BS: Obama is a socialist

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: CarolC
Date: 30 Oct 08 - 03:42 AM

On the subject of Ayers and the Wood Fund - if that one rubs off on Obama because of their association on the Chicago Annenberg Challenge board, then it also rubs off on McCain because of his association with the Annenbergs who were the ones who put Ayers on the CAC board.

That's why McCarthy was eventually discredited. Because nobody can avoid being tarred through guilt by association, including those who finger point with the most vigor.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: CarolC
Date: 30 Oct 08 - 03:35 AM

I don't have a problem with either of them giving him money. I'm pointing out the hypocrisy of those, including McCain and his people, who are condemning Obama for something that McCain has himself done, even more so.

People who condemn others for what they (or their candidates) are doing themselves, don't get taken seriously, and for good reason. They don't deserve to be taken seriously.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Sawzaw
Date: 30 Oct 08 - 02:30 AM

So Obama gives Khalidi money and that's ok. No problem. It's only if McCain gives Khalidi money that it becomes a problem?

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Sawzaw
Date: 30 Oct 08 - 02:20 AM

The Woods fund where Ayers is a board member:

This new Fund focused on welfare reform, affordable housing, the quality of public schools, race and class disparities in the juvenile justice system, and tax policy as a tool in reducing poverty. The Fund supported the concept of an expanding welfare state allocating ever-increasing amounts of money to the public school system, and the redistribution of wealth via taxes

A notable Woods board member is William Ayers, who in the 1960s was a member of the terrorist group Weatherman, and was a wanted fugitive for over a decade as a result of the group's bombing campaign; today Ayers is a Professor of Education at the University of Illinois. In 2002 the Woods Fund made a grant to Northwestern University Law School's Children and Family Justice Center, where Ayers' wife, Bernardine Dohrn, was employed. Barack Obama was one of Ayers' fellow Woods Fund board members at that time....

...The Woods Fund has given sizable grants to ... the Arab American Action Network; ... Trinity United Church of Christ (where Barack Obama was a congregant)... the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now (ACORN);

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: CarolC
Date: 30 Oct 08 - 01:41 AM

If McCain was willing to give Khalidi a half million dollars, I don't think anyone supporting McCain can say (without looking foolish) that it's not ok for Obama to have dinner with him.

And it's still a double standard to use any connections Obama has with Ayers as a way to smear him while completely ignoring McCain's connections with Ayers, and also with Oliver North, and G. Gordon Liddy...


'Does John McCain "pal around with terrorists?"

Certainly McCain's continuing "association" and relationship with the convicted Watergate burglar and domestic terrorist G. Gordon Liddy might suggest that is the case, if we are to apply the standards drawn by the McCain campaign.

In 1998, Liddy gave a fundraiser in his Scottsdale, Arizona home for McCain's senatorial re-election campaign -- the two posed for photographs together; and as recently as May, 2007, as a presidential candidate, McCain was a guest on Liddy's syndicated radio show. Inexplicably, McCain heaped praise on his host's values. During the segment, McCain said he was "proud" of Liddy, and praised Liddy's "adherence to the principles and philosophies that keep our nation great." From the program:

    LIDDY: Your experience in the Hanoi Hilton is remarkable. I mean, I put in five years in a prison [for masterminding the Watergate burglary, and associated crimes], but it was here in the United States, and they didn't torture - the only torture that I had was being forced to listen to rap music from time to time.

    McCAIN: Well, you know, I'm proud of you. I'm proud of your family. I'm proud to know your son, Tom, who's a great and wonderful guy. And it's always a pleasure for me to come on your program, Gordon. And congratulations on your continued success and adherence to the principles and philosophies that keep our nation great.

Which of Liddy's "principles and philosophies" was McCain referring to? Liddy's advocacy of break-ins? Firebombings? Assassinations? Kidnappings? Taking target practice with figures nicknamed Bill and Hillary?

During the same period that Bill Ayers was a member of the Weather Underground, Gordon Liddy was making plans to firebomb a Washington think tank, assassinate a prominent journalist, undertake the Watergate burglary, break into the office of Daniel Ellsberg's psychiatrist, and kidnap anti-war protesters at the 1972 Republican convention.

Re: Liddy's "continued success and adherence to the principles and philosophies that keep our nation great:" Did McCain mean to include Liddy's instructions to listeners of his radio show in 1994 (around the time Ayres and Obama were on a board together discussing education programs and other plots) on how to shoot Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms agents (aim for the head)?

