BS: Sailors kidnapped by Revolutionary Guard

Subject: RE: BS: Sailors kidnapped by Revolutionary Guard
From: Little Hawk
Date: 02 Apr 07 - 10:29 PM

Sounds like a good way for everyone to pretend that honor has been satisfied... I like it.

Subject: RE: BS: Sailors kidnapped by Revolutionary Guard
From: Ron Davies
Date: 02 Apr 07 - 10:04 PM

Supposedly the outlines of a deal are now being worked out--source: AP ( I think, the same source as BB's report.)


Proposed deal:

1) All the captives go free.
2) UK says we never apologized.
3) Iran says UK tacitly acknowledged that the border area is in dispute. UK does not deny this.

Subject: RE: BS: Sailors kidnapped by Revolutionary Guard
From: Charley Noble
Date: 02 Apr 07 - 09:31 PM

Maybe the negotiating teams could settle the whole affair with a wholesome game of chess. No nukes allowed and no cloaked pieces!

Then they could all sit down together for some lamb BBQ and saffron rice.

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Sailors kidnapped by Revolutionary Guard
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 02 Apr 07 - 09:26 PM

Looks like Blair has been taking lessons in Diplomacy from the US.... now that's a terrifying thought...

It appears that the US _AND_ UK have been Diplomatically outmanoeuvred by Iran.... hehehehehe!

Subject: RE: BS: Sailors kidnapped by Revolutionary Guard
From: Peace
Date: 02 Apr 07 - 05:56 PM

Both.

(We came REAL close in Canada, too, when Stockwell Day was giving it a go. He makes George Bush look like a genius. Thank about that for a sec.)

Subject: RE: BS: Sailors kidnapped by Revolutionary Guard
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 02 Apr 07 - 05:00 PM

"...led by a band of religious-lunatic arseholes

That's Iran or the USA?

Subject: RE: BS: Sailors kidnapped by Revolutionary Guard
From: Little Hawk
Date: 02 Apr 07 - 04:45 PM

Well, that's an improvement.

Subject: RE: BS: Sailors kidnapped by Revolutionary Guard
From: Charley Noble
Date: 02 Apr 07 - 04:40 PM

Thanks for the post, BB.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Sailors kidnapped by Revolutionary Guard
From: beardedbruce
Date: 02 Apr 07 - 03:34 PM

Iranian diplomat: No need to try Britons By NASSER KARIMI
44 minutes ago



TEHRAN, Iran -       Iran's chief international negotiator on Monday called for an end to "the language of force" in the dispute over 15 British sailors captured in contested waters of the Persian Gulf and said there was no need to put the crew on trial.

ADVERTISEMENT

The comments from Ali Larijani, who last week had suggested that the crew "may face a legal path," came as both Iran and Britain appeared to be seeking a way to soften their approach to the dispute. Earlier Monday, Iranian state radio said there would be no more broadcasts of the detained crew, though it said all 15 captive Britons had admitted illegally entering Iranian waters.

And in London, an official said Britain had agreed to consider discussing with Iran how to avoid future disputes over contested waters in the Persian Gulf. The official spoke on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the dispute.

Larijani said his country's priority "is to solve the problem through proper diplomatic channels."

"We are not interested in letting this issue get further complicated," he told Britain's Channel 4 television news. "We definitely believe that this issue can be resolved and there is no need for any trial."

Britain contends the sailors were in Iraqi waters, however, and has refused Iranian demands for an apology. It has also criticized the airing of footage of four of the sailors confessing so far, saying the statements appeared coerced and the broadcasting of captured military personnel violated international norms.

Larijani, the top Iranian negotiator in all his country's foreign dealings, had suggested last week that the eight sailors and seven marines might be put on trial. Iranian television has aired footage of several of the crew members appearing to admit that they trespassed in Iraqi waters.

Larijani called for all involved to stop using "the language of force."

"There is a difference of view between the UK government and the Iranian government, and this issue should be resolved bilaterally," he said.

On Britain's part, "a guarantee must be given that such violation will not be repeated," he added,

Larijani also called for a delegation "to review the case, to clarify the case, first of all — to clarify whether they have been in our territorial waters at all." He did not say who might be in such a delegation.

"Through sensationalism, you cannot solve the problem," he said.

In video Sunday, the captives appeared on the state-run Arabic-language TV channel Al-Alam in separate clips, pointing at the same map of the Persian Gulf.

