Salman Rushdie - Outrage.

Subject: RE: Salman Rushdie - Outrage.
From: heric
Date: 19 Jun 07 - 04:45 PM

I wondered that myself meself. But, if I understand the nature of the honor correctly, he's receiving something that 2,600 people per year receive. With such a number I suspect he is a well qualified recipient.

Subject: RE: Salman Rushdie - Outrage.
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 19 Jun 07 - 04:37 PM

Okay, now what's the general feeling over there - was Rushdie going to receive this anyway, or was this done as a nose-thumbing at Iran?

It makes a difference - to me, anyway.

Subject: RE: Salman Rushdie - Outrage.
From: Peace
Date: 19 Jun 07 - 04:32 PM

Next we're going to have the offended folks telling us that the Fatwas are simply expressions of faith and the bounty is the logical result of consulting the Holy Book.

Subject: RE: Salman Rushdie - Outrage.
From: Peace
Date: 19 Jun 07 - 04:30 PM

Bullshit!

Subject: RE: Salman Rushdie - Outrage.
From: katlaughing
Date: 19 Jun 07 - 04:29 PM

Giok, it's just another spew ethnic hatred thread, no sense in trying to talk sense to those who want to slag off and use broad generalisations.

Subject: RE: Salman Rushdie - Outrage.
From: Peace
Date: 19 Jun 07 - 04:24 PM

And the lunatics are winning.

Subject: RE: Salman Rushdie - Outrage.
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 19 Jun 07 - 04:18 PM

Yeah, I suppose that's so greg. The line between stupidity and courage is hard to define sometimes. But the chances are he'll be all right. Others might not be so lucky.

There are times when it's worth sticking your neck out for a principal. But when it's other people's necks, and there's no principal involved... (I mean, accepting a knighthood in the Queen's Birthday Honours is not a principal.)
...............
I should have said "is or has been", John - the trouble is the Muslims are still bang in the middle of their Reformation.

Subject: RE: Salman Rushdie - Outrage.
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 19 Jun 07 - 04:17 PM

It can't be much fun living with that hanging over you.

Subject: RE: Salman Rushdie - Outrage.
From: Peace
Date: 19 Jun 07 - 04:15 PM

They had the bounty for years. Rushdie is still alive.

Subject: RE: Salman Rushdie - Outrage.
From: Peace
Date: 19 Jun 07 - 04:09 PM

This 'blame the victim' shit is taking over too many mindsets.

Subject: RE: Salman Rushdie - Outrage.
From: Peace
Date: 19 Jun 07 - 04:07 PM

Fuck Islam and its Fatwas. Arseholes.

Subject: RE: Salman Rushdie - Outrage.
From: greg stephens
Date: 19 Jun 07 - 04:03 PM

McGarth: in point of fact, if you were Rushdie you'd have been asked if you wanted it.

Subject: RE: Salman Rushdie - Outrage.
From: John Hardly
Date: 19 Jun 07 - 04:00 PM

Hey, M,

Which are the protestants who are demanding a music free nation?

Subject: RE: Salman Rushdie - Outrage.
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 19 Jun 07 - 03:42 PM

If I were in a community where they were dead opposed to music on religious grounds, such as is the case with some extreme Protestant and Islamic Fundamentalists I'd be careful about singing on the street corners, that's true enough. That wouldn't mean I'd agree with the bastards, it's about common sense.

If I were Salman Rushdie I think I'd be very pissed off at the British Government for stirring the shit like this.

Here lies the body of old John Gray
Who died defending his right-of-way.
He was right — dead right — as he rolled along,
But he's just as dead as if he'd been wrong.

Subject: RE: Salman Rushdie - Outrage.
From: Peace
Date: 19 Jun 07 - 03:39 PM

This has nothing to do with the 'sacred culture of the Muslim world'. This has to do with fucking maniacs who have gotten away with terror for too many bloody years. Perhaps world leaders should get permission before they say anything that might upset the greatest group of lunatics on the planet. Yeah. That would be a good thing to do.

Gee, Islam--or which ever group of fucking fundies speaks for you today, would it be OK for us to hold an election? Wake up.

Subject: RE: Salman Rushdie - Outrage.
From: Peace
Date: 19 Jun 07 - 03:31 PM

'80,000 pounds bounty on head of Rushdie

London, June 19: Protesting against Britain's decision to Knight Salman Rushdie, an Iranian Group on Tuesday announced an 80,000 pound bounty on his head prompting the authorities to review the security of the controversial India-born author.

The Scotland Yard is reviewing security around Rushdie, who turned 60 today, and is all set to get round the clock police protection.

The bounty was offered by the Tehran-based hardliners 'the organisation to commemorate the martyrs of the Muslim world', which said it would pay an 80,000 pounds reward for anyone "who was able to execute the apostate Salman Rushdie".

Rushdie spent a decade under the threat of an Islamist death sentence after his book the satanic verses was deemed blasphemous over its irreverent depiction of the prophet.'

Great bunch of folks. Their edicts just reek of love.

