I walked out of session

Subject: RE: I walked out of session
From: closet-folkie
Date: 06 Dec 06 - 01:43 PM

I'd just like to suggest that "Lesbian Death Thrash Poetry" might be the best potential band name I've heard in some time.
Clinton---calm down lad. Have yourself a nice Maudite; it works wonders. Cheers then, Steve R.

Subject: RE: I walked out of session
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 06 Dec 06 - 01:22 PM

I wouldn't CARE

I don't base my sense of self on what others think of me, or of anything

Subject: RE: I walked out of session
From: Greg B
Date: 06 Dec 06 - 01:20 PM

Quoth Clinton:
> Or do you really think the sun shines out your arse?

In fact it does. Comes in handy when reading the lead
sheets in the back rows in a darkened pub. Also handy
for reading in the loo.

Subject: RE: I walked out of session
From: Big Mick
Date: 06 Dec 06 - 01:09 PM

Often, when I am meeting or performing with a noted performer for the first time, the conversation will turn to friends we have in common. Among others, I always mention Kendall, and often as not that is one that we have conversation about.

If I would were to list words used to describe Kendall Morse, it would look like this:

Friend
Gentleman
Humorist
Teddy Bear
Great singer
Knowledgeable
Great guitar player
Respected
Well known
Great Dad
Great repertoire
Universally loved
and on and on ......

Clinton, how would they describe you?

Subject: RE: I walked out of session
From: GUEST,memyself
Date: 06 Dec 06 - 01:08 PM

Oh, boy! They've got Clinton going! This is gonna be fun!

Subject: RE: I walked out of session
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 06 Dec 06 - 12:58 PM

Your opinion ain't worth squat.. no more than mine, or Kendalls or anybodys....

If you think it is, you must be taking arrogance lessons from Mr National TV.... Critizising people for liking a song??? Ya... very professional....

And once again Mick.. You show how ill your perception is.... -I- have NO insecurities.... and THAT makes you so GREEN I can see it from here. So why don't you get down off that high horse and go back to kneeling under it where you at least do some good.

You're not disgusted or tired... You're afraid. It's as plain as the face on your head

Subject: RE: I walked out of session
From: Big Mick
Date: 06 Dec 06 - 12:50 PM

Kendall needs no defense. He has sung on national TV (the Today Show), and has a portfolio that most here would die for. When Kendall sings, he is never just wallpaper in a bar as the critic is. Many of the legends in our genre call him friend, and enjoy performing with him. While others were whiling away their time and talent singing in bars for drunks, he has recorded for a venerable label, been hailed as a treasure by the State he calls home, and carving a reputation as a pearl of great worth. He was honored by his home state as Folksinger of the Year three times. There are those that need to learn from his example. While he has become someone that is universally loved and admired, others (one other specifically) are squandering their talents and coming to be known as arrogant, self centered assholes that cover their insecurities, and their anger at the hole they are in, by acting like horses asses. Pete Seeger has spoken of and praised Cap'n Morse. I would say that trumps the old drunk laying in the corner of the bar gig.

Mick, disgusted and tired of this prat's attitude.

Subject: RE: I walked out of session
From: dermod in salisbury
Date: 06 Dec 06 - 12:48 PM

Pubs started to become an overrated experience when the piano moved out, the one-armed bandit moved in, and the price of a drink moved up through the roof. I rarely go in one unless I need to get out of the rain. However, the domestic front parlour and a jovial set of bring-your-own-bottle-type friends and musicians could be due for a major comeback. According to the press, the average time people spend watching television has been in decline for some time. It's just that the brewing industry has not noticed that yet.

Subject: RE: I walked out of session
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 06 Dec 06 - 12:25 PM

" for people who think "Tie a yellow ribbon" is a folk song"
What an arrogant SOB....

"I think Clinton crossed the line"
Who cares what you think?

Subject: RE: I walked out of session
From: number 6
Date: 06 Dec 06 - 11:44 AM

Good post Kendall .... I agree with all ya said.

biLL

Subject: RE: I walked out of session
From: Maryrrf
Date: 06 Dec 06 - 11:00 AM

To the guy who walked out of the session, my first thought was "Good for you"!   You walked away with dignity. It really is a shame that people can't tear themselves away from television every once and a while to enjoy something different. But doubtless there will be other venues who do appreciate a good session, and what it adds to the atmosphere of the establishment. No use casting your pearls before swine.

