BS: Cautious opinion---noted without comment

Subject: RE: BS: Cautious opinion---noted without comment
From: kendall
Date: 30 Oct 08 - 12:14 PM

I have fired a Thompson sub machine gun. It's impressive and makes a lot of fuss, but the recoil is pretty tame. I doubt that it was the recoil that caused this stupid "accident". More likely, fear or hot dogging. We will never know.

Subject: RE: BS: Cautious opinion---noted without comment
From: Rapparee
Date: 30 Oct 08 - 10:06 AM

I believe in Freedom Of Information -- but there's no requirement that I have to supply it to you.

Subject: RE: BS: Cautious opinion---noted without comment
From: Rapparee
Date: 30 Oct 08 - 10:05 AM

You can do that now, Peace. But I ain't a-gonna tell you how because it's too easy to figure out on your own.

Subject: RE: BS: Cautious opinion---noted without comment
From: Peace
Date: 29 Oct 08 - 11:48 PM

Stupidity never ceases to amaze me. What will we market next?

"Make your very own bio-weapon" then build a delivery system.

Suitable for ages 10-15.

Subject: RE: BS: Cautious opinion---noted without comment
From: Donuel
Date: 29 Oct 08 - 07:56 PM

Some say the Bush administration should never have happened.



condolences to the famaily and friends

and fire the ABC copy writer who qualifies the most simple truths!
That is an artifact from the Bush years, lets quit it.

Subject: RE: BS: Cautious opinion---noted without comment
From: Bill D
Date: 29 Oct 08 - 06:19 PM

I am convinced that the only reason that a 'club' of this sort would sponsor such an expo, is to 'interest' young boys to become more familiar with guns and thus to ensure future membership and support...etc. Not that this was necessary.

They 'could' have simply had a 'firearms safety' class, with NO loaded weapons where father who wanted good information could bring their kids.

But **FIRING** live ammo from weapons no kids should be allowed near?

It would be my guess that this would be their last such experiment.

Subject: RE: BS: Cautious opinion---noted without comment
From: SINSULL
Date: 29 Oct 08 - 04:51 PM

Do a Google search on 8 year old with machine gun and several examples turn up including a young girl shooting cars at a similar gun show. Also an eleven year old who can assemble an AK-47 in record time. Great!

Subject: RE: BS: Cautious opinion---noted without comment
From: Rapparee
Date: 29 Oct 08 - 04:50 PM

I contend -- as the NRA contended in their booklet on shooting in 1943 -- that there are NO "accidents" with firearms. There is only carelessness.

Like Mick, I am a gun owner and a gun user. I have a permit to "carry concealed" should I wish to do so (within the constraints imposed by law -- e.g., not into a school or a bar). A child's life was snuffed out by the carelessness of adults (and, possibly, a parent's inability to say, "NO!"). The father is being punished; I hope that the others will be.

Subject: RE: BS: Cautious opinion---noted without comment
From: PoppaGator
Date: 29 Oct 08 - 04:36 PM

It's hard to imagine any way that the father would not be found at least partially responsible.

But ~ I would be disinclined to punish him with anything more than a suspended sentence. He's undoubtedly punishing himself, and will continue to do so for the rest of his life. He does not pose a danger to anyone else in the future.

Now, for the idiot(s) who provided the venue where Dad was able to exercise such poor judgement ~ and who undoubtedly encouraged and reassured both father and son ~ no legal penalty available in any modern society is harsh enough. They need to be stopped before they kill again; a slow painful death would be about right.

Subject: RE: BS: Cautious opinion---noted without comment
From: beardedbruce
Date: 29 Oct 08 - 03:53 PM

Agreed, Mick.

