BS: Obama is a socialist

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Sawzaw
Date: 19 Oct 08 - 10:27 AM

Man, this is so friggin wierd. You can't make this stuff up:

   Percy Sutton knew Al-Mansour well, since the two men had been business partners and served on several corporate boards together.As Sutton remembered, Al-Mansour was raising money for Obama's education and seeking recommendations for him to attend Harvard Law School."I was introduced to (Obama) by a friend who was raising money for him," Sutton told NY1 city hall reporter Dominic Carter. "The friend's name is Dr. Khalid al-Mansour, from Texas."Obama spokesman Ben LaBolt told Newsmax that Sutton's account was "bogus" and a "fabrication that has been retracted" by a spokesman for the Sutton family.
   He referred Newsmax to a pro-Obama blog published on Politico.com by reporter Ben Smith. In a September 3 blog entry, Smith wrote that "a spokesman for Sutton's family, Kevin Wardally" said that Sutton had been mistaken when he made those comments about Obama and Khalid Al-Mansour.
   Smith suggested the retraction "put the [Obama/Al-Mansour] story to rest for good."Wardally told Smith that the "information Mr. Percy Sutton imported [sic] on March 25 in a NY1 News interview regarding his connection to Barack Obama is inaccurate. As best as our family and the Chairman's closest friends can tell, Mr. Sutton, now 86 years of age, misspoke in describing certain details and events in that television interview."Asked which parts of Percy Sutton's statements were a "fabrication," LaBolt said "all of it. Al Mansour doesn't know Obama. And Sutton's spokesman retracted the story.
   The letter [to Harvard, which Percy Sutton says he wrote on behalf of Obama], the 'payments for loans' — all of it, not true," he added. Newsmax contacted the Sutton family and they categorically denied Wardally's claims to Smith and the Politico.com. So there was no retraction of Sutton's original interview, during which he revealed that Khalid Al-Mansour was "raising money" for Obama and had asked Sutton to write a letter of recommendation for Obama to help him get accepted at Harvard Law School.
   Sutton's personal assistant told Newsmax that neither Mr. Sutton or his family had ever heard of Kevin Wardally."Who is this person?" asked Sutton's assistant, Karen Malone. When told that he portrayed himself as a "spokesman" for the family, Malone told Newsmax, "Well, he's not."According to a 2006 New York magazine profile, Wardally is part of a "New New Guard" in Harlem politics that has been challenging the "lions" of the old guard, Charles Rangel and Percy Sutton. That makes him an unlikely candidate to speak on behalf of Sutton. Sutton maintains an office at the Manhattan headquarters of the firm he founded, Inner City Broadcasting Corporation. ICBC owns New York radio stations WBLS and WLIB.
   Sutton's son Pierre ("Pepe") runs ICBC along with his daughter, Keisha Sutton-James. Malone told Newsmax that she had consulted with Sutton's family members at the station and confirmed that no one knew Kevin Wardally or had authorized him to speak on behalf of the family. For someone claiming to be a "spokesman" for the Sutton family, who was authorized to call Percy Sutton a liar,
Wardally even got Percy Sutton's age wrong. Sutton is not 86, as Wardally said, but close to 88. He was born on Nov. 24, 1920. Wardally responded to a several Newsmax phone messages and emails with a terse one-line comment, maintaining his statement that Percy Sutton "misspoke" in the television interview. "I believe the statement speaks for itself and the Sutton Family and I have nothing further to say on the topic," he wrote in an email. Asked to explain why it was that no one at Inner City Broadcasting Corp. knew of him or accepted him as a family spokesman.
   Wardally responded later that he had been retained by a nephew of the elder Sutton, who "is in our office almost every week." Wardally works for Bill Lynch Associations, a Harlem political consulting firm. The nephew, Chuck Sutton, no longer works with the elder Sutton at Inner City Broadcasting, but for a high-tech start-up called Synematics. "Percy Sutton doesn't go out idly on television saying things he doesn't mean," a well-connected black entrepreneur who knows Sutton told Newsmax.
   Ben LaBolt's claim that "Al Mansour doesn't know Obama" was contradicted by Al Mansour himself in an extended interview with Newsmax. Comparing the revelation of his ties to Obama to the controversy surrounding Rev. Jeremiah Wright, Al Mansour said that he was determined to keep a low profile to avoid embarrassing Obama. "In respect to Mr. Obama, I have told him, because so many people are running after him… I was determined that I was never going to be in that situation," he told Newsmax.
   Al Mansour said he was deliberately avoiding any contact with the candidate. "I'm not involved in any way in celebrity sweepstakes," he said. "I wish him well, anything I can do if he lets me know, I'll let him know what I think I can do or can't. But I don't collect autographs. I wish him the best, and hope he can win the election."He repeatedly declined to comment on the Percy Sutton allegations, either to confirm or to deny them. "Any statement that I make would only further the activity which is not in the interest of Barack, not in the interest of Percy, not in the interest of anyone," Al Mansour said. Sen. Obama has refused to instruct Harvard Law School to release any information about his time there as a student, or about his student loans.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: CarolC
Date: 19 Oct 08 - 10:22 AM