I would also like to say that I think Clinton crossed the line and I am really sick and tired of his anti-social behavior. I can only assume that he feels compelled to put other down because of his own frustration and feelings of inadequacy. He owes Kendall an apology, but I doubt he'll have enough class to offer one.

Subject: RE: I walked out of session
From: gnu
Date: 06 Dec 06 - 06:33 AM

I actually kinda agreed with Clinton's first post. Then, well....

Odd that my post ended with, "Ya can't stop progress... or regress." Hehehe.

By the way, Clint, if you ever get your own TV show, or want to publish any books, Kendall might give you some pointers. Not that you would take them.

Subject: RE: I walked out of session
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 06 Dec 06 - 05:17 AM

Clinton,

I know you get your jollies out of it, but please stop being a thread creep!

Subject: RE: I walked out of session
From: GUEST,Boab
Date: 06 Dec 06 - 01:23 AM

I played in pubs [usually solo] for many years. I tried to avoid becoming an "institution" in any given venue, and took a relaxed attitude to what I saw to be the normal situation in any pub---folks out for a drink and a natter mainly. My contribution sometimes qualified as background "noise", but more often, and as the night went on, those who enjoyed my music showed their appreciation by congregating around and joining in the spirit by singing along, or adding requests. The normal noise [hubbub?] of a weekend pub went on unhindered, and I found no offence or annoyance in this. The one thing that DID annoy me--and usually resulted in my instrument being packed away---was some over officious "I'll be emcee" type hollering at the company in general "Order for the singer" or some other loud and fatuous proclamation. Folks in a pub are there for their own particular kind of pleasure---a blather, a goodnatured argy-bargy,or just a good gargle; and there are always some who delight in a sing-song, or in whatever talents a casual entertainer can produce. Good enough for me.

Subject: RE: I walked out of session
From: HuwG
Date: 05 Dec 06 - 10:51 PM

Not quite a session; but some years ago, while roadying, the girl I was supporting did a gig in the Mason's Arms, Hadfield (the one featuring "Live Indoor Rugby" in the League of Gentlemen.

As I set up on the stage, the projection screen behind it was showing "Casablanca". (They had been showing football earlier in the day, and not turned the TV system off.)

As the time came to start the gig, "Casablanca" was still on. I asked the bar staff to turn it off. They could manually turn down the sound, but couldn't find the remote control to turn it off. (Pulling out the plug would have lost all their carefully entered tunings and settings.)

So, the plucky girl did her first two songs while behind her Ingrid Bergman silently asked the pianist to "Play it again for me, Sam." The landlord then found the remote, turned off the film and instead unearthed that awful backdrop of glittery strips which seems to be de rigeur.

Personally, I would have preferred to keep Bogart and Claude Rains on, albeit silently.

Subject: RE: I walked out of session
From: jacqui.c
Date: 05 Dec 06 - 10:51 PM

That's pretty rich coming from you Kendall

Or do you really think the sun shines out your arse?

Clinton

When you have a highly respected folk artist like Utah Phillips citing you as the best folk singer that he is aware of then you might just be in a position to pass judgement on others.

When you can put your CDs and tapes on the Mudcat auction and command high prices and praise for the works from the winning bidders your opinions might just be respected.

As those who know him are aware Kendall does not brag about his achievements and is humble about his abilities, past and present. He is still surprised when fans come up to him in public and want to talk to him, as still happens.

Your remark was uncalled for and I think Kendall deserves an apology from you.

To everyone else - sorry for the thread creep.

Subject: RE: I walked out of session
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 05 Dec 06 - 10:20 PM

This is so far a discussion of noise (or not): the other thing, in addition to noisy competition, is cigarette smoke. I went to a little Fort Worth establishment a couple of years back to hear a visiting Mudcatter sing, and there was one woman in the front of the table area who managed to foul the air for everyone sitting in the room. She was oblivious to the stink, and she smoked enough that the air didn't have a chance to clear much before the next one was in her mouth. Despite my pleasure at the music I could hardly wait to get out of the place.

