Song of Roland

Subject: RE: Song of Roland
From: katlaughing
Date: 08 Aug 08 - 06:28 PM

In case some haven't read it, it was Sieur Louis de Conte:
Personal Recollections of Joan of Arc by Mark Twain, which sparked my interest in this. What a GRAND read! Thanks to Little Hawk for pointing it out to me.

Subject: RE: Song of Roland
From: Anne Lister
Date: 08 Aug 08 - 06:17 PM

Yup - just done a bit of googling and sure enough, Stephen King's hero is based on Rowland/Roland from (a) the poem by Browning and (b) the English folk ballad.
Nowt to do with the Chanson de Roland except for a reference to a horn that's blown and the name of the hero.
The folk tale is a good'un, though. As is Alan Garner's book.

Anne

Subject: RE: Song of Roland
From: Anne Lister
Date: 08 Aug 08 - 06:09 PM

I always assumed (without having read the books) that Stephen King was drawing from the folk ballad of Childe Roland - not the same story at all. "Childe Roland to the Dark Tower came" - the same story that Alan Garner uses to spark off his "Elidor" book, but nothing to do with a battle at Roncevaux, which is the central matter of the Chanson de Roland.

Anne

Subject: RE: Song of Roland
From: katlaughing
Date: 08 Aug 08 - 03:09 PM

Ah, I should have looked farther, Lighter. Didn't realise it was the same.

Subject: RE: Song of Roland
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 08 Aug 08 - 12:13 PM

katlaughing, funny how that link features, again, Moncrieff's translation, while advertising Sayers's!

The "major themes" page is good as far as it goes. The stylistic comparison with "Star Wars" is apt, by the way.

Subject: RE: Song of Roland
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 08 Aug 08 - 12:04 PM

Looks like Scott Moncrieff's translation (1919). Good in its day but kind of creaky now. Penguin offers one by Dorothy Sayers, who unfortunately did better as a mystery writer. Her version is too singsongy for my taste.

In class I used Patricia Terry's version, inexpensive in used paperback:

http://www.alibris.com/booksearch?author=patricia+terry&title=roland

Subject: RE: Song of Roland
From: katlaughing
Date: 08 Aug 08 - 10:14 AM

Oh, and just for fun, you can read some analyses of it by some Anonymous Harvard students HERE.:-)

Subject: RE: Song of Roland
From: katlaughing
Date: 08 Aug 08 - 10:10 AM

-I don't know how accurate this is, but you may find it HERE to read, Jeri.

Thanks for the comments and info, folks!

Subject: RE: Song of Roland
From: Jeri
Date: 08 Aug 08 - 09:32 AM

I've never read it and would like to, preferably an English translation. I read very little French of any age. Of course, the stanzas will be shot all to hell.

The 'Song' is the inspiration for Stephen King's 'Dark Tower' series of books.

Subject: RE: Song of Roland
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 08 Aug 08 - 08:41 AM

Some composition about Roland was supposedly sung or recited or declaimed by the Norman juggler-bard Talliefer jut before the battle of Hastings in 1066. That was about a generation before the manuscript of the Chanson and, I believe, is the first and only known reference to Roland since he was mentioned by the Frankish chronicler Einhard in the early 9th C.

Almost unquestionably the poet of the _Chanson_ had a long oral tradition to draw upon, but its nature and extent are unknown. Very possibly Roland's fame and reputation were kept alive solely by his descendants - who might have been fairly numerous by 1100!

Subject: RE: Song of Roland
From: Anne Lister
Date: 08 Aug 08 - 04:28 AM

Although it's called the Song of Roland (La chanson de Roland) it's not, of course, a song in the sense we use the word today. It's a long piece and would require a particularly trained memory for it to be passed down orally. A bit like expecting someone to recite, declaim or sing their way through a short novel. I studied it at university which is, sadly, a long time ago. I can't imagine it would have been in frequent demand by audiences, (except very warlike ones!) so the incentive to pass it down orally would have been reduced. It does appear, however, to have been well known at the time, and as you're talking about a largely illiterate population, before the days of printing presses, its main method of transmission must have been oral at some stage.
A traditional version would, presumably, have become much reduced and simplified and, if it exists/existed at all, would have been in oral currency in northern France. Although the links suggest it has been preserved in different forms in Sicily (the Norman connection again).

Anne

Subject: RE: Song of Roland
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 07 Aug 08 - 08:33 PM

Agree with Lighter; have found nothing except reference to puppet theatre and street singers who have perpetuated the earlier records.
See Song of Roland

Subject: RE: Song of Roland
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 07 Aug 08 - 08:08 PM

The question of whether *the* Chanson de Roland ever had *any* oral currency is an open one. Personally I doubt it.

Subject: RE: Song of Roland
From: GUEST,Volgadon
Date: 07 Aug 08 - 04:38 PM

Sorry, I meant to say after the 15th century.

Subject: RE: Song of Roland
From: katlaughing
Date: 07 Aug 08 - 04:31 PM

Oh, really? Wiki page on it.

Subject: RE: Song of Roland
From: GUEST,Volgadon
Date: 07 Aug 08 - 04:13 PM

No and I don't think it really had much oral currency either.

Subject: Song of Roland
From: katlaughing
Date: 07 Aug 08 - 03:37 PM

I see, at wikipedia, there are a few modern bands who have done some version of this, but I am interested in finding if there are any trad versions of this epic. Thanks for any info.