No problem.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: artbrooks
Date: 19 Oct 08 - 10:14 AM

factcheck.org has discussed the oh-so-deep relationship between Obama and Ayers, and concluded that there is more there than Obama has previously stated, but still not much. Oh course, FactCheck is also funded by that radical leftist organization, the Annenberg Foundation...

United States has been designated by the globalists to be the breeding pool for the warrior class of the New World Order? Thanks for a morning giggle.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 19 Oct 08 - 04:18 AM

Oh, It's directly related, but if you don't care, I understand...but then YOU were the one who wanted FACTS, not opinions. Nonetheless, thank you for your post, responding to Sawzaw. I thought the 'LOLOLOL' was a bit inappropriate, myself. Sorta looked as if,...never mind. Hey, anytime you want some golden info on this subject, let me know. I don't know, as I said before, if you'd accept it..but it is accurate!
Regards,
GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: CarolC
Date: 19 Oct 08 - 04:02 AM

I don't particularly care one way or another, myself, but maybe if it's going to be done, a separate thread might be appropriate.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 19 Oct 08 - 03:57 AM

Fair to respond??....The problem started in the late 60's and early 70's...and yes, it began with a political agenda, to financially 'feed' the major corporations, and government, by increasing the tax base. The rest, I have posted before.....David Rockefeller, rightfully claims, to be one of the chief promoters of this agenda...

At this juncture, I'll stop, and ask you, or anyone, should I continue?

This subject, is very close to me, and I have an extreme working knowledge of it, having been in the field for decades, having written court reports, and a book on it. Wanna' go for it???

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: CarolC
Date: 19 Oct 08 - 03:40 AM

By the way, since I notice that press release is being selectively quoted, here's the rest of it. I don't agree with the use of terminology like predator in talking about children. I agree that we should call a child a child...


'A panel at the University of Chicago debates the merits of the juvenile justice system

Children who kill are called "super predators," "people with no conscience," "feral pre-social beings"–and "adults."

William Ayers, author of A Kind and Just Parent: The Children of Juvenile Court(Beacon Press, 1997), says "We should call a child a child. A 13-year-old who picks up a gun isn't suddenly an adult. We have to ask other questions: How did he get the gun? Where did it come from?"

Ayers, who spent a year observing the Cook County Temporary Juvenile Detention Center in Chicago, is one of four panelists who will speak on juvenile justice at 6 p.m. Thursday, Nov. 20, in the C-Shop of the Reynolds Club, 5706 S. University Ave.

The panel, which marks the 100th anniversary of the juvenile justice system in the United States, is part of the Community Service Center's monthly discussion series on issues affecting the city of Chicago.