SRS

Subject: RE: I walked out of session
From: Rowan
Date: 05 Dec 06 - 10:11 PM

Many years ago the bush band I played in was asked to do an afternoon gig at a pub in The Rocks, Sydney. We were surprised because this pub had a reputation of being "Rock Music Only" and we weren't even at the rock-folk end of the spectrum. Apparently the pub had had a bush band (much more rock than folk) the month before and thought we'd continue in the same line.

During the afternoon we turned the foldback speakers off as the sound levels from the house speakers were more than adequate. Later, the bar staff turned the house speakers right up and we couldn't hear ourselves, so we asked one of the staff to turn them down to levels we regarded as adequate; he did so. 20 minutes later the speakers were turned up full again. When we sked the bar manager to turn them down he refused, saying that the more volume they pumped out, the harder it was for the customers to have any conversation without shouting. The more they shouted, the hoarser they got. the hoarser they got the more they had to drink. He wanted to sell beer so he wanted the music loud!

It wasn't a session, by any means, but I think we were the last bush band to play there for quite a while.

In the town where I now live we used to have a great session on Sunday afternoons; the bar staff showed us which buttons muted (to "Off") the speakers in our area and were quite happy to let us get on with it. During renovation of that area we were moved out to another, which was acoustically much brighter and with more background noise. We coped until we found a guitarist setting up a sound system about 3 metres from us and then testing it over the top of our playing. Apparently the landlord had booked him and neglected to tell us. We walked!

The guitarist played (and sang) very undistinguished cuntry music in a very undistinguished manor and it came as no surprise that he lasted only a month or so, after which the owner of the pub was declared bankrupt and the whole shebang was closed.

Sorry about the spelling.

Cheers, Rowan

Subject: RE: I walked out of session
From: kendall
Date: 05 Dec 06 - 10:00 PM

I've often asked myself why we do it. Why do we expose ourselves to rudeness and utter disrespect? Is it for the money? or is it a need to share what we have with others? Seems to me if it's for the money we don't need a hell of a lot to live on! I never made enough to live on but it was enough to make it worthwhile doing. I'm sure I could have made a lot more if I wasn't so lazy and really didn't need to do it. Maybe that's why I didn't play in joints for people who think "Tie a yellow ribbon" is a folk song.

Nope, not worth it. I'd much rather be part of a song circle.

Subject: RE: I walked out of session
From: GUEST,memyself
Date: 05 Dec 06 - 09:21 PM

If it's wisdom, it's hard-won wisdom (I'm a slow-learner). This is where the term "bitter personal experience" applies ...

Subject: RE: I walked out of session
From: number 6
Date: 05 Dec 06 - 09:19 PM

Ah ... there is nothing like the luxury, friendship, the sharing of a kitchen session.

The hell with bars.

biLL

Subject: RE: I walked out of session
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 05 Dec 06 - 09:07 PM

memyself...

'they should have made Wednesday nights "Wet T-shirt Night" in the first place ... '

Well, since it's not 'about the music' at all, but 'all about the money' I think you are very wise...

Where's this place, bugger the Accordion...

Subject: RE: I walked out of session
From: Gulliver
Date: 05 Dec 06 - 08:51 PM

Shaneo wrote:
"The punters want us there and join in with the songs but as in every Dublin pub the t.v gets priority.
I think it's a Dublin thing ,it's like there are two Irelands,
one is Dublin and then you have the rest where you will be warmly
welcomed and the songs will be respected."

That is total nonsense! I've played in many sessions in Dublin pubs over the past few years and the T.V. (if there was one there) was always off while the musicians played. Hundreds of visitors have passed through these sessions and really enjoyed them, while the locals come back week after week. I sympathise with your particular experience in that pub, but don't apply this to every pub in Dublin!

Subject: RE: I walked out of session
From: GUEST,memyself
Date: 05 Dec 06 - 08:42 PM

"You just can't tell some people, they just have to learn thru bitter personal experience..."