If ATF agents attempt to curtail a citizen's gun ownership, Liddy counseled, "Well, if the Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms comes to disarm you and they are bearing arms, resist them with arms. Go for a head shot; they're going to be wearing bulletproof vests."

More recently, Liddy explained making the Clintons objects of shooting practice: "I did relate that on the 4th of July of last year, when I and my family and some friends were out firing away at a properly-constructed rifle range and we ran out of targets, and so we - I drew some stick figure targets and I thought we ought to give them names. So I named them Bill and Hillary, thought it might improve my aim. It didn't. My aim is good anyway. Now, having said that, I accept no responsibility for somebody shooting up the White House."'

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/carl-bernstein/ayers-and-the-mccain-g-go_b_134256.html

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Amos
Date: 30 Oct 08 - 01:30 AM

No "off" button, I take it?

YAwn.



A

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Sawzaw
Date: 30 Oct 08 - 01:25 AM

It was a celebration of Palestinian culture -- a night of music, dancing and a dash of politics. Local Arab Americans were bidding farewell to Rashid Khalidi, an internationally known scholar, critic of Israel and advocate for Palestinian rights, who was leaving town for a job in New York.

A special tribute came from Khalidi's friend and frequent dinner companion, the young state Sen. Barack Obama.

I wonder If McCain dines frequently with Khalidi and his wife.

I think the fact that Ayers (whom Obama claims to not associate with) and Obama jointly, gave money to Khalidi, is an important aspect.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Amos
Date: 30 Oct 08 - 01:16 AM

Well and good. Except that Ayers--who is apparently a reformed and serious education specialist--makes not one goddamn crumb of difference to the nature, potential, merit or value of Obama. None, Nil. Ero-zay. Zilch.

Go flap your arms in some other zoo where they will believe you really are a bright yellow flamingo.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Sawzaw
Date: 30 Oct 08 - 01:14 AM

Bobert is good with figgerin out folks ages when such an such happened so how old are Obama's kids and Ayers kids Bobert?

David Axelrod, Obama campaign manager:

"Bill Ayers lives in his neighborhood. Their kids attend the same school," he said. "They're certainly friendly, they know each other, as anyone whose kids go to school together."

More Info

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: CarolC
Date: 30 Oct 08 - 12:34 AM

So McCain gives Khalidi a half million dollars and that's ok. No problem. It's only if Obama gives Khalidi any money that it becomes a problem?

Fortunately anyone with any intelligence can see these double standards for what they are.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Sawzaw
Date: 30 Oct 08 - 12:14 AM

Bobert, take out the ol' Wes Ginny slide rool and figger out how old Obama was when he sat on the Woods board (hint: it ain't made outa wood) with Ayers handin out $110,000 to Khalidi for the Arab American Action Network.

And how old was he when he sat on the CAC board with Ayers handin out millions for a failed social engeneering experiment in education. And $2 million to Mike Klonsky, the Marxist, Maoist Leninist leader of the New Communist Movement, who along with Ayers, Dohrn, and other radicals formed Students for a Democratic Society, formed the "October League," which later became the "Communist Party (Marxist Leninist) CP[ML]." After Mao's death, the Chinese communist leadership said CP[ML] reflected the aspirations of the proletariat and working people.

Jesus Christ on a pogo stick, how many commies, socialists, radicals, Muslims and crooks does Obama associate with anyway? Every time I do a little searching another one pops up.

How can Obama be so stupid as to not know about these peoples past and distance himself?

Ayers gives him a political coming out party and he don't know Ayers?

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Amos
Date: 29 Oct 08 - 10:54 PM

Hell, GfS, no-one denies that loose associations of millionaires and billionaires have always had (since there were such animals) great fistfuls of power and the desire to use same to their own ends, better or worse.

The issue becomes whether the government of by and for people at large allows itself to become completely co-opted by such power structures, or only somewhat.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Riginslinger
Date: 29 Oct 08 - 09:19 PM

Yeah, he looks like a white haired Mr. Spock.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Ebbie
Date: 29 Oct 08 - 08:43 PM

Bryzinzky advised Obama.....and Bush...and Clinton...and Reagan...and Bush Sr...and Carter....and..well, you fill in the spaces...

Now let's not pass this one over, all you spinners...." Glutton for Insanity

Ya can't even spell 'Brezinski'; you are on a par with the Zbenew Brezinski I found a moment ago. lol

That idiot shivers in his boots as he gasps out that ZB is a member of the Bilderberg's group. What is the matter with you two? Do you really expect to be taken seriously?