The first sailor, who was identified as Royal Marine Capt. Chris Air, said the Iranians supplied the group with GPS coordinates which he said were "apparently" in Iranian waters.

Air pointed with a pen to a location on the map where he said two boats left a warship of the U.S.-led coalition in       Iraq around 8:30 a.m. on March 23. He said the seven marines and eight navy sailors were captured around 10 a.m.

He said "we were seized apparently at this point here on their maps and on the GPS they've shown us, which is inside Iranian territorial waters."

The second sailor, identified as Lt. Felix Carman, pointed to an area on the map and said that location was where he and the 14 others were arrested.

"I'd like to say to the Iranian people, I can understand why you are so angry about our intrusion into your waters," he said.

Britain has released its own maps and GPS coordinates showing their location to be in Iraqi waters at the time of the capture.

In a letter sent in response to a note from Iranian officials, Britain agreed to consider discussions about how to avoid similar disputes in the future, said the British official. Britain's response — most of which has been kept secret — may have prompted the report Monday from Iran's state-run radio.

British Prime Minister       Tony Blair's spokesman earlier in the day called the broadcast confessions "stage-managed," and said Britain had not changed its demand for the sailors' unconditional release.

The 15 Britons were detained by Iranian naval units on March 23 while patrolling for smugglers as part of a U.N.-mandated force monitoring the Persian Gulf. They were seized by Iranian naval units near the mouth of the Shatt al-Arab, a waterway that has long been a disputed dividing line between Iraq and Iran.

Al-Alam broadcast longer videos of the Britons earlier this week, including footage on Friday of captured marine Nathan Thomas Summers apologizing for entering Iranian waters "without permission" and admitting to trespassing in Iranian waters.

Al-Alam also aired video on Wednesday showing Faye Turney, the only woman in the group, wearing a headscarf and saying: "Obviously we trespassed." Iran has also made public three letters purportedly written by Turney. The last letter contained an apology.

Subject: RE: BS: Sailors kidnapped by Revolutionary Guard
From: Amos
Date: 02 Apr 07 - 02:32 PM

Sorry - I meant this does NOT sound like a powerful government, rather a confused and squabbling one.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Sailors kidnapped by Revolutionary Guard
From: dianavan
Date: 02 Apr 07 - 02:30 PM

Amos - Do you mean it does or doesn't sound like a powerful govt.?

bobad - I think Ahmadinejad is on his way out but I don't think that it will change the theocracy. Regardless, the boundary issue has to be resolved. If you listen to Scofield on that same link, he gives a good explanation of why the boundary is in dispute.

Subject: RE: BS: Sailors kidnapped by Revolutionary Guard
From: Amos
Date: 02 Apr 07 - 01:23 PM

Inside view from an Iranian-US citizenr ecently returned from a viit to family in Tehran:

1. The economy is a madhouse with individual eggs selling for $20, although gas is cheap at $1/gal.
2. No-one seems to have any faith in the President or his government.
3. There is no unity of voice or decision and no central decision authority between President, Ayatollah, Prime Minister and other branches. So they woffle and dispute and contradict each other a lot.
4. The city is terrorized by crime with multiple doors on every home and poeple taking their sereos out of their cars even if just going away for an hour, for fear the car will be stripped on their return.
5. He says as far as he can see the hunger is wide spread and not limited to Tehran.

It does sound like this is a powerful nation standing up to the bullying of the international community to me.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Sailors kidnapped by Revolutionary Guard
From: bobad
Date: 02 Apr 07 - 01:05 PM

On this morning's CBC radio program The Current, a reporter being interviewed in Tehran said that Ahmadinejad had no real power, that he was just a loud mouth and troublemaker.

You can hear it here.

Subject: RE: BS: Sailors kidnapped by Revolutionary Guard
From: dianavan
Date: 02 Apr 07 - 12:36 PM

Strollin' Johnny -

I don't think its the "religous nutcases" in Iran who are running this show - its President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad and his Revolutionary Guard. The Mullahs don't always agree with each other or with Ahmadinejad and we don't really know where they stand at this time. I don't think you can pin this on the Mullahs. Ahmadinejad is the radical, even by Iranian standards.

Yes, it was a minor incident but Blair backed Ahmadinejad into a corner by seeking international support - that transformed it to a major incident. Blair should have negotiated with Iran directly like in the past.