Subject: RE: Salman Rushdie - Outrage.
From: Peace
Date: 19 Jun 07 - 03:28 PM

"Rushdie was forced to go into hiding for years after the spiritual leader Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini issued a death sentence against the author for blasphemy in a fatwa (edict) in 1989."

Subject: RE: Salman Rushdie - Outrage.
From: Peace
Date: 19 Jun 07 - 03:23 PM

"Britain has voiced "deep concern" after a Pakistani minister appeared to state that Salman Rushdie's knighthood justified suicide bombings."

Definitely something in the water . . . .

Subject: RE: Salman Rushdie - Outrage.
From: 282RA
Date: 19 Jun 07 - 02:48 PM

Then there was Theo Van Gogh who directed a short film written by a Muslim woman concerning violence against women in Islamic culture.

Van Gogh was gunned down in cold blood by a Muslim man living in Holland. Van Gogh's last words were, "Can't we talk about this?" as he lay dying in the street. The killer's response was to shoot Van Gogh several more times.

Subject: RE: Salman Rushdie - Outrage.
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 19 Jun 07 - 02:44 PM

You don't get it do you, why should we expect them to meet our standards, or vice versa, what we haven't tried is leaving them alone to get on with their lives.
I would have thought that America after their experience in Vietnam would have been wary of getting into another situation like that, yet still they walk into Iraq, and our damn fool of a Prime Minister backs them. Why can't we leave them alone?
They have different standards to us, leave it at that.

Subject: RE: Salman Rushdie - Outrage.
From: beardedbruce
Date: 19 Jun 07 - 02:42 PM

Nor do they allow the use of alcohol. But you seem to think the West should comply with the standards of the Islamic nations...


And no more pork products. It might annoy them.

Subject: RE: Salman Rushdie - Outrage.
From: greg stephens
Date: 19 Jun 07 - 02:37 PM

McGrath: your position is impeccably logical and ethical. Now, the Taliban don't allow instrumental music, they think it is irreligious. So, have you thrown away your guitar? And if not, why not?

Subject: RE: Salman Rushdie - Outrage.
From: beardedbruce
Date: 19 Jun 07 - 02:28 PM

There is a duty to take into account the predictable consequences of ANY actions. Sometimes there are adequate reasons that justify doing things which is known to have some undesirable consequences. I don't think that this is the case when it comes to the actions ond declarations of many Islamic countries.

Why are THEY not held to the standard you hold the West to?

Do you really think they are that inferior to you?

Subject: RE: Salman Rushdie - Outrage.
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 19 Jun 07 - 02:21 PM

When it comes to breaches of international law and refusal to comply with UN resolutions the USA and Israel are not really in any position to point the finger.

But that's thread drift.
..........................
My point is, there is a duty to take into account the predictable consequences of our actions. Sometimes there are adequate reasons that justify doing things which we know will have some undesirable consequences. I don't think that this is the case when it comes to this public honour for Rushdie.

Subject: RE: Salman Rushdie - Outrage.
From: beardedbruce
Date: 19 Jun 07 - 02:16 PM

"It is wrong to expect other nations to share our standards"

So, you are saying that WE should not expect them to meet OUR standards, but it is OK to require US to meet THEIR standards???????


You really don't consider them to be equal to the West, then?

Subject: RE: Salman Rushdie - Outrage.
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 19 Jun 07 - 02:12 PM

It is wrong to expect other nations to share our standards, you know little things like democracy?
Not that our version of democracy ios anything to shout about!
G

Subject: RE: Salman Rushdie - Outrage.
From: heric
Date: 19 Jun 07 - 02:09 PM

cultural room-for-improvement-in-some-details maybe

Subject: RE: Salman Rushdie - Outrage.
From: Peace
Date: 19 Jun 07 - 02:09 PM

Fundamentalists are arseholes.

Subject: RE: Salman Rushdie - Outrage.
From: beardedbruce
Date: 19 Jun 07 - 02:06 PM

And YOU sound like you do not think that the Islamic nations should be held to the standards YOU hold the Western ones to: Is that because of their racial "inferiority", or do you just think that they are right and we are wrong?

Subject: RE: Salman Rushdie - Outrage.
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 19 Jun 07 - 02:03 PM

Sorry Bruce, but sometimes you sound the tensy weensyest bit Paranoid!
G.

Subject: RE: Salman Rushdie - Outrage.
From: beardedbruce
Date: 19 Jun 07 - 01:56 PM

McGrath,

So you agree that the Islamic nations are wrong for threatening Israel and the West? You agree that Iran does NOT have the right to violate international law and build those uranium enrichment olants? You agree that Iran and Syria are wrong for supplying arms to terrorists in Lebanon?

If not, YOU are the one pouring gasoline on the fire.

Subject: RE: Salman Rushdie - Outrage.
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 19 Jun 07 - 01:53 PM

Bloody stupid idea agreed. mg

Subject: RE: Salman Rushdie - Outrage.
From: Peace
Date: 19 Jun 07 - 01:51 PM

I wonder if it has anything to do with something in the water.

