BS: E.coli Outbreak

Subject: RE: BS: E.coli Outbreak
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 05 Jul 11 - 08:27 PM

Seems to be Egyptian fenugreek seeds now.

Subject: RE: BS: E.coli Outbreak
From: pdq
Date: 15 Jun 11 - 07:13 PM

"...200 people have succumbed in the last few days to an outbreak of norovirus.."

A quick check of the news suggests that about 200 people had symptoms of gastric distress, some went home early. There is no mention of anyone being critical at this pont.

There were 5000 guests and 1200 staff at the time.

Subject: RE: BS: E.coli Outbreak
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 15 Jun 11 - 06:47 PM

There are reports that 200 people have succumbed in the last few days to an outbreak of norovirus at Butlins in Bognor Regis, which was where I first sang in public, aged 4... (the song was que sera, sera, just to give you an idea of how many decades ago that was)

Kitty

Subject: RE: BS: E.coli Outbreak
From: Jim Martin
Date: 15 Jun 11 - 08:00 AM

Why can't we have just ONE worldwide organic certification standard so that everyone knows what they are buying?

Subject: RE: BS: E.coli Outbreak
From: bobad
Date: 14 Jun 11 - 05:57 PM

Here, educate yourselves, banish your ignorance: Organic Certification

Subject: RE: BS: E.coli Outbreak
From: pdq
Date: 14 Jun 11 - 03:19 PM

Actually, I have Apple that is inorganic. Yep, from the power plug right through to the CRT.

Subject: RE: BS: E.coli Outbreak
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 14 Jun 11 - 02:50 PM

I have inorganic vegetables in my kitchen table centerpiece. They are glass.

pdq is right. Unless defined by regulations, organic is not a helpful term.
Many pesticides and preservatives are organic too.

Subject: RE: BS: E.coli Outbreak
From: pdq
Date: 14 Jun 11 - 02:13 PM

BTW, I am trying to recall if I have ever seen an "inorganic" vegetable.

Perhaps some of the experts here can give an example.

Subject: RE: BS: E.coli Outbreak
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 14 Jun 11 - 02:09 PM

Human excrement is forbidden in farming in the U. S. and Canada. Raw manure of any kind is barred. Any manure must be composted and treated.

One reason I would never eat Japanese vegetables (before the added nuclear contamination).

Subject: RE: BS: E.coli Outbreak
From: autolycus
Date: 14 Jun 11 - 12:39 PM

I've been eating organic for around 18 years with nothing in the way of problems.


"After several frantic weeks of searching, German authorities said on Friday they had identified the contamination source as being vegetable sprouts from an organic farm in Lower Saxony, northern Germany."



Never base a decision on one source of information only. That's why serious books have considerable bibliographies.

Subject: RE: BS: E.coli Outbreak
From: pdq
Date: 14 Jun 11 - 12:27 PM

Although there was some press coverage about bean sprouts being cleared about a week ago, the stories dated June 12th state that an "organic" grower was definitely the source.

Yes, it was the German-grown bean sprouts, according to their official government report.

Using feces to grow your veggies may work, but I prefer to compost the numerous leaves that pile up in my yard each year. Add a little iron-rich fertiliser and some 20-20-20 (both come in bags from the local garder supply) and enjoy the results.

Subject: RE: BS: E.coli Outbreak
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Jun 11 - 11:30 AM

Bean Sprouts again seems to be in the cross hairs as the source of this ecoi outbreat.

Subject: RE: BS: E.coli Outbreak
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Jun 11 - 11:27 AM

38 years ago I knew a 20 year old Japanese American woman who died of e coli bean sprout infection.

Subject: RE: BS: E.coli Outbreak
From: harmonic miner
Date: 14 Jun 11 - 11:15 AM

People don't listen. The initial media reports referred to cucumbers so the kneejerkers latched on to that, and have ignored the updated information on the mostl likely source.

One of the things Organic farming does is to use faeces instead of artificial fertilisers. If done correctly that's fine, But eating organic certainly wouldn't help.

Subject: RE: BS: E.coli Outbreak
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 14 Jun 11 - 09:08 AM

from the link just above:

"After several frantic weeks of searching, German authorities said on Friday they had identified the contamination source as being vegetable sprouts from an organic farm in Lower Saxony, northern Germany."