"Brezinski, who stood out for his relatively hawkish views in an administration that often emphasized human rights, told the crowd that by invading Iraq the "United States has become engaged in what is essentially a colonial war in the post-colonial era." He also opined that the Iraq war "has discredited America worldwide," and warned that the conflict in Iraq might spread to Iran, Afghanistan and Pakistan.

"Saying Obama "was not, like many others, a Johnny-come-lately" with regard to realizing that the Iraq war was a so-called "fool's enterprise," Brezinski told the members of the crowd that they had the opportunity to change the world by supporting the Illinois senator.

"In August, Brezinski supported Obama during a foreign policy spat between the Illinois senator and his chief rival, Sen. Hillary Clinton, D-New York. In addition to advising President Carter, Brezinski also was adviser to officials in the Kennedy and Johnson administrations."

Yep, he is scary, all right.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 29 Oct 08 - 08:06 PM

ughh hmm(clears throat)Guilt by association??..I just posted this a short while ago..was this more than 'guilt by association..or perhaps a little more??????

Bryzinzky advised Obama.....and Bush...and Clinton...and Reagan...and Bush Sr...and Carter....and..well, you fill in the spaces...

Now let's not pass this one over, all you spinners....

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Bobert
Date: 29 Oct 08 - 07:24 PM

So it's guilt by association???

Ya' have one guy who was 8 years old who 30 years later meets a guy who did some dumb stuff in the 60's and...

...then another guy, who in his 60's and 70's voted for the current failed policies of the Bush administartion 92% of the time???

Don't take the Wes Ginny Slide Rule to tell ya' which one is most dangerous...

But really, folks... Sawz arguments are just destractions form the real differences between Obama and his guy and really have nothing to do with this election...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: artbrooks
Date: 29 Oct 08 - 07:05 PM

Of course, we must never forget that serial killer John Wayne Gacy was a Chicago resident, a Democratic Party activist and allegedly well acquainted with Rosalyn Carter. His attorney, Sam L. Amirante, was a judge in Cook County while Senator Obama was practicing law there...how's THAT for a relationship!! Much closer and far more suspicious than Obama's (or McCain's) with Professor Ayers! Who knows what they talked about during those mysterious "recesses to the judge's chambers"?

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Don Firth
Date: 29 Oct 08 - 07:03 PM

"This is your feeble attempt at guilt by assocaition."

THIS coming from YOU, Sawzaw!??

THAT's as snort!!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Sawzaw
Date: 29 Oct 08 - 06:41 PM

Ok Amos so what is the bottom line of the information you dug up?

Did Obama and his associate Ayers, cooperate on the CAC?____________

Was it a failure? _________

Is this an preview of what Obama will do with education if he is prez? __________________

Is Bill Ayers a Marxist associated with Obama? ___________


Did the ideology of of Bill Ayers and his associate Obama feed back thru Annenberg somehow and influence McCain? _____________

Is Annenberg running for public office? _________

This is your feeble attempt at guilt by assocaition.

You have such a weak case that you need to prop it up with rhetorical name calling.

Now would you care to describe Ayres and Obama's cooperation on the Woods Fund?

"Barak Obama was the only 8 year old in the WeatherUnderground"

How old was Obama when Ayers was in Caracas calling people Comrade?

Ayers in 2006: "Despite being under constant attack from within and from abroad, the Bolivarian revolution has made astonishing strides in a brief period: from the Mission Simoncito to the Mission Robinson to the Mission Ribas to the Mission Sucre, to the Bolivarian schools and the UBV, Venezuelans have shown the world that with full participation, full inclusion, and popular empowerment, the failings of capitalist schooling can be resisted and overcome. Venezuela is a beacon to the world in its accomplishment of eliminating illiteracy in record time, and engaging virtually the entire population in the ongoing project of education."

So if Bill Ayers can do better, why did the CAC fail?

Bill Ayers, 2002 "I am as much an anarchist as a Marxist"

"The White Panther Party was a group of cultural revolutionaries mainly. They were artists and anarchists and drug, dope smokers and a really good group of people."

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 29 Oct 08 - 06:20 PM

I wouldn't put anything past McCain..Kissinger endorses him..Bryzinzky advised Obama.....and Bush...and Clinton...and Reagan...and Bush Sr...and Carter....and..well, you fill in the spaces...

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: CarolC
Date: 29 Oct 08 - 06:13 PM

If McCain's willing to give Khalidi almost a half million dollars, he must be an ok guy. Right?

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 29 Oct 08 - 06:13 PM

I think I already posted, concerning these type activities.....you can go back to sleep, ..again...

