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terrorist attacks in Mumbai - Nov 2008
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Subject: RE: terrorist attacks in Mumbai - Nov 2008 From: beardedbruce Date: 09 Jan 09 - 02:48 PM Nope, nothing here from Nickhere. Mostly Jews and Hindus killed, so it must be ok... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Mumbai From: GUEST,beardedbruce Date: 07 Jan 09 - 09:20 AM http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090107/ap_on_re_as/as_pakistan_india |
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Subject: RE: BS: Mumbai From: Rapparee Date: 07 Jan 09 - 08:58 AM So, where did the calls originate? Why weren't the Indian police and military all over it during the attacks? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Mumbai From: GUEST,beardedbruce Date: 07 Jan 09 - 08:26 AM The Mumbai transcripts, which were translated into English by Indian authorities and obtained by the newspaper The Hindu, show that the 10 gunmen who carried out the attacks were in close contact with their handlers throughout the siege. India says the handlers directing the attacks that left 164 dead were senior leaders of Lashkar-e-Taiba, a Pakistan-based militant group. The handlers told a team of gunmen who had seized a Jewish center to shoot hostages if necessary. "If you are still threatened, then don't saddle yourself with the burden of the hostages. Immediately kill them," he said. Six Jewish foreigners, including a rabbi and his wife, were killed inside the Jewish center. Later in the night, nearly 24 hours after the attacks began, the handlers urged the gunmen to "be strong in the name of Allah" "Brother, you have to fight. This is a matter of prestige of Islam," the handler said. "You may feel tired or sleepy, but the commandos of Islam have left everything behind, their mothers, their fathers." The gunmen were told several times not to kill any Muslim hostages. |
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Subject: BS: Mumbai From: GUEST,beardedbruce Date: 07 Jan 09 - 08:23 AM I looked for a thread to put this in, but no luck Transcript: Mumbai gunmen were commanded by phone AP - 1 hour, 8 minutes ago NEW DELHI - "We have three foreigners, including women," the gunman said into the phone. The response was brutally simple: "Kill them." Gunshots then rang out inside the Mumbai hotel, followed by cheering that could be heard over the phone. |
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Subject: RE: Obit: 155 Souls in India From: robomatic Date: 03 Dec 08 - 09:45 PM It seems most likely that the recent terrorist action was meant primarilly to stir the India/ Pakistan plot, (although the execution of Jews qua Jews is a disturbing development). It brings into clarity just how efficient a technique terror is when ten people can overthrow normality for a number six times in order of magnitude higher than themselves. The Indian nation, which is incredibly diverse, appears to be correctly absorbing the lessons that native Muslims (to India) were victims along with their Hindu neighbors and are alike horrified by these actions, which appear to have been coordinated and ordained out of Pakistan, though not necessarily connected to the 'government' there. And of course the terror campaign has been waged over and over against Pakistani citizens in order to foment local strife and weaken that government into impotence. As for the US, I think that those who think the President-elect is going to prove himself weak are going to be re-thinking that. American Presidents as a rule tend to throw their weight around be they Reps or Dems. The current occupant tended to throw his around in a very inefficient manner which tended to reward the people he was ostensibly against and enrich a whole number of people on the sidelines. The President-elect has shown himself a superb politician in achieving a maximum political rise with outstanding timing and temperament. If he shows anykind of similiar competence in office we shall be well served. |
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Subject: RE: Obit: 155 Souls in India From: Richard Bridge Date: 03 Dec 08 - 06:19 PM You mean apart from being the totem for resistance to US economic and military imperialism? You need more? |
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Subject: RE: Obit: 155 Souls in India From: Teribus Date: 03 Dec 08 - 11:14 AM Well tell us Richard Bridge what threat does Osama bin Laden pose to the world at large today? Can you, with any degree of certainty, tell whether he is alive or dead? If alive, his major preoccupation in life for the last seven years has been keepin' his scrawney hide in one piece by scrambling from one hole in the ground to another, never knowing from one day to the next whether today is going to be his last. |
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Subject: RE: Obit: 155 Souls in India From: Richard Bridge Date: 02 Dec 08 - 06:36 PM "Tell me "meself" what threat does Osama bin Laden pose today? When was the last time he actually posed a threat to anybody? I think that you will find the answers to those questions as being - None and September 2001." Oooh, can one bottle and sell that and it it illegal? |