Don't waste your money (or worse) on so-called organic food.

Subject: RE: BS: E.coli Outbreak
From: Jim Martin
Date: 14 Jun 11 - 08:21 AM

36 now dead, 3,228 sick:

http://www.expatica.com/de/news/local_news/killer-bacteria-toll-rises-to-36_156215.html

Subject: RE: BS: E.coli Outbreak
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 09 Jun 11 - 02:46 PM

My point exactly.

Subject: RE: BS: E.coli Outbreak
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 09 Jun 11 - 02:36 PM

No, Peter, no indication. Sheer speculation by an overactive imagination.

Subject: RE: BS: E.coli Outbreak
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 09 Jun 11 - 12:58 PM

I have no doubt there's a lot of work being done in recombinant DNA and genetic engineering. I am not in any way convinced the present stain of e-coli was therefore an engineered and purposely released one and that is what I was asking about: is there any serious and solid indication that this is the case?

Subject: RE: BS: E.coli Outbreak
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 09 Jun 11 - 12:31 PM

Here is another National Cancer Institute study, about construction of DNA molecules.
Recombineering: a homologous recombination-based method of genetic engineering. Sharan et al., Nat, Protoc. 2009;4(2):206023.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19180090

(PubMed.gov is an online series of reports from the U.S. National Institute of Health).

Subject: RE: BS: E.coli Outbreak
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 09 Jun 11 - 12:11 PM

Peter, there are a number of such experiments in progress, at universities, government laboratories, and in industry.
E. coli is a valuable subject for studies of genome and gene transfer because of its simplicity. These properties are already under study as advanced treatments in both disease and crop modification.
Here is one study abstract, of many in the literature and noted on the net:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18265391

E. coli genome manipulation by P1 transduction, Thomason, Costantino and Court, National Cancer Institute at Frederick [Maryland, U.S.]. 2007. Pub. in Curr. Protoc. Mol. Biology, 2007, July; Chapter 1:Unit 1.17; John Wiley & Sons Inc., publisher.

"This unit describes the procedure used to move portions of the E. coli genome from one genetic variant to another." ......

This article diagrams the transfer of E. coli gene material to Salmonella:
p1 transduction- http://www.automation-drive.com/p1-transduction.

It is the National Laboratory studies that are subject of the speculation that the new strain in Germany is the result of their experiments gone wrong. Complete nonsense!

Subject: RE: BS: E.coli Outbreak
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 09 Jun 11 - 09:03 AM

It was obvious from the word go it was all in revenge for the death of Osama Bin Laden wasn't it?

Oh, wait. It wasn't. Are there any credible sources of information that would confirm an engineered strain of E-coli?

Subject: RE: BS: E.coli Outbreak
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 09 Jun 11 - 06:16 AM

I am just a physicist, but I know that this is wrong.
"In order for them to acquire this resistance, they must be repeatedly exposed to antibiotics in order to provide the "mutation pressure" that nudges them toward complete drug immunity."

Genes can be transferred between bacteria in plasmids. They could have acquired the resistance that way.

Subject: RE: BS: E.coli Outbreak
From: autolycus
Date: 09 Jun 11 - 06:07 AM

Would any of you scientists care to comment on this thought, that the e coli was maybe created in a lab.

http://www.naturalnews.com/032622_ecoli_bioengineering.html

Subject: RE: BS: E.coli Outbreak
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 08 Jun 11 - 04:50 PM

Hey Joe Offer, I opened 'Mudcat' to find a post, which I partly agree with...BUT I did NOT post that post...I also saw one in the 'BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??'(From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 08 Jun 11 - 03:32 PM) in which I wholeheartedly agree, but I did not author that post. You can leave it up or not, but if you leave it up, leave this one as well.
To whomever is using 'Guest from Sanity' to post your thoughts on, have the guts to use your own monicker.

Joe, if you remove the posts, please archive them, in case the situation arises, in which it may be need shown, that they are NOT from me!

Thank you.

GfS

P.S. I DO really agree with the 'Tea Party' (Date: 08 Jun 11 - 03:32 PM) post, though!

