BS: Torture in Ireland and Iraq (Bobby Sands

Subject: RE: BS: Torture in Ireland and Iraq (Bobby Sands
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 12 Jun 07 - 02:20 PM

Did anyone see the film o TV about 'The Tipton Three'? Sorry if this is a bit of thread drift - but its not far a drift.

Subject: RE: BS: Torture in Ireland and Iraq (Bobby Sands
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 12 Jun 07 - 01:35 PM

No it doesn't actually. But torture isn't the only war crime.

Subject: RE: BS: Torture in Ireland and Iraq (Bobby Sands
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Jun 07 - 01:30 PM

Keith of Hertfordshire, I think shooting juveniles in the eyes with Plastic bullets constitutes torture on Ulster streets, don't you ?

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Subject: RE: BS: Torture in Ireland and Iraq (Bobby Sands
From: Jack Campin
Date: 12 Jun 07 - 12:41 PM

How do you propose to control what goes on in prisons in Uzbekistan, then?

It is *far* easier to get away with torture with the machinery of a state to protect you. Which is why the US franchises its torture operations to governments rather than gangs hiding under the floorboards of safehouses.

Subject: RE: BS: Torture in Ireland and Iraq (Bobby Sands
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 12 Jun 07 - 11:21 AM

I'm not surprised that the writer, from the link given, has suffered nightmares and panic attacks - so he should.

I'm against any kind of torture for whatever reason. However I did have to think carefully about it when teaching about Amnesty International in PSHE to year 10/11 pupils at school. If you ask the students if torture is justified they will all say that it isn't. If you then give them a what if ............ your child is kidnapped and one of the kidnappers is caught but won't say where the child is being held. The child is in grave danger. How far would you go to get the information that would help to rescue the child? It does make them think.

I am looking forward to seeing the Bobby Sands film.

I think that Keith A of Hertford has made a good point. The only trouble is that it is probably easier to control what goes on in prisons than what is done by, for example, people fighting for a cause, terrorists ...........

Subject: RE: BS: Torture in Ireland and Iraq (Bobby Sands
From: InOBU
Date: 12 Jun 07 - 09:40 AM

Sure Kieth. I would say, however, that if you find an instance of Bobby Sands torturing anyone, I would be rather amazed. If you are looking at mistreatment of prisoners in Irish wars, you would have to go very far back indeed if this is a conversation about the politics of the last outrage. I would say, begin with the Black and Tan war, but that would be wrong, if one goes further back to the White Boys, you will find nationalist outrages. But, that is not the point I had hoped to raise. Several of you said you don't think a film about Sands would be a good idea. I thought it would, as it whould show that we are repeting the mistakes of the past. Torture is becoming the methodology of fighting wars. You will find in the artical,

"Between January 2004 and January 2005, first at Abu Ghraib prison and then in Mosul, in northern Babil province, he tortured suspects, most of whom he said were innocent. He realised he had entered a moral dungeon when he found himself reading a Holocaust memoir, hoping to pick up torture tips from the Nazis."

There is a difference between fighting the cause of the last outrage, and learning from our past to stop it.

All the best
lor

Subject: RE: BS: Torture in Ireland and Iraq (Bobby Sands
From: skipy
Date: 12 Jun 07 - 09:27 AM

& Bravo 2 Zero was a TRUE story was it?
Write down what the public wants to believe, appear on the right shows & you will be rich for life!
Skipy

Subject: RE: BS: Torture in Ireland and Iraq (Bobby Sands
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 12 Jun 07 - 09:17 AM

Lor, can we widen the discussion to include the treatment of prisoners BY IRA men like Bobby Sands?
Most given real, physical, mutilating trture.
All finally murdered.

Subject: BS: Torture in Ireland and Iraq (Bobby Sands
From: InOBU
Date: 12 Jun 07 - 07:20 AM

In light of the Bobby Sands film conversations, I urge friends to read the following.

http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/we-got-it-wrong-says-former-torturer/2007/06/10/1181414139791.html

All the best
lor