BS: Obama offers up Social Security

Subject: RE: BS: Obama offers up Social Security
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 21 Jul 11 - 04:01 AM

Well after giving his banker buddies $800,000,000,000, what else should he do?....something for you??..even if it was YOUR own money????

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Obama offers up Social Security
From: michaelr
Date: 21 Jul 11 - 01:28 AM

Yay, Dennis! One of the few remaining politicians with an actual conscience. Too bad he couldn't get elected President... but then, he's probably more useful in the House, anyway.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama offers up Social Security
From: Little Hawk
Date: 21 Jul 11 - 01:16 AM

Hey, guys, I have nothing to say about it myself (not feeling knowledgeable enough about it to offer comment at this point)...but here's what Dennis Kucinich has to say about it in his latest email:

RAW DEAL

"A Big Deal."

That's what the White House has been fighting for the past few weeks in negotiations over raising the debt ceiling. It was a search for a "compromise."

And so yesterday, President Obama applauded the gang of six "compromise" based on, as he explains, "shared sacrifice and everybody ... giving up something."

The only thing being compromised is the Administration's values. This deal cuts Social Security and threatens Medicare and Medicaid, selling out those who need help the most, America's children, poor and elderly - all while taxes are being cut.

Our message is simple: cutting Social Security which has nothing to do with the debt ceiling is not a "big deal" we can accept, it is a bad deal we must reject. Please sign my petition now, and forward it to 10 of your friends:

http://kucinich.us/social-security

Do not let them disingenuously fold the issue of Social Security - which is solvent through 2036 - into raising the debt limit. Do not let them move the ball so far down the field that a "compromise" has become a politically friendly term for caving in on the very cornerstone of our Party and - more importantly - on well established principles of economic and social justice in America.

The more details that emerge, the worse the picture gets. While our unemployment remains perilously high and families are suffering, instead of a roadmap for recovery we are receiving directions towards another depression. Any "deal" that ignores the massive economic challenges of this country and balances the budget on the backs of children, seniors and the poor is not moral. In a lifetime, will our party have journeyed from the New Deal to the Raw Deal?

I hope you can help me through insisting that Congress find a more fair and just compromise. It would be helpful if you sign the petition and circulate it to your contacts.

With respect,

Dennis

Subject: RE: BS: Obama offers up Social Security
From: Songwronger
Date: 20 Jul 11 - 10:54 PM

An interesting article on this--

How Your Social Security Money Was Stolen – Where Did the $2.5 Trillion Surplus Go?

President Obama is the fifth president to participate in the great Social Security scam, but he has the dubious distinction of being the president, on whose watch, the Social Security time bomb, activated 25 years ago by President Reagan, will run out of time. All of the previous administrations knew that spending Social Security revenue, as if it were general revenue, was wrong and was a violation of both federal law and the public trust. But, they all had the luxury of knowing that the raided Social Security money would not be needed to pay benefits while they were still in office. However, President Obama learned early in his presidency that, unless the government ended the raiding and began repaying the money that had already been raided, Social Security would face a major financial crisis during his presidency.

When President Obama first saw these numbers, he must have almost gone into a state of shock. His predecessors left him with a lot of problems that can plainly be seen by the public—two wars, a collapsed economy, and a gigantic deficit and debt. But the embezzlement of the Social Security trust fund money was done without public knowledge, and it is doubtful that Obama knew anything about it prior to becoming a United States Senator, and he may have not known about it until he entered the White House. President Obama cannot just kick the can farther down the road as his four predecessors have done. He must find a way to raise the money to repay the government's debt to Social Security, or cut Social Security benefits so the money will not have to be repaid.

Embezzlement is a crime, and every participant (all the presidents and members of Congress who supported the practice) knew they were committing a crime against the American people as they used the people's Social Security money as general revenue over the past 25 years.