Subject: RE: BS: E.coli Outbreak
From: Donuel
Date: 08 Jun 11 - 03:31 PM

They guy who said that is the same guy who claimed that an extraordinary number of bio warfare scientists and viral researchers have been dieing under suspicious circumstances.

He may be partly right.

The main suspicion of this outbreak is that it appeared to have radiated from 3 different locations simultaneously. There are many other explainations for that other than a terrorist attack.

Still there is no known origin of this strain and no particular food respondsible.

Subject: RE: BS: E.coli Outbreak
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 08 Jun 11 - 03:22 PM

Hi. I only have one report, last night, that the e-coli strain, is a weaponized,strain, highly sophisticated. I do not have a second source, as of yet...when I do, I'll post the link.

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: E.coli Outbreak
From: Donuel
Date: 08 Jun 11 - 01:38 PM

http://www.foodqualitynews.com/Food-Alerts/EU-ag-ministers-hold-emergency-E.coli-summit-as-outbreak-source-remains-mystery/?c=TJ

Subject: RE: BS: E.coli Outbreak
From: Donuel
Date: 08 Jun 11 - 01:22 PM

You are right. The GE stuff happened decades ago. The recombinate research today is more relevant by far.


Here we are discussing the food crises or the bio warfare possibilities again.

All our: Food, banking, global warming, terrorism, revenue, CRISES today have one underlieing cause.

The fundamental competative profit motive that underscores all pursuits as a war. A war between nations, companies, departments, individuals and even within the self.

these wars strangle progress of civilzations and individuals alike.
Think of the way genetic science as a business has patented everyone's DNA to the point where no one can do research.

Q, you are smart enough to know a new paradigm is needed. If you can get one started begining in your own career or discipline it would be a great help.

It is up to us, each of us.

Subject: RE: BS: E.coli Outbreak
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 07 Jun 11 - 06:07 PM

Any connection between any GE experiments and the E. coli strain in Germany is pure speculation.

The bacterium is most useful in cloning experiments, used in recombinant experiments, it is a choice because of its small genome size, the first to be sequenced. It has long been used in the biotechnology industry.
Other useful properties are its fast growth rate and nutrient properties. In humans, it provides vitamin K and B12.

One particular strain was infectious- now two are known. The source, possible mutation, combination with other bacteria, etc., are some of the avenues of research that must be pursued.

Subject: RE: BS: E.coli Outbreak
From: Donuel
Date: 07 Jun 11 - 04:48 PM

The problem is damn well a NOrth American problem.

I am shocked at the lack of knowledge by people who think themsleves well informed.

Subject: RE: BS: E.coli Outbreak
From: Donuel
Date: 07 Jun 11 - 04:39 PM

BTW when General Electric mutated E Coli so that cows could digest sawdust, the experiemnts often concluded with the cow blowing up in a disgusting explosion.

I contend that GE released many mutant strains into the envoirment and are respondsible for exacerrbating food poisoning deaths worldwide.

Subject: RE: BS: E.coli Outbreak
From: Donuel
Date: 07 Jun 11 - 04:19 PM

SoylentGreen

Subject: RE: BS: E.coli Outbreak
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 07 Jun 11 - 04:07 PM

SINSULL- contribute to population decrease?

Until the problem becomes a North American one, I will continue with a varied diet. ("What, me worry?")

Subject: RE: BS: E.coli Outbreak
From: autolycus
Date: 07 Jun 11 - 02:12 PM

i "If I can't eat meat and can't be a vegetarian what are my options?"

You can be a vegetarian.

Subject: RE: BS: E.coli Outbreak
From: Donuel
Date: 07 Jun 11 - 12:32 PM

Sinsull, the biggest event of our lives not being discussed is less than 5 years away. Worrying about what to eat will give way to, what if anything is there to eat.

hint; its not an asteroid.

Subject: RE: BS: E.coli Outbreak
From: Donuel
Date: 07 Jun 11 - 12:28 PM

Guess who the first corporation was that created hundreds of new mutant e coli in hopes of finding one that would digest sawdust in a cows ruminating stomach in order ro minimize feed costs?


