BS: UK: Avaaz Petition '24 hrs to save NHS'

Subject: RE: BS: UK: Avaaz Petition '24 hrs to save NHS'
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 21 Mar 12 - 01:49 PM

I quite agree that solicitors should never have been allowed to advertise, and indeed the 20 partner limit should still be in place and it should be illegal to form professions into limited companies so that professionals can try to escape their own negligence. Additionally, solicitors' insurance should only kick in to protect the client if the solicitor goes bankrupt on the claim. Same should apply to accountants and auditors too.

If your reference to restrictive clauses means you like will writers and licensed conveyancers, I will repeat what I've said before that I've never picked up a piece of work by either that did not contain at least one egregious goof.

Subject: RE: BS: UK: Avaaz Petition '24 hrs to save NHS'
From: Musket
Date: 21 Mar 12 - 12:37 PM

Yeah true mate... The quality of solicitors didn't exactly go up either when they let the buggers advertise and clamped down on their restrictive trading clauses. Competition and cartel both start with a C.

I'll get me etc

One thing the internal market did do was force us to analyse what The NHS actually costs because without that, you can't know if your improvement changes bear fruit. In some areas of the country, doubling activity cost twice the amount whilst in others, doubling activity could be achieved by being more efficient, organising clinics and theatre lists better, accepting that the cost of two nurses can sometimes bear better fruit than the same money getting one doctor etc. You can't defend it unless and until you can quantify it.

Unfortunately, letting politicians know what it cost was just asking for trouble.......

Subject: RE: BS: UK: Avaaz Petition '24 hrs to save NHS'
From: DMcG
Date: 21 Mar 12 - 12:10 PM

While I doubt it will have much real effect, that risk register could be a bit of a time bomb. Anything in it that comes to pass will be taken as something the government knew about but deliberately hid. Come election time, that could prove very painful for them. Whenever it gets published will cause problems, but not publishing it will be just as difficult...

Subject: RE: BS: UK: Avaaz Petition '24 hrs to save NHS'
From: Little Hawk
Date: 21 Mar 12 - 12:01 PM

Read Naomi Klein's book "Shock Doctrine". You have just seen another inglorious chapter in the corporatocracy's ongoing effort to privatize absolutely everything, make the public pay for it, and deliver the world into the hands of a tiny elite, the robber barons who sit at the very top of the financial pyramid.

Subject: RE: BS: UK: Avaaz Petition '24 hrs to save NHS'
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 21 Mar 12 - 09:56 AM

The rot set in when Thatcher introduced the internal market, and I accept that B.Liar made matters worse - but what we are being forced to have is worse yet.

By the way, in my experience competition in double glazing companies usually leads to dodgy guarantees and phoenix frauds.

Subject: RE: BS: UK: Avaaz Petition '24 hrs to save NHS'
From: Musket
Date: 21 Mar 12 - 09:52 AM

The last Labour government brought in foundation trusts, (to create a level playing field for private providers,) introduced Independent Sector Treatment Centres (to cream off the profitable easy procedures under the guise of driving down waiting lists which existing hospitals could do if funded to) and started a PFI building program that The NHS will still be paying private venture banks for in thirty years time..

Absolute guarantees are nice things to talk about but when Andy Burnham, Labour's health shadow and ex secretary of state pointed out that they could have achieved most of their aims without the need for further legislation it was because Labour's legislative program for The NHS had already provided it...

This is bad legislation, takes the eye off the ball at the wrong time and loses a hell of a lot of talent with the huge redundancy program. I was fundamentally against it for many reasons, but the headline reasons that many others are fearful of have been around since The Health and Social Care Act 2003. Competition may drive up standards in double glazing companies but strong clinical networks spanning many hospitals lead to safer lower risk higher quality care, and that's not easy if it means cooperating with your competitors.

Subject: RE: BS: UK: Avaaz Petition '24 hrs to save NHS'
From: Owen Woodson
Date: 21 Mar 12 - 08:58 AM

Hang on folks. The show's not over 'til the fat lady sings and the game isn't over until Cameron and all his fat cat cronies have been driven from office.

What we have to fight for now i an absolute guarantee that the next Labour government will re-nationalise the NHS, lock, stock and barrel, and restore it to what it once was - the envy of the world.

But this is a very black day indeed.

Subject: RE: BS: UK: Avaaz Petition '24 hrs to save NHS'
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 20 Mar 12 - 09:59 PM

Have fun with your Aunt Sally.

I do. I enjoy pub games!

