BS: The film: The Road

Subject: RE: BS: The film: The Road
From: Little Hawk
Date: 23 Sep 09 - 08:29 PM

That's for sure, Lox. The only movie I think I've ever seen that may have been better in some respects than the written work that inspired it was "The Man Who Would Be King", with Michael Caine and Sean Connery. I think it was even better than Kipling's short story (which was great)...but it was only a short story, after all, so it was possible in that case to make a feature length movie that could effectively deal with pretty much everything that was in the original text.

There have been some pretty crummy books written after a movie was made, just to capitalize further on the success of the film, but that's a horse of a different color. They are sort of like the "Cole's notes" version of the movie... ;-) Can't think of a specific example at the moment, but I know there have been plenty of them.

Subject: RE: BS: The film: The Road
From: Lox
Date: 23 Sep 09 - 07:27 PM

"The differences are few and slight. So why wouldn't you have a problem with the story that was used to make a film you disliked? The film had to come from somewhere. And it came from the mind of Cormack McCarthy."

Making a film inevitably involves a process of slash and burn as the screenwriter decides what to include and what to leave out.

It is posible to make a good film of a book, and for it to be a good film, but it will always be an interpretation of sorts.

The original book gives the reader the freedom to interpret it how their minds eye perceives it.

McCarthy's descriptive prose contains a thought provoking depth that could be interpreted and translated onto the screen in more than one way.

As I have said, it is perfectly possible and often the case that good film versions of books are made, however it is not possible for a feature film to encompasss more than the most basic tenets of any book.

The key points may have been well identified, but the book is more than just its key points. Its skeleton supports an infinitely more subtle organic substance.

Subject: RE: BS: The film: The Road
From: Little Hawk
Date: 23 Sep 09 - 07:00 PM

Yes, Wesley. And it naturally does make me wonder if Cormack McCarthy's written material and his general approach/philosophy/or whatever are not too much to my taste. However, I would still need to read his book to know for sure, wouldn't I? I'm curious enough about it that I will probably get around to reading his book "The Road" fairly soon. I figure the local library probably has it.

Getting back for a moment to "Pillars of the Earth"...that was by Ken Follet, and it's a wonderful book. It was recommended to me by a friend. Then I read his follow-up to it which is called "World Without End" and it was also superb. Not quite as good as "Pillars of the Earth", but still a great piece of writing.

Here's another "dark" movie that I thought was very good: "Monster" with Charlize Theron playing the part of Eileen Wournos, the serial killer. It was a tough movie to sit through, but a tremendously good one, in my opinion. It made you care for the characters, and if a movie can do that then it has succeeded.

Subject: RE: BS: The film: The Road
From: Wesley S
Date: 23 Sep 09 - 05:27 PM

"I did see a movie I didn't like too much, "No Country For Old Men", and it was based on one of his books, but that doesn't necessarily have much to do with him. It has to do with the people who wrote the script and directed the film, I would think. If I have a beef about the movie, it's with the Coen brothers, not with Cormack McCarthy."

But most people I know - and I'm one of them - will tell you that the movie was very faithful to the plot of the book. The differences are few and slight. So why wouldn't you have a problem with the story that was used to make a film you disliked? The film had to come from somewhere. And it came from the mind of Cormack McCarthy.

Subject: RE: BS: The film: The Road
From: Little Hawk
Date: 23 Sep 09 - 04:23 PM

Lox, I have NO opinion about Cormack McCarthy's writing at all, because I haven't read any of it yet. You misinterpreted my post as being directed personally toward him and his writing. It wasn't. My post was simply about that which normally motivates to read any book or see any movie....not the technical excellence of how it was done alone...but rather the general subject matter and meaning of it combined with the excellence of how it was done. You get the right combination of those factors and it's definitely something you want to see or read, correct? I doubt if I'm really different from most people in that respect. I look for both subject matter and quality.

I'm not in any way attacking Cormack McCarthy. I have no axe to grind regarding him whatsoever.

I did see a movie I didn't like too much, "No Country For Old Men", and it was based on one of his books, but that doesn't necessarily have much to do with him. It has to do with the people who wrote the script and directed the film, I would think. If I have a beef about the movie, it's with the Coen brothers, not with Cormack McCarthy.

I have not offered any criticism of his book at all here, therefore I have done nothing here that should arouse your wrath in that respect.