Subject: RE: BS: Cautious opinion---noted without comment
From: Big Mick
Date: 29 Oct 08 - 01:49 PM

There is no justification. Everyone here knows that I am a gun owner. As a gun owner let me be very clear. A very thorough investigation needs to be done, and upon a solid evaluation and determination of whose negligence allowed this, someone needs to go to jail for a very long time. Honest accidents can occur with many objects. It is hard for me, given the respect I have for weapons and their potential for harm, to understand how an eight year old kid could be in the position to do harm to himself or others.

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: Cautious opinion---noted without comment
From: SINSULL
Date: 29 Oct 08 - 01:43 PM

I wonder how many other 8 year olds tried the gun before this disaster? From the outside, this all seems incredibly stupid. Is there anyone out there justifying it even in the hopes of avoiding a lawsuit?

Subject: RE: BS: Cautious opinion---noted without comment
From: EBarnacle
Date: 29 Oct 08 - 11:41 AM

He's a physician, specializing in Emergency Medicine and internal medicine. Just checked the web site.

Subject: RE: BS: Cautious opinion---noted without comment
From: Becca72
Date: 28 Oct 08 - 03:57 PM

Poppa..."medical director" is not necessarily a doctor. Sounds like an administrative position. Doesn't change the fact that he should have known better, sadly.

Subject: RE: BS: Cautious opinion---noted without comment
From: Rapparee
Date: 28 Oct 08 - 02:20 PM

As a responsible gun owner, I am appalled. As a human being, I am appalled. As someone who cares for kids, I am appalled.

As noted, it is quite possible to own (and even use) fully automatic weapons in the US -- AFTER the payment of federal and probably state licensing fees and very, very thorough background checks (the cops don't like folks running around with them).

This is the needless waste of a young boy's life. I can only imagine what horrors his father will be living with.

Subject: RE: BS: Cautious opinion---noted without comment
From: PoppaGator
Date: 28 Oct 08 - 02:09 PM

I wonder what the administration of Johnson Memorial Hospital, in Stafford Springs, Conn., thinks about this event, and about their medical director of emergency medicine.

I think that title means that guy is a doctor, right? And a ER doctor, to boot. In my part of the world, folks working in the ER know all about the dangers of firearms; they see gunshot wounds on a very regular basis.

Maybe they don't have such a down-and-dirty attachment to reality in Stafford Springs, where the head honcho at the ER thinks a submachine gun is fun to play with.

Subject: RE: BS: Cautious opinion---noted without comment
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 28 Oct 08 - 08:35 AM

Fully auto weapons require a federally issued 'stamp' to own and purchase, and require a very thorough background check. The stamp has to be renewed annually, and run about $300.00 a year, per weapon.
Sad, and unfortunate story.

Subject: RE: BS: Cautious opinion---noted without comment
From: kendall
Date: 28 Oct 08 - 08:23 AM

There is no word for this kind of stupidity.

Subject: RE: BS: Cautious opinion---noted without comment
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 28 Oct 08 - 08:18 AM

Don, while private individual ownership of fully automatic weapons is illegal in the US, exemptions are granted for approved licensed shooting ranges. The weapons are owned by the ranges, are rented to shooters and never leave the range premises. I'm not sure how that loophole got into the law, but it probably has something to do with making such weapons available to military reservists who don't have regular access to military equipment and ranges. That may be the justification, but I'd bet 90% of the rentals go to thrill-seekers who just want the experience of shooting a machine gun.

Subject: RE: BS: Cautious opinion---noted without comment
From: catspaw49
Date: 28 Oct 08 - 01:18 AM

A senseless and wasteful tragedy.................All the reasons have already been pointed out. Before reading the article I assumed the father was some hilljack redneck brainless fuckwit but then I read:

"Police said the boy's father, Charles Bizilj, attended the event with his son. The father is the medical director of emergency medicine at Johnson Memorial Hospital, in Stafford Springs, Conn.

Goes to show my own predjudice and also that education doesn't always teach common sense. But as for the comments of JACK CAMPIN, I couldn't agree more with SRS. There are things worse in this world than brainless fuckwits Mr. Campin........Heartless and cruel fuckwits for a start and for that YOU qualify. I'd prefer fewer of your type in the gene pool as well.