The event is free and open to the public.

Ayers will be joined by Illinois State Sen. Barack Obama, Senior Lecturer in the University of Chicago Law School, who is working to block proposed legislation that would throw more juvenile offenders into the adult system; Randolph Stone, Director of the Mandel Legal Aid Clinic at the University of Chicago; Alex Correa, a reformed juvenile offender who spent 7 years in Cook County Temporary Detention Center; Frank Tobin, a former priest and teacher in the Detention Center who helped Correa; and Willy Baldwin, who grew up in public housing and is currently a teacher in the Detention Center.

The juvenile justice system was founded by Chicago reformer Jane Addams, who advocated the establishment of a separate court system for children which would act like a "kind and just parent" for children in crisis.

One hundred years later, the system is "overcrowded, under-funded, over-centralized and racist," Ayers said.

Michelle Obama, Associate Dean of Student Services and Director of the University of Chicago Community Service Center, hopes bringing issues like this to campus will open a dialogue between members of the University community and the broader community.

"We know that issues like juvenile justice impact each of us who live in the city of Chicago. This panel gives community members and students a chance to hear about the juvenile justice system not only on a theoretical level, but from the people who have experienced it."'

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: CarolC
Date: 19 Oct 08 - 03:33 AM

My own personal opinion is that the United States has been designated by the globalists to be the breeding pool for the warrior class of the New World Order, and for that reason, the cultural milieu that is being promoted through television, film, and especially video games is promoting a culture of violence, especially among the young. That, and financial constraints cause many households to have no parent in the home for many hours of the day (mostly because the parents are working, often times at multiple jobs, just to get by), so that the major influences on those young people are the popular culture that is being promoted by the corporate media, which I have already described as being one that promotes a culture of violence.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 19 Oct 08 - 03:23 AM

..and thank you, CarolC. What do you think happened to the parenting in this country, that would cause 'children' to pick up guns, and become 'predators'?..as your post indicates.

Why do you think, at this time in our history, has this become so prevalent?...(in 25 words or less)

T.V.?, Movies?,....or children left alone to be raised by their 'street peers'?.....I think we 'discussed' this problem before, remember??

And, I am not 'badgering' you, with this post. Rather, trying to point out, and underline, again, that NO ONE can replace the bonding between parents and children, while the BOTH parents run out from the home, to pursue careers, at the expense of their much needed presence, in the home, when they have younger children.....

Thank you, once again, for your post!
Regards,
GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: CarolC
Date: 19 Oct 08 - 03:10 AM

Nice try, though.


LOLOLOL

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: CarolC
Date: 19 Oct 08 - 03:08 AM

The only source we have even for the idea that Obama's campaign refused to respond is from the same blogs. There's no evidence that Obama's campaign has ever even been asked about it in the first place.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: CarolC
Date: 19 Oct 08 - 03:07 AM

LOLOL

The smell of desperation is getting quite pungent.

Writing a blurb about a book doesn't indicate anything. The book could very well be as Obama described it.

Here's a press release about the panel discussion. Pretty radical stuff...

http://www-news.uchicago.edu/releases/97/971104.juvenile.justice.shtml

The only place the rest of it shows up is on one blog, and in the comments section of the same blog. Neither of them provide any documentation other than the press release for the panel discussion.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 19 Oct 08 - 03:07 AM

Hey Sawzaw..by the way...I personally want to thank you for posting what you posted.....Thank you!
Warmest regards,
GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Sawzaw
Date: 19 Oct 08 - 03:03 AM

Vet what? Obama's campaign refused to respond. Seems like they would quash this rumor real quick if it is only a rumor.

Why won't the Obama campaign release his thesis and Obama's college transcript like a normal presidential campaign?