Subject: RE: BS: UK: Avaaz Petition '24 hrs to save NHS'
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 20 Mar 12 - 09:29 PM

Chickenfeed in comparison. And in any event I'd like a socialist government, not New Labour. Have fun with your Aunt Sally.

Subject: RE: BS: UK: Avaaz Petition '24 hrs to save NHS'
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 20 Mar 12 - 09:10 PM

It is unforgivable. We must not forgive or forget this government and its determination to trample on the people.

Quite right. You wouldn't find the last government trampling om peoples rights, arresting anyone who may have a dissenting view at party conference, or anything like that!

Subject: RE: BS: UK: Avaaz Petition '24 hrs to save NHS'
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 20 Mar 12 - 08:48 PM

It is unforgivable. We must not forgive or forget this government and its determination to trample on the people.

Subject: RE: BS: UK: Avaaz Petition '24 hrs to save NHS'
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 20 Mar 12 - 05:40 PM

We failed, the bill passed and I feel very ill.

Subject: RE: BS: UK: Avaaz Petition '24 hrs to save NHS'
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 20 Mar 12 - 11:57 AM

What he predicted happened. It is happening again.

Subject: RE: BS: UK: Avaaz Petition '24 hrs to save NHS'
From: Musket
Date: 20 Mar 12 - 11:16 AM

If you feel scared and afraid having heard Kinnochio's scare mongering, you could always seek to insulate yourself from the effects of such government.

Like getting a cushy number in Brussels. Oh, and a similar one for your wife. And the kids? Well, I'm sure your international influence will help get him a top number cozying up to the Russians with tax payer's money, less the bit you cream off the top.

Kinnock may have spouted the problems, but in his own case, provided the answers.

I don't have a problem with that. Land of opportunity and all that. Just that those who used to hang on his every word might be a little disillusioned by now.

Subject: RE: BS: UK: Avaaz Petition '24 hrs to save NHS'
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 20 Mar 12 - 08:24 AM

It was right then and it is right now.

Subject: RE: BS: UK: Avaaz Petition '24 hrs to save NHS'
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 20 Mar 12 - 08:19 AM

From: Richard Bridge - PM
Date: 18 Mar 12 - 04:46 PM

Well worth doing, all UK 'catters and I know several who have. May I remind you (precised from Neil Kinnock)

"I warn you not to fall ill. I warn you not to get old. You will have pain – when healing and relief depend upon payment. You will have poverty – when pensions slip and benefits are whittled away. You will be home-bound – when fares and transport bills lock you up. I warn you not to expect work – when many cannot spend, more cannot earn. I warn you not to go out after dark nor in protest in the light. The curfew of fear and the gibbet of unemployment make you obedient."

It may be worth noting that that warning was an attempt to prevent the re-election of Margaret Thatcher in 1983. She was re-elected, and clearly Neil Kinnock's worries did not come to fruition, as the same warnings are being issued now(a quarter of a century later).

Clearly, if labour don't manage to re-take control of the country the sky will fall on my poor bald head! (I admit to exaggeration!)

Subject: RE: BS: UK: Avaaz Petition '24 hrs to save NHS'
From: Musket
Date: 19 Mar 12 - 01:32 PM

I've signed it, although of course, the thing here isn't just the legislation, it's the contempt of Parliament.

It isn't a matter of signing it to stop it happening. The Health Act has already been enacted prior to being allowed to. PCTs have been dissolved, commissioning groups (the GP led bodies) have already begun commissioning (paying for) services and as for private provision, the last Tory government under Bliar & Broon set up private NHS providers...

The sad part is; Most of what Lansley wishes to do doesn't need news legislation, and that which he seeks to improve is based on disputed 10 year old figures. The NHS isn't perfect but it is a hell of a lot better than the government are spinning that it is....

The ironic thing is; GPs were in the driving seats with the original PCTs 10 years ago. The government dissolved them and set up larger bureaucratic bodies still called PCTs in 2006. The original combination of GPs influencing, and professionals such as doctors in pubic health and logistics experts in NHS management made it happen. All this does is put us back to 2005, but costing a few billion to get there.

Despite knowing a hell of a lot about this, despite genuinely being non political in such matters because our NHS is too important for political muppets to show the way... I am very disturbed by the political fixes here, and demonisation of those we need to make it happen, doctors and nurses, or public sector operatives with a cushy number as Osborn called them when attacking the public sector again the other day.

