Tech: Writing music on a Mac - ?

Subject: RE: Tech: Writing music on a Mac - ?
From: pavane
Date: 22 May 08 - 11:48 AM

Just a note that the two bugs in HARMONY mentioned above have now been fixed. Fixes will be in the next version 3.4.3 (No date planned yet)

Subject: RE: Tech: Writing music on a Mac - ?
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 22 May 08 - 07:20 AM

Incidentally, I'm happy to report that the learning curve for BarFly is steep - I've got the hang of it far sooner than I thought I would, to the point of putting down a tune by ear (viz. Nic Jones's "Outlandish Knight", which doesn't seem to be quite the same as any of the umpty-three versions on Folkinfo). It crashes occasionally, which isn't very endearing, but generally I'm a satisfied user - cheers, Jack.

Subject: RE: Tech: Writing music on a Mac - ?
From: pavane
Date: 19 May 08 - 08:24 AM

Now that I am back from holiday, I can look into it (Your fixes and my bugs)

Subject: RE: Tech: Writing music on a Mac - ?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 08 May 08 - 05:14 AM

Thanks! that shows what multiple checks can do. I can't find where I've put "The Scottish Folksinger" so I'll probably just replace that version of "Bonnie Lass Among the Heather" with "Queen Among the Heather" from "Till doomsday in the afternoon" - that's the one I hear people singing anyway.

The reason that BarFly missed that one is that it doesn't check the length of bars terminated with a double bar. This is because a double bar frequently comes before an anacrusis, and you'd get spurious errors. That's more or less what's happening in this example - the double bars mark line breaks in the text. That was a crude notational hack I got myself into for a while, back when some ABC programs had problems with staff lines that didn't terminate with a barline; I got the idea from old Scottish psalm books.

The other version has similar metre, though - the last bar of each line is extended, you could represent that either by a fermata ("H") or by a switch to 5/4.

Meanwhile, is this rewrite okay?

  X:0
  T:Bonnie Lass Amongst the Heather
  G:song
  S:Scottish Folksinger
  M:5/4
  L:1/8
  N:metre altered to avoid fermatas
  Q:1/4=88
  K:DDor
   FG |        A3 D D4 (EG)| G3   E   G4
  (EG)|[M:4/4] A3 A D3   D | c2 (BA) (Bc) d2-|d6
  (cd)|[M:5/4] e3 d d4 (AB)|(cB)(AG)  G4
  (AB)|[M:4/4] c2d2 A3   G | F2 (ED)  C2  D2-|D6|]

I try to avoid doing workarounds for bugs unless there's a really compelling reason - the little bugs you've found are presumably things that will be fixed in your next release.

Subject: RE: Tech: Writing music on a Mac - ?
From: pavane
Date: 08 May 08 - 03:47 AM

Jack's file has discovered two small bugs in HARMONY

1. On import, the abc sequence D2B>C| is incorrectly parsed. The > is reported as an error and ignored. You end up with two quavers (eight notes) rather than one dotted quaver and one semi quaver.

Workaround: code it as D2 B>C| That will work properly

2. Sometimes, but not always, the beaming of structures like b>c is wrong. The notes are correctly imported and played, but incorrectly displayed with two complete beams instead of one complete and one half beam.

Subject: RE: Tech: Writing music on a Mac - ?
From: pavane
Date: 07 May 08 - 05:11 AM

Some initial results:
I have imported the Dorian mode tunes, and though the tune is OK, I get some information messages, and warnings that bars are too short.
You can normally ignore these once you have checked them.

Example: Bonnie lass amongst the heather

(I just give these examples to show the structure validation which is done)

Info: no Clef defined. abc Default TREBLE has been used

Bar 3 in voice 1 is at leat a crotchet too short . Correct, it has only 4 beats in 5/4 time, ie. |G3 E G4|| )

Bar 4 in voice 1 is empty (Actually this is a feature or minor defect in HARMONY, where an extra bar is introduced at the M: change of time signature

Bar 5 in voice 1 is alt least 3 crotchets too short (correct)


But there does seem to be a bug when importing "To Daunton Me".
For some reason, it is objecting to some instances of the > but not others. Nothing to do with the mode!

Subject: RE: Tech: Writing music on a Mac - ?
From: pavane
Date: 07 May 08 - 04:12 AM

HARMONY can also add suggested chords 'within the mode' to a melody.
I will try it on some of the examples when I get back.

Subject: RE: Tech: Writing music on a Mac - ?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 07 May 08 - 03:44 AM

You can do something similar in BarFly. I don't use it - to be practical, microtonality needs to be supported in the ABC language itself, and I haven't managed to persuade any ABC implementor to do it. (I have a fairly well worked out spec for how it should go).