There must be something in it to hide frrom the public.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 19 Oct 08 - 02:50 AM

Well, Sawzaw, they did ask for sources!!....Doesn't mean they'll believe or accept it. But now that a pretty good source and proof was posted, watch them STILL be boneheaded, and act like they didn't see it...only what they selectively see and hear. That being said, still doesn't make McCain any better, either. As I've said before, as far as being president, they both would suck! Folks, we're in deep shit!

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Sawzaw
Date: 19 Oct 08 - 02:44 AM

Obama:

I am not freinds with Bill Ayres. He is just another guy in the neighborhood. "The notion that me knowing somebody who engaged in detestable acts 40 years ago, when I was 8 years old, somehow reflects on me and my values doesn't make much sense."

But:
Sen. Obama wrote a blurb for a 1997 Ayres book on the penal system. The book jacket mentioned Ayres' terrorist activities.

"Obama's review of Ayers' book says, "A searing and timely account of the juvenile court system, and the courageous individuals who rescue hope from despair

Michelle Obama chaired a panel for Ayers, and invited her husband to share the stage, to promote a program and a book by Ayers, to lower sentences and change court attitudes, toward juvenile offenders.

Ayers was an ex-officio board member and he and Obama worked closely, for years, between the Wood Fund and the CAC, to fund Ayers' pet projects, including Ayers' own Small School Project. Ayers' got lots of money for his own ideology. For 5 years Obama distributed over $100M with Ayers' help. The two of them decided who got funds and who didn't. They favored a heavily ethnic agenda, and when all the money was gone, they closed down. Annenberg's own report shows that NOTHING was achieved in the school - and indeed the money only went to external partners, to which schools had to try to attach themselves.

Ayers: Everything was absolutely ideal on the day I bombed the Pentagon. The sky was blue. The birds were singing. And the bastards were finally going to get what was coming to them.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: CarolC
Date: 19 Oct 08 - 02:02 AM

LOL

Right wing reactionaries need to learn to get their stories straight. There's another fictional hate-mongering smear campaign going around that says Obama's education was paid for by Tony Rezko.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: CarolC
Date: 19 Oct 08 - 01:45 AM

The only place that story shows up is blogs and forums and none of them provide any documentation whatever. I guess we can put that one in the stinky circular file where it belongs.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Janie
Date: 19 Oct 08 - 01:26 AM

Sawzaw,

Suggest you vet your sources. (And I wish others, supporters of either candidate, would do the same.)

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: artbrooks
Date: 19 Oct 08 - 01:24 AM

Occam's Razor says that the simple explanation is usually the most accurate one...this is otherwise known as "keep it simple, stupid". Obama borrowed money, like most college students, and paid it back when he was able. According to Michelle Obama, as reported by FOX: "when she and her husband left law school, the monthly payments on their school loan debt was more than their monthly mortgage payment. She said they only got out of that debt when Barack Obama wrote his two books, "The Audacity of Hope" and "Dreams from My Father."

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Alice
Date: 19 Oct 08 - 01:23 AM

Folklore? Tales Tall And Otherwise (thread name game)

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Sawzaw
Date: 19 Oct 08 - 01:12 AM

Well Well Well.

Who paid for Obama's Harvard Ejucaition?

Pause.

Don't see no volinteers out thar so here goes.

An influential, radical black Muslim with close ties to the Saudi royal family and an outspoken opponent of Israel helped finance Obama's law school education. Obama's benefactor at the young age of 25 is Dr. Khalid Abdullah Tariq al-Mansour a/k/a Donald Warden. Here are some facts you should know about al-Mansour according to a investigative report:

* "He is well known within the black community as a lawyer, an orthodox Muslim, a black nationalist, an author, an international deal-maker, an educator, and an outspoken enemy of Israel."

* In a 1995 book, "The Lost Books of Africa Rediscovered," he alleged that the United States was plotting genocide against black Americans.

* He was the mentor of Black Panther Party founder Huey Newton and his cohort, Bobby Seale.