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Subject: RE: Obit: 155 Souls in India From: meself Date: 02 Dec 08 - 06:34 PM Not sure what makes you so certain, but I hope you're right. I would feel better about it, though, had it been him rather than Saddam Hussein that the US went after with such lack of restraint ... |
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Subject: RE: Obit: 155 Souls in India From: Teribus Date: 02 Dec 08 - 06:18 PM "Stilly River Sage" I hate to disappoint you but whoever sits in the White House as President of the United States of America is of absolutely no consequence to me. Irrespective of the result I wouldn't lose one nanosecond of sleep over it. "meself" - Now please correct me if anything I state here is basically wrong: Clinton era: - 1993 Attack on WTC - 1998 OBL issues fatwah against the US and declares open season on Americans everywhere - Attacks on US Embassies in East Africa - Attack on USS Cole All the above were Al-Qaeda and planning for 9/11 in 2001 started shortly after the Cole was attacked. Clinton was offered bin Laden on a plate and refused the offer. Restrained use of US fire power by Clinton resulted in a few dead goats and destroyed a powdered milk factory in the Sudan. - 1998 Clinton is advised that Iraq under Saddam Hussein poses greatest threat to US Security. Clinton passes the Iraq Bill through Congress to make regime change in Iraq official US Foreign Policy. - December 1998, without reference to Congress, or to the UN, Clinton orders UNSCOM out of Iraq and launches an air assault on Iraq - It was called "Desert Fox" Next President arrives on the scene in 2001 to be greeted later that September by the worst attack by foreign nationals on the mainland of the USA, more people died on 11th September 2001 than died at Pearl Harbour on 7th December 1941. This attack was sponsored by the man that Clinton had let go years before. December 2001 - Taleban driven from what power they had in Afghanistan and Al-Qaeda dispersed, since that date they have been in hiding in caves and compounds along the Afghan Pakistan border - there they are no real threat to the USA. 2002 USA Administration unlike Clinton goes to the UN and to Congress with regard to Iraqi compliance to UN Security Council Resolutions requiring Iraq to disarm. Because for a second time the President of the USA has been advised that Iraq under Saddam Hussein poses a threat. UN drops the ball and dithers as it so often has done and America acts. Since then you have not been attacked, because those potential candidates for "rogue state" have been seriously discouraged and those terrorist groups wishing to attack you have been continually on the run in Afghanistan or drawn into fighting battles they cannot win in Iraq. Tell me "meself" what threat does Osama bin Laden pose today? When was the last time he actually posed a threat to anybody? I think that you will find the answers to those questions as being - None and September 2001. |
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Subject: RE: Obit: 155 Souls in India From: alanabit Date: 02 Dec 08 - 04:40 PM I can also remember Jimmy Carter telling his electorate that Americans were using too much oil and that they would have to start using less petrol. Maybe some people like to see him as weak. I think he had more bottle than anyone since. What's more, he has proved to be right. |
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Subject: RE: Obit: 155 Souls in India From: meself Date: 02 Dec 08 - 04:22 PM "Or he could have exercised the restraint of a Clinton who exercised so much restraint that Osama bin Laden was left at liberty to organise the attacks of 9/11." Yes, isn't it wonderful that W threw off all restraint and took care of Osama bin Laden once and for all! |
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Subject: RE: Obit: 155 Souls in India From: Stilly River Sage Date: 02 Dec 08 - 04:12 PM Teribus, I am enjoying the prospect of your abject misery for the next eight years. Tremendously. You'll be better off in spite of yourself, that's the only drawback. The rest of us suffered with your man and look at the way he trashed the place. It just isn't fair. SRS |
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Subject: RE: Obit: 155 Souls in India From: Teribus Date: 02 Dec 08 - 01:40 PM I enjoyed reading alanabit's post: "We are seeing the last days of the weakest president in living memory." Eh No alanabit I think that distinction still goes to Jimmy "Peanut" Carter - But I have a feeling that he will surpassed by the current President-Elect "When the attacks of September 11 took place, he reminded me of a cat caught in a car's headlights." Isn't that supposed to be "a deer caught in a car's headlights"?? "A strong president would have told the American people (and the world) that it is very difficult to track down terrorist cells." And the American people (and the world) would have called out in unison - No Shit Sherlock. "A strong president would have counselled patience and restraint." And completely missed the moment to galvanise the intelligence gather agencies of the