BS: 'Tough Love' with Teens & Young Adults

Subject: RE: BS: 'Tough Love' with Teens & Young Adults
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 20 May 12 - 03:12 PM

Dealing with people with problems, or the problems people might percieve that they themselves have - whether addiction related or just "juvenile misbehavior" - is a very broad subject and it can be hard to find an appropriate way to get started and/or how to proceed.

Consensus opinion is that at least for addiction problems, a first step that's most likely to be of help is probably contact with a local help group. AA and/or Al-Anon of probably the best known, although there are quite a few others that have had reasonable success. Some are specialized for dealing with less common problems. The group chosen may depend on how each individual sees the problem.

Self-study, without some familiarity with what materials are available and which ones are appropriate to a particular problem, is pretty hopeless, at least initially. There are just too many sources to choose from, some of which are excellent but for the wrong problem, and quite a number of which are by authors (often claiming impressive credentials) touting a cure that worked once (they think) as the only method everybody should use for everything.

IF a person can identify a resource they think they should look at, so far as I know the principal source for books and other materials relating to the AA method for alcohol addiction is now Hazelden Books. While some of the "standards" may be available at local bookshops, they're often not visibly present in the majority of places.

Hazelden Books is an affiliate of the Hazelden Rehab Center, and they've "assembled" the publishing rights on much of the AA literature previously scattered among numerous small (and sometimes short-lived) publishers. They are about the only place one might be able to get copies of "the ones everybody wants that have been out of print for decades."

Browsing the book shop, before getting some knowledge of what's actually used by the people who need it, isn't too likely to be very productive; but anyone who "might want" material of the sort - sooner or later - might want to make a note of the name, if only in order to recognize it when it becomes appropriate to try to actually get something.

John

Subject: RE: BS: 'Tough Love' with Teens & Young Adults
From: gnu
Date: 20 May 12 - 02:04 PM

Me too, Megan. I will say, however, I think you woulda been a great Mum. And, yes, today's world is fraught with dangers in many forms.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Tough Love' with Teens & Young Adults
From: Megan L
Date: 20 May 12 - 11:49 AM

Never having had children of my own I cant say what i would have been like with them. However I think being a parent today must be so difficult with so many dangers and distractions facing your children.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Tough Love' with Teens & Young Adults
From: meself
Date: 20 May 12 - 11:15 AM

Many adults are far more understanding, tolerant, and open-minded with kids that are not their own ....

Subject: RE: BS: 'Tough Love' with Teens & Young Adults
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 20 May 12 - 08:16 AM

Megan, it's lovely to see that word 'skelping', as I heard it so often in Glasgow! My sister, I have to say, always talked openly and honestly with her girls, and encouraged them to talk to her. But I think it's quite common for a teenager to find a confidante in another person outside the family. Sometimes it's the grandmother, or perhaps the mum of a friend. I remember I used to confide in a neighbour called Doris, as she was so plump and comfortable, didn't overreact and had lots of time to listen. My own mum was working and there were things I didn't want to tell her (looking back, just silly things which seemed momentous at the time!) Doris was a good listener and I found her reassuring. You obviously have the same qualities for the young people you listened to.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Tough Love' with Teens & Young Adults
From: Megan L
Date: 20 May 12 - 07:17 AM

As a teenager I was far from the rebelious kind but my father still pulled the "This is my house you do what i say in my house" routine with the result he never got told anything that was happening in my life as much as i loved him.

My mother on the other hand had been brought up a true innocent once skelping a boy who tried to kiss her because she thought that was how babies happened. Yet i always knew that i could talk to her about ANYTHING there would be no condemnation or disgust. She would ask quiet questions encouraging me to think things through for myself and make my own decisions.

I worked for many years with 16-17 year olds and was saddened how many of them would ask me why they couldnt talk to thier mum or dad like they could to me.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Tough Love' with Teens & Young Adults
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 20 May 12 - 06:23 AM

My sister was widowed when her daughters were very young, so she's a single parent. I can tell you she had some very difficult times with those girls when they were teenagers. They said and did some dreadful things. But she always maintains that you have to have boundaries which you refuse to cross. You do have control over money and can withold it if you feel it to be warranted. If you maintain a toughness which can't be eroded, the youngsters, who are actually still only 'kids', will be held in check somewhat. My sister made the mistake of spoiling the girls materially with expensive presents, partly to compensate for their lack of a father. But apart from that, they've finally calmed down, are both at University and doing well. But it can be a very rough ride. Most of these difficult youngsters eventually settle down.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Tough Love' with Teens & Young Adults
From: GUEST,CS
Date: 20 May 12 - 04:00 AM

"A somewhat simplified summary of "tough love" is "don't enable;" but learning how to do that may require a fair amount of self-analysis and study. For those who might want to help and haven't been an enabler, tough love would mean "don't become an enabler, if you try to help.""

Thanks for that, don't think I ever really understood the term to well myself.

As for enabling v's tough love, I think that whatever the particular problem is comes into that issue. Understanding the specifics of the addiction is probably the most important thing when determining a personal strategy of how to respond appropriately.

While I accepted that persons right to choose a path of self-destruction, I was initially often actually harder on them than might in fact have been wise. Take alcohol benders for example, to provide alcohol after a serious extended bender, isn't in fact 'enabling' as one might easily suppose, but instead essential. Sudden withdrawls from booze can be damaging -leaving the drinker brain damaged or even killing them- and shouldn't be attempted.