Subject: RE: Salman Rushdie - Outrage.
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 19 Jun 07 - 01:48 PM

"It's my can of petrol. What rightbhave you to you suggest I shouldn't pour it on that bonfire."

Subject: RE: Salman Rushdie - Outrage.
From: M.Ted
Date: 19 Jun 07 - 01:33 PM

Knighthood? Whatever.....

Subject: RE: Salman Rushdie - Outrage.
From: beardedbruce
Date: 19 Jun 07 - 01:33 PM

Luke 22:36

36 Then He said to them, "But now, he who has a money bag, let him take it, and likewise a knapsack; and he who has no sword, let him sell his garment and buy one.

Subject: RE: Salman Rushdie - Outrage.
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 19 Jun 07 - 01:32 PM

Mybe it's just me, but when I read some of the above can't help thinking about the story of two social workers that stubled across a battered, bleeding body in the street. Said one," The man who did this....he really needs our help"

Subject: RE: Salman Rushdie - Outrage.
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 19 Jun 07 - 01:25 PM

If I was Salman Rushdie I wouldn't want the knighthood if it was going to cause all this trouble.

Subject: RE: Salman Rushdie - Outrage.
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 19 Jun 07 - 01:18 PM

I agree with George - this knighthood was a bloody stupid idea.

Subject: RE: Salman Rushdie - Outrage.
From: kendall
Date: 19 Jun 07 - 01:00 PM

Giok, by way of balance, they started it all around 700 AD when they invaded North Africa and Spain. They butchered tens of thousands in their zeal to expand Islam.

Subject: RE: Salman Rushdie - Outrage.
From: John Hardly
Date: 19 Jun 07 - 12:59 PM

"Not exactly....Elisha asked GOD to send the bears. Presumably, God made the decision as to the fairness.

The fatwah is assuming the role of GOD and calling on ignorant humans to assume the role of bears. very presumptuous "

That's what I was getting at. I might view the Rushdie circumstance differently if what was called for against him required the supernatural to determine the "fairness".

Instead, you compare the two.

Subject: RE: Salman Rushdie - Outrage.
From: concertina ceol
Date: 19 Jun 07 - 12:52 PM

you'd never get the head through passport control with a bounty on it

Subject: RE: Salman Rushdie - Outrage.
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 19 Jun 07 - 12:49 PM

Islamic extremists have placed an £80,000 bounty on the writer's head.

Subject: RE: Salman Rushdie - Outrage.
From: Bill D
Date: 19 Jun 07 - 12:49 PM

Not exactly....Elisha asked GOD to send the bears. Presumably, God made the decision as to the fairness.

The fatwah is assuming the role of GOD and calling on ignorant humans to assume the role of bears. very presumptuous

Subject: RE: Salman Rushdie - Outrage.
From: John Hardly
Date: 19 Jun 07 - 12:38 PM

hmmm...

...so the fatwah was calling up untrained bears -- right out of the woods -- to kill Rushdie?

Subject: RE: Salman Rushdie - Outrage.
From: Ebbie
Date: 19 Jun 07 - 12:33 PM

John Hardly, I *always* trim the fat off salmon. Truly. Especiazlly off the king.

Subject: RE: Salman Rushdie - Outrage.
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 19 Jun 07 - 12:24 PM

Bruce, it would appear that you in common with your president and our prime minister, don't subscribe to the old bible proverb, "A soft answer turneth away wrath: but grievous words stir up anger."
The Bible, Proverbs 15:1.
G

Subject: RE: Salman Rushdie - Outrage.
From: Bill D
Date: 19 Jun 07 - 12:04 PM

You have to be careful when you insult religious icons...

from 2nd Kings:
"2:23 And he went up from thence unto Bethel: and as he was going up by the way, there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head.
2:24 And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the LORD. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them."

attempts at explanation here

I am tired of this sort of attitude...from ANY group. There is a huge difference between being slandered in such a way that it causes demonstrable harm, and merely disliking what others say about you or your beliefs. There are remedies for the former, but pronouncing death sentences for imagined 'insults' is beyond the pale.

I wonder if Rushdie was consulted and if this outcome was debated before the public announcement. Surely *HE* realized there would be a reaction? In a world full of irrationality, one takes one's chances....and sometimes it is worth pushing the envelope to make a point.

Subject: RE: Salman Rushdie - Outrage.
From: John Hardly
Date: 19 Jun 07 - 11:51 AM

I always have the fatwah trimmed off before it leaves the kitchen. Salmon, however, need no trimming.

Subject: RE: Salman Rushdie - Outrage.
From: beardedbruce
Date: 19 Jun 07 - 11:51 AM

However THEY [the Islamic nations] have deliberately provoked an unnecessary piece of unpleasantness, and that is why the West is acting in the way it is.


If the West were to react the way the Islamic nations have, YOU would certainly be vocal in criticising it- So, why are you giving tacit approval to the Islamic nations reations?

Double standards indicate a failure to view one side or the other as fully human, and responsible.