Subject: RE: Tech: Writing music on a Mac - ?
From: pavane
Date: 07 May 08 - 02:30 AM

Jack,
Just had a look at your file, there is a lot of it! As I am away on holiday tomorrow, I won't be able to give feedback for a while, but the abc looks straightforward.

But you mention such things as arabic scales. It is possible, in HARMONY, to gain access to all MIDI facilities, including fine-tuning notes by a specified number of "cents", hundredths of a tone. (This is already used for bends, for example)

This could in theory used in conjunction with 'Note styles' to emulate these scales.

Subject: RE: Tech: Writing music on a Mac - ?
From: pavane
Date: 07 May 08 - 02:10 AM

Yes, I wish I could offer it to MAC and LINUX users, but it was written in the only language I had available at the time, Visual Basic.

As for conversion to C, it took me 9 months just to convert it from VB3 to VB5 (It's a lot of code), so I think that is out of the question.

Maybe WINE will be able to handle it one day. But as it uses many Windows API calls to handle such things as MIDI sound and dynamic icons, I don't know if that will happen.

Subject: RE: Tech: Writing music on a Mac - ?
From: M.Ted
Date: 06 May 08 - 07:50 PM

Pavane doesn't have a Mac version of Harmony, and I've expressed, over the years, an interest in checking it out, which is why I mentioned that it is now possible to use it on Mac--there certainly have been ways to run Windows for quite a while, but they were slow, and a music program run in such fashion would have likely slowed System 7 to a standstill--

Subject: RE: Tech: Writing music on a Mac - ?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 06 May 08 - 02:26 PM

The point for a Mac user is not having to put up with the hassles of having Windows at all (e.g running flat-out to stay in the same precarious place with anti-malware updates, and having to reinstall the OS when it slows to a crawl). It's been possible to do it since System 7 or thereabouts but it'd be like installing an outboard motor on a cat.   I've got some gubbins that will let me use Windows 98 but it's still in the shrinkwrap.

MacOS-native versions of Noteworthy and HARMONY would be nice to have, though.

Subject: RE: Tech: Writing music on a Mac - ?
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 06 May 08 - 01:54 PM

No offence, but if I was going down that route I'd install NoteWorthy, which I know, like and have paid for. But that's just me, and it's academic anyway as I've got a PPC Mac.

Subject: RE: Tech: Writing music on a Mac - ?
From: M.Ted
Date: 06 May 08 - 01:46 PM

Now that the OS 10.5 includes Boot Camp, which enables the use of the Windows OS, Harmony a viable option on the Mac--at least if one is inclined to install the MS system.

Subject: RE: Tech: Writing music on a Mac - ?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 06 May 08 - 11:48 AM

It's at

http://www.campin.me.uk/Music/Modes.abc

Only single-line melodies, and mostly within ABC 1.6, but about as heterogeneous a collection as you can get within those constraints.

Subject: RE: Tech: Writing music on a Mac - ?
From: pavane
Date: 06 May 08 - 02:49 AM

Why not. HARMONY specifically deals with, recognises and can harmonise the common modes, as allowed by the abc key signatures.

If there is anything which it can't handle, then there is obviously scope for a new improved version.

Subject: RE: Tech: Writing music on a Mac - ?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 05 May 08 - 11:55 AM

Sounds good - would you like to try my modes tutorial on HARMONY and tell me which bits create problems for it, if any?

Subject: RE: Tech: Writing music on a Mac - ?
From: pavane
Date: 05 May 08 - 10:23 AM

I have to pick up one or two one things here, although my program only runs on Windows

1. " So, once I've found a tune in abc format, I can convert it to MIDI (using the folkinfo abc converter), then use NoteWorthy to transpose or otherwise mess about with it."

Why use two programs when one (HARMONY) will do both? Import MIDI or abc, transpose (and play, edit, etc)

2. "BarFly has a feature that lets you animate playback of the ABC source ("Highlight Note Played" from the Play menu)"

HARMONY has a 'one finger' play option on the score, both forwards and backwards, giving pretty much the same effect. If you also use the menu option that shows the abc notes instead of lyrics, a similar effect is produced, i.e. you can see the abc note being played.

3. HARMONY does a lot of validation on the tune, whether imported from abc or MIDI, specifically including wrong length bars.

4. HARMONY has a drag and drop interface for putting notes on the staff.

My site

Subject: RE: Tech: Writing music on a Mac - ?
From: M.Ted
Date: 04 May 08 - 08:50 PM

I used Finale for a a number of years, then moved to Overture, which was more intuitive, and didn't require expensive upgrades every 18 months. I have been away from the work for a number of years, and am much chagrinned to find that *forced* obsolescence has left me without nothing that will work on my current operating system, even after spending more on software than I'd care to own up to--

My point being that, depending on what you need to write, a good freeware or shareware program may serve you as well as Finale or Sibelius, at considerably less cost--

Subject: RE: Tech: Writing music on a Mac - ?
From: Rowan
Date: 04 May 08 - 06:48 PM

Around the schools in my area the music teachers are fairly evenly divided between Finale and Sibelius, both of which operate on both platforms and both of which deal with notation and MIDI. It seems both have a strength the other lacks but I've not used either at this stage.