* Al-Mansour's more recent videotaped speeches focus on Muslim themes, and abound with anti-Semitic theories and anti-Israel vitriol.

* At the same time he was raising money for Obama's education he was representing top members of the Saudi Royal family seeking to do business and exert influence in the United States.

* He advises Prince Alwaleed bin Talal in his U.S. investments. Prince Talal is most famous for offering $10 million to the City of New York following 9/11, a contribution turned down by Mayor Rudy Giuliani because the Prince said American policies were to blame for the terrorist attacks. Prince Alwaleed has made tens of millions in contributions to Muslim-American charities, some of whose leaders have been charged by our government with terrorism-related ties. Prince Alwaleed also donates millions to Harvard for Islamic studies.

Newmax sought a response from the Obama campaign about the financial assistance Obama received from al-Mansour, but the campaign refused to respond. This disclosure came in a very unlikely fashion. Percy Sutton, a prominent African-American businessman, was being interviewed when he described how he first came to know Obama. "I was introduced to (Obama) by a friend who was raising money for him," Sutton told NY1 city hall reporter Dominic Carter. "The friend's name is Dr. Khalid al-Mansour, from Texas,"

Yelling:
The campaign refused to respond? Dnag! Now theres is tha change we need fer shore.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: CarolC
Date: 18 Oct 08 - 11:39 PM

I'll definitely continue to refute things that I think are incorrect. But on the subject of how the world is run, there's no point in preaching to the choir. We are not in disagreement about that. We are only in disagreement about whether or not getting Obama elected will make any difference. I think there is a possibility that it could, so I am following my conscience and debunking any BS I see being posted about him.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 18 Oct 08 - 11:35 PM

Like you were to me?? Like I said in an earlier post, on another thread, There is a double standard.   Truce? You don't nag and argue with me about every letter and period I type, and I don't 'badger'(as you say) you. How 'bout it??

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: CarolC
Date: 18 Oct 08 - 10:07 PM

Listen, one might be tempted to think that they are preaching to someone who is an innocent on these matters, but they are not. They are, as I have said before, making a very large assumption. A perusal of my posting history would show exactly what I know and what I don't know. So quit badgering me, ok?

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 18 Oct 08 - 09:57 PM

From: CarolC
Date: 18 Oct 08 - 09:54 PM

It is known and documented fact that the US has been interfering in other countries' democracies for decades, getting rid of leaders who aren't willing to do our bidding, even democratically elected ones, and installing puppets who are. The government of this country has been trying to get rid of Chavez for years.

Duh!!! Want a list?

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 18 Oct 08 - 09:56 PM

2oo!

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: CarolC
Date: 18 Oct 08 - 09:54 PM

It is known and documented fact that the US has been interfering in other countries' democracies for decades, getting rid of leaders who aren't willing to do our bidding, even democratically elected ones, and installing puppets who are. The government of this country has been trying to get rid of Chavez for years.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: artbrooks
Date: 18 Oct 08 - 09:27 PM

reviled by the government of this country? It seems to me that Mr. Chavez is generally treated as he deserves...which is to be ignored. And, saving your presence, to think that the US government wants to dominate the world is just silly.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 18 Oct 08 - 09:27 PM

Yeah!..China thinks so too!

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: CarolC
Date: 18 Oct 08 - 09:22 PM

There's nothing wrong with Hugo Chavez. He's reviled by the government of this country because he is an impediment to their goal of total world domination.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Don Firth
Date: 18 Oct 08 - 07:50 PM

Hey, can someone tell me what is wrong with Hugo Chavez--other than the fact that when Bush tells him to jump, instead of saying, "Yessir, how high?" he says, "Screw you!" ?

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 18 Oct 08 - 03:42 PM

From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 18 Oct 08 - 11:45 AM

""GfS is correct that a balance of capitalism and socialism is the best way to go.

Watch out, Don, Agreeing with me means two things...the crazies will still form lynch mobs to clobber you..and the other is..well, you might be sane, too!