world. He could of course have adopted the patient of Carter (As in the case of the Iranian Embassy Hostages). Or he could have exercised the restraint of a Clinton who exercised so much restraint that Osama bin Laden was left at liberty to organise the attacks of 9/11. "A strong president would have accepted the help of Arab nations to identify and apprehend the guilty parties." If memory serves me correctly alanabit there were no offers of help to do any such thing. The Taleban leader in Afghanistan did offer to try Osama bin Laden in Afghanistan provided that the US could prove his guilt in a Sharia Court. I have no doubt at all that that would have been, as you put it: ".....a opportunity to win the confidence of the Arab world" The only thing about that would be that the US would not have been able to pay the civil damages awarded in a US court after the US had failed to prove guilt in a Sharia court in Afghanistan and OBL sued your collective asses off in the "States" "Instead we got the "Send the Marines/You can run but you can't hide" Hollywood style jingoistic crap. And where has it got us?" Well last count it got us this: - Unprecedented co-operation internationally in the sharing of anti-terrorist intelligence, finance, drug smuggling, and law enforcement. - Abandonment of a very advanced WMD programme by Libya including a nuclear weapons programme that nobody knew about. - North Korea back into six party talks on resolving its nuclear weapons programme. - Exposure of Dr.A.Q.Khan's nuclear weapons proliferation network that nobody knew about - Exposure of Irans uranium enrichment facilities and capabilities, that nobody knew about, that put Iran's nuclear weapons programme under the international spotlight. - Caused Syria to withdraw from Lebanon, a country it had occupied for the best part of 27 years. - Rid Afghanistan of the most repressive, intolerant Government in the world. - Rid Iraq of a regime that over the 24 years from 1979 to 2003 had killed on average between 154 and 282 of its citizens per day. "Had one tenth of the resources, which have been squandered on war, been invested in alleviating the poverty, which gave a sewer for Al Kaida to fester in, the world would be have been a safer place by far." Now let's see $400 billion in aid thrown at Africa over the past twenty years - to what result?? Oh! As for that last bit - According to extensive studies undertaken by the universities of Vancouver, British Columbis and Uppsalla in Sweden, the world today is safer now than at any point since 1945 - go figure. |
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Subject: RE: Obit: 155 Souls in India From: CarolC Date: 02 Dec 08 - 10:43 AM The Kashmir dispute does involve the people of Kashmir. If they wanted to cause problems for both India and Pakistan (to get both countries out of their country), an excellent way to do it would be to piss of the largest possible number of highly armed people, and make India and Pakistan the fall guys. |
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Subject: RE: Obit: 155 Souls in India From: GUEST,CrazyEddie Date: 02 Dec 08 - 09:31 AM Chai Boy Hero |
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Subject: RE: Obit: 155 Souls in India From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 02 Dec 08 - 03:25 AM The Kashmir dispute is between Pakistan and India. There is no western or Israeli connection, yet they executed tourists and their young children and a rabbi.... |
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Subject: RE: Obit: 155 Souls in India From: CarolC Date: 02 Dec 08 - 02:56 AM This one appears to be about Kashmir, and it's likely that Pakistan is a strategic target of the attack along with India... The Telegraph http://www.slate.com/id/2205795/ |
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Subject: RE: Obit: 155 Souls in India From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 01 Dec 08 - 10:09 AM There are good reasons for alleviating poverty, but extreme Islam does not seem to need it. Many of their martyrs have been well to do professionals. The recent Glasgow London bombers were doctors. The reasons they cite are disputes in Kashmir, Palestine etc. I suspect that the slaughter of non believers is their main objective. The invasion of Afghanistan reduced the number and scale of their attacks. They mostly now operate from Pakistan. We do have their government on side, but they can not eradicate the extremists from their tribal lands |
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Subject: RE: Obit: 155 Souls in India From: alanabit Date: 01 Dec 08 - 09:45 AM We are seeing the last days of the weakest president in living memory. When the attacks of September 11 took place, he reminded me of a cat caught in a car's headlights. A strong president would have told the American people (and the world) that it is very difficult to track down terrorist cells. A strong president would have counselled patience and restraint. A strong president would have accepted the help of Arab nations to identify and apprehend the guilty parties. If ever there was a opportunity to win the confidence of the Arab world, that was it. Instead we got the "Send the Marines/You can run but you can't hide" Hollywood style jingoistic crap. And where has it got us? In fact the only way the situation could have been made worse was to go down the road of acting tough and making posturing declarations of revenge. Bush's band never considered anything else. Had one tenth of the resources, which have been squandered on war, been invested in alleviating the poverty, which gave a sewer for Al Kaida to fester in, the world would be have been a safer place by far. |