Cheers, Rowan

Subject: RE: Tech: Writing music on a Mac - ?
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 04 May 08 - 05:25 PM

Being pedantic, you *want* a learning curve to be steep

Rats! I'm always making that correction myself.

Subject: RE: Tech: Writing music on a Mac - ?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 04 May 08 - 05:19 PM

I vaguely remember discussing the Ring-a-Ring-a-Rosy legend on an urban folklore forum a few years back.

Being pedantic, you *want* a learning curve to be steep - that means you get on fast, the opposite of the way most people use the phrase. And in fact ABC is pretty easy to learn. BarFly doesn't put any gratuitous obstacles in the way.

The nice thing about ABC is the number of separate checks you've got that you've done it right:

- source alignment showing the form of the tune and parallel phrases
- automated error checking (BarFly counts bar lengths and does a few other checks)
- looking at generated staff notation
- listening to generated sound files or listening directly to the application's playback

Subject: RE: Tech: Writing music on a Mac - ?
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 04 May 08 - 04:41 PM

The editing part is interesting, but I want to get my tunes from notation, not from performance.

Subject: RE: Tech: Writing music on a Mac - ?
From: GUEST,Bob Ryszkiewicz
Date: 04 May 08 - 03:37 PM

GarageBand '08...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LB9Aj9h3Mck

Subject: RE: Tech: Writing music on a Mac - ?
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 04 May 08 - 09:23 AM

Cheers, Jack. I was thinking kind thoughts in your direction just the other day, when I picked up the abc of "Scornfu' Nancy" from your transcrption. Incidentally, are you the same person with whom I had some lengthy email/Usenet discussions of "Ring a ring a roses", about ten years ago?

I like the look of BarFly - and it's true, there's usually no reason to import MIDI if you can import abc. The learning curve looks a bit steep, though. I've downloaded Finale NotePad as well and will see how I get on with both. Melody Asst has more bells and whistles than I really want - I'm used to the NoteWorthy approach of putting a stave on screen & letting you get on with it.

Subject: RE: Tech: Writing music on a Mac - ?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 03 May 08 - 07:53 PM

And to follow up my own post: that modes tutorial works best with BarFly, since BarFly has a feature that lets you animate playback of the ABC source ("Highlight Note Played" from the Play menu). So you can see the modal idiosyncrasies of a tune in real time - it's a useful complement to what your ears are telling you (and a great help in catching transcription errors). No other ABC player application does that.

Subject: RE: Tech: Writing music on a Mac - ?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 03 May 08 - 06:52 PM

I use BarFly (a lot) and have done for many years. It does everything you want except for importing MIDI - which usually you don't want to do anyway (it will typically let you in for more tedious editing than simply re-entering the tune in ABC). Look at my website for the results:

http://www.campin.me.uk/

(I've done a few revisions to my modes tutorial lately, people might want to get the current one).

Subject: RE: Tech: Writing music on a Mac - ?
From: Ross Campbell
Date: 03 May 08 - 06:36 PM

Finale NotePad is available as a free download (upgradeable to fuller, paid-for versions) for Mac and PC (Finale NotePad 2007 for Mac OS 10.3.9, 2008 for 10.4+). I read about this in an earlier thread thread.cfm?threadid=50269#761621 . It did what I wanted (melody line with related lyrics, full text below) but seems to be capable of much more. The spec suggests that midi input and output, and conversion to staff notation, are all possible.

Ross

Subject: RE: Tech: Writing music on a Mac - ?
From: Amos
Date: 03 May 08 - 06:20 PM

A large collection of composition software for Macs exists. Here is one listing.

You can also go to Apple's site for software or to www.versiontracker.com and use them as starting points for your search.

Harmony Assistant looks like a good candidate. Here is a screen shot of its scoring output.

A

Subject: RE: Tech: Writing music on a Mac - ?
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 03 May 08 - 05:58 PM

For abc on a mac, Barfly

For something like noteworth, you could look at Melody or Harmony Assistant. There are mac and Windows versions.

Subject: Tech: Writing music on a Mac - ?
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 03 May 08 - 05:54 PM

On my PC, I use a program called NoteWorthy Composer to put notes on staves. Apart from having a nice straightforward interface, it has the great merit of importing and exporting MIDI files. So, once I've found a tune in abc format, I can convert it to MIDI (using the folkinfo abc converter), then use NoteWorthy to transpose or otherwise mess about with it.

However, my main computer is now a Mac, and NoteWorthy is PC-only. Has anyone got any experience of writing/editing/messing about with music on a Mac, and if so what have they used?