BS: The Code Talkers (WWII)

Subject: RE: BS: The Code Talkers (WWII)
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 11 Nov 11 - 06:40 PM

Poor Joe....

Mind you, it could have been that Joe was telling the truth, Lighter. I've taken this from my link, just above your post:

>>>>"....Even today, after fifty years, many people have the wrong idea about the use of the Navajo language as a code. While the agility, endurance and courage of the Navajo soldier in the Pacific campaigns are legendary, only a passing notion of the use of Navajo as code is understood. It was mistakenly seen as a simple process of two Navajos talking to each other. On the contrary the major contribution of the Navajo marine was cerebral. The Navajo marines had literally created an alternative Navajo language. They changed around and substituted words. The result was mixed up Navajo. Not even native Navajo speakers tested with the new code talk knew what these Navajo marines were talking about. "That's crazy Navajo," one remarked. In addition, none of the Navajo code was written down. It was all committed to memory! The Navajo Code Talk was born and became one of the most potent weapons used by the United States in the Pacific campaign.

Yet, military intelligence, still skeptical, and demanded a demonstration. Two of the top intelligence officers who were specialists in breaking codes were called in to test the Navajo Code Talk. They couldn't even transcribe the sounds they were hearing much less decipher its meaning. The potency and practicality of the code was firmly established. When the Japanese first heard Navajo code talk, they were totally confused, and it was decades after the war that the source of the code was revealed. The Navajo Code Talk was top secret and retained a classified status until 1968...."<<<<

Subject: RE: BS: The Code Talkers (WWII)
From: Lighter
Date: 11 Nov 11 - 06:01 PM

The Japanese had no Native American linguists, but they weren't fools. Suspecting that the codes might be based on Indian languages, they searched among the thousands of American prisoners taken in the Philippines until they discovered Navaho Sgt. Joe Kieyoomia (1919-1997).

Despite repeated torture, Kieyoomia insisted that he couldn't understand more than a few words of the coded transmissions. Had he cooperated, Japanese codebreakers might eventually have recognized that probably "turtle" meant tank, etc., etc.

Another unsung hero.

Subject: RE: BS: The Code Talkers (WWII)
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 11 Nov 11 - 02:35 PM

Good article on how they did what they did...

Subject: RE: BS: The Code Talkers (WWII)
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 11 Nov 11 - 02:28 PM

"This was shown in the House of Representatives at the Arizona State Capital during the Navajo Code Talker Monument dedication on Feb 28, 2008."

The Navajo Code Talkers - Speech from 2008

Subject: RE: BS: The Code Talkers (WWII)
From: Little Hawk
Date: 11 Nov 11 - 12:27 PM

Clever Allied codebreaking and code talking certainly helped the Allies win the war. Both the German and Japanese military codes were broken early on, with the result that the Allies generally knew in advance almost every move the Germans and Japanese were going to make on the battlefield. This led to many Allied victories, the Battle of Midway probably being the most decisive of them.

It was the British who broke the German Enigma code by capturing vital code equipment and info off a German U-boat. (This was recently retold in an American film to make it look like the Americans did it...) American codebreakers broke the Japanese code and had early warning of the impending attack on Midway Island, enabling a much weaker US fleet to ambush and destroy 4 of Japan's 6 largest aircraft carriers...a master stroke that turned the tide of war in the Pacific.

Using Native American codetalkers was a smart ploy...it must have given the Japanese fits! ;-)

I think that the Allies would have won the war anyway, even if none of the above had happened...but they wouldn't have won it nearly as soon, and their losses would have been far greater.

The Germans and Japanese were naturally trying to break Allied codes all through the war as well. To what extent they succeeded, I don't know. You don't hear much about it. I would gather, though, that their efforts were largely unsuccessful.

Subject: RE: BS: The Code Talkers (WWII)
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 11 Nov 11 - 12:24 PM

They did have a code pdq, according to the movie, (which I enjoyed Amergin) They had code words from their native language to represent ordnance and other military terms. For instance the word for "tortoise" represented tanks.

Subject: RE: BS: The Code Talkers (WWII)
From: pdq
Date: 11 Nov 11 - 12:19 PM

For the most part, the "code talkers" simply spoke their native language, being Hopi, Navajo or another Native American tongue.

I have a serious book (about 1" thick) that attempts to teach the Navajo language to English speakers. It is so different that it would require a native speaker to pronounce the basic sounds for a novice to even get started.

Subject: RE: BS: The Code Talkers (WWII)
From: Mrrzy
Date: 11 Nov 11 - 12:13 PM

I've met some of the code talkers, at the National Powwow one year, but they were all Navajo.

Basque, wow!

Subject: RE: BS: The Code Talkers (WWII)
From: artbrooks
Date: 11 Nov 11 - 12:04 PM

We US Army veterans often joke that the US Marine Corps always got all of the publicity. With all possible respect to the Marines and the Marine code talkers from the Navaho nation, members of the Hopi, Comanche, Cherokee, Fox and Choctaw nations served as code talkers in the Army in both Europe and the Pacific. In fact, the US Navy even had Basque code talkers!

Subject: RE: BS: The Code Talkers (WWII)
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 11 Nov 11 - 11:22 AM

Probably very true, Amergin. I've not watched it yet, just put the link in. I find Nicholas Cage to be not an actor who takes me into a story, I have to admit...

And this story NEEDS to be told strongly and proudly.

Subject: RE: BS: The Code Talkers (WWII)
From: Amergin
Date: 11 Nov 11 - 11:18 AM

They don't deserve a movie of such low caliber as the one that was made. They deserve much more than Nicholas Cage pretending he can act, and a stupid storyline.

Subject: RE: BS: The Code Talkers (WWII)
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 11 Nov 11 - 11:12 AM

Yup, I've just found it, Dan! :0) x At least, the one with Nicholas Cage in:


The Windtalkers - Youtube - Parts 1 - 15

Subject: RE: BS: The Code Talkers (WWII)
From: olddude
Date: 11 Nov 11 - 11:07 AM

They were amazing, they even did a movie about them Lizzie.

Subject: BS: The Code Talkers (WWII)
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 11 Nov 11 - 11:00 AM

The Official Site of the amazing men who turned the tide of the war in the Pacific:

The Code Talkers