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 29 Oct 08 - 06:11 PM

I heard...bou I didn't want to venture there...as not to hear lame spinning...

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: CarolC
Date: 29 Oct 08 - 06:10 PM

John McCain's ties to Rashid Khalidi

'During the 1990s, while he served as chairman of the International Republican Institute (IRI), McCain distributed several grants to the Palestinian research center co-founded by Khalidi, including one worth half a million dollars.

A 1998 tax filing for the McCain-led group shows a $448,873 grant to Khalidi's Center for Palestine Research and Studies for work in the West Bank. (See grant number 5180, "West Bank: CPRS" on page 14 of this PDF.)

The relationship extends back as far as 1993, when John McCain joined IRI as chairman in January. Foreign Affairs noted in September of that year that IRI had helped fund several extensive studies in Palestine run by Khalidi's group, including over 30 public opinion polls and a study of "sociopolitical attitudes."'

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Riginslinger
Date: 29 Oct 08 - 05:55 PM

McCain faults paper for not releasing Khalidi tape
BETH FOUHY ASSOCIATED PRESS
Originally published 05:41 p.m., October 29, 2008, updated 05:07 p.m., October 29, 2008

Buzz up!BOWLING GREEN, OHIO (AP) - Republicans John McCain and Sarah Palin accused the Los Angeles Times on Wednesday of protecting Barack Obama by withholding a videotape of the Democrat attending a 2003 party for a Palestinian-American professor and critic of Israel.
McCain and Palin called Rashid Khalidi a former spokesman for the Palestine Liberation Organization, a characterization that Khalidi has denied in the past. Both candidates said guests at the party made critical comments about Israel.
Khalidi is a professor of Middle East Studies at Columbia University and a longtime friend of Obama's. Khalidi has publicly criticized Israel.
On Wednesday, McCain said 1960s radical Bill Ayers had attended the same party in 2003. McCain and Palin have criticized Obama for his ties to Ayers and questioned what the videotape of the party might show.



               Let's see, how old was Barack Obama in 2003, hmmm?

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Bobert
Date: 29 Oct 08 - 05:12 PM

All these conspiracy threories are beyond silly... They are downright boring...

Who cares if Barak Obama was the only 8 year old in the WeatherUnderground... It don't change what he has to offer today... Or more importantly, tomorrow... The 60's were a long time ago...

Beyond silly...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 29 Oct 08 - 03:50 PM

Amos, dear ol' Amos, good ol' buddy in musical taste.......By your own post, you point out a connection (Annenbergs, for ONE)that there mutual associations and connections between the far right, and far left, in the higher echelons, ok??..What have I been telling you all along??? Some of these connections, have a higher agenda, and the funds to 'fund'(read: bribe, or even buy)influence national policy. The very fact that they can use their moneys to over ride true representation of constituents from being represented, in a Democracy, is in fact corrupt! Your pal Obama, is just one of them. That in itself does NOT exonerate the FAR right, who accept funds...from the SAME people. Accepting money, by BOTH sides assures the 'benefactors' that whomever is in office, is MUCH OBLIGED!

As I have previously said, 'We in America, have the best politicians money can buy!'

...And watch them go through all the phases of denial, when they get found out. Usually, when that said politician, is of no longer use, or the charges are made...seldom do the ones who do the bribing are punished...just the politician. Look at Stevens...How about going after the oil company bribers, as vigorously!!?!!?

Hmmm ..Let's think now...something in common with Reagan and Obama??...something to think about....

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Amos
Date: 29 Oct 08 - 02:38 PM

"In 1995, Bill Ayers was part of a team that helped create the Chicago Annenberg Challenge, an education reform project that worked with half of Chicago's public schools. Barack Obama, then working as an attorney and law school professor, was elected chairman of the eight-member board of the CAC.

We also now know how much money the Annebergs pumped into the CAC:

..the CAC was funded by a foundation belonging to Walter Annenberg, the billionaire Republican philanthropist who served as Richard M. Nixon's ambassador to the U.K. Annenberg and his wife, Leonore, gave the CAC $50 million in the 90's.

If it's acceptable to play the "guilt by association" card, then Anneberg funded a terrorist with $50,000,000. Other recipients of Anneberg money includes:

But Walter and Leonore weren't just giving money to educational foundations started by William Ayers. They were also giving hundreds of thousands of dollars to the Republican National Committee and various other Republican groups, as well as to a whole host of Republican candidates, including the following:

   * George W. Bush       $4000
   * Mitt Romney       $5000
   * Strom Thurmond       $1000
   * Fred Thompson       $500
   * Rick Santorum       $3000

Now here comes the "off message" blunder by the McCain campaign. Check the Press Release they released last Thursday. The title is as follows:

100 U.S. Ambassadors Endorse McCain-Palin   

Further in the Press Release, note the former Ambassador the McCain camp is trumpeting:

">..they have in the historic McCain-Palin ticket."