I question the part about he embezzlement being done without public knowledge. The article itself talks about Patrick Moynihan's efforts to stop the raiding. It was public knowledge, so Obama must have known about it. Still, an interesting article.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama offers up Social Security
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 10 Jul 11 - 04:45 PM

No, let's revise even further...
What we have is a:

Reagan Revolution spending problem


snip---
"The Reagan-Bushes National Debt now totals $9.2 trillion. That's the lions share of our present debt."
snip--

Article contains links to the original sources and data -- go argue with them if you can.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama offers up Social Security
From: Greg F.
Date: 10 Jul 11 - 03:29 PM

If folks did [listen to FOX News], they might learn something.

Absolutely, Doug! They'd learn what bullshit is.

Remember who own Faux News? No? - good ol' Slime-Ball Rupert Murdock. Guess you haven't been paying attention (as usual) to the world news, eh, Douggie? Check out these threads

BS: Hacking a murdered girl's phone
BS: RIP 'News of the World'.

And then try reading a real newspaper, eh?

Subject: RE: BS: Obama offers up Social Security
From: Greg F.
Date: 10 Jul 11 - 03:22 PM

We don't have a revenue problem, we have a spending problem

I see PeeDee and the Heritage Houndation are in denial, as usual.

35 years of Reagonian Voodoo Economics and "Tax Cuts Are The Solution To Everything" have been clearly proven to be the major cause of this mess.

What's the Heritage Foundation, Republican, and Koch brothers solution to the current difficulties?

Yup! More tax cuts.

Classic definition of insanity : repeating behavior & expecting different results.

Or perhaps they're just plain stupid.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama offers up Social Security
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 10 Jul 11 - 03:13 PM

I agree with PDQ, but with an important detail added.
We have a:



Republican spending problem

Subject: RE: BS: Obama offers up Social Security
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Jul 11 - 01:46 PM

Excellent suggestion, Stringsinger.

If folks did, they might learn something.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Obama offers up Social Security
From: Stringsinger
Date: 10 Jul 11 - 10:45 AM

The Heritage Foundation is a Republican propaganda think tank and has nothing of value
to add to the current job crisis. May as well listen to Fox News.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama offers up Social Security
From: Stringsinger
Date: 10 Jul 11 - 10:42 AM

I'm afraid that Obama has morphed into a Republican. He owes Wall Street.
They will finance his next election.

If he does anything to cut Medicare, Medicaid or Social Security, I will not
support him in the next election.

I might vote Democratic ticket just to keep Romney and Bachmann out but
will forget about the presidency as being a viable working branch of government.

The whole idea of a spending problem is a complete ruse and political football for the Republicans. If there were a government program to add jobs ala FDR, we wouldn't have a spending or revenue problem. The Republicans are holding the country hostage and Obama is blinking.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama offers up Social Security
From: pdq
Date: 09 Jul 11 - 11:02 PM

We don't have a revenue problem, we have a ...


                                                                                                                  spending problem

Subject: RE: BS: Obama offers up Social Security
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Jul 11 - 09:35 PM

This republican Congress passed new rules that insist that every bill must mention the exact Constitutional right or ammendment that applies to the new laws they introduce. Wierd and whacky but true.

No gettin around bringing up the 14th ammendment which says "Congress MAY NOT QUESTION paying the debts of the United Sates of America."   short and sweet but to the point.

No Congress has ever held the USA hostage over paying the debt since George Washington was President... all except for this Boehner Congress.

So far the Republicans have agreed that the words new taxes will not be mentioned by either party, instead they have agreed to use the word REFORM of obligations. What will happen in the last 48 hours is that a temporary bill will pass that will basicly agree upon substantive change in the future. Hmmm it sounds just like what happened in Greece recently.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama offers up Social Security
From: MarkS
Date: 09 Jul 11 - 03:35 PM

Cost of Living Increases have already been zero for the past 2 years, on Social Security and in my case my veterans disability pension.
Nothing new here - nothing to see - move along.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama offers up Social Security
From: michaelr
Date: 09 Jul 11 - 12:02 AM

Sorry Bobert, I don't follow. What about the 14th Amendment?