It's very easy for such jargon to be uncritically absorbed by people (like me) in ways which may not take into account the particulars of either the problem or the people involved. Not that any of this necessarily relates to Janie's situation (and I'm sure she's the first person to educate herself about whatever the problem is) - but I just wanted to clarify that minor point.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Tough Love' with Teens & Young Adults
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 20 May 12 - 01:01 AM

Although it was the title of the book that may have "popularized" it, the term has been around for quite some time and my understanding is that it was known, and used, by quite a few counselors/advisors to families of problem persons quite a while prior to the book. I can't really be sure of that - but that's what it looks like from my vantage.

It's seldom heard in self-help circles like AA, but has been an integral part of the mantra for Al-Anon and other "family" support organizations for a fairly long time. It's used by quite a few practicing psychologists, although I can't say how long it's been common among them. I'd have to check quite a few of the old books to try find when the term first appeared in "official" literature.

[Lin worked for some time for a publisher of AA books, and still makes about $.39 per year in royalties on a reprint plagiarization that she helped her boss put together 15 or 20 years ago. After she left that business I got to be an involutary volunteer on one book that the guy showed up with 3 days before his printer-drop-dead date, which wouldn't have been a problem except that he had typed rhe entire book in ALL CAPS, which meant a 100% conversion (and finding ALL the stuff that needed to be caps). It was only about 850 pages, so we made the deadline. We do have quite a few related books, mostly "comp copies" of ones she worked on, if we could find them.]

The term, as I've heard it, is almost exclusively used within drug and alcohol rehabilitation circles, although there's some indication it's been picked up by at least a few counselors specializing in more general kinds of "delinquency."

My observation has been that those who "teach" the term vary quite a bit in the fine points of their interpretation of its meaning and how it should be applied, with the most consistent interpretations possibly being in the Al-Anon and closely related groups. In general, anyone who "knows someone" who has a problem would be welcome at their meetings, and attendance at one or a few of their meetings might be one of the quickest ways to find a useful understanding of the method. In most areas Al-Anon welcomes families of those with any addiction, including alcohol, although in some places there may be other groups more specialized for other problems.

"Tough love" is a deliberate counter to the very dominant characteristic of "Enabling" by others in relationships with the persons who have the problems. (Almost) every alcoholic has an enabler. Most people who are "enablers" don't recognize the extent to which what they do in the belief that they're being helpful actually encourages the undesired behavior in the one with the primary difficulty; and a fair percentage of AA members report a lot of difficulty in identifying their enablers and avoiding the enablers' well-intentioned but inadvertently destructive behavior.

A somewhat simplified summary of "tough love" is "don't enable;" but learning how to do that may require a fair amount of self-analysis and study. For those who might want to help and haven't been an enabler, tough love would mean "don't become an enabler, if you try to help."

This is a very generic description, and it won't be difficult to find disagreement on the details; but it is based on what I've seen in the progress of a number of people who've been through (mostly still in) programs that rely on those terms to describe what they've been through. It may not be applicable to the original request, but seemed worth offering for general consumption.

John

Subject: RE: BS: 'Tough Love' with Teens & Young Adults
From: Janie
Date: 19 May 12 - 11:03 PM

Appreciate the pm's thus far. Operating in a vacuum is hard.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Tough Love' with Teens & Young Adults
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 19 May 12 - 10:51 PM

The phrase 'tough love' entered the lexicon as the title of a book telling parents how to deal with drug-using sons and daughters. I read the book, and was disappointed to see that the crux of the matter was that the kids should sign up for one particular drug-treatment program or else be thrown out of the house. Very little info was given about that program, except to boost it.

The whole thing smelled strongly of fish. Yet the idea of tough love has somehow entered our consciousness as a valid, if undefined, approach.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Tough Love' with Teens & Young Adults
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 19 May 12 - 09:14 PM

You have to provide minimal food and shelter. Nothing says it has to be tasty. Nothing says you have to provide internet, TV etc. A few clothes from the GOodwill should keep him or her tidy and warm..don't have to be fashionable.   

If there is another parent, it is their problem as well and sometimes they will do better with same-sex parent and it might be time to say here are my rules. You choose.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Tough Love' with Teens & Young Adults
From: Janie
Date: 19 May 12 - 08:25 PM

Thanks Sins. See pm.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Tough Love' with Teens & Young Adults
From: SINSULL
Date: 19 May 12 - 06:28 PM

Janie,
I wish I had advice. I have experience but the outcome is very tough to live with.
I don't give advice.
Some day we have to get together and chat.
SINS

Subject: RE: BS: 'Tough Love' with Teens & Young Adults
From: GUEST,CS
Date: 19 May 12 - 05:35 PM

I'd also reconsider what your values are and how they may be genuinely problematic for your relationship with the teen.

Tough Love -so far as I understand- places the entire onus on the young/badly behaving person, assuming that prevailing middle-class nice attitudes about behaviour and conduct are RIGHT full stop!

I learned from my delinquent adult, that you have to accept that other people don't always hold identicle attitudes about right behaviour to you, and furthermore they have a right to do so too.

What they don't have the right to do however, is to screw you over and fuck-up your life. So basic self preservation is where I would say "No further!" - I think that's a basic euphemism for "tough love" too.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Tough Love' with Teens & Young Adults
From: GUEST,CS
Date: 19 May 12 - 05:13 PM

Heh, doesn't fit your parameter, but I've had to deal with 'older adults/parents' - real challenge? yes! Tough love as a "do this or else" didn't work, I just had to accept that they were driven to do what they were going to do, and however tough the love was, I was going to keep on loving them irrespective.

Subject: BS: 'Tough Love' with Teens & Young Adults
From: Janie
Date: 19 May 12 - 05:00 PM

Hello Mudcat parents.

If you have some experience to share with having to practice "tough love" and deciding what the parameters are with older teens and young adults I'd appreciate you contacting me through a pm. Particularly, but not solely, interested in hearing from single parents for whom co-parenting has