I understand that you are defending an author you have a high opinion of. Fine. I'm not attacking him, so there's nothing here for you to defend in that regard. You can defend the movie if you want to, in which case I'd say, "Fine. You like it. I don't. So our tastes differ."

As for "dark" material and so-called "feel-good" material, I had quite an appetite for darker material at a younger age, and I still find it somewhat intriguing (at least in movies...less so in literature). It makes for very good drama. If one wants a powerful drama one usually needs a strong confrontation between light and darkness, so that's what one expects to find in a drama. In the case of a movie, if it's acted and scripted well then, yes, I can definitely enjoy some dark material just fine. I loved the Coen brothers movie "Miller's Crossing", for example, and it was about ruthless gangsters in the prohibition era. I also liked "Natural Born Killers"...a very dark film, but it made some powerful and useful points about how our media and our culture exploit both violence and fame. In the case of books, though, I'd rather for the most part read things that inspire me than things that horrify me.

If something inspires me, then I start to feel better about life and my own part in it. Seems like a good thing to do to me. (?) I don't see why it would offend anyone or cause them to think I'm a pollyana (and I am not).

One area of deepest darkness that holds a lot of interest for me is the present political and financial system we live under. It's corrupt, and it's a lot scarier than any of those horror films people go to see. So if you think I'm sitting around gazing at flowers all day, contemplating my navel, and avoiding thinking about unpleasant realities, you are mistaken.

The possibility that the worldwide disaster alluded to indirectly in "The Road" (the book) was caused by an meteor or an asteriod is an interesting one. It would certainly be one quite credible explanation for something that killed off most of the people and animals on the planet, and it would be a reminder of how small we humans and our busy plans are in the greater scheme of things.

Subject: RE: BS: The film: The Road
From: Wesley S
Date: 23 Sep 09 - 03:46 PM

A friend of mine who read it says there was a passage about a bright light. He thinks it was the result of a meteor or asteroid strike.

Subject: RE: BS: The film: The Road
From: Alice
Date: 23 Sep 09 - 02:09 PM

When I read it, I considered that it was the Yellowstone supervolcano explosion that could have resulted in the ash covering everything. That seems more likely to have that result than a nuclear war.

Subject: RE: BS: The film: The Road
From: Wesley S
Date: 23 Sep 09 - 01:41 PM

C'mon Lox. How can any movie that features human cannibalism NOT be considered the "feel good" movie of the season? After all it's a family movie. Mom's an appetizer, Dad's for dinner and the kids are for dessert.

Subject: RE: BS: The film: The Road
From: Alice
Date: 23 Sep 09 - 01:31 PM

"technique" for enlightenment is an oxymoron ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: The film: The Road
From: Lox
Date: 23 Sep 09 - 01:29 PM

"Fine. But I much prefer excellent writing (and movie making) when it's also about something that I consider a truly worthwhile subject in its own right. In other words, I'm not all that interested in excellent technique just for its own sake when it comes to writing."

LH,

Sometimes you come out with some grossly offensive rubbish which you might do better to reflect on forst.

Cormac McArthy is one of America's greatest living authors, nay - one of americas greatest authors, nay - a world class author and novelist that stands shoulder to shoulder with some of the greates authors of all time.

His descriptive prose, subject matter, depth, storytelling etc etc etc etc are second to none.

For you to make some facile criticism about a book YOU HAVEN'T READ on the basis that you prefer books about happy things is so utterly crass I nearly (I stress nearly) find myself at a loss for words to convey how completely flabberghasted I am by your arrogance.

It compares to condemning MacBeth, Hamlet, Othello, The Merchant of Venice, Tess of the d'Urbervilles, I know why the caged bird sings, heart of darkness, Of Mice and Men, Great expectations etc etc etc etc for the same reasons.

McCarthy's work compares to all the above in skill and imagination.


If you are truly interested in philosophy etc then its about time you started reading some genuine literature and confronting some of the difficult issues that the great authors have confronted ...

... or do you only like happy/positive philosophy?

Subject: RE: BS: The film: The Road
From: Ebbie
Date: 23 Sep 09 - 01:23 PM

Interesting point, Shimrod.

When I reread it - soon - I also want to look for clues as to just *when* the disaster occurred. I assume the boy is no older than 9 or 10 so it couldn't have happened *too* long before.

There's a lot of food for thought in the book. I would read a sequel, for sure.