Subject: RE: BS: Obama offers up Social Security
From: gnu
Date: 08 Jul 11 - 09:59 PM

Hold up his end? Now, blowjobs I can understand but that is kinda extreme innit? How will he cover his ass on that one?

Subject: RE: BS: Obama offers up Social Security
From: Bobert
Date: 08 Jul 11 - 09:57 PM

14th amendment and then blame it all on the Repubs and they will suffer in the 2012 elections!!!

Brilliant strategy... He has the repubs very confused right now...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Obama offers up Social Security
From: michaelr
Date: 08 Jul 11 - 09:48 PM

I hope you're right, Bobert. But what's he going to do if he can get the Republicans to make that concession? He'll have to hold up his end, won't he?

Subject: RE: BS: Obama offers up Social Security
From: Donuel
Date: 08 Jul 11 - 09:45 PM

The so called cuts to Medicare and social security that have recently been reported has to do with changing the Cost Of Living Increases which is designed to keep level with inflation. There is the suggestion to eradicate the Everloving COLI

That is a down the road saving/slow strangulation of benefits.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama offers up Social Security
From: Bobert
Date: 08 Jul 11 - 09:40 PM

Wait a minute... Obama isn't into dismantling safety nets, micheal... He's trying to flush out Johnny Bonehead... Obama hasn't offered to take one dime out of anything... He's saying "everything is on the table" to try to get the Repubs off their Norquist blood swearing to never ever under and circumstance raise taxes a dime...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Obama offers up Social Security
From: gnu
Date: 08 Jul 11 - 09:30 PM

Clinton? Are blowjobs covered under the new health care package as part of sex therapy or something? That would scare the hell outta me on accounta that would cost millions! At least millions!

Subject: RE: BS: Obama offers up Social Security
From: Sawzaw
Date: 08 Jul 11 - 09:27 PM

I am not opposed to raising taxes. What I am opposed to is spending tax money on bullshit like $3.4 million turtle tunnels and $500,000 treadmills for shrimp.

Ideological feel good crap that we have to borrow 57% of the money from the Chinese to pay for and then a lot of it goes right back to China?

3.4 million for turtles when kids have to go to a crappy rat infested school with old outdated books?

President Obama on Wednesday plans to unveil new rules to restrict the practice of pork-barrel spending on the same day that he signs a $410 billion bill swollen with money for lawmakers' pet projects.

Mr. Obama promised during the transition to reduce earmarks to a total value of less than $7.8 billion a year, compared to the $29 billion in earmarks during 2006.

Mr. Obama has also proposed that lawmakers be required to attach their names to earmarks and provide a written justification for each earmark, which will have to be submitted 72 hours before the bill is passed by the Senate.

I'm still waiting for that change. Hope it comes soon.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama offers up Social Security
From: michaelr
Date: 08 Jul 11 - 09:05 PM

The liberal media again?

Obama has proposed no cuts, that is correct. But he has apparently signaled that he may be willing to consider cuts.

Whether he's bluffing, as Bobert thinks, or he's ready to continue caving in to Republican demands, we'll see soon enough. I've got a bad feeling. (I've had that feeling since Clinton was elected.)

Subject: RE: BS: Obama offers up Social Security
From: artbrooks
Date: 08 Jul 11 - 08:44 PM

Obama has proposed no cuts. The "cuts" are entirely a media and far-left invention.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama offers up Social Security
From: michaelr
Date: 08 Jul 11 - 08:16 PM

Oh, come on - "the whole country" does not want its safety nets dismantled. Do you know any seniors? Just ask them.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama offers up Social Security
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 08 Jul 11 - 08:07 PM

Obama is trying to do what Bush refused to do. Be the President of the whole country.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama offers up Social Security
From: michaelr
Date: 08 Jul 11 - 08:01 PM

And so do all of us...