They bring good things to life


formerlly owned NBC

Yep it was General Electric.


But it was 27 years ago.

Subject: RE: BS: E.coli Outbreak
From: SINSULL
Date: 07 Jun 11 - 08:22 AM

If I can't eat meat and can't be a vegetarian what are my options?

Subject: RE: BS: E.coli Outbreak
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 07 Jun 11 - 06:35 AM

"...it wasn't the cukes and it wasn't the sprouts" - the rhyme in the next line is perhaps a bit too obvious...

Subject: RE: BS: E.coli Outbreak
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 07 Jun 11 - 02:44 AM

Because if it later emerged that they suspected some stuff and kept quiet, and as a result people consumed the stuff and died, they would be in the poo.

Subject: RE: BS: E.coli Outbreak
From: Mrrzy
Date: 06 Jun 11 - 09:42 PM

Right, it wasn't the cukes and it wasn't the sprouts. Sounds like a folk song to meeee...

But why do they keep announcing that it IS something? Why not wait till they know?

Subject: RE: BS: E.coli Outbreak
From: autolycus
Date: 06 Jun 11 - 05:18 PM

The latest from BBC News is that the source of the outbreak is currently unknown.

Subject: RE: BS: E.coli Outbreak
From: autolycus
Date: 06 Jun 11 - 03:44 PM

I've been eating salads for years and I-I-I-I-I eueueueueueuechchch.

No actually, I've recently come out of a difficult time health wise and part of the new regime is plenty of raw food.

Soo far so good.

Subject: RE: BS: E.coli Outbreak
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 06 Jun 11 - 02:56 PM

The falsely accused growers should be compensated. I understand Spain is bringing an action against the German government.

Subject: RE: BS: E.coli Outbreak
From: bobad
Date: 06 Jun 11 - 01:52 PM

If there is any suspicion whatsoever about a product in such circumstances, the prudent action, from a public health standpoint is to inform the public of it, especially so given the possible consequences of acquiring this pathogen.

Subject: RE: BS: E.coli Outbreak
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 06 Jun 11 - 01:38 PM

The event is plagued by erroneous announcements based on preliminary information. The different levels of authority, and a careless press, only spread fear and cause the destruction of food-growers' incomes.

Look up the case of "Typhoid Mary," who eventually had to be isolated for life. I am not knowledgeable on intestinal diseases, but such a person cannot be ruled out.
Other healthy carriers of a pathogen have been found.

Subject: RE: BS: E.coli Outbreak
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 06 Jun 11 - 12:03 PM

Fram that grew suspect beansprouts tests e-coli negative

Subject: RE: BS: E.coli Outbreak
From: Arnie
Date: 06 Jun 11 - 11:56 AM

Latest news from Germany is that is isn't the bean sprouts after all!! No doubt a few hundred ton of bean sprouts have already been destroyed before they were declared innocent. So, the real culprit is still unknown and no doubt some other foodstuff or restaurant will soon be in the frame. Pity the food producers and vendors in N.Germany at the moment - they just don't know when or if they will be next in the firing line.

Subject: RE: BS: E.coli Outbreak
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 06 Jun 11 - 10:35 AM

It seems unlikely that you could have a symptomless human carrier of this strain.
My money is still on animal poop.

Subject: RE: BS: E.coli Outbreak
From: GUEST,Patsy
Date: 06 Jun 11 - 10:22 AM

A plate of beans on toast suddenly seems much more inviting.

Subject: RE: BS: E.coli Outbreak
From: SINSULL
Date: 06 Jun 11 - 09:26 AM

The sprouts were grown in warm water barrels, a great environment for e-coli. No fertilizer was used but workers with poor sanitary habits could have contaminated the crop.
So...no sprouts, cucumbers, lettuce, tomatoes. No cruel eggs or chickens. No veal or lamb. No ground beef for gross reasons.
Man does not live by bread alone???? Maybe...

