 PM

Can a president commute the sentences of death row inmates, or can he only pardon them, which could see them freed?

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 02 Dec 24 - 12:40 PM

”More negativity”

And that is itself a negative comment. How about you give us some positives?

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: The Sandman
Date: 02 Dec 24 - 10:31 AM

More negativity

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 02 Dec 24 - 07:42 AM

One of the things Biden could do is to make a really big deal about handing over office in a dignify manner really laying into the lack of dignty when he too office himself on the turnip's part.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 01 Dec 24 - 10:17 PM

The Trump folks had been going after Hunter Biden during the first Trump term, and when Joe Biden was elected he did the presidential thing and let the courts handle the essentially stage-managed case against his son (the special prosecutor in that was a Trump republican but he let it run its course). Now that Biden's leaving office Trump will continue to try to make an example of anyone who displeased him. Joe took the matter out of Trump's hands by pardoning his son, after saying he wouldn't. But as he was saying it I think no one imagined that Trump would be coming back to the White House and all justice is forgotten. I hope Biden is privately writing pardons for all of the Congressional folks who handled to January 6 hearings, because Trump has said he'll go after them also. Make it a pocket pardon - kept under wraps unless it becomes necessary to reveal it. I'm thinking Liz Cheney, Adam Schiff, Cassidy Hutchinson, and others.

Other things he could do to really piss off Trump: commute the sentences of all of the federal death row prisoners and destroy the federal death house. Trump made a big deal of putting a lot of folks to death in his last six months. Biden could step down and make Harris the 47th president of the United States, if only for 2 months. Wouldn't Trump blow a gasket over that!

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: robomatic
Date: 27 Nov 24 - 07:20 PM

I remember very elaborate 3 dimensional wallpaper.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: keberoxu
Date: 27 Nov 24 - 06:26 PM

robomatic, I saw that America/China museum back in the day.
My most vivid memory is of a portrait of a woman with bound feet.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Nov 24 - 04:43 PM

Herd mentality and herd immunity has its costs.
Let me count the ways;
Measles, polio, small pox, dengue fever, covid, women's health...

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Donuel
Date: 26 Nov 24 - 04:12 PM

There are more martial law exceptions as well.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Donuel
Date: 26 Nov 24 - 03:27 PM

The presumption of innocence is not as fundamental as some believe!

The presumption of innocence is considered "reversed" when a legal provision shifts the burden of proof to the defendant, meaning they must actively prove their innocence instead of the prosecution having to prove their guilt beyond a reasonable doubt; this is often referred to as a "reverse onus" clause and can be seen as a violation of the principle of "innocent until proven guilty.".
Key points about a reversed presumption of innocence:
Reverse onus provisions:
Laws that explicitly state the accused must prove their innocence on a specific element of the crime, often requiring only a "balance of probabilities" standard instead of "beyond a reasonable doubt."
Impact on fair trial:
A significant concern with reversed presumption of innocence is that it can undermine the fundamental right to a fair trial, as the accused may be convicted even if there is reasonable doubt about their guilt.
Strict interpretation:
Courts generally scrutinize reverse onus clauses carefully, and will only uphold them if they are deemed necessary and proportionate to the crime in question.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: robomatic
Date: 26 Nov 24 - 02:11 PM

Regarding China and drug trade:

I was once bicycling in Eastern Massachusetts and stumbled upon a small museum (of the American China Trade) that was being maintained in a sea captain's former house. The docents there were very hospitable and in telling me of the nefarious trade where the British and Scottish companies sold Opium to the Chinese, one of them bent low towards my face and said: "WE had 10% of that trade!"

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 26 Nov 24 - 08:54 AM

That is only applicable to cases that are tried, Dick. If they are not tried the burden of proof does not even enter into it.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: gillymor
Date: 26 Nov 24 - 08:44 AM

Now that Trump has received further assurance that he's above the law expect his criminal behavior to kick into a higher gear. His packed SCOTUS and weeny GOP congress aren't likely to offer much resistance.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: The Sandman
Date: 26 Nov 24 - 07:03 AM

Dave. the usa justice system
Presumption of Innocence; Proof Beyond a Reasonable Doubt

It is a cardinal principle of our system of justice that every person accused of a crime is presumed to be innocent unless and until his or her guilt is established beyond a reasonable doubt. The presumption is not a mere formality. It is a matter of the most important substance.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Donuel
Date: 26 Nov 24 - 06:59 AM

I do not know if opioids are State sponsored by China to poison the USA. I am sure China remembers the British opium wars well. China may be sending drugs only for profit or maybe just for death and destruction, or both.

The Mexican/Columbian drug cartels were losing money due to the fatal doses of Fentanyl so they have reduced the Fentanyl content and recently fewer deaths are reported in the US due to drugs. Some say NARCAN is responsible for the drop but only slightly. The southern drug cartels are all profit motivated.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 26 Nov 24 - 05:46 AM

> an additional 10% tariff

If your only tool is a hammer ....