FORMER U.S. AMBASSADORS FOR MCCAIN-PALIN

Lenore Annenberg, Chief of Protocol -- Radnor, Penn."

That's right folks, that Leonore/Lenore Annenberg, she of the Annenberg Foundation, the funders of the CAC and financial backer to a known terrorist.

How does that "guilt by association" argument look now?..."

(DailyKOS)

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Amos
Date: 29 Oct 08 - 02:33 PM

"In John McCain's newest Web ad, he attacks Barack Obama for supporting a "radical education foundation" that gave millions to "idealogical allies" that resulted in scant improvement in the quality of public schools.

He was referring to the Chicago Annenberg Challenge, detailed by my colleagues in this EdWeek story and this sidebar story.

McCain, who has criticized Obama for his ties to William Ayers, one of the founders of Chicago's Annenberg project, is now associating with the very foundation that funded the "radical" work.

His campaign sent out a press release listing all of the former U.S. ambassadors who support him.

On his supporters' list: Leonore Annenberg, 90, who was chief of protocol in the Reagan White House and is the president and chairman of the Pennsylvania-based Annenberg Foundation. She is the widow of Walter H. Annenberg, the late publisher, philanthropist, ambassador, and founder of the Annenberg Challenge."

..."You know what else "we know" about "candor?" Lenore Annenberg, wife of Amb. William Annenberg, who founded the Annenberg Foundation on whose board Barack Obama and William Ayers sat, gave money to and endorsed Sen. McCain for President. Does that mean that John McCain supports domestic terrorism since Annenberg chose Ayers for his board? Of course not. I agree with Rachel Maddow and Michael Scherer on this one: all of this Ayers stuff is pure nonsense. "

"McCain-Bill Ayers-Annenberg -Friend That Trust Each Other or What? McCain Trumpets Endorsement From Figure Of Foundation That Established Ayers Board
stumble digg reddit del.ico.us news trust mixx.com
October 8, 2008 11:55 AM
On Wednesday morning, John McCain's campaign released a list of 100 former ambassadors endorsing the GOP presidential nominee.

Second on the list, though her name is misspelled, is Leonore Annenberg, currently the president and chairman of the Annenberg Foundation and widow of ambassador and philanthropist Walter Annenberg. Ms. Annenberg was herself the "chief of protocol" at the State Department under President Reagan.

If the last name sounds familiar, it's because it also graces the name of the Chicago education board where Barack Obama and William Ayers sat in the room six times together.

In recent days, the McCain-Palin ticket (and particularly Palin) has faulted Obama for having served on that board with Ayers, who was a founding member of the radical 60's Weather Underground group when Obama was in grade school.

Since then, however, Ayers has been rehabilitated in Chicago society, carving out a niche in education circles. As a former Republican representative in Illinois told NPR on Monday, smearing Obama for his board association with Ayers is "nonsensical."

"It was never a concern by any of us in the Chicago school reform movement that he had led a fugitive life years earlier ... It's ridiculous," Republican Rep. Diana Nelson said. "There is no reason at all to smear Barack Obama with this association. It's nonsensical, and it just makes me crazy. It's so silly."

..."

From assorted websites in a quick search.

Sawz, you and your right-wing co-vampires in residence are just gonna have to do better than that.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 29 Oct 08 - 02:17 PM

"The Annenberg Foundation, a charitable family trust, was created on July 1, 1989 by media magnate and former Ambassador to the Court of St. James's Walter H. Annenberg."

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Sawzaw
Date: 29 Oct 08 - 12:28 PM

Obama / Ayers joint experience in public education:

The Chicago Annenberg Challenge: Successes, Failures, and Lessons for the Future
8/2003. Mark Smylie, Stacy Wenzel, Elaine Allensworth, Carol Fendt, Sara Ray Stoelinga (credited as Sara Hallman), Stuart Luppescu, and Jenny Nagaoka