Subject: RE: BS: E.coli Outbreak
From: Charley Noble
Date: 06 Jun 11 - 09:15 AM

So it's unlikely that the worker at the organic farm in Northern Germany, who is infected with this bacteria, deliberately pooped on the bean sprout production line.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: E.coli Outbreak
From: bobad
Date: 05 Jun 11 - 08:52 PM

This from Health canada:

"Sprouts and Foodborne Illnesses

Worldwide, at least 37 outbreaks of foodborne illnesses have been linked to sprouts between 1973 and 2005. In most instances, the illnesses were caused by either Escherichia coli (E. coli) O157:H7 or Salmonella bacteria.

Between 1996 and 2005, raw alfalfa sprouts and mung bean sprouts contaminated with Salmonella have been linked to a number of outbreaks in British Columbia, Quebec, Ontario, Saskatchewan and Alberta, as well as in the United States.

The largest outbreak linked to sprouts took place in Japan in 1996, when 6,000 people got sick and 17 died after eating radish sprouts contaminated with E. coli O157:H7. This type of bacteria was also implicated in outbreaks involving sprouted seeds in several U.S. states between 1997 and 2004.

How Sprouts Can Become Contaminated

Scientists believe that the most likely source of contamination is the seeds that are used to grow the sprouts. Seeds may become contaminated by animal manure in the field or during storage, and the conditions required to grow sprouts (e.g, warmth and humidity) are ideal for the rapid growth of bacteria. Poor hygienic practices in the production of sprouts have also caused some sprout-related outbreaks of foodborne illness in the past.

Most sprouts, including alfalfa sprouts, can only be eaten raw. This means they are not exposed to temperatures high enough to kill bacteria that may be present. Some sprouts, such as mung bean sprouts, can also be eaten cooked. To ensure that bacteria are destroyed, these sprouts should be cooked thoroughly. A recent outbreak of salmonellosis in Ontario in 2005 was linked to the consumption of raw and lightly-cooked mung bean sprouts, such as those found in some stir-fry dishes."

Subject: RE: BS: E.coli Outbreak
From: Jeri
Date: 05 Jun 11 - 08:49 PM

E. coli is in poop, with this nastier strain being in unique poop. Poop is used as fertilizer. It's killed by cooking, but can re-contaminate ("cross-contamination") cooked foods by sucky food handling practices. Most people don't cook bean sprouts used in salads, therefore, there's a much greater chance of getting sick from eating sprouts.

Despite them saying sprouts were the culprit, contaminated fertilizer may have been used on other foods.

If you're eating in a place with iffy sanitation & food safety practices, peel, cook, or don't eat the food.

Subject: RE: BS: E.coli Outbreak
From: Charley Noble
Date: 05 Jun 11 - 08:32 PM

Nasty bean sprouts grown in Germany. Well, international apologies are certainly in order. Think of the tons of food that were mistakenly dumped and the farming families who lost their livelihood.

It does puzzle me how a bean sprout production line could become infected by this nasty little bugger.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: E.coli Outbreak
From: GUEST,Paul Burke
Date: 05 Jun 11 - 03:48 PM

When I called in the stupormarket yesterday, they were selling cucumbers at a quarter the normal price, and still no takers. It's a real pity I don;t like them, organic or otherwise.

Subject: RE: BS: E.coli Outbreak
From: Rusty Dobro
Date: 05 Jun 11 - 03:35 PM

So it's German bean sprouts, at least until their government changes its mind again.

May we now expect a fulsome apology to the Spanish cucumber growers, with equally generous compensation?

Subject: RE: BS: E.coli Outbreak
From: bobad
Date: 05 Jun 11 - 02:49 PM

"German agricultural authorities identified locally grown beansprouts as the likely cause of an E. coli outbreak that has killed 22 people and sickened hundreds in Europe.

The Lower Saxony agriculture ministry was sending an alert on Sunday warning people to stop eating the sprouts, which are often used in mixed salads, Gert Hahne, a ministry spokesman, said.

"Bean sprouts have been identified as the product that likely caused the outbreak," Hahne said, adding that "many restaurants that suffered from an E.coli outbreak had those sprouts delivered."

Hahne said the sprouts were grown on a farm in Lower Saxony in northern Germany. He did not elaborate but planned a news conference later on Sunday.

Hahne said while official test results have not yet conclusively shown that the Lower Saxony-grown sprouts were to blame, "all indications speak to them being" the cause.