Cheers!

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 18 Oct 08 - 12:38 PM

Some things are best done by a person working in his ow her own, or with a few others, with resources they can get hold of through their own efforts. That's private enterprise.

Some things need a lot of people to work together, with resources they have to get from elsewhere. That means some kind of public enterprise, either based on a co-operative of some sort, or with the local or national elected government involved.

Or it means a corporate business model, which increasingly means the banks and the dodgy investment scheme they have set up, are in control.

There's no reason why private enterprise and public enter[rise can't exist alongside each other perfectly happily. The same can be true of corporate enterprise, but not in a dominating role.

What has happened is that people have bought into the idea that private enterprise and corporate enterprise are the same thing, and that there is no room for anything else. And what that in practice means is that corporate enterprise (ie the banks and the investment funds) dominate everything, and to a growing extent grind down real "private enterprise".

In our town we've got two places you can go to to fix a pushbike. There's a great little bicycle shop, selling and repairing, tucked away in a side street. Rapid friendly service, fix anything, chat about anything, can supply anything.

And we've also got a great big Halfords with a bike section. Nothing like as good, costs you more and takes longer to do the work. But they have a big store in a shopping centre, and lots of advertising.

Yesterday I had to take a bike in to be fixed, and of course I went to the little shop. "We're closing down in seven weeks".

Another nail in the coffin of genuine free enterprise, and a victory for corporate business.

Diatribes against socialism are picking the wrong target, and letting the real enemy get away with murder.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 18 Oct 08 - 11:45 AM

""GfS is correct that a balance of capitalism and socialism is the best way to go. They are natural partners and should be able to work together quite effectively (as they presently do in most if not all western democracies). The endless diatribes that bounce back and forth between Left and Right are not helping things much, they are simply maintaining strife and distraction.""

Exactly what I've been getting clobbered for saying, these many years LH.

Also Capital and Labour! Neither can exist in the modern world, without the other.

The days when a man could establish a small farm, and be totally self sufficient, are over.

The socialist, who would destroy capital, has no idea of the cosequences. His hatred is based on a misunderstanding of what capital does, and what really surprises me is that some of the best educated men I know, cannot see that without capital to drive production, there would be Nothing for labour to do to earn a living.

Likewise, the capitalist who complains about the attitude of labour cannot see that without labour to DO the producing, he would have NO capital.


What is it, for God's sake, that is so difficult to understand about finding a workable balance that gives each side what it needs to be reasonably happy.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Amos
Date: 18 Oct 08 - 11:07 AM

Raising a false issue in the hopes of locking in public attention is a frivolous misuse of the law for political gain.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 18 Oct 08 - 10:14 AM

'Obama is a socialist......'

you should be so lucky!

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: CarolC
Date: 18 Oct 08 - 03:22 AM

Even taking it to court under the circumstances is an abuse of power. When the courts are used as a way of suppressing legitimate votes in the absence of any wrongdoing, that is an illegal abuse of power.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/27245181#27245181

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/27245744#27245744

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 18 Oct 08 - 02:52 AM

I certainly hope so. I'm sure more will come out. Until then, I think it best to have an open mind, and just wait....without bias, or blockage.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Amos
Date: 18 Oct 08 - 02:48 AM

I am asking if there are any facts, aside from what we've already recounted on this thread.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 18 Oct 08 - 02:43 AM

I just re-read my post, before this one......Has everyone fallen off their rockers?? I can not believe, that anyone even needed to post it

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 18 Oct 08 - 02:36 AM

Are there ANY specific claims of fact? Or is this just another loud noise from sinking ship?

I guess its going to court. Amos, I would think you'd be more interested in wanting ALL the facts to come out, and if there was wrong doing, for the guilty to be brought to justice, for the good of the country..than just promoting their line of defense, no matter what the facts would turn out to be...don't you think?