From the 1996-97 through 2000-01 school years, the Annenberg Foundation awarded special funding to as many as 210 of Chicago's public schools, 90 percent of which were elementary schools. The funding, which had also been provided to cities such as New York and San Francisco, was part of a large-scale local school reform philosophy that intended to improve student achievement and other social and psychological outcomes. In Chicago, the Annenberg Challenge reflected a democratic localism that placed great faith in the ability of local schools, in partnership with parents and their communities, to develop their own strategies to achieve professional development and instructional goals.
    In order to determine the value of such reforms, the Chicago Annenberg Challenge funded a five-year analysis of the program, led by Mark Smylie, Stacy Wenzel, and a specialized Consortium research team. This team received guidance from a diversified base of local and national researchers and educators, including dozens of Chicago Public School (CPS) teachers.
    Drawing from student test scores, longitudinal surveys, and teacher and principal interview data, the Consortium team evaluated whether the Challenge catalyzed school improvement and student academic achievement, and investigated the myriad factors that contributed to these results. During the same period as the study, CPS implemented its own set of major reforms, including high-stakes testing, increased emphasis on basic reading and mathematics skills, and the end of social promotion. As a result, this report also examines the ways in which the Chicago Annenberg Challenge's goals conflicted with those of CPS, and how those conflicting policies may have helped or hindered students' and schools' success. Understanding these outcomes will inform future large-scale school reform initiatives and their implementation at the local school level.
    This is the final technical report of a series of publications on the Annenberg Challenge that began in the summer of 1998. The series of technical reports on the Chicago Annenberg Challenge, along with a series of special topic reports that examine particular areas of school development, student outcomes, and change strategies, are listed below. Reports in both series are available to the public, and the most recent reports may be downloaded for free as PDF files....

.....The Challenge's "bottom line" was improving student achievement and other social and psychological outcomes. Our research indicates that student outcomes in Annenberg schools were much like those in demographically similar non-Annenberg schools and across the Chicago school system as a whole, indicating that among the schools it supported, the Challenge had little impact on student outcomes...

There were no statistically significant differences between Annenberg schools and non-Annenberg schools in rates of achievement gain.

Across Annenberg schools, student academic engagement was only slightly greater in 2001 than before the Challenge. Classroom behavior, students' sense of self-efficacy, and social competence were weaker in 2001 than before the Challenge. Like student achievement, there were no statistically significant differences in these outcomes between Annenberg and non-Annenberg schools.....

Ayers speech in Caracas 2006:

"This is my fourth visit to Venezuela, each time at the invitation of my comrade and friend Luis Bonilla, a brilliant educator and inspiring fighter for justice. Luis has taught me a great deal about the Bolivarian Revolution and about the profound educational reforms underway here in Venezuela under the leadership of President Chavez. We share the belief that education is the motor-force of revolution, and I've come to appreciate Luis as a major asset in both the Venezuelan and the international struggle" I look forward to seeing how he and all of you continue to overcome the failings of capitalist education as you seek to create something truly new and deeply humane. Thank you, Luis, for everything you've done.
    I also thank my youngest son, Chesa Boudin, who is interpreting my talk this morning and whose book on the Bolivarian revolution has played an important part in countering the barrage of lies spread by the U.S. State Department and the corrupted Northamerican media.......
......Viva Mission Sucre!
Viva Presidente Chavez!
Viva La Revolucion Bolivariana!
Hasta La Victoria Siempre!

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 29 Oct 08 - 10:52 AM

Th existence of private property and private enterprise shouldn't be confused with a system in which corporate capitalism runs riot, and diminishes and destroys such things. It's a confusion that is encouraged by corporate capitalists.

That applies just as much when it is state capitalism rather than finance capitalism.

The existence of a significant public sector, including co-operatives and other forms, is in principle helpful to and even essential for genuine human-scale free enterprise.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Amos
Date: 29 Oct 08 - 10:46 AM

Rearn Barance!!!!!