He also said authorities would still keep their warning against eating tomatoes, cucumbers or lettuce in place for now."

Al Jazeera

Subject: RE: BS: E.coli Outbreak
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 04 Jun 11 - 10:29 AM

Most reports have been saying for days cucumber didn't carry the bug and right now the likelihood of meat being the source of the outbreak is considered a far more likely, according to a statement of a WHO official to an Italian newspaper.

Subject: RE: BS: E.coli Outbreak
From: GUEST,999
Date: 03 Jun 11 - 09:26 PM

"but there's a certain relish in, after all these years,"

Kevin, that was baaad.

Subject: RE: BS: E.coli Outbreak
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 03 Jun 11 - 03:58 PM

Only in North Germany.

Subject: RE: BS: E.coli Outbreak
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 03 Jun 11 - 03:56 PM

It's scary and it's a shame - but there's a certain relish in, after all these years, being able to decline salads because they are potentially unhealthy.

Subject: RE: BS: E.coli Outbreak
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 03 Jun 11 - 03:19 PM

All the cases have been infected in the North of Germany.
E coli are found in the gut but this is a deadly strain that invades tissue and produces toxin, and is resistant to antibiotics.

Subject: RE: BS: E.coli Outbreak
From: Jim Martin
Date: 03 Jun 11 - 07:38 AM

If this is getting into the actual cells of plants, then it does give some credence to the allegation that slurry could be the/a cause.

Subject: RE: BS: E.coli Outbreak
From: GUEST,Patsy
Date: 03 Jun 11 - 07:28 AM

I can't say that I am particularly mad about the taste of cucumbers either so no danger there. Home grown vegetables has to be the best way. But for those who have to buy for a family it is worrying.

Subject: RE: BS: E.coli Outbreak
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 03 Jun 11 - 05:13 AM

We do grow our own lettuces, cress, radishes and tomatoes. And we both like loads of vegetables with our meals, which are boiled and therefore safe. I read today in the paper that this mutant E coli gets into the actual cells of the plant, so washing is ineffective. I've never actually liked cucumbers! I caught Giardia in Ghana, horrid bug. It took two courses of very strong antibiotics to get rid of it, and all because I cleaned my teeth ONCE from the tap! (daft thing to do!) E coli has been used in laboratories for decades to act as a marker, I remember in the 1970's my then boyfriend, a molecular biologist, showing me how this was done and explaining about the uses. But there are several strains. This one is apparently new, a mutant, and resistant to antibiotics. The Russians (who've now banned all EU produce) say we're too gung ho with antibiotics. They're probably right.

Subject: RE: BS: E.coli Outbreak
From: GUEST,Patsy
Date: 03 Jun 11 - 03:49 AM

From what I have read about it so far I would be inclined to avoid any salad vegetable that has a high water content like cucumber, melon, bean sprouts and cress particularly the ones labelled as organic but not locally grown. It is going to be another blow for organic fruit and veg growers unfortunately though.

Subject: RE: BS: E.coli Outbreak
From: Rapparee
Date: 02 Jun 11 - 11:41 PM

E. coli live in your very own gut. You cannot get away from bacteria, but you CAN and should use good sense: wash food before preparing it and especially if it is to be eaten raw, cook food well, don't depend upon the manufacturer/grower when they say stuff is "pre-washed in pure spring water" (ever hear of giardia?), and so on. If you do come down with something know when to see a physician.

One thing you can do if you do come down with it is to keep your electrolytes up. In the US we have things like Pedilyte (for children, but works for adults) and Gatorade (in various puke-inducing flavors) which can help. But if it's serious, see a doctor!

Subject: RE: BS: E.coli Outbreak
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 02 Jun 11 - 10:58 PM

" One is left wondering which foods (if any!) to avoid buying. "

You could probably avoid salad for the rest of your life, eating only cooked vegetables, and your health would be fine.

I avoid organic food. I think it's dirty.

Subject: RE: BS: E.coli Outbreak
From: Rapparee
Date: 02 Jun 11 - 10:12 PM

The whole world is quivering with unhappy souls
The French blame the Germans, the Germans blame the Poles,
Italians blame Serbians, the Spanish blame the Dutch,
And nobody knows anything very much.