Learn? What do you think they'll learn? Probably that they should have made Wednesday nights "Wet T-shirt Night" in the first place ...

Subject: RE: I walked out of session
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 05 Dec 06 - 08:28 PM

There was a session in the City in a 'trendy café' in the 'Entertainment centre - live theatre, small theatrette, etc place - place was empty that night of the week but for the 'folkies' - change of management - and we were asked to leave cause the new owner had been requested to replace us on Wed Night with a sorta 'Lesbian Death Thrash Poetry' (if you have NEVER heard of this sorta stuff, be extremely GRATEFUL!) group - a few weeks later we were asked to come back, but were too happy with the new venue - place changed hands again....

You just can't tell some people, they just have to learn thru bitter personal experience...

Subject: RE: I walked out of session
From: SINSULL
Date: 05 Dec 06 - 08:08 PM

There is a waitress at the Press Room who ups the volume on her personal radio whenever a Saturday session starts. A pain in the butt but not the same as management screwing around with paying customers.

Subject: RE: I walked out of session
From: SINSULL
Date: 05 Dec 06 - 08:06 PM

"My opinion is no more and certainly no less valid than yours sir. "
Captain Morse,
I strongly disagree. Your accomplishments and reputation make your opinions worth reading and far more valid than the negative ramblings and "sound and fury" drivel coming from a troll that (not who)daily screams "Look at me!"
Slightly prejudiced.
Mary SINS

Subject: RE: I walked out of session
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 05 Dec 06 - 07:59 PM

But instead of leaving, we just moved the session outside to the sidewalk. The customers who had come to hear music (instead of watch football) joined us outside.

With the law the way it is in England the landlord would be liable to phone the police and inform them of a bunch of musicians breaking the law outside his pub by playing in a place not covered by a licence to play music. Strange but true.

And before too long there'd be a policeman saying "Move along lads, I donm't want any trouble..."

Subject: RE: I walked out of session
From: MuddleC
Date: 05 Dec 06 - 07:42 PM

There used to be a monthly session at a pub in Church Gresley (Derbyshire) , where the landlord used to switch both the juke-box, and one-armed bandit off during a session. If that wasn't enough, he also produced some free pitchers of beer!!!!

Sadly, the landlord went elsewhere, and the new one made such a racket juggling bottles , washing glasses and depositing empties in the plastic refuse bucket from 5ft away, that we finally decided 'too much background noise', and we didn't go back.

The replacement pub in Worthington (Leicestershire) provides sandwiches, and a small glass of schnapps for every performer.... although I think a few sneak in for a free schnapps!-the landord even joins in on his guitar!

-if you don't enjoy the session where it is ..move it

Another weekly venue in Leicestershire provides sandwiches for the darts team and dominoes team, but we don't even get a packet of pork scratchings!... at lesat the 'musak' gets switched off... but you wouldn't believe the noise that can be generated by the relatively simple act of domino shuffling in the other bar!!



et al a

Subject: RE: I walked out of session
From: kendall
Date: 05 Dec 06 - 07:24 PM

Clinton, should I have asked if it was ok to express my opinion? Explain what you mean by "That's rich coming from you Kendall"

My opinion is no more and certainly no less valid than yours sir.

Subject: RE: I walked out of session
From: Beer
Date: 05 Dec 06 - 07:08 PM

After darts on a Wednesday night three of us take out the guitars at the Legion and begin to play and sing. The first think the barmaid does is turn the sound down on the T.V. Even if the Canadians are playing against the Toronto Maple Leafs. And there is absolutely no complaints from the audience who is watching their program. The Legion has always been a great place to play in my books,
Beer

Subject: RE: I walked out of session
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 05 Dec 06 - 06:42 PM

Indeed Melodeonboy! It was the Canopus, and it was I who cried "Oh Fuck" in mid song and packed my instruments and first left. Growler had repeatedly asked the manager to turn the offending jukebox in the public bar down (we didn't want it off, just down, so that we in the saloon bar we were in could hear ourselves and so the 20 or so who came to listen to us could hear us). After we had left the manager repeatedly asked Growler to bring the session back, but Growler wisely declined.   