Mr. Kesuke Miyagi

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 29 Oct 08 - 10:22 AM

Before this was a topic, in the media, or even on here, I asserted that both party's agenda were socialist(like over a month ago), to which I got ragged on. As it turned out, and as time tells..I was right again! In earlier posts, I likened the right and the left, as being in the ring with a boxer, who comes at you, with both a right, another right..and a left, another right, and a left..pointing out, that is was the same boxer. Anyone who can't see this, just isn't watching..before you get knocked out! I have also said, that a BALANCE between capitalism and socialism, is NOT a bad thing, and actually works well together!
The problem is, when either one gets out of balance, and dominates to a point of being either ruthless, or corrupt, as we have seen. Capitalism, in fact is not all bad either! Ever wanted to SELL your music?..or should the state own it, and dictate when and where it can be heard? On the other hand, do we like a monopolistic music industry, that limits our music, so it can't be heard at all?..in favor of some some 'commercial dumbed down trash'??
The fact that the market SHOULD dictate what is popular, is fine, but when the media forces (powers that be), in the mainstream, is guilty, of promoting 'dumbed down' trends and fads, just to sell 'dumbed down' junk, well that, to me, is capitalism in a socially harmful way! This applies to far more than music!!! take for instance the absolute crappy junk, we get from China's manufacturing sector (if you want to call it that), that we buy for cheaper, so the companies that have it made there, can increase their profit margins, for cheap labor! The product doesn't get better, the jobs and manufacturing base of our country, leaves our shores, which erodes both our productivity, and our ability to create wealth...instead of just printing more, worthless money!! These policies have been from BOTH sides of the aisle, under BOTH parties administrations...and its time we stop kidding ourselves! China doesn't even recognize our intellectual property rights!...This is not 'good' capitalism practices...from an 'out of balance' socialistic country....who is eating us alive......
ok....I'll get off the soap box, now....just thought I'd point that out...Its Balance!!!, not capitulation, or compromise!!

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 29 Oct 08 - 08:44 AM

Of course the downside of saying "Obama is a socialist", from the point of view of those doing this, is that it's liable to mean an awful lot of Americans deciding that, if Obama really is a socialist, socialism can't be such a bad thing after all.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Bobert
Date: 29 Oct 08 - 07:47 AM

Yeah, there is no doubt that Palin is a socialist... She's even sent checks out to the citizens rather than use the money for infastructure??? How amny governeors have been in position to do that??? Well, none... But no other state recieves as much per capita pork dollars as Alaska...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: CarolC
Date: 29 Oct 08 - 05:55 AM

Sarah Palin is a socialist.

John McCain is a socialist, too.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: GUEST,Guest From Sainty
Date: 28 Oct 08 - 10:47 PM

Yes, Bobert I agree with you......it's part of the whole scheme of things...It's taken both parties to hoodwink the public to make it happen too!!...Watch, they're not done yet......

remember, don't B flat...B sharp..but B natural!

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Bobert
Date: 28 Oct 08 - 06:46 PM

Those "illegals", GfS, are working for $12 an hour with no benefits... But nevermind that... The illegals have nothing to do with the premise I laid out... Nothing at all...

Well, come to think about it, they do... Whereas the average Anerican weorker has suffered from a 30 year downward wage spiril that $12 an hour still seams like a lota money to folk from El Salvidor or Mexico... Guess that does prove my above point about the US economy suffering from a wage crisis...

But, regardless, the illegals aren't running the machines that produce syuff because all those machines are long gone... Yup, packed into sea containers, put on the boat and are now being run by Pakistanis...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 28 Oct 08 - 05:36 PM

Irishenglish,...Surely it was meant in jest..I have absolutely NO animosity, or ill will toward any of the bonehead musicians in here!!

Shit, look how much material I've given them!!!...but alas, a lot of them can't see the forest for the trees!

oh yeah..drink tea then....

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 28 Oct 08 - 05:32 PM

Bobert, '(But, Bobert, the rich create all those wonderful jobs...)'

...and give them to those illegals, Because those 'silly Yanks' don't want them(??)......

...but they don't need them,..all the paying ones got shipped overseas!

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Bobert
Date: 28 Oct 08 - 04:26 PM

You have it all backwards, GfS... No, maybe you have in in-side-out... Whatever you have it it misses the cause of the current meltdown... We don't have a credit crisis... We have an income crisis... The American working class has been lost idexed purchasing power every year since 1982... The main reason for this is that Boss Hog (management) used the power of the governemnt in an activist/liberal manner to create laws and tax codes that favor the rich...

(But, Bobert, the rich create all those wonderful jobs...)

Okay, they create jobs... Wonderfull??? Not many and not any to speak of over the last 8 years in particular... It should also be pointed out that small firms with owners who aren't rich employ alot of folks, too...

But nevermind that...


What we have seen since 1982 is an erosion of investment in our own American working class... We don't make anything anymore since we shipped out all of our manufacturing equipement to Bamgldesk, Pakistan, China and India... So what do we do??? We consume... Problem is that as our spending power has gone down, down, down and Boss Hog (management) has used up alot of the tax breaks he got from Bush to ***lend*** to the working class and the working class is all ***borrowed out*** and this the housing bubble... Bad lending and bad spending....

So, bottom line is that the rich have screwed themselves while screwing the working class... The free market has not policed itself... It is like the fox guarding the hen house...