I'd be more interested in the facts coming out, intact, and letting the chips fall where they fall. I'm pretty sure, you'd think that would be unreasonable, but in actuality, the truth coming out, is more important.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Amos
Date: 18 Oct 08 - 02:17 AM

According to the report sI have seen ACORN hired local temps tor egister voters and when ACORN received cards with unlikely names they flagged them before turning them all in, as required to do by law. They also penalized or fired the temps who pulled such stunts.

Where was the law-breaking here?

Are there ANY specific claims of fact? Or is this just another loud noise froma sinking ship?


A

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 18 Oct 08 - 02:08 AM

Is that a fact????..and of course, you are privy to knowing this??

There you go again......

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: CarolC
Date: 18 Oct 08 - 01:45 AM

ACORN has not done anything wrong, and they have not broken any laws.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: CarolC
Date: 18 Oct 08 - 01:42 AM

It might make Ayers legit and it might not. I don't know. But if Obama is a terrorist by association because of his having served on that board with Ayers, then that would mean that the Annenburgs, and by extension, McCain, himself are also terrorists for having even stronger ties with Ayers than Obama. The Annenburgs put Ayers on that board, and they have contributed to the McCain campaign. So McCain is being funded by terrorist supporters.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Amos
Date: 18 Oct 08 - 01:29 AM

Sawz:

What is your objection to the working relationships with ACORN, anyway? As a matter of record, they flagged any names they received from their temp workers which seemed improperly listed.

Would you think it preferable that they did not go out to register voters? If so, why?

If not, how would you suggest they manage the situation where the temp workers--minimum wage at best-- brought back a percentage of improperly listed names?


A

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: CamiSu
Date: 18 Oct 08 - 01:17 AM

Sawz--

I'm a bit intrigued by your yelling. Actually not. I have been dismayed to hear the shrill slogans being put out at the Republican rallies, as well as the boos and shouts of "Traitor" and "Kill him!" Such mob manipulation scares me, not accusations of "Socialist!"

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Sawzaw
Date: 18 Oct 08 - 12:28 AM

First of all, anybody can quote anything I post and jump in my shit all they want but I advise them to wear boots.

What does it take to be a good community organizer? When Barack Obama trained community organizers for an ACORN subsidiary, Project Vote, he taught from the 1971 book 'Rules for Radicals', by the late socialist Saul Alinsky.

Although he attended Occidental College, and graduated from Columbia University and Harvard Law School, Obama calls his Alinskyite experience "the best education I ever had." In this photo, Obama is teaching Alinsky's principles of "Power Analysis" and "Relationships built on self-interest" as seen written upon the blackboard .

http://theunionnews.blogspot.com/2008/10/obamas-organizers-rat-patrol.html

Obama: "The only involvement I've had with ACORN is, I represented them alongside the U.S. Justice Department in making Illinois implement a motor voter law that helped people get registered at DMVs."

He did, but that wasn't his only involvement. He also worked closely with ACORN's Chicago office when he ran a Project Vote registration drive after law school, and Obama did some leadership training for Chicago ACORN. The Woods Fund, where Obama served as a board member, gave grants to ACORN's Chicago branch; both organizations are concerned with disadvantaged populations in that city. And during the primaries of this election, Obama's campaign paid upwards of $800,000 to the ACORN-affiliated Campaign Services Inc. for get-out-the-vote efforts (not voter registration). Those services were initially misrepresented on the campaign's Federal Election Commission reports, an error that some find suspicious and others say is par for the course. ACORN's Chicago office and CSI have not been under investigation.

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/factchecking_debate_no_3.html

Subject: RE: BS: Obama is a socialist
From: Amos
Date: 18 Oct 08 - 12:25 AM

You're pulling a long bow, there, pal. As usual.

Obama was endorsed by NOW. Yet, mysteriously, no-one is accusing him of being a woman. Or would you care to make the case?


A