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Cautious opinion---noted without comment
From: Don Firth
Date: 27 Oct 08 - 10:53 PM

I do not believe the Darwin Awards are given to children. It was the adults who allowed this to happen who should have been removed from the gene pool before they had an opportunity to display their incredible stupidity.

Fully automatic firearms are illegal for private citizens to own in this country. What was one doing at a firearms expo? And why were they letting people play with it, even under supervision?

Someone sure as hell needs to be brought up on charges!

Don Firth

P. S. To the boy's father, if he was involved in allowing this to happen, I would first express my deepest and most heartfelt sympathy. Then, I would kick his ass from here to Timbuktu!

Subject: RE: BS: Cautious opinion---noted without comment
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 27 Oct 08 - 10:28 PM

Stuff it, Jack Campin. No child deserves to die because of their parent's stupidity, and if this is what you consider purging the gene pool, you're insane.

Capiche?

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Cautious opinion---noted without comment
From: Jack Campin
Date: 27 Oct 08 - 08:12 PM

Given the kind of people being eliminated from the gene pool, it's hard to feel it was such a bad thing.

Subject: RE: BS: Cautious opinion---noted without comment
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 27 Oct 08 - 08:03 PM

It is legal for children to fire a weapon if they have permission from a parent or legal guardian and are supervised by a properly certified and licensed instructor, Lt. Hipolito Nunez said.

"Certified" should be the right word to use of whoever allowed this to happen.

Subject: RE: BS: Cautious opinion---noted without comment
From: kendall
Date: 27 Oct 08 - 08:01 PM

The last I knew, sub machine guns were against federal law.

Subject: RE: BS: Cautious opinion---noted without comment
From: katlaughing
Date: 27 Oct 08 - 07:46 PM

Jesus fucking keyriced...sickening and stupid.

Subject: RE: BS: Cautious opinion---noted without comment
From: beardedbruce
Date: 27 Oct 08 - 07:33 PM

Automatic weapons are like atomic bombs- many of us know how to build them, but do not because it happens to be against the law.

"It is legal for children to fire a weapon if they have permission from a parent or legal guardian and are supervised by a properly certified and licensed instructor,"

". An 8-year-old is dead because adults used piss-poor judgement and demonstrated an appalling lack of good sense."

Absolutely.


But stupidity is often a capital offense.




"The 'People' don't NEED full auto weapons!!!!! "

And the "People" cannot legally get them, without a governmant permit and investigations.


But a nail, two pipes, and a two-by-four will maker an excellent shotgun. ( Mass-produced during WWII to drop in Europe)

Subject: RE: BS: Cautious opinion---noted without comment
From: Rapparee
Date: 27 Oct 08 - 06:52 PM

Besides, if you REALLY TRULY need one you can take one from someone who has one if you know how....

Subject: RE: BS: Cautious opinion---noted without comment
From: Sorcha
Date: 27 Oct 08 - 06:35 PM

Jesus keerist. That is all I can say here. HOW F   ING STUPID. I guess we can call this an NRA 'learning expericnce', huh?




PULL YOUR HEADS OUT, NRA! The 'People' don't NEED full auto weapons!!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Cautious opinion---noted without comment
From: meself
Date: 27 Oct 08 - 06:27 PM

"machine gun demonstrations and rentals"

Rentals?! "I'd like to rent a machine gun for a couple of hours, please. Yes, I'll have it back by five" ...

Subject: RE: BS: Cautious opinion---noted without comment
From: gnu
Date: 27 Oct 08 - 06:24 PM

Rap... when I asked, "How did he get near the gun?", that's what I meant. Unreal that he was allowed EVEN near the gun!

Subject: RE: BS: Cautious opinion---noted without comment
From: Genie
Date: 27 Oct 08 - 06:21 PM

Training an 8-year-old to use an automatic weapon?   Really brilliant!