Subject: RE: BS: Sailors kidnapped by Revolutionary Guard
From: Charley Noble
Date: 02 Apr 07 - 09:09 AM

Whoops, I see that "The Pig War" took place in 1859 before our uncivil war, which would make Captain Pickett a future Confederate officier, not a former one. Sorry for any confusion.

The U.S. general in command by the way was the apparent "arsehole" in this dispute and was later shifted away from the Pacific Northwest to the St. Louis, Missouri, area where he kept inventory for the army stockyard there; he retired in 1863 after not being offered a "fighting" command.

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Sailors kidnapped by Revolutionary Guard
From: Donuel
Date: 02 Apr 07 - 09:05 AM

The laeder of the free world went on to call the UK marines "hostages" which was a word that the "president" of the UK was trying to avoid.

Subject: RE: BS: Sailors kidnapped by Revolutionary Guard
From: Charley Noble
Date: 02 Apr 07 - 08:36 AM

Oh, here's a link to the "Pig War of Puget Sound" for those who are willing to be distracted from the current debate: Click at Your Own Risk!

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Sailors kidnapped by Revolutionary Guard
From: Charley Noble
Date: 02 Apr 07 - 08:31 AM

Strollin' Johnny-

Claification accepted and apologies offered in return.

What you were saying "...led by a band of religious-lunatic arseholes, in turn led by a scruffy, unkempt, lying, religious-lunatic arsehole..." still seems to me like an undiplomatic jinguistic statement but it may be an accurate one. But none of us, that I'm aware of, holds diplomatic credentials. Let the shit fly!

Back in the 19th century the U.S. sent soldiers ashore onto a disputed island in Puget Sound, a dispute generated in part by the shooting of a pig. The U.S. forces were led by a former Confederate officier who had led a dramatically unsuccessful charge at the Battle of Gettysbug in our uncivil war. The British sent in major naval units from neighboring Victoria but before the island (or the fleet) was blown to bits cooler heads managed to achieve a compromise. Hopefully a settlement will be achieved in the above incident, the British soldiers and sailors appropriately court martialed for being sensible rather than maintaining the traditional stiff upper lip.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Sailors kidnapped by Revolutionary Guard
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 02 Apr 07 - 07:07 AM

Charley - I didn't say that all Iranians are arseholes, just that certain powerful Iranians are Arseholes. I stand by that.

What's clear is that the religious-nutcases that run the show in Iran are absolutely determined to use this incident to 'prove' to the ordinary people of Iran who live in abject fear of them just how 'powerful' they are. They will continue to lie through their teeth until they've wrung the last ounce of profit from what was, and should have been treated as, a very minor incident.

Subject: RE: BS: Sailors kidnapped by Revolutionary Guard
From: Donuel
Date: 02 Apr 07 - 07:00 AM

Finally the great President Bush weighed in on the issue.

he said "THe PResident of Britain needs to handle this situation"

Subject: RE: BS: Sailors kidnapped by Revolutionary Guard
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 02 Apr 07 - 05:53 AM

Off line till after Easter.
Best wishes all.
keith.

Subject: RE: BS: Sailors kidnapped by Revolutionary Guard
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 02 Apr 07 - 04:04 AM

Dianavan
You have recently been making much of the "fact" that no recognised border exists.
Dianavan,the line of the border has played no part in this dispute.
The maps produced by BOTH sides do actualy show the SAME border!
All the dispute has been about which side of that AGREED border events took place.
The initial co ordinates given by Iran were on the Iraqi side of the agreed line.
When that was pointed out, they changed the co ordinates and not the line.
The mischief making pundits and experts on international boundaries ignore the fact that in the absence of a treaty, a practical day to day agreement has to be made or you will have a battle every day.

Subject: RE: BS: Sailors kidnapped by Revolutionary Guard
From: Ebbie
Date: 02 Apr 07 - 03:31 AM

I don't know nuttin' about the water borders off Iran. I do know that very often a country - and sometimes a state- claims sovereignty in the ocean beyond what its neighbors and other powers allow, whether it's three miles, 12 miles or 20.

Subject: RE: BS: Sailors kidnapped by Revolutionary Guard
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 02 Apr 07 - 02:59 AM

"it is OK for Iran unilaterally to declare a border, but not the British. "

So... it is OK for The British unilaterally to declare a border, but not Iran.

So... it is OK for The US unilaterally to declare a border, but not Iran.