I hear the Canopus has now closed, but all the managers who ran it after Sarah the pretty German manageress died were morons. When we held Jacqui's wake there, during Sarah's reign, the pub-chain owners provided the food at their own expense, there were over 100 folkies rammed into that public bar, and the pub sold more beer that evening than it normally did in a week.

Shaneo, you did absolutely the right thing.

Subject: RE: I walked out of session
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 05 Dec 06 - 05:17 PM

Personally, I'd say investing in one of those "TVgo" tiny cards that mutes any television would be a good idea. Link.

SRS

Subject: RE: I walked out of session
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 05 Dec 06 - 05:12 PM

That's pretty rich coming from you Kendall

Or do you really think the sun shines out your arse?

Subject: RE: I walked out of session
From: kendall
Date: 05 Dec 06 - 04:46 PM

I wish I'd been there to walk out with you.
If a performer is so needy that he/she will put up with any disrespect then that's their business. It's pathetic, but still their business.

Subject: RE: I walked out of session
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Dec 06 - 04:01 PM

"I walked out of a session"

Most of the sessions I've been to in Dublin if you can walk out of them you have let the side down. It's more de rigeur to crawl out of them.

Subject: RE: I walked out of session
From: Shaneo
Date: 05 Dec 06 - 03:26 PM

It was a non paying gig,We used to play this pub every Monday but left 6 months ago.
Another band took over the Monday night session , they are mostly trad musicians it has not been going too well for them so they kept asking us back.
I never liked the place but to help the other lads out myself and the
other three in our band went back to give the lads a dig out,
we do mostly folk/ballad/old time pop/.
The punters want us there and join in with the songs but as in every Dublin pub the t.v gets priority.
I think it's a Dublin thing ,it's like there are two Irelands,
one is Dublin and then you have the rest where you will be warmly
welcomed and the songs will be respected.

Subject: RE: I walked out of session
From: melodeonboy
Date: 05 Dec 06 - 03:05 PM

I frequent a fortnightly folk session at the Good Intent in Rochester. This session used to be held at another pub several miles away, which I also frequented.   

I was not there on the night in question, but I was told by a reliable source that at the previous pub one night the new landlord decided to turn the juke box up loud in the adjacent bar, which effectively drowned out the folk singers, and would not turn it down when requested to do so. The singers did the right thing and immediately found a new venue.

I have also been in pub sessions where piped music was left on after the musicians/singers had started performing and I had to ask for it to be switched off. In some cases, the barman/landlord appeared puzzled and then apologetic. I think some people get so used to/dependent on background "sound" that actually turning it off is not something that occurs to them easily.

As for tellies in pubs, don't get me going; I might say something I'll regret!

Subject: RE: I walked out of session
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 05 Dec 06 - 02:55 PM

A similar thing happened a few years ago at a session where I was a regular. But instead of leaving, we just moved the session outside to the sidewalk. The customers who had come to hear music (instead of watch football) joined us outside. When the bartender realized he only had a handful of customers left inside while there were dozens outside, he got the point.

Subject: RE: I walked out of session
From: wysiwyg
Date: 05 Dec 06 - 02:49 PM

Feels good to opt out, doesn't it? I did that last week on another front. Sometimes it's good to play in a different sandbox. But consider this-- it might be better on a different night, after your pals play loud a couple of times. I hope you left them, at least, on good terms as you may want to go back sometime. But clearly if it isn't working for you, you don't have to be there.

Hope you find a good place to play!

~Susan

Subject: RE: I walked out of session
From: Declan
Date: 05 Dec 06 - 02:48 PM

Shaneo,

Fair play to you. It doesn't surprise me that this would happen in a lot of Dublin pubs (I live here too.)

I play in a local GAA club every week. Every now and again we have a row when the TV Volume goes up, but mostly when I complain the telly goes down again, so the session continues. If not I will leave and not come back to play. It would be a pity because our session has been going for 10 years now. Thankfully it hasn't happened in a while.

Subject: RE: I walked out of session
From: GUEST,Wayne
Date: 05 Dec 06 - 02:48 PM

At our singaround, the previous landlord woudn't let us start until the Juke box had finished. We'd occasionally have to wait until getting on for 10pm before we could start playing, despite the fact that he'd asked us to start the session to boost a flagging night and also there'd only be a few non sessioneers in the pub.