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Subject: RE: Obit: 155 Souls in India From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 01 Dec 08 - 03:30 AM McGrath, they is a long history of sectarian massacres in the subcontinent, but this is the very first that specifically targetted US and British citizens,and Jewish people. I think that sets it apart and suggest at the least an influence of Al Qaeda |
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Subject: RE: Obit: 155 Souls in India From: Stilly River Sage Date: 30 Nov 08 - 10:51 PM Where'd you get your degree in World History, Hubby? Correspondence school? Geez, Louise, but you pick and choose to make the story justify the acts of the current under-achiever in the White House, don't you? If that's where the terrorists are then that's where we need to go and get them. Terrorists are, under most circumstances, people who behave virulently because they are violently opposed to the politics and actions of the parties they attack. Sometimes these people would rather have stayed home and not taken this route if we'd have left them alone. But the U.S. is notorious for meddling in other nations' business. Some of these folks have tried telling us "MYOB" for years and it didn't take. Sometimes we need to ignore those requests, sometimes we need to pay attention. Bush doesn't know how to pay attention. Capiche "Ugly American?" Let's not forget though that the reason we are in Iraq is to finish what the UN started trying to do. You remember....there was a brutal dictator that just happened to be taking shots at our planes while trying to enforce a UN mandated no fly zone and during all this.. him and his two sons were...oh, I don't know....killing thousands of their own people. It just so happened that the terrorists came to us while we were there...so let's just stay and clean up the crap while we're there. The Brutal Dictator was hemmed in by Bush's Daddy and kept hemmed in by Clinton. Sometimes you neuter a feral animal and leave it in it's environment so that another feral animal doesn't move in and start more trouble all over again. Baby Bush thought he could do everyone better, but instead of getting rid of the feral animal, he opened a feral animal Pandora's Box. Baddies all over the place now. SRS |
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Subject: RE: Obit: 155 Souls in India From: catspaw49 Date: 30 Nov 08 - 10:09 PM "Let's not forget though that the reason we are in Iraq is to finish what the UN started trying to do." Aw c'mon Hub........Even YOU can't believe that crap! While that might be the true mission, the friggin' Shrub sold that invasion as an anti-terrorist thing and looking for those pesky and non-existent WMD's. Spaw |
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Subject: RE: Obit: 155 Souls in India From: Susu's Hubby Date: 30 Nov 08 - 09:59 PM "That'd be what? Maybe invading another country that had absolutely nothing to do with it? You may have noticed that hasn't worked so far with Iraq. Perhaps we might try New Guinea this time. Or better yet, how about Nepal? We could carpet-bomb the north face of Everest just for the hell of it. Maybe we should take another go at Grenada......Worked pretty well without monstrous casualties like Iraq and god knows they need a good ass-kickin'!!!" If that's where the terrorists are then that's where we need to go and get them. Let's not forget though that the reason we are in Iraq is to finish what the UN started trying to do. You remember....there was a brutal dictator that just happened to be taking shots at our planes while trying to enforce a UN mandated no fly zone and during all this.. him and his two sons were...oh, I don't know....killing thousands of their own people. It just so happened that the terrorists came to us while we were there...so let's just stay and clean up the crap while we're there. Oh and by the way, kat.....you said..... "It's sad and bad enough so many people have died, but do you have to use an obit thread for your "told ya so, but I hope not, but told ya so" agenda?" Biden brought it up a month and a half ago....so I guess I'm just repeating old news. Hubby |
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Subject: RE: Obit: 155 Souls in India From: Rapparee Date: 30 Nov 08 - 09:21 PM It would not matter who was President, there WILL be more attacks on the US "at home". No border can be made leakproof, and even the Secret Service admits that there is really nothing anyone can do to prevent someone who doesn't mind dying from succeeding in an attack. There has never been a guarantee of security. Nowhere is it written that life is without risk. You reduce the risk to what you consider an acceptable level and live with it. |
