BS: A Day That Should Live In Infamy

Subject: RE: BS: A Day That Should Live In Infamy
From: Dead Horse
Date: 21 Apr 12 - 03:26 PM

Everybody who ever picked up a gun was a hired serial killer.
Whether they did it for pay, religeous belief, nationalism, political reasons or whatever is just semantics.
And while I may not care to much for the overdone gung-ho of the worlds more elite fighting units (such as the US Marine Corps) I will sleep better knowing that they are protecting the freedoms of my fellow countrymen, even at the cost of their own lives.

Subject: RE: BS: A Day That Should Live In Infamy
From: GUEST,Keith A o Hertford.
Date: 21 Apr 12 - 10:19 AM

This is not the place to discuss the complexities.
I was referring to the initial invasion by the North when massacres of Southern civilians were perpetrated on an horrific scale.
North, South, China and US all committed atrocities after that.

Subject: RE: BS: A Day That Should Live In Infamy
From: Jack Campin
Date: 21 Apr 12 - 09:07 AM

As that Wikipedia article says, 20% of the population of North Korea died. This article suggests there were three times as many Northern civilian casualties as Southern ones:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_War#Casualties

Obviously a lot of the statistics are distorted by exaggerations or simple indifference to the sufferings of the other side, but the basic pattern looks pretty uncontroversial.

It's just sick to pay so much attention to hired serial killers like the US Marines and totally ignore their vastly more numerous victims.

Subject: RE: BS: A Day That Should Live In Infamy
From: Megan L
Date: 21 Apr 12 - 08:46 AM

The thing I try to remember is that every event whether it was a car crash, the murder of an individual like Susan Pilley a large scale event such as the one Mrrzy's father died in or some natural disaster like the volcanic eruption on Heimaey in january 1973 (If I remember right thankfully no human deaths). Each leaves scars on those involved each scar is personal and no two people are exactly the same in how they react.

Subject: RE: BS: A Day That Should Live In Infamy
From: Charmion
Date: 21 Apr 12 - 08:31 AM

Oh, crap. Hey waiter -- check, please!

Subject: RE: BS: A Day That Should Live In Infamy
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 21 Apr 12 - 07:33 AM

And they helped kill 1.5 million Korean civilians.
The vast majority were South Koreans killed by the invaders from the North.
Our "help" was for the victims.
You think that was wrong Jack?

Subject: RE: BS: A Day That Should Live In Infamy
From: Charmion
Date: 21 Apr 12 - 07:18 AM

This conversation is degenerating into one of those swatting matches about whose tragedy is more cruelly overlooked. Time to stop.

Subject: RE: BS: A Day That Should Live In Infamy
From: Jack Campin
Date: 21 Apr 12 - 07:01 AM

And they helped kill 1.5 million Korean civilians.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civilian_casualty_ratio#Korean_War

Meanwhile in Lebanon, Israel killed 2000 civilians in 1978:

http://middleeast.about.com/od/lebanon/a/me080316b.htm

and around 18,000 in 1982:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1982_Lebanon_War

And I guess you didn't remember this terrorist bombing that killed 300 people in Beirut in 1981:

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=27a_1270840240

Subject: RE: BS: A Day That Should Live In Infamy
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 21 Apr 12 - 05:33 AM

Korea belongs in both lists.
British casualties were 1,078 killed in action, 2,674 wounded and 1,060 missing or taken prisoner.

Subject: RE: BS: A Day That Should Live In Infamy
From: Dead Horse
Date: 20 Apr 12 - 09:41 PM

I remember a war that lasted for 30 years and cost the lives of over 1500 British soldiers.
This war was partly funded by money donated from the USA and explosives obtained from Col Gaddafis Libya.
This war took place predominantly on British soil but also claimed victims elsewhere in Europe.
At times during this war, bombs were going off on an almost hourly basis, yet only the largest loss of life was reported in British newspapers.
Most of the young ones today never heard of this war, or many others that cost the lives of so many soldiers in places that most folks would be hard pressed to point to on a map.
How many kids in the USA have heard of Viet Nam? Korea?
How many kids in UK have heard of Dhofar? Northern Ireland? Kenya?
To them it is boring old stuff in history books.

Subject: RE: BS: A Day That Should Live In Infamy
From: John on the Sunset Coast
Date: 20 Apr 12 - 08:13 PM

Guest,John from Kemsing--

FDR may have called Dec. 7 1941 "a date(sic) that will live in infamy", but it is nearly a forgotten date in the USA. It is hardly mentioned in newspapers, radio or tv news broadcasts on the anniversary; few flags fly at half staff--I even have to remind the local US Post Office to do so--and fewer do each year.

Mrrzy--I hope you always remind us of the grim tragedy which robbed you of your father. Perhaps it will serve as catharsis for you, while reminding the rest of us to be ever vigilant. Bless you.