Subject: RE: BS: Cautious opinion---noted without comment
From: Rapparee
Date: 27 Oct 08 - 06:12 PM

WESTFIELD, Mass. (AP) -- An 8-year-old boy died after accidentally shooting himself in the head while firing an Uzi submachine gun under adult supervision at a gun fair.

The boy lost control of the weapon while firing it Sunday at the Machine Gun Shoot and Firearms Expo at the Westfield Sportsman's Club, police Lt. Lawrence Vallierpratte said.

The boy, Christopher Bizilj of Ashford, Conn., was with a certified instructor and "was shooting the weapon down range when the force of the weapon made it travel up and back toward his head, where he suffered the injury," a police statement said.

Christopher died at Baystate Medical Center.

Police said the boy's father, Charles Bizilj, attended the event with his son. The father is the medical director of emergency medicine at Johnson Memorial Hospital, in Stafford Springs, Conn.

Although police called it a "self-inflicted accidental shooting," police and the Hampden district attorney's office were investigating, officials said.

"We are going to review all the circumstance regarding what happened, who was involved, what authorities they may or may not have had, who was supervising," District Attorney William Bennett said Monday.

It is legal for children to fire a weapon if they have permission from a parent or legal guardian and are supervised by a properly certified and licensed instructor, Lt. Hipolito Nunez said.

Those conditions were met in this case, he said. He declined to release the supervisor's name.

The event, run in conjunction with C.O.P Firearms and Training, said in an ad that people are allowed to fire weapons at vehicles, pumpkins and other targets at the event.

The club said it would offer machine gun demonstrations and rentals and free handgun lessons.

"It's all legal & fun - No permits or licenses required!!!!" reads the ad, posted on the club's Web site.

Officials with the private club and the firearms group could not be reached for comment. Messages left on answering machines for the club and the C.O.P. group were not returned Monday.

The sportsman's club was founded in 1949 and describes itself on its Web site as promoting "the interest of legal sport with rod, gun, and bow and arrow, both directly and through training."

It has eight firing ranges as well as archery and fishing facilities located on 375 acres in Westfield, about 100 miles west of Boston.

1. An 8 year old has neither the body mass or the strength to handle a submachine gun.

2. A fully automatic weapon climbs from the recoil. Even with a Cutts Compensator the Thompson Submachine Gun will climb.

3. Both of these things should have been realized by the adults in charge.

4. An 8-year-old is dead because adults used piss-poor judgement and demonstrated an appalling lack of good sense.

5. Ain't no civilian needs a submachine gun anyway.

Subject: RE: BS: Cautious opinion---noted without comment
From: Bill D
Date: 27 Oct 08 - 05:26 PM

Not much one can say...someone was stupid, and we have one more tragedy.

"...................................." fill in the blanks.

Subject: RE: BS: Cautious opinion---noted without comment
From: gnu
Date: 27 Oct 08 - 05:19 PM

8 years old? How did he get near the gun? Sniff... how terrible.

Subject: RE: BS: Cautious opinion---noted without comment
From: Cluin
Date: 27 Oct 08 - 05:17 PM

...some say should never have happened.

What do the rest say?

I can't even imagine how this happened.

Subject: RE: BS: Cautious opinion---noted without comment
From: Bobert
Date: 27 Oct 08 - 05:14 PM

Insanity...

Subject: RE: BS: Cautious opinion---noted without comment
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 27 Oct 08 - 05:12 PM

.

Subject: BS: Cautious opinion---noted without comment
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 27 Oct 08 - 05:11 PM

Boy Accidentally Killed By Submachine Gun at Firearms Expo
ABC News - 39 minutes ago
By SARAH NETTER With his father and a firearms instructor standing nearby, an 8-year-old Connecticut boy shot himself in the head with a submachine gun yesterday, killing himself in an accident some say should never have happened.

Italics are mine.