So, yeah... Call it socialism if you like but until we figure out how to stabilize the incomes of the working class this problem won't just magically disappear... This ain't a cycle... This is a dead-end... Now the US purdy much has to start from scratch and this time without the means-of-production and, quite frankly, not a citizenry who would even know how to use it...

So, yeah... There is still alot ot wealth in the country but it is going to have be used for the betterment of US all and not just the upper 5 ot 10% if we are, as a nat5ion, to survive... We are going to have to see that capital is used more responsibly... Owning 7 houses is not a responsible use of one's capital... Lending it to folks to pay for basic survival isn't a responsible use of capital...
Invetsing in overseas ventures to avoild paying taxes isn't a repsonsible use of capital... Hiding it in off-shore accounts isn't a responsible use of capital...

Face it, the rich don't give a rat's ass if they are being responsible stewarts of capital... That's is excatly where this vector of history has gotten us and now we are going to have to reshuffle... Call it socialism, if you want... Techincally, it won't be... It will just be responsible capitalism with laws and tax codes to make it so...

That's the real deal...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: irishenglish
Date: 28 Oct 08 - 02:26 PM

gfs, if that was intended as good humoured, I will take it with a smile. Mistake on my part, pure and simple. If it was not though, I do not like Irish coffee, nor the implication.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 28 Oct 08 - 01:21 PM

Sorry, forgot to include you post.......Joe!!!!....help!!!

From: irishenglish
Date: 28 Oct 08 - 11:32 AM

D'oh! more coffee needed. Please ignore my above post-(IE quietly leaves room embarassed!)

Perhaps, more English tea, and less Irish coffee, eh???

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 28 Oct 08 - 01:19 PM

Perhaps, more English tea, and less Irish coffee, eh???

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 28 Oct 08 - 01:14 PM

1. McCain obviously belongs to the Josef Goebbels school of rhetoric. Give the idiots in your population something, or someone, to fear and you can easily persuade them to vote for Jack the Ripper. In Germany Adolf used the Jews as bogeyman. McCain isn't satisfied with just using the black card. He wants to scare Americans with something they REALLY don't understand, so he calls him a SOCIALIST.

2. Americans in general haven't a clue what the word socialism means, and see it as a threat to society. Basically, genuine socialism is about NOT sitting on your porch with a six pack and a pile of sandwiches, while watching your neighbour starve to death. It is about being prepared to offer a little of what you have to help someone less fortunate. From what I have read of the history of America, it was built on that kind of neighbourliness. But that was a long time ago, and you all seem to have forgotten how.

3. The mark of a civilised nation is not how advanced its technology, nor how large its assets. It is how well it treats its poorest, and most vulnerable citizens. In that respect the USA is at present no more than semi civilised. Obama my well turn out to be the man to change that, and deal with what is wrong at home, rather than attempting to be the world's policeman like his predecessor.

4. What you decide in this election, has ramifications for a large proportion of the world's population, which makes it arguably the most important vote in the history of your nation. Think hard about whether it is more important to fight foreign wars for control of other peoples' resources, or to fight at home against injustice, and bigotry.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 28 Oct 08 - 11:42 AM

Frankly yes. The Republican party, rather like our own Tory party, loves the rhetoric of confrontation.

Such rhetoric is addictive and alluring stuff for all leaders of men. They get to strut and puff themselves up to feelings of great importance.

With Maggie Thatcher, it cost hundreds more lives in Northern Ireland, where a more conciliatory tone would have prevented a lot of bloodshed.

You'll have to work out your own body count, and the great advantages of George playing at being a 'wartime President'.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: irishenglish
Date: 28 Oct 08 - 11:32 AM

D'oh! more coffee needed. Please ignore my above post-(IE quietly leaves room embarassed!)

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: artbrooks
Date: 28 Oct 08 - 11:16 AM

As a matter of interest, GfS, since Senators Feinstein and Boxer and Representative Pelosi serve in the US Congress rather than the California legislature, just how did they cause California's "bankruptcy"? In fact, none of them have ever served in California's Senate or Assembly. And, since Gov. Schwarzenegger has a line-item veto and can eliminate any "stupid programs" if he chooses to do so, can the fault for any fiscal crisis that exists there be given exclusively to either party?

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 28 Oct 08 - 11:11 AM

The market is falling because George Bush (and John MacCain) has pissed away the country's resources on meaningless wars and spent all the tax dollars with armaments manufacturers who filled his election coffer.

You could have developed the car that didn't need petrol , but instead you pissed the money up wall and repeatedly voted for an idiot.

A calamity you seem to wish on your country once again.