                     --with apologies to Sheldon Harnick

Subject: RE: BS: E.coli Outbreak
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 02 Jun 11 - 05:48 PM

For the cucumbers, Eliza, grow your own. Here's one to try: Crystal Apple. It's a round one.

Subject: RE: BS: E.coli Outbreak
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 02 Jun 11 - 05:30 PM

Thank you Jon and akenaton for clarifying that. It would seem that it's a total mystery. One is left wondering which foods (if any!) to avoid buying.

Subject: RE: BS: E.coli Outbreak
From: akenaton
Date: 02 Jun 11 - 05:18 PM

That claim has been withdrawn Eliza,the medical people have as yet no idea on the source of the infection, it could be contaminated food, water or anything taken internally.
Apparently young women are worst affected and cases are turning up in many European countries.....and the three I mentioned in the US.

Experts on BBC a few minutes ago, say that this is an unknown strain of E.coli and VERY virulent

Subject: RE: BS: E.coli Outbreak
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 02 Jun 11 - 05:15 PM

The main outbreak has been in Germany, Eliza but the source of the contaminated cucumbers was originally reported by Germany as coming from Spain. The latest reports latest reports I've read say the source of the cucumbers is unknown.

Coming back to an earlier post of yours, I don't know whether or not the cucumbers would have been grown under glass. In the UK for home growing anyway, cucumbers are grown under glass and outside after the risk of frost has past. Some varieties are better suited to outside than others.

Subject: RE: BS: E.coli Outbreak
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 02 Jun 11 - 05:06 PM

I understood that many of the contaminated cucumbers were from Germany Keith.

Subject: RE: BS: E.coli Outbreak
From: akenaton
Date: 02 Jun 11 - 03:14 PM

Is terrorism out of the question? Three cases just reported in USA.

Subject: RE: BS: E.coli Outbreak
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 02 Jun 11 - 03:01 PM

People are avoiding other produce as well.
(I agree, I also regard 'cukes'as inedible.)

Subject: RE: BS: E.coli Outbreak
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 02 Jun 11 - 02:21 PM

I've never really regarded cucumbers as edible.

Subject: RE: BS: E.coli Outbreak
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 02 Jun 11 - 01:07 PM

A while back Mexican produce was blaimed for an outbreak that later was traced to a center in the U.S.
Jumping to a conclusion hurt the Mexican farmers just like the false attribution to Spain in this case is causing massive damage to farmers and sellers.
There is a report that the Spanish producers are considering filing suit against the German government. I hope they can do so.

Subject: RE: BS: E.coli Outbreak
From: Mrrzy
Date: 02 Jun 11 - 12:15 PM

Mutants! Mutants everywhere!

And the poor Spanish farmers...

Subject: RE: BS: E.coli Outbreak
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 02 Jun 11 - 08:05 AM

The previous virulent strain was 0157.
E. coli O157:H7 serotypes are closely related, descended from a common ancestor, divergent in plasmid content more than chromosomal content, and are no more related to other shiga toxin producing strains than any other randomly chosen E. coli serotype. E. coli O55:H7 and E. coli O157:H7 are most closely related and diverged from a common pathogenic ancestor that possessed the ability to form attaching and effacing lesions. E. coli O157:H7 serotypes apparently arose as a result of horizontal gene transfer of virulence factors.[9]

The new strain is 0104:H4

Subject: RE: BS: E.coli Outbreak
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 02 Jun 11 - 07:57 AM

Virulent and resistant E Coli has been around for years now.
In southern Europe maybe glasshouses are not needed?

Subject: RE: BS: E.coli Outbreak
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 02 Jun 11 - 07:51 AM

Jim, aren't cucumbers grown in glasshouses? They aren't sprayed out in the field. Same goes for tomatoes. Maybe they're watered with soluble plant feed made from slurry? Presumably this has always been the case, so I wonder why this dangerous form of E Coli has suddenly appeared?

Subject: BS: E.coli Outbreak
From: Jim Martin
Date: 02 Jun 11 - 07:39 AM

Looks like this may have been caused by slurry:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-13600144