BS: Actual Liberal Media

Subject: RE: BS: Actual Liberal Media
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 29 Oct 10 - 09:30 AM

That writer keeps harping on "the liberal class". Over and Over and Over. As if there were such an entity.

There's a wide variety of people in the U.S., with a wide variety of outlooks--some advocating this, some that--many of which are mutually incompatible or at least with greatly varying priorities, but who get characterized (for want of a better word) as "liberal".

Come to think of it, the "liberal class", if it even can be said to exist, reminds me of the Tea Party--not a party despite that name, with widely differing objectives and no formal leadership or organization.

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: BS: Actual Liberal Media
From: ollaimh
Date: 28 Oct 10 - 06:02 PM

hedges is bang on with his analusis that the media are now an arm of the corporate elite, moreover he's right to adopt the molin thesis about capitalism now having evolved into inverted totalitarianism.

the corporate elite believe that they do not need democrary except in the most perfunctorty form. they also are indifferent to the financial collapse of governments that they have bankrupted by the decades of campaign to pay no taxes. thr tax burden has devolved on the middle class and the poor and can no loger pay the costs of massive spending. this has parrallels to the french revolution when the upper classesgot out of taxes and the poor revolted when they were reduced to starvation.

america seeem to be heading towards a tax provoked collapse which the corporate elit--a few of whom are openly(now) funding the tea party movement , think they can control. maybe they can but they are openning a pandoras box when they tempt actual revolution after their movement produces no solutions.

hedgesis bang on.liberals have sold out their traditional role and are the main opposition to new ideas commign that might actually restore democracy comming from such people as chomsky and nader.

in any event there will be more trouble for a decade at least before there are realmattempts to restore democratic institutions, all the while the corporate elites continoe to despoil the enviornment and provoke a major world food shortage within a decade.

Subject: RE: BS: Actual Liberal Media
From: Bobert
Date: 28 Oct 10 - 12:22 PM

And 70 to 80% for Reoubs or against Dems...

Subject: RE: BS: Actual Liberal Media
From: Donuel
Date: 28 Oct 10 - 10:18 AM

Correction

the latest estimate is over 5 billion dollars spent on this midterm...not 2

Subject: RE: BS: Actual Liberal Media
From: Bobert
Date: 28 Oct 10 - 08:46 AM

Yer correct, Ake, in that some folks do consider themselves to be liberal becuase they are tolerant of folks who ain't like them...

But the term "liberal" has been so bastardized and domonized that, ohter than a word that the right uses to get Redneck Nation lathered up for elections, the term really doesn't mean much of anything anymore...

I use the word "progressive"... The root is "progress" which is purdy hard for the right to demonize... And progressive isn't as easy for the right to turn into their usual "volvo driving, latte drinking, sandal wearing, elitist" crap that Daddy Bush started 30 years ago... And it also doesn't fall into the right/left crap so easily because there are times when "fiscal responsibility" or "personal responsibility" are things that progressives are for and the right is running from, like right now, fir instance...

So the right will continue beating thta dead horse "liberal" critter as long as it can but at some point in time the right is going to have to quit using that smokescreen and step out and say what policies they think will actually work... Cutting taxes is not an answer to every p[roblem facin' US... Might of fact, right now cutting taxes is fiscally irresponsible regardless of party affiliation...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Actual Liberal Media
From: Ron Davies
Date: 28 Oct 10 - 06:49 AM

"...true fascist nature of fully evolved capitalism..."

QED

Subject: RE: BS: Actual Liberal Media
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 27 Oct 10 - 04:00 PM

Politically they are actually the conservatives on the real issue.
See how they huddle together to protect capitalism and "democracy."

That is exactly my point about NPR et al.

Since when in America did respecting the constitutional right of free speech become "Liberal?"

Subject: RE: BS: Actual Liberal Media
From: akenaton
Date: 27 Oct 10 - 01:13 PM

Yes I see your point Jack, but from where I'm standing, too many people define themselves as liberal because of their stance on peripheral issues(gay marriage,immigration,gender politics etc etc)

Politically they are actually the conservatives on the real issue.
See how they huddle together to protect capitalism and "democracy."

I have your good lady down as one of my half dozen radicals on this forum, one does not always have to be screaming revolution to be a radical....it is a state of mind......Ake

Subject: RE: BS: Actual Liberal Media
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 27 Oct 10 - 12:58 PM

akenaton,

I like Chris Hedges. He makes some good points. But I don't particularly agree with is analysis. The point I was making by posting that is "Here is liberal media. Here is a liberal point of view. It looks nothing like NPR or The New York Times or even MSNBC. The people who are calling those outlets "liberal media" are defining liberal as anyone who does not agree with them.