Subject: RE: BS: The film: The Road
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 23 Sep 09 - 01:16 PM

The thing that really fascinated me about the book was the unseen and unspecified catastrophe that had led to the horrible environment that the father and son found themselves in.

When I've spoken to other people, who've read the book, I've always asked them, "what do you think caused the disaster?" And everyone has said 'nuclear war'. But looking at the characteristics of the disaster described therein, it occurred to me that it might be something much more terrifying and outside of human control. I'm also left wondering if that is the real point of the book? We do all seem to be attached to the idea that the fate of the planet is in our hands, don't we? If you know anything about geological history, this is absurd!

Subject: RE: BS: The film: The Road
From: number 6
Date: 23 Sep 09 - 01:12 PM

all in jest LH :)

Subject: RE: BS: The film: The Road
From: Little Hawk
Date: 23 Sep 09 - 01:09 PM

Heh! Yeah, I thought someone might say that.

Subject: RE: BS: The film: The Road
From: number 6
Date: 23 Sep 09 - 01:04 PM

"I mostly read books on spiritual philosophy/development, techniques of attaining enlightenment,"

Hmmm ... I would never think of that as being catagorized as 'stuff'

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: The film: The Road
From: Little Hawk
Date: 23 Sep 09 - 12:59 PM

Okay. ;-) Maybe I'll try reading the book then, Ebbie...if I get time to. I mostly read books on spiritual philosophy/development, techniques of attaining enlightenment, and stuff along that line. Occasionally I read some historical fiction. "Pillars of the Earth" was one of the latter, and it's a wonderful book.

Subject: RE: BS: The film: The Road
From: Ebbie
Date: 23 Sep 09 - 12:41 PM

"...stylyish, sadistic, and depressing snuff film with no valid point in it whatsoever."

I assure you the book is nothing at all like that.

Subject: RE: BS: The film: The Road
From: Little Hawk
Date: 23 Sep 09 - 11:49 AM

I don't necessarily know if the subject of "The Road" is worthwhile or not, Alice. I was just making a general point about what would draw me to any book or any movie, that's all.

I did not feel that the subject of "No Country For Old Men" was worthwhile after having seen the movie....though I would say that in some respects it was quite a well-made film in the technical sense. I could have better done without watching it though...my overall feeling at the end was that I had wasted a couple of hours of my life watching a stylyish, sadistic, and depressing snuff film with no valid point in it whatsoever.

Subject: RE: BS: The film: The Road
From: Alice
Date: 23 Sep 09 - 10:15 AM

If the movie is just a shock exploitation of destruction (like Mad Max) instead of the hope/despair son/father dynamic, then that would be a loss.

Subject: RE: BS: The film: The Road
From: Alice
Date: 23 Sep 09 - 09:51 AM

Why do you think the subject is not worthwhile? It is greatly a focus on the interaction between the young son and his father. Maybe others who have also read it can weigh in on this, but I think that relationship was the central theme, and the destruction they walked through was the setting.

Subject: RE: BS: The film: The Road
From: Little Hawk
Date: 23 Sep 09 - 01:49 AM

Fine. But I much prefer excellent writing (and movie making) when it's also about something that I consider a truly worthwhile subject in its own right. In other words, I'm not all that interested in excellent technique just for its own sake when it comes to writing.

Subject: RE: BS: The film: The Road
From: Alice
Date: 22 Sep 09 - 11:30 PM

I recommend the book to anyone who appreciates excellent writing. I actually listened to it as a book on tape. The author is Cormac McCarthy. He skillfully creates a unique experience.

Alice

Subject: RE: BS: The film: The Road
From: Ebbie
Date: 22 Sep 09 - 10:29 PM

In the book, other than the matter of fact reference to a specific event - such as the kid's mother- it doesn't tell what happened or even when. One just absorbs it by osmosis.

Den, remember that the book has its zombie-like entities too.

Subject: RE: BS: The film: The Road
From: Little Hawk
Date: 22 Sep 09 - 03:43 PM

If you want to see zombie-like characters, I know a cheaper way. Just drive over to the local casino and observe the people at the slot machines until you've had enough...which shouldn't take too long. On no account play the machines! Odds are at least a hundred to one that you'll lose your money and run a very high risk of becoming a zombie yourself.

In the case of the book, is much time spent on the initial series of disasters that kill off most of the population?

Subject: RE: BS: The film: The Road
From: Den
Date: 22 Sep 09 - 02:02 PM

I should have said zombie like characters.