Subject: RE: BS: Obama offers up Social Security
From: Bobert
Date: 08 Jul 11 - 07:58 PM

I'm kinda with David Brooks, TIA... I think Obama has put Johnny Bonehead and the Boneheaders in a trick bag...

The Repubs lose either way...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Obama offers up Social Security
From: michaelr
Date: 08 Jul 11 - 07:46 PM

Of course. But that doesn't mean the Democrats, and particularly Obama, are much fitter.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama offers up Social Security
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 08 Jul 11 - 12:57 PM

David Brooks (a staunchly conservative columnist) nails it here:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/05/opinion/05brooks.html?_r=1

Final paragraph:

"If the debt ceiling talks fail, independent voters will see that Democrats were willing to compromise but Republicans were not. If responsible Republicans don't take control, independents will conclude that Republican fanaticism caused this default. They will conclude that Republicans are not fit to govern.

And they will be right."

Subject: RE: BS: Obama offers up Social Security
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 08 Jul 11 - 12:54 PM

As I posted on another thread:

"There is just no wiggle room. The Republicans did it."

http://zfacts.com/p/1170.html

Don't hesitate to follow links to the real data.
Please check the calculations yourself using the spreadsheet.
Yes, it was Reagan and Bush 1.
Forget about Bush 2 and Obama (although Bush 2's undfunded wars make up the next biggest burden).
If not for Reagan-Bush tax cuts and spending increases, we would not be where we are today.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama offers up Social Security
From: michaelr
Date: 08 Jul 11 - 12:52 PM

Because when Obama says it, it'll be too late. Now is the time to let him know we want him to stop caving in to the bastards.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama offers up Social Security
From: Bill D
Date: 08 Jul 11 - 12:22 PM

"reports say"

Why not wait until **Obama** says before assuming those reports are accurate?

I heard that this was only a 'trial ballon' to get reactions. I see it is working.

I am ON Social Sercurity. I will be interested in how this develops... if at all.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama offers up Social Security
From: michaelr
Date: 08 Jul 11 - 12:07 PM

Current tax breaks to the wealthy: $700+ billion
Tax breaks to the wealthy in the proposed Republican budget: $1 trillion
Possible revenue from repealing Bush tax breaks for the wealthy over ten years: $730 billion
Percent of Americans receiving 80% of new income since 1985: top 1
Chevron profits in 2009: $10 billion
IRS payments to Chevron in 2009: $4.1 billion
Actual U.S. unemployment rate: 16%
Major country with highest child poverty rate: U.S.
Number of Americans without health insurance: 50 million
Number of Americans who would be denied health covereage under the republican budget: 34 million
Number of children who would lose coverage: 2 million
Cost of Paul Ryan's private care plan to a 65-year old in 2022: $20,500
Worth to that person of Ryan's health care voucher: $8,000


These figures are from a recent speech by Senator Bernie Sanders, D-Vermont. www.sanders.senate.gov

Subject: RE: BS: Obama offers up Social Security
From: Janie
Date: 07 Jul 11 - 11:00 PM

Even wisdom can lead in opposite directions, depending on one's values and how those values are prioritized.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama offers up Social Security
From: michaelr
Date: 07 Jul 11 - 10:45 PM

Sorry, I meant to address Janie.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama offers up Social Security
From: michaelr
Date: 07 Jul 11 - 10:44 PM

It's reeeeally easy, Jeri. See here. The obvious areas to cut spending are the wars that are costing us billions per week, and the military contracts for hardware that even the Pentagon doesn't really want. The next biggest area is health care. Billions could be saved if we removed the profit motive once and for all.

If they cut there, no one would have to talk about Medicare or Social Security. It would be a non-issue. But what Boss Hogg wants is to return us to a two-class society.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama offers up Social Security
From: Rapparee
Date: 07 Jul 11 - 10:38 PM

"Information is abundant. Wisdom is scarce."