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Subject: RE: Obit: 155 Souls in India From: Ebbie Date: 30 Nov 08 - 07:58 PM Not only Bobert is disappointed, SH. |
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Subject: RE: Obit: 155 Souls in India From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 30 Nov 08 - 05:29 PM I can't see any reason to assume that this horrible business has anything whatsoever to do with who's in the White House or who isn't in the White House. I doubt very much if any of the people who organised this actually give a monkey's about that - still less the people who carried it out. This appears to be the latest, and the most dramatic (though not by a long way the bloodiest) episode in a long-running series of mass communal killigs in the Indian sub-continent, which have only the remotest connection with the whole Al Qaeda business. |
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Subject: RE: Obit: 155 Souls in India From: catspaw49 Date: 30 Nov 08 - 04:57 PM The problems of Dubya's residency were all a result of either the previous administration or the anticipation by the world's countries of the following one. This is truth just as the cause of all congressional problems has been the past two years of a Democratic congress and not the many preceding ones of the Republicans. The current economic mess is the fault of both Bill Clinton's balanced budget and budget surplus combined with the awful anticipation of having Obama in the White House.......never had anything to do with years of trickle down theory embraced by Wall Street or money pissed away in Iraq. Don't you know anything Sins???? My condolences as well to the many and their faimlies and friends.........not the first and sadly not the last. Spaw |
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Subject: RE: Obit: 155 Souls in India From: SINSULL Date: 30 Nov 08 - 10:30 AM I am confused. Isn't bush still president? Condolences to the families of the dead. A lot of innocents (read: non-military) lost their lives. |
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Subject: RE: Obit: 155 Souls in India From: catspaw49 Date: 29 Nov 08 - 10:37 PM Christ what an idiot! Do you carry around a card to refer to so you can remember how to breathe? "....then I hope he has the backbone to continue to do whatever it takes to make sure it doesn't happen again....." That'd be what? Maybe invading another country that had absolutely nothing to do with it? You may have noticed that hasn't worked so far with Iraq. Perhaps we might try New Guinea this time. Or better yet, how about Nepal? We could carpet-bomb the north face of Everest just for the hell of it. Maybe we should take another go at Grenada......Worked pretty well without monstrous casualties like Iraq and god knows they need a good ass-kickin'!!! Tell ya' what Susu's Sorrow, why don't you spend some time trying to remove your head from your ass 'cause your shit's backing up pretty bad on ya' and I fear you're going to explode. Spaw |
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Subject: RE: Obit: 155 Souls in India From: Richard Bridge Date: 29 Nov 08 - 09:50 PM Lots of questions here and not many answers yet. There is no clear explanation of who was exactly doing what and why. The relatively inexperienced Indian commandos seem to have been fairly ineffective, were they wisely deployed? The simplistic "Gee, let's get John Wayne to kill all the terrorists/muslims/foreigners/commies" doesn't seem to have worked too well in real life in general, the notable exceptions having been the SAS rescue of the Israeli embassy in the UK, and the Israeli raid on Entebbe. I am however somewhat curious about the fact that so much of US self-image seems to be drawn from the period after the US civil war when the US itself was a "failed state" - somewhat as Somalia is today (and the news there may be getting worse as the Ethiopian government seems to be withdrawing troops). The UK seems not recently to have had such an episode (unless you count the "gentlemen" period of Kent and Sussex, which is both longer ago and more detached from political upheaval). I suppose one might try to draw a similar-ish parallel for Italy and Sicily in that criminal enterprise expanded into areas of governmental incompetence, but I can't immediately call to mind anything similar in France, Germany, or Spain, and I imagine history is still out on the political changes in the island of Ireland from WWI to date. |
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Subject: RE: Obit: 155 Souls in India From: Bill D Date: 29 Nov 08 - 09:17 PM "...I hope he has the backbone to continue to do whatever it takes to make sure it doesn't happen again....." And just what might that be? We are not battling a country here. These are individuals, often from several countries, who just want to cause as much disruption as possible. Often they make no demands, claim no credit, and are difficult to fathom as to what they actually want or hope to achieve. They just want someone to suffer for imagined slights to some 'cause'. YOU tell Obama....and other world leaders.... how to track them, identify them, and/or stop them! They have killed a few of THIS batch, but you know there are others in various countries just waiting. They may even have little or no knowledge of the goals & plans of the others... Yes....there is a 'usually' common identifier in that they ARE Muslim, but they seem to be a minority.... I have said before that *I* consider that getting Muslim leaders & clerics all over the world to teach and condemn this sort of terror will be about the only way to make a dent in the problem..... we shall see. |