So... it is OK for Iran unilaterally to declare a border, but not The US.

So... it is OK for Blind Freddie unilaterally to declare ...

I'm getting dizzy here...

Subject: RE: BS: Sailors kidnapped by Revolutionary Guard
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 02 Apr 07 - 02:40 AM

So, DV, if you re-read what you said, you say it is OK for Iran unilaterally to declare a border (which, as it happens, it seems they actually hadn't despite their squabbling), but not the British. That is an unacceptable double standard.

Subject: RE: BS: Sailors kidnapped by Revolutionary Guard
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 02 Apr 07 - 02:22 AM

"Leave no stone unthrown in this debate!"

I think you meant "Leave no stone unthrown in this debacle!"

Subject: RE: BS: Sailors kidnapped by Revolutionary Guard
From: dianavan
Date: 01 Apr 07 - 10:30 PM

We've been discussing this as if the boundary was clear cut and as if incidents such as this had never happened before. The Brits know full well that the Shatt al-arab is a very sensitive issue. Saddam tore up the 1975 agreement and went to war with Iran for control of the Shatt al-arab. Since then, there has been no agreement regarding this waterway and, in fact, Iranians have fiercely defended it. Its not as if Britain was unaware of this. Its happened before.

"Following eight years of inconclusive warfare, the issue of the border in the waterway remained unresolved, hence Iran's determination to punish any breach, real or imagined. As a result Iran retains a strong military and naval presence in the area and is prepared to use them. Ever since the invasion of Iraq in 2003 and subsequent occupation of the southern area by coalition forces, British patrols have reported that they regularly come under attack from Iranian forces while using the waterway."

http://www.sundayherald.com/news/heraldnews/display.var.1284398.0.0.php

"The arrests of the eight British sailors in 2004 was a "very symbolic act," Charles Tripp, a Middle East specialist at the University of London, told Associated Press at the time. "It is a very sensitive border for which three-quarters of a million Iranians died."

The eight British servicemen were blindfolded and paraded on Iran's state-run television, which was seen as a powerful message to pro-Western Arab states such as the United Arab Emirates and Qatar, proof that Iran could flex its muscles against a powerful western nations such as Britain.

Iran later denied London's allegation that it forced the eight servicemen into its territorial waters and then detained them in a premeditated show of force."

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20070323.wbritprev0323/BNStory/Front

In 2004 it only took 3 days of direct negotiation with Iran to secure the release of the sailors. Why was it that this time Britain seemed to be incapable of negotiating a release? Blair went to the U.N. and the E.U. and the U.S. seeking help. Why? Was he trying to find an excuse to go to war?

I'm very glad that the U.N. and the E.U. were not fooled into backing an invasion. Whats worse is that Blair and Bush were probably in this together. I hope Iran can prevent a war and hold the warmongers at arms length until they have the ability to defend their country.

...and some of you can see no reason why Iran would feel threatened? Give your head a shake.

Subject: RE: BS: Sailors kidnapped by Revolutionary Guard
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 01 Apr 07 - 09:58 PM

You talk as if all the Iranians can do is respond to the evil British. In fact, it should be very easy for them to release the sailors AND save face - they've already broadcast images of them "confessing"; all they need to do is release them and make some kind of grandiose, insulting statement, and the matter will be over. Obviously, whoever is holding the sailors wants to prolong the crisis, possibly for reasons of domestic politics.

As to Blair "running to the U.N., the E.U. and the U.S." - we have no idea what's going on behind the scenes. Blair's activities may well be the visible part of a tactical scheme that is not being advertised.

Subject: RE: BS: Sailors kidnapped by Revolutionary Guard
From: dianavan
Date: 01 Apr 07 - 09:27 PM

Not exactly, Richard.

Iran may have been acting upon what they (and the Iraqis) believed to be the boundary - or at least one that has been respected by both countries. Its called local knowlege. The Brits appeared on the scene and they made their own map and decided where they thought they boundary was without international consensus. I doubt if the Brits bothered to consult with Iran regarding the boundary, either.

For Blair to state, in the boldest of terms, that he was absolutely right was more than political posturing, it was a bold face lie.

Iran could have detained the sailors and let them go with a warning but Blair (instead of negotiating their return) created an international incident out of it which put Iran in an uncompromising position. In other words, if Blair was going to make a big deal out of it by running to the U.N., the E.U. and the U.S., Iran may have decided to keep the sailors until the question of the boundary was settled once and for all.