That is not good for two reasons. It polarizes the debate. It soothes the conscience of those who would like to be liberal without putting in the effort. Well OK three reasons. Its bullshit.

Subject: RE: BS: Actual Liberal Media
From: akenaton
Date: 27 Oct 10 - 04:22 AM

"Sorry, Ake--your posting and the article starting off this thread are overheated rhetoric of the kind cited by Nader supporters.    Doesn't exactly help."

Ron...with the exception of the handful of radicals on this forum, you appear to be one of the very few who understand the nature of "democratic" political systems and how they work. As such, I find it unbelievable that you consistantly attempt to rationalise what is being done to us.

Its no use falling back on the old chestnut that "all other systems are so much worse", as we are going to experience a face of capitalism which has not been seen since the 1930's.....a completely divided society, deprivation of freedom, polarisation of wealth,
two very distinct classes.....the rich and the poor; and due to the fescist nature of the regime, no avenue of escape if you are born on the wrong side of the tracks.

Please dont tell me that what I write is "overheated rhetoric", as I find it shameful that someone who has obviously made a study of politics, defends a system which is about to implode, leaving uncovered the true fascist nature of fully evolved capitalism.

Subject: RE: BS: Actual Liberal Media
From: Donuel
Date: 26 Oct 10 - 03:49 PM

I am the liberal media TOO

Subject: RE: BS: Actual Liberal Media
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 26 Oct 10 - 02:15 PM

Working men.

Are you taking the piss or do you really have that much trouble reading?

Subject: RE: BS: Actual Liberal Media
From: Sawzaw
Date: 26 Oct 10 - 01:35 PM

"Lincoln made sure a lot of them didn't have to do it for free. "

I agree Jack but who are "them"?

Subject: RE: BS: Actual Liberal Media
From: Stringsinger
Date: 26 Oct 10 - 12:04 PM

I wouldn't call the IWW liberal.

The problem is also the reframing by "neo-liberals", an unfortunate term. They are OK with escalating wars (torture and killing of civilians).

The Party of "No" has defined "liberalism" and many have bought into their definition, perhaps maybe Hedges also.

The actual media is anything but liberal. It's corporate owned and controlled. The mistake as George Lakoff has pointed out is that many who are not GOP have accepted the GOP's frames and definitions. One today, in particular is "The Enthusiasm Gap". There are so many GOP sound bytes that have been embraced by well-meaning liberals that the dialogue has become polluted. NPR is part of the pollution.

Subject: RE: BS: Actual Liberal Media
From: Greg F.
Date: 26 Oct 10 - 09:13 AM

That's certainly ONE problem.

Subject: RE: BS: Actual Liberal Media
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 26 Oct 10 - 08:11 AM

The problem is that all the moderates have to go to the Democrats. Because the Nut jobs on in the Tea Party/Republican/Fox/"conservative talk radio alliance will not tolerate compromise, reason, or truth.

Subject: RE: BS: Actual Liberal Media
From: Ron Davies
Date: 26 Oct 10 - 07:29 AM

Sorry, Ake--your posting and the article starting off this thread are overheated rhetoric of the kind cited by Nader supporters.    Doesn't exactly help.


I wonder how many Obama supporters in the Senate and House the author and those who buy his argument will vote for.    His viewpoint is one of the reasons the Democrats are in bad trouble--though I think that at this point the argument might be made that it would be better for them to lose both the Senate and the House this November.    That way in 2012 Obama can possibly pull a 1948 Truman--running against a "do-nothing" Congress.   He sure won't be able to do this if either the Senate or House remains officially in Democratic hands--though any objective observer would have to admit that even if the Democrats retain a majority--officially-- in the Senate or House, nothing will be done in the next 2 years.    Difference is that if the Democrats keep a majority in either the Senate or House, the country at large will blame them in 2012 if the economy (esp unemployment rate) is not drastically improved.

Obviously this entire speculation mostly hinges on having a crystal ball for the unemployment rate in 2012.   The Fed now predicts about 9% at the end of 2011--not good enough to save the Democrats.

Subject: RE: BS: Actual Liberal Media
From: akenaton
Date: 26 Oct 10 - 03:49 AM

Bill... When capitalism fucks up, "liberal democracy" does not come and have a polite discussion with you about the issues, they come stick a metaphorical gun in your guts and take all your money, all your tax dollars and cut of the few social services that you have.

They are quite happy for you to talk.....as long as its about divisive policies or partisan politics.

Its called divide and rule.

Subject: RE: BS: Actual Liberal Media
From: michaelr
Date: 26 Oct 10 - 02:16 AM

This and this is the true liberal media. Truth be told.

Just skim the headlines and see how few of those stories you see reported in the mainstream media.