Our current Mein Host Peter couldn't be any different. Not only is he unafraid to help keep order, he even joins in and sings. What a star!

Subject: RE: I walked out of session
From: Tom Hamilton frae Saltcoats Scotland
Date: 05 Dec 06 - 02:43 PM

Good for you, however it's a pub and not a folk club, it is a business and the owner has to look after his business, but that doesn't mean to drown out the session players.

Subject: RE: I walked out of session
From: gnu
Date: 05 Dec 06 - 02:43 PM

I can see both sides of "to leave or not", but, I kinda lean toward what Clinton said. Years ago, I witnessed almost the same thing. Open mike night (and shortly thereafter, regular sessions) became a bunch of loud "kids" and the rest of us went on... because the management was smart enough to know that those "kids" were buying more pints than we. Ya can't stop progress... or regress.

Subject: RE: I walked out of session
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Dec 06 - 02:24 PM

A few weeks ago The Irish Times produced a supplement entitled 'Music In Ireland'. Guess what music never got a mention - you got it Irish Traditional Music.
In certain quarters, in spite of the incredible growth in popularity in the music and despite the fact that it brings in hundreds of thousands of visitors each year, it doesn't qualify for recognition.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: I walked out of session
From: GUEST,memyself
Date: 05 Dec 06 - 02:21 PM

Of course if you are being treating disrespectfully you leave - if you have any pride at all. Even better if you and your friends trash the place first. - but check which bouncers are on duty BEFORE upending the table (and make sure all the instruments are in their cases).

Subject: RE: I walked out of session
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 05 Dec 06 - 02:14 PM

"a huge shame that pubs are becoming less friendly towards, or accommodating of, musicians playing in them"

Even I've been doing it long enough to see the pendulum swing in both directions.... all things wax and wane in such manner.

Is it really such a surprise?

Subject: RE: I walked out of session
From: Blowzabella
Date: 05 Dec 06 - 02:11 PM

I too think that it is a huge shame that pubs are becoming less friendly towards, or accommodating of, musicians playing in them. It sounds to me as if this pub has changed hands and the new people aren't interested - nothing you can do about it, except find somewhere else to play.

However, whilst I agree that it seems rude to have the TV on while you and the other musicians are playing (I presume it is just a casual session, where an unspecified number of people turn up and play), if you haven't been specifically asked to go in there, on a particular night etc in order to do that, the punters might well think of it as 'how rude of them to play, while we are trying to watch telly'. It's a sign of the times, I'm afriad.

On the othe rhand, I recall wandering around the streets of Wells (in Somerset) one night, with a friend and being delighted to catch to strains of a fiddle or two on the night air. We were on holiday for the weekend, so not familiar with the town. Finding the pub from which it was coming, we got drinks and proceeded to go and stand to listen to them. They glared at us - almost as if we had interrupted a private conversation or rehearsal, eventually making us feel so uncomfortable, that we went and sat outside, on the patio, and just left the door ajar (as we'd found it) so we could hear them.

One of them actually came and shut the door on us!

I'm not suggesting for one minute that your session members would have behaved in this manner, but sometimes, people don't do themselves any favours, in terms of garnering sympathy...

Subject: RE: I walked out of session
From: Bernard
Date: 05 Dec 06 - 02:08 PM

Good for you!!

For many years I have been going to a pub in Mobberley on the nearest Sunday to the Winter Solstice for a Morris gathering.

This involves around seven sides dancing outside on the car park for a couple of hours, followed by a session in the pub.

I'd guess that at least a hundred people who woulndn't normally be there on a Sunday are buying drinks, and up to half that number buying food, too.

Last year we were asked not to park on the pub car park, but about half a mile away up the side road... this year we are all going to a different pub.

For those who need the info, the Bird In Hand is not the place to be on December 17th - go to The Church Inn instead!!

Subject: RE: I walked out of session
From: GUEST,dwditty
Date: 05 Dec 06 - 01:56 PM

Yep, you sure fixed 'em. Took your ball and went home.