Subject: RE: BS: Sailors kidnapped by Revolutionary Guard
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 01 Apr 07 - 08:31 PM

So, DV, if you accept that if either the UK personnel were on the right side of a line, or there is no agreed line, then Iran is wrong. It is only if there is an agreed line and the UK were the wrong side of it that the UK is wrong. Capish?

Subject: RE: BS: Sailors kidnapped by Revolutionary Guard
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 01 Apr 07 - 07:38 PM

The bastards can afford to pay terrorists and try to create fissionable material.

Just like us in fact... But on a rather smaller scale.

And they don't seem to treat their captives in the same imaginative ways   developed in places like Abu Ghaib and Guantanamo Bay.

Of course that doesn't mean the Iranian captors don't fall far short of decent behaviour. Just not quite so far short as some other people.

Subject: RE: BS: Sailors kidnapped by Revolutionary Guard
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 01 Apr 07 - 07:27 PM

"Pride is part of everyone's cultural identity (hopefully) but for Persian's it HUGE."

So what? It's not like the Brits are renowned for their humility ... Iran - well, really, the Republican Guards, we shouldn't drag the rest of the unfortunate citizens of that unfortunate country into this - should have thought about their country's precious pride before they made it look like so ridiculous and petty in front of the world ...

Subject: RE: BS: Sailors kidnapped by Revolutionary Guard
From: Charley Noble
Date: 01 Apr 07 - 07:21 PM

"However it seems perfectly acceptable to the Yanks when they do it to others..."

Perfectly acceptable to the Bush Administration, one might clarify, and they have few qualms about hiring other countries to do what they do not have the stomach to do.

Such comparisons are likely to reflect well on the current treatment of the British detainees by the Iranians who control them. Perhaps it's better to simply refer to the Iranians as "arseholes" as Strolling Johnny does above and forget about what the Bush Administration does.

Leave no stone unthrown in this debate!

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Sailors kidnapped by Revolutionary Guard
From: dianavan
Date: 01 Apr 07 - 07:12 PM

Peace - Of course you're right. Pride is part of everyone's cultural identity (hopefully) but for Persian's it HUGE.

Ebbie - I know there is nothing wrong with fear. It is not, however, what motivates me. If you want to discuss this further, either PM me or start a separate thread on the subject.

Richard - Thats right. Read the article. There are no internationally recognized boundaries. I would guess, however, that the locals (Iran and Iraq) do have a working knowlege of the boundaries. Britain, on the other hand, is not local. Why were the Brits sent to patrol waters that were in dispute? Why does Britain think that they get to establish the boundaries?

I wouldn't doubt that Iran created this situation just so that Iraq and Iran could settle the question once and for all. With the threat of an invasion looming, its probably a good thing to have it absolutely clear. After all, Iran will want to protect its borders.

Lets hope that internationally recognized boundaries will be established, Britain will agree not to cross those boundaries and that the hostages will be returned shortly.

Subject: RE: BS: Sailors kidnapped by Revolutionary Guard
From: folk1e
Date: 01 Apr 07 - 06:30 PM

now now boys........

Subject: RE: BS: Sailors kidnapped by Revolutionary Guard
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 01 Apr 07 - 06:26 PM

"I hope the chained and hooded Brits are soon released it is so humiliating, only uncivilised nations use such cruel methods. "

However it seems perfectly acceptable to the Yanks when they do it to others...

Oh, I see, you mean...

Subject: RE: BS: Sailors kidnapped by Revolutionary Guard
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 01 Apr 07 - 06:18 PM

Err- have a short think. If there are no agreed boundaries, then the UK forces could not have been on the wrong side of the boundary, and the Iranian attempt to assert a boundary is a matter of illegitimate territorial aggrandisement.

If there are boundaries (revert to usual stuff about Sat-nav)

Subject: RE: BS: Sailors kidnapped by Revolutionary Guard
From: Ebbie
Date: 01 Apr 07 - 06:14 PM

Anything posted publicly can be responded to publicly.

There's nothing wrong with fear. At times it keeps one alive.

Subject: RE: BS: Sailors kidnapped by Revolutionary Guard
From: Peace
Date: 01 Apr 07 - 06:04 PM

"Iranian pride is part of their cultural identity. "

Pride is part of everyone's cultural identity.