Subject: RE: BS: Actual Liberal Media
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 25 Oct 10 - 11:41 PM

>>I'm still waiting for a conservative to tell me what the republican party has ever done for the working man.<<

Lincoln made sure a lot of them didn't have to do it for free.

Subject: RE: BS: Actual Liberal Media
From: Rapparee
Date: 25 Oct 10 - 10:48 PM

Here's another liberal media. There's more liberal media here.

Subject: RE: BS: Actual Liberal Media
From: Bobert
Date: 25 Oct 10 - 08:04 PM

Don't hold yer breath waitin', Capt'n...

Subject: RE: BS: Actual Liberal Media
From: kendall
Date: 25 Oct 10 - 08:02 PM

"We have met the enemy, and he is US" (Pogo)

I'm still waiting for a conservative to tell me what the republican party has ever done for the working man.

Subject: RE: BS: Actual Liberal Media
From: Bobert
Date: 25 Oct 10 - 07:44 PM

We have two problems and both have to do with Boss Hog...

The first problem is that Boss Hog owns the media and...

...the second problem is that the legislative branch has, to a large extent, become a collection of corporate whores... 100% of the Repubs are whores and well over half the Dems are whores... That makes the whores in contr4ol big time...

Here is where the Tea Party probably has it right except they are a wing of the party that is 100% whores so the Tea Party is of no help here...

The real question that all believers in democracy are facing is how they can change these realities... This is a monster dilemma facing the country...

B~
b~

Subject: RE: BS: Actual Liberal Media
From: Rapparee
Date: 25 Oct 10 - 07:22 PM

Here's a site for a liberal newspaper.

Subject: RE: BS: Actual Liberal Media
From: Rapparee
Date: 25 Oct 10 - 07:14 PM

I'm shootin' at both sides, 'cause I'm sick of righteous prigs.

Subject: RE: BS: Actual Liberal Media
From: akenaton
Date: 25 Oct 10 - 07:13 PM

"It is the gutless and bankrupt liberal class, even more than the bizarre collection of moral and intellectual trolls now running for office, who are our most perfidious opponents."

What have I been saying for years?

Keep reading that article till you "get it"

Subject: RE: BS: Actual Liberal Media
From: Bill D
Date: 25 Oct 10 - 07:09 PM

...and change a few words and labels and it could be made an arch-conservative site. The strident tone and harsh rhetoric is similar.
I don't WANT to attack and fight with most of those I disagree with. I'd much rather have civilized debate and conduct business with what used to be called "The Loyal Opposition", but those days seem to be gone forever with so many extremists pushing special interests and trying to "take over".

Subject: RE: BS: Actual Liberal Media
From: Don Firth
Date: 25 Oct 10 - 06:18 PM

The thing that struck me about that article is that about all the author does is piss and moan, complaining that liberals are merely idle and ineffective.

Not from where I sit.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Actual Liberal Media
From: Donuel
Date: 25 Oct 10 - 05:49 PM

All truth dig is doin is blaming the people. It is deserved. It is so easy to sit back and watch the game or become hopelessly despondent after you get screwed over by some monopolistic opaque corporation or a non respondsive goverment department.

Have you ever said "what can you do?" or "you can't fight city hall"?

No one I know has a descretionary billion bucks to throw at people to do their bidding and issue shaping. You would have to confront the huge oligarchies all by yourself or with a lawyer, which I may add are everywhere but near impossible to find if you aren't a corporation.

Hey reality is that its like the wild west out here. Unbelievable crap is being done to small time citizens. The very idea of social justice has been turned into a propoganda war. Social Justice is being equated to Fascism Communism and Satanism everyday by Glen Beck and similar shills.

It seems like half of the high crimes and misdemeanors are done for greed and the other half is done just to be powerfully mean.
(the third half is done out of lazy ignorant negligence)

Subject: RE: BS: Actual Liberal Media
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 25 Oct 10 - 04:56 PM

I have to say that this election season has not put me in a good mood.

Subject: RE: BS: Actual Liberal Media
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 25 Oct 10 - 04:32 PM

No offense Art, but Screw progressivism! I'd settle for some middleism. Or just "stop the bleeding ism."

Those right wing selfish arseholes are STILL driving us into the ditch.

Subject: RE: BS: Actual Liberal Media
From: artbrooks
Date: 25 Oct 10 - 04:29 PM

Thanks, Jack. While I disagree entirely with the content of the article, I think that this demonstrates nicely the difference between liberalism and progressivism.

Subject: BS: Actual Liberal Media
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 25 Oct 10 - 03:55 PM

TruthDig

If you think NPR is liberal media, look at this. If you still think so, go back to Limbaugh and Fox.