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: The Sandman
Date: 26 Nov 24 - 03:17 AM

how about Trumps policy to stop drugs leaving china?
He has said an additional 10% tariff will be levied on China until the government there blocks smuggling of the synthetic opioid fentanyl from the country.
is this a good or bad policy

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Helen
Date: 25 Nov 24 - 11:21 PM

Well everyone has to be vetted at the border, don't they? And I think it would be heavenly justice for Trump, who claims to be a Christian, to be told in no uncertain terms to head for the down escalator, no correspondence will be entered into. :-D

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 25 Nov 24 - 10:03 PM

I don't think St. Peter will have any transactions with Mr. Trump. Do you? He's got a fast track to the hot place.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Helen
Date: 25 Nov 24 - 08:21 PM

Whether he gets convicted in the earthly realm is one thing, but he will be assessed and "sentenced" by St Peter at heaven's gate, and I'm guessing St Peter won't be swayed by human intervention, either by Trump himself or his minions. :-D

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 25 Nov 24 - 07:25 PM

Smith hasn't said whether he will retain the case to be tried later. The State of Georgia still has a RICO case and that will wait till 2029.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 25 Nov 24 - 05:30 PM

He is neither guilty nor innocent, Dick. The case not being tried proves nothing.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: The Sandman
Date: 25 Nov 24 - 04:57 PM

So Trump is not guilty.
and Trump has won the latest election.
we cannot change it

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Helen
Date: 25 Nov 24 - 04:48 PM

Sorry, the quote marks went haywire:


"'The government's position on the merits of the defendant’s prosecution has not changed,' the motion says. 'But the circumstances have.'"

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Helen
Date: 25 Nov 24 - 04:46 PM

Back to the topic:

Donald Trump's criminal prosecution for election subversion and mishandling documents to be discontinued

"US prosecutors have decided to drop two criminal cases against president-elect Donald Trump.

"Special prosecutor Jack Smith has told courts in Washington DC and Florida he is discontinuing the cases, which related to alleged election interference and mishandling of classified documents.

"In a motion filed in Washington, he cited a longstanding Department of Justice (DOJ) policy not to prosecute a sitting president.

"'The government's position on the merits of the defendant’s prosecution has not changed,' the motion says."

"But the circumstances have."

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 25 Nov 24 - 11:17 AM

”do not know why you feel a need to please unreasonable ad hominem voices.”

Dave has asked previously, and I’ll ask again - who are these ‘unreasonable ad hominem voices’ of whom you speak? Unless you’re prepared to grow a pair of cojones and identify those you accuse, they might as well just be ‘voices in your head’.

”Why threaten me?”

Because it’s your unintelligible gobbledygook?

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 25 Nov 24 - 09:27 AM

Strangely I think, things have changed. When elections were about the mass media - remember that thing about Nixon? Would you buy a car of this man?   he looked shifty (as though he hadn't shaved, some people said) compared to Kennedy's clean preppy look.

It was like Stereo - Kennedy coming out of one speaker - Nixon the other.

Compare that to today - whilst the internet has given us avenues of expression, somehow the voices are not as clear and authoritative.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 24 Nov 24 - 06:33 PM

We don't need the esoteric gobbledygook, Don. I'll delete this stuff if you keep it up.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Nov 24 - 05:33 PM

https://afsa.org/crisis-russian-white-house-1993

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Nov 24 - 04:16 PM

Democrat and Chronicle.
I did radio and TV in my 20s. The only media training I had was to not swivel in a swivel chair on air, but instead of defining me how about defining the Trump voter.

I would say 20% are just dopamine addicted to Trump. 20% are influenced by repetition or friends. 30% are WCN religiously told to vote for Trump and another 30% who are up for grabs depending upon the opponent.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 24 Nov 24 - 03:53 PM

I could Google it of course but where is the fun in that?

I have no idea what the D&C paper or the Russian Whitehouse are...

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Nov 24 - 03:44 PM

I am reminded that I made the D&C paper in an interview for calling the analysis of the CIA gobbledygook. This was right before the Russian Whitehouse was attacked, much to our surprise.

that was back during my 15 minutes of fame;^/

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 24 Nov 24 - 03:06 PM

”So, who are they then? These craven sub-humans who are beneath you?”

Well, Dave, I’m sincerely hoping that none of us who contribute to this thread fall into Don’s list of ‘Craven sub-humans’. I don’t see anyone here behaving ‘like an ass’ and calling that ‘freedom’.

But who knows? Don’s posts are so often a diatribe of unintelligible gobbledygook, it’s seldom possible for us mere mortals to be sure of what he speaks.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 24 Nov 24 - 01:35 PM

I define 'usual suspects' as those who do not see or report the real world but more often see the world from within their own craven hearts which is a dank and hateful place. Their embarrassment is usually unseen by themselves. They behave like an ass and call that freedom.