Subject: RE: BS: Sailors kidnapped by Revolutionary Guard
From: dianavan
Date: 01 Apr 07 - 05:58 PM

I should have said, Iranian pride instead of Iranian 'honour". Two different things, really. Iranian pride is part of their cultural identity.

Ebbie, don't be so catty. I'm not operating 'out of fear'. Don't presume to know what motivates me. I am saying that I would be too intimidated to enter a political discussion with men face to face or to express disagreement.

If you have something to contribute to the thread, please do so. Otherwise, I'd prefer a PM.

Subject: RE: BS: Sailors kidnapped by Revolutionary Guard
From: Ebbie
Date: 01 Apr 07 - 04:49 PM

"I think you should look at the posting history of this thread. Maybe someone can figure out the appoximate number of women who are able to express their opinion openly without fear of being scoffed at. I am not trying to say that all women hold the same opinion as me but I am saying that not many even dare express themselves, regardless of what they are thinking." dianavan

I wouldn't read too much into it, dianavan. I, like perhaps other women, am reading and thinking about this. I don't know enough factual things about the situation, and I'd rather not conjecture from a position of ignorance. When I know what I'm talking about, being scoffed at- by either men or women - doesn't worry me.

As for being "anonymous", it seems to me that you are operating out of fear.

Subject: RE: BS: Sailors kidnapped by Revolutionary Guard
From: Peace
Date: 01 Apr 07 - 04:46 PM

Insanity: Doing what you've always done and thinking you'll get different results.

Subject: RE: BS: Sailors kidnapped by Revolutionary Guard
From: GUEST,heric
Date: 01 Apr 07 - 04:30 PM

Yes we have that little problem, too, in addition to the lying. God damn the neocons.

But remember the last ones held were subjected to repeated mock executions. It's not necessarily just a funny scarf and silly scripts.

Subject: RE: BS: Sailors kidnapped by Revolutionary Guard
From: ard mhacha
Date: 01 Apr 07 - 04:19 PM

I hope the chained and hooded Brits are soon released it is so humiliating, only uncivilised nations use such cruel methods.

Subject: RE: BS: Sailors kidnapped by Revolutionary Guard
From: Barry Finn
Date: 01 Apr 07 - 02:52 PM

I hope that they're both at least thinking,,,,,,,,,of each other. I'm not betting on it though.

Barry

Subject: RE: BS: Sailors kidnapped by Revolutionary Guard
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 01 Apr 07 - 02:50 PM

"One thing for certain, Iranian 'honour' is not something to take lightly"

I hope somewhere some Arab is saying, "British 'honour' is not something to take lightly" ...

Subject: RE: BS: Sailors kidnapped by Revolutionary Guard
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 01 Apr 07 - 02:47 PM

Cross-posting: my "what about it?" was in response to GUESTBob's comment.

Subject: RE: BS: Sailors kidnapped by Revolutionary Guard
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 01 Apr 07 - 02:38 PM

"One thing for certain, Iranian 'honour' is not something to take lightly"

If Iranians had the slightest trace of honour they would not allow themselves to be led by a band of religious-lunatic arseholes, in turn led by a scruffy, unkempt, lying, religious-lunatic arsehole, towards a nuclear arms race which they can only lose by.

The commander of HMS Cornwall acted to orders, Dianavan. The British Navy does NOT run about like a band of wild-west cowboys, firing off rounds at anything that moves. They are a highly-trained and disciplined force. His reaction during the incident was governed by standing orders which take into account the politics at play out there at the moment, and by a very high level of training. Your comments suggesting that he somehow failed show how little grasp you have of what really goes on, and how easy it is to be a smart-arse when you're sitting safely and comfortably out of harm's way in British Columbia.

Subject: RE: BS: Sailors kidnapped by Revolutionary Guard
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 01 Apr 07 - 02:19 PM

Um ... what about it?

Subject: RE: BS: Sailors kidnapped by Revolutionary Guard
From: dianavan
Date: 01 Apr 07 - 02:19 PM

Keith, Blair had no evidence at all.

"But what about the map the Ministry of Defence produced on Tuesday, with territorial boundaries set out by a clear red line, and the co-ordinates of the incident marked in relation to it?

I have news for you. Those boundaries are fake. They were drawn up by the MoD. They are not agreed or recognised by any international authority."



http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/article-23391078-details/How+I+know+Blair+faked+Iran+map/article.do