Subject: RE: BS: UK: Avaaz Petition '24 hrs to save NHS'
From: theleveller
Date: 19 Mar 12 - 06:27 AM

Yes, I've already signed it.

Subject: RE: BS: UK: Avaaz Petition '24 hrs to save NHS'
From: GUEST,CS
Date: 19 Mar 12 - 04:50 AM

"Nearly 600,000 zombies have signed it."

Blimey! Well it would seem that most zombies are in fact quite a lot cleverer than your MP supposed?

Subject: RE: BS: UK: Avaaz Petition '24 hrs to save NHS'
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 18 Mar 12 - 06:26 PM

I am one of those who signed it. Up to 104,091 signatures already.

Signed this one too from 38 Degrees an organisation my local MP called a bunch of zombies. Save the NHS petition

Nearly 600,000 zombies have signed it.

Subject: RE: BS: UK: Avaaz Petition '24 hrs to save NHS'
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 18 Mar 12 - 04:46 PM

Well worth doing, all UK 'catters and I know several who have. May I remind you (precised from Neil Kinnock)

"I warn you not to fall ill. I warn you not to get old. You will have pain – when healing and relief depend upon payment. You will have poverty – when pensions slip and benefits are whittled away. You will be home-bound – when fares and transport bills lock you up. I warn you not to expect work – when many cannot spend, more cannot earn. I warn you not to go out after dark nor in protest in the light. The curfew of fear and the gibbet of unemployment make you obedient."

Subject: BS: UK: Avaaz Petition '24 hrs to save NHS'
From: YorkshireYankee
Date: 18 Mar 12 - 04:11 PM

I received this e-mail today; thought it worth posting here for anyone who may feel the same way:

Only 24 hours left until the crucial debate at the House of Lords and over 85,000 signers in just 3 days! -- let's get to 150,000.

Dear friends across Britain,

We have just days to save the NHS. Opposition from doctors, nurses and patients has rocked the government. Our massive outcry now can persuade undecided members of the House of Lords to say no to the bill on Monday and get the government to publish its report on the risks of these changes.

The battle to save the NHS is now entering its final hours. David Cameron and Andrew Lansley seem determined to drag Britain’s most famous institution to its grave, but if we now stand together we can get the House of Lords to stop this bill in its tracks.

Public outrage is gripping the country as the Prime Minister persists with a bill that would dismantle the NHS and open the field to private companies. The government refuses to publish its internal report on the risks of the reforms, one reason among many why thousands of health professionals and many politicians oppose the changes. If we now build a massive outcry we can sway our last line of defence -- the House of Lords -- to save the NHS.

Let’s call on the undecided members in the House of Lords to keep the knives off our NHS and ensure we can all read the official risk report -- sign here and circulate. Our voices will ramp up the pressure as we deliver our petition when we reach key milestones between now and Monday:

http://www.avaaz.org/en/last_chance_to_save_the_nhs/?vl

The coalition promised no top-down reorganisation of the National Health Service. Yet it's brought in a bill that threatens to turn large chunks of the NHS over on a plate to private health care companies and cost-cutting consultants, threatening a tidal wave of privatisation that will leave our health system expensive and fragmented, with many of us getting only low-quality care. Citizens are outraged -- according to the latest polls, over half of us want the new bill to be scrapped.

Public opposition has already delayed the bill and forced several amendments, but the government is refusing to halt the reforms, wrongly insisting that opponents are just a minority group of disgruntled health care professionals and political opponents. The fight for the NHS now depends on the 200 members of the House of Lords who don't belong to a political party. They aren't used to public scrutiny, so if we target them now, we can win and ensure that any reforms of our precious health service are done in concert with health professionals and patients.

We only have until Monday to tip the balance. The recommendation to delay the debate until after the risk register has been released will throw the NHS a lifeline and allow us all to see the likely impact of this bill. Sign the petition, and send widely.

Britain is proud of the NHS, which has saved countless lives and won admirers across the world. Let’s act now and ensure our health care system stays free for all.

With hope,

Sam, Antonia, Alex, Alice, Jamie, Ricken and the rest of the Avaaz team

More information:
NHS reforms: Lib Dem divisions resurface as bill returns to parliament (The Guardian)

Time is running out to save the NHS (The Mirror)

NHS costs soar as GPs focus on health reforms (The Guardian)

Cabinet 'revolts against health reforms' (The Telegraph)

Cameron should scrap NHS bill and drop Lansley, says influential Tory blog (The Guardian)

NHS Reforms: More Than Half Of Voters Want To See Changes Dropped (Huffington Post