Subject: RE: BS: Obama offers up Social Security
From: Janie
Date: 07 Jul 11 - 10:27 PM

How many of us actually know and understand what the US budget consists of?

I'm unwilling to react to most of what I read or hear, simply because it is so complex that my fiscally handicapped brain can't take it in, can't separate out fact from propaganda coming from any point of view, and even if I could figure out who or what sources provide simply objective information, I don't have the skills or knowledge to evaluate it. I'm not a genius, but am not stupid. It is pretty scary to not be able to understand well enough to have an informed opinion on major details.

I get that it is absurd to try to deal with the deficit without increasing tax revenues. I also get that significant cuts in spending are needed. I get that for this country to get our fiscal house in order I am going to have to feel the pain of both tax increases and spending cuts. But the devil is in the details. I probably wouldn't get the details if there was actually some agency or group that tried to lay them out objectively.

What I do get is spin and politics and rhetoric make it impossible for an average schmuck like me to develop an informed opinion. It may be that life on this planet has become so systemically complex and overtly interrelated there is more information and more implications for any action than my pea brain can grok.

Anyone else feel lost?

Subject: RE: BS: Obama offers up Social Security
From: Bobert
Date: 07 Jul 11 - 10:24 PM

You writin' yer kid's term papers, Rap???

But I agree... "The Repubs have infected yet another perfectly good word: entitlements!!!

Oughtta be "pensions"...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Obama offers up Social Security
From: Rapparee
Date: 07 Jul 11 - 10:09 PM

I'm tired of Medicare, Social Security, and VA Benefits being called "entitlements." Hell, I paid for them with my wages and my health. "Entitlements" are cheap haircuts, cheap meals, special parking at Reagan National Airport, use of the Library of Congress' Congressional Reference Service to do research for your kid's term paper, and similar stuff.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama offers up Social Security
From: Bobert
Date: 07 Jul 11 - 08:50 PM

It is apparent that both Social Security and Medicare need some tweakin' and by throwing them into the mix all Obama is really doing is trying to put Grover Norquist, the self-declared dictator of America, on the defense...

Good move...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Obama offers up Social Security
From: artbrooks
Date: 07 Jul 11 - 08:47 PM

I find it interesting that the only place that "Social Security cuts" are mentioned in that Wash. Post article is in the headline. Otherwise, nothing. What cuts?

Subject: RE: BS: Obama offers up Social Security
From: akenaton
Date: 07 Jul 11 - 08:47 PM

Isn't that what I and a very few others have been saying since before Mr Obama was elected ......wedded to the system.

You really have to FIGHT for change you know......no one has any intention of serving it up on a platter.

Subject: BS: Obama offers up Social Security
From: michaelr
Date: 07 Jul 11 - 08:28 PM

This just in from MoveOn.org

BREAKING: Reports say the president just offered to cut Social Security benefits, if Republicans agree not to let the U.S. default on its debts. (1)

It's his offering to the out-of-control Republicans, who are threatening to crash the economy in order to ram through savage cuts to crucial government programs.

It's sickening to think that millions of seniors would have to sacrifice in order to appease Republican hostage-takers. Especially because every poll shows overwhelming majority of Americans support raising taxes on the rich and protecting Social Security and Medicare. (2)

1. "In Debt Talks, Obama Offers Social Security Cuts," The Washington Post, July 6, 2011
http://www.moveon.org/r?r=210871&id=28665-1452401-yOyP5Ox&t=5

2. "Poll: To Reduce Deficit, Most Americans say Tax the Rich More," CBS News, January 3, 2011
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20027036-503544.html


I am beyond disgusted. Speaking (in another thread) of conspiracy theories, Obama is looking more and more like a straw man put in place to hand "them" whatever they want. You can make your opinion known here.