So, who are they then? These craven sub-humans who are beneath you?

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: The Sandman
Date: 24 Nov 24 - 12:30 PM

Trump called Harris a socialist, very wide of the mark and inaccurate

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 24 Nov 24 - 12:18 PM

The Democratic party in 1900 was essentially the Republican party today. Many things have reversed over time.

Right now they want to pour the cash from government coffers into the pockets of the uber rich. While somehow convincing people that they are behaving this way for their benefit.

There are a lot of tall silos around that are echo chambers of their own material. Not participating on places like Twitter/X now but not deleting it so there is a view into that world is part of the discovery process.

The main qualification for selection on the 2025 Trump cabinet seems to be "As Seen on TV." But to be aware of the thoughts of those citizens who voted against their own self-interest, we need to look far beyond the broadcast channels. And listen to AM radio - it's all right there.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Nov 24 - 12:04 PM

Election interference/cheating is in the Democratic Party historic playbook as much as the historic Republicans. They often called it an equality of cheating this State for that State but since the W Bush administration it is largely a Republican game. The shenanigans after the civil war was a complex and nefarious mess. The Democratic party rode the coat tails of racism into 1900.

I define 'usual suspects' as those who do not see or report the real world but more often see the world from within their own craven hearts which is a dank and hateful place. Their embarrassment is usually unseen by themselves. They behave like an ass and call that freedom.

The Republicans may end up proving how well government actually works after they rid the country of valuable services and fair justice.
Right now they want government so small they can drown it in the bath tub.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: robomatic
Date: 23 Nov 24 - 05:39 PM

"loser"
- young TRMP

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: The Sandman
Date: 23 Nov 24 - 03:27 PM

In this world which is getting more and more closely interconnected, we have to learn to tolerate each other. We have to learn to put up with the fact that some people say things that we don't like. We can only live together in that way, and if we are to live together and not die together we must learn the kind of charity and kind of tolerance which is absolutely vital to the continuation of human life on this planet.”
— Bertrand Russell, BBC Face to Face Interview (5 March 1959)

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: robomatic
Date: 23 Nov 24 - 03:11 PM

Trump is an American version (to some extent) of Silvio Berlusconi, who was a three times Prime Minister of Italia. Trump has way more power, but there are similarities in his media background and personality. There are significant differences in personality and the complicated and varied politics of the changing United States.
Today National Public Radio did an article on the leaps made in the Hispanic community by the Republicans this election, which are going to be credited to Trump and are likely to be lasting.

I've been ignoring a lot of the blame shuffling going on but I think that article is a keeper.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: The Sandman
Date: 23 Nov 24 - 01:56 PM

well said Big AL

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Helen
Date: 23 Nov 24 - 01:05 PM

I'm glad I made your day, Rain Dog. LOL

To be more specific, in my opinion, if there was ever going to be election interference, it would more likely be by the Republicans than the Democrats.

Sorry, my perspective is from Oz, one person one vote, no electoral college mayhem and with a rigorously protected democratic system. :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 23 Nov 24 - 10:55 AM

Tammany Hall is an antidote for that idea (this time around).

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Rain Dog
Date: 23 Nov 24 - 10:49 AM

"It seems the usual suspects don't look at media outside their own comfort zone."

I would say that the vast majority of us do not look at media outside our comfort zones. It is not just those who disagree with us.


"In my opinion, if there was ever going to be election interference, it would never be by the Democrats."

That comment made me smile.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: gillymor
Date: 23 Nov 24 - 10:34 AM

When it comes to staffing his new administration Trump seems to have a type-19thnews.org/2024/11/sexual-misconduct-allegations-trump-cabinet-picks

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 23 Nov 24 - 10:15 AM

ACLU has been studying the Project 2025/Plan 47 stuff and probably has documents being drawn up if they aren't finished already. The states will do a lot of heavy lifting to push back against Trump crap.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Donuel
Date: 23 Nov 24 - 08:05 AM

Vought was an author of project 2025 and has been named to head the Office of Management and Budget.


Folks in the government know you don't get paid unless the OMB and Treasury Department agree.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 23 Nov 24 - 06:10 AM

well I suppose the weirdest thing (and there are many weird things going on) is the way you are viewing this, and thinking of what to do.

The election is a fait accompli - votes have been cast. By the rules of the game Trump has won. Its his turn to have the big cars, secret service men, steal all movables, and screw the interns.

In England we thought Trump was such a plonker that no one would vote for him. I was quite surprisedwhen American friends told me that all their families back home would be voting for Trump.

Rather than calling Republican voters names , or thinking that there has been a procedural error - maybe there was somthing in the Trump manifesto that sensible people did respond to.

Then all you have to do is pretend that its your idea and promise it will be your top priority, even if you think its a lousy idea and you have no interest in or intention to enact the policy.

Thats how it works in England.