JotSC

Subject: RE: BS: A Day That Should Live In Infamy
From: alanabit
Date: 20 Apr 12 - 04:49 AM

This comes as a reminder that acts of appalling cruelty, which occupy the headlines for a few days, have consequences which affect the innocent for the rest of their lives. I hope you have some comfort in the good memories of your father Mrrzy.

Subject: RE: BS: A Day That Should Live In Infamy
From: fat B****rd
Date: 19 Apr 12 - 11:32 AM

Good thoughts, Mrrzy.

Subject: RE: BS: A Day That Should Live In Infamy
From: wysiwyg
Date: 19 Apr 12 - 11:01 AM

(((Mrr)))

Just so you know what some people do with this kind of thing, please know that I "welcome" (intentionally see) this kind of news every day. It is hard to fit it all in without getting numb-- and it certainly does not feel good!-- but it can be done.

~S~

Subject: RE: BS: A Day That Should Live In Infamy
From: Megan L
Date: 19 Apr 12 - 09:42 AM

The problem with days that stop our world turning is that everyone elses world rolls on and the circus moves to another town, that is no disrespect to an individuals suffering just the way of the world.

Subject: RE: BS: A Day That Should Live In Infamy
From: GUEST,John from Kemsing
Date: 19 Apr 12 - 09:34 AM

Also, "a day that will live in infamy", (F.D.Roosevelt), Dec., 7th, 1941.
PEARL HARBOUR

Subject: RE: BS: A Day That Should Live In Infamy
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 19 Apr 12 - 08:32 AM

and mine

Subject: RE: BS: A Day That Should Live In Infamy
From: Charmion
Date: 19 Apr 12 - 08:29 AM

I remember this, Mrrzy, and the truck bombing of the Marine barracks that followed in October that year. I was a student at the time, but a student who had recently been a soldier. I remember the attack on the U.S. Embassy in Beirut because it woke me up to the possibility that the Cold War wasn't where the next generation of soldiers would go to see the elephant.

My condolences on the loss of your father.

Subject: RE: BS: A Day That Should Live In Infamy
From: Jack Campin
Date: 19 Apr 12 - 04:48 AM

The first car bomb was actually a cart bomb, in New York in 1920, and the first one in the Middle East was planted by the Zionists in 1947.

Mike Davis: The Poor Man's Air Force

Subject: RE: BS: A Day That Should Live In Infamy
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 19 Apr 12 - 02:56 AM

I remember mrzzy, and offer my condolences to you.

Ernie

Subject: RE: BS: A Day That Should Live In Infamy
From: GUEST,Stim
Date: 19 Apr 12 - 02:16 AM

If it's anything to you, I remember it. My Dad was in Foreign Service and we were embassy brats. When something happens to any of us, we all feel it.

Subject: RE: BS: A Day That Should Live In Infamy
From: Rapparee
Date: 18 Apr 12 - 11:27 PM

And yes, I lost my own father when I was too young.

Subject: RE: BS: A Day That Should Live In Infamy
From: GUEST,999
Date: 18 Apr 12 - 11:23 PM

Ditto SRS.

Subject: RE: BS: A Day That Should Live In Infamy
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 18 Apr 12 - 11:02 PM

I'm so sorry that this is an anniversary for you and your family.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: A Day That Should Live In Infamy
From: Rapparee
Date: 18 Apr 12 - 09:34 PM

Because, Mrrzy, they said, "How awful!" when it happened, but it didn't affect them personally so they forgot about it.

Subject: RE: BS: A Day That Should Live In Infamy
From: Little Hawk
Date: 18 Apr 12 - 09:09 PM

That was indeed a very unfortunate beginning, Mrzzy. My condolences on the loss of your father.

And here was another unfortunate beginning at an earlier date:

1953 CIA and UK-backed coup in Iran to install the Shah and control Iran's oil

All the conflicts between America and Iran ever since that date can be traced back directly to that 1953 coup, planned in Washington and Whitehall, which ended a young parliamentary democracy, and replaced it with an autocratic dictator who served western oil and military interests in the region. It also ended the Iranian nation's nationalized control and ownership of their own oil sources, and handed that control over to privately owned western corporations such as BP. Iranians know this. They have not forgotten. That's why they finally revolted and threw out the Shah. Most Americans don't even know about the 1953 coup anymore, and their mass media don't remind them about it. The past does not even exist in the imperial mind, unless it can somehow serve the imperial cause. The imperial cause couldn't care less what happens to Iranians...but it does care about what happens to their oil!

Subject: BS: A Day That Should Live In Infamy
From: GUEST,Mrrzy
Date: 18 Apr 12 - 08:48 PM

29 years ago today, Iranian-following Syrian-trained Lebanese moslems blew up the Beirut embassy in the first car-bombing ever. Daddy, I still miss you.

Why don't more people know about this day?