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Subject: RE: Obit: 155 Souls in India From: meself Date: 29 Nov 08 - 02:25 AM 'If that attack comes about just to "test the mettle of this guy" then the blood of innocent Americans will be on the hands of all that voted for this man.' Is it just me, or is there some kind of really weird thought-process going on here? |
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Subject: RE: Obit: 155 Souls in India From: Stilly River Sage Date: 29 Nov 08 - 12:32 AM I've wondered if a thread of this nature was going to open up, but I have spent the time listening to the news, not writing about it here. Now, we're staring at the fact of maybe another attack getting ready to happen in NYC. I pray that it doesn't happen. But if the fact that just because this country saw fit to elect an unproven man to the office of POTUS causes us to have another attack just to....let's see.... I see politics as usual and idiocy, your specialty, are alive and well. I wish a more level-headed and non-right-wing member had started this thread. They might have been less quick to take a swing at Obama just because they can, even if it is entirely unjustified. SRS |
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Subject: RE: Obit: 155 Souls in India From: katlaughing Date: 29 Nov 08 - 12:12 AM It's sad and bad enough so many people have died, but do you have to use an obit thread for your "told ya so, but I hope not, but told ya so" agenda? *sigh* Has your boy bush said anything today about it, or do you recognise what a lame May the families and friends of all involved find peace and solace in this terrible time for them. And, may all humankind realise we are all related, i.e. "Mitakuye Oyasin." |
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Subject: Obit: 155 Souls in India From: Susu's Hubby Date: 28 Nov 08 - 11:39 PM I've been checking for the last few days and have yet to see anything about this so I thought I'd be the first to bring it up. Besides, Bobert thinks we're all gone. I'd love to disappoint him. It seems as if Islamic militism is alive and well. Over the past few days, Islamic militants and Indian police and military commandos have been doing battle in and around the Taj Mahal Hotel in Mumbai, India. As of just a short bit ago, all terrorists have reportedly been killed. Among those dead, due to the terrorists, are approximately 155 Indians, Brits, Americans as well as various other nationalities. Evidently, according to the news reports, the militants were able to infiltrate the Indian culture and find jobs in Mumbai. They were educated enough to know what they were doing and know where they were going to do it. In a statement released Wednesday, Obama spokesman Brooke Anderson said. "President-Elect Obama strongly condemns today's terrorist attacks in Mumbai, and his thoughts and prayers are with the victims, their families, and the people of India." "These coordinated attacks on innocent civilians demonstrate the grave and urgent threat of terrorism. The United States must continue to strengthen our partnerships with India and nations around the world to root out and destroy terrorist networks,"she continued. " We stand with the people of India, whose democracy will prove far more resilient than the hateful ideology that led to these attacks." Now, we're staring at the fact of maybe another attack getting ready to happen in NYC. I pray that it doesn't happen. But if the fact that just because this country saw fit to elect an unproven man to the office of POTUS causes us to have another attack just to....let's see....how did Biden put it...."It will not be six months before the world tests Barack Obama like they did John Kennedy. The world is looking. We're about to elect a brilliant 47-year-old senator president of the United States of America. Remember I said it standing here if you don't remember anything else I said. Watch, we're gonna have an international crisis, a generated crisis, to test the mettle of this guy." If that attack comes about just to "test the mettle of this guy" then the blood of innocent Americans will be on the hands of all that voted for this man. Again, I pray that it doesn't happen. I hope Obama has what it takes to either stop it before it happens but if he doesn't, then I hope he has the backbone to continue to do whatever it takes to make sure it doesn't happen again..... For you and your families sake, for me and my family's sake and for the sake of our military, who at this very moment are doing that very thing all over the world. Hubby |
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