Subject: RE: BS: The film: The Road
From: Den
Date: 22 Sep 09 - 02:01 PM

I thought the book was great. I loved the dialogue between the little boy and his father. The little boy so full of hope and the Dad so full of despair. I'd hate to spoil it for anyone but I saw a clip of the movie recently and it bares no resemblance to the book at all. Another dumbed down Hollywood "love story" with zombies. I kid you not.

Subject: RE: BS: The film: The Road
From: Art Thieme
Date: 21 Sep 09 - 10:04 PM

Films based on literature are sometimes close enough to the book to be literature themselves--even when the tale is dark. I come away knowing I've read and seen a great job of craftsmanship that was thoroughly capable of making me better for having had the experience.

The films that offend the hell out of me are the ones that are based on things that people actually do believe is true. The Exorcist was that kind of film to me; manipulative in a rather heinous sort of way. As bad a mugging someone walking down the street.

Subject: RE: BS: The film: The Road
From: Ebbie
Date: 21 Sep 09 - 05:33 PM

I had been thinking that I would not go see it but I think I have changed my mind. First I want to re-read the book and see if it has the impact on me again that the first read did.

If the movie is done as skillfully as the book it will be a memorable one. From the reviews, btw, I understand that "the boy" does a really good job.

I have read one "spoiler" on the internet that, if it is true, will most definitely affect my opinion. I like fuzzy, warm feelings as well as the next person but I do like things kept coherent and logical. In other words, I like happy endings but some things just don't follow that format.

Subject: RE: BS: The film: The Road
From: Little Hawk
Date: 21 Sep 09 - 03:59 PM

LOL! I've already seen those on the Net, Wesley. I get the general idea. I am somewhat intrigued by such movies I will admit, and sometimes I do go to see them. Whether I find them worthwhile or not depends mostly on the actors and the script. With good enough actors and a good enough script it can make for an interesting couple of hours...and I do like Viggo Mortensen. So maybe...

Subject: RE: BS: The film: The Road
From: Wesley S
Date: 21 Sep 09 - 03:48 PM

In that case I would avoid this movie. I'd be willing to PM you some spoilers to show you just how dark it really is if you like.

Subject: RE: BS: The film: The Road
From: Little Hawk
Date: 21 Sep 09 - 12:52 PM

I'm not sure I want to subject myself to such depressing material, but maybe I'll go and see it. I haven't read the book.

I certainly didn't care much for "No Country for Old Men"...though I admit that it held my attention throughout. I just didn't like the basic premise that seemed to drive it, that's all. ;-)

Some people are fascinated by darkness. I'm not. I'm fascinated by its diametrical opposite.

Subject: RE: BS: The film: The Road
From: Wesley S
Date: 21 Sep 09 - 12:46 PM

I'm with Alice on this. Several passages in the book were very disturbing - but I guess I'll see it anyway.

Subject: RE: BS: The film: The Road
From: Art Thieme
Date: 20 Sep 09 - 10:13 PM

I don't want to forget the book. That would be the reason I'd choose not to see it. Films force their imagery on one. Possibly I will see it though----just like I saw 'The Lord Of The Rings' and 'The Grapes of Wrath'.

If it's not up to the book, I will be pissed. But that's life.

Art Thieme

Subject: RE: BS: The film: The Road
From: Alice
Date: 20 Sep 09 - 04:23 PM

I don't know if I'll see it, because although I thought it was a very good book, it was so dark it haunted me for quite awhile.

Subject: BS: The film: The Road
From: Ebbie
Date: 20 Sep 09 - 03:23 PM

This film has been seen on a limited basis and I have read several reviews. Are any of you planning to see it when it is fully released? Note that the USA release is November 25.

Here are the given Release dates for The Road (2009)

Country         Date
Italy                3 September 2009         (Venice Film Festival)
Canada                13 September 2009         (Toronto Film Festival)
Finland            October 2009         (Night Visions Film Festival)
South Korea    22 October 2009         
USA                25 November 2009         
Belgium         2 December 2009         
France                2 December 2009         
Russia                10 December 2009         
Finland         25 December 2009         
Norway                   January 2010         
UK                  8 January 2010         
Argentina         21 January 2010         
Australia         28 January 2010         
Netherlands         4 February 2010         
Brazil                5 February 2010         
New Zealand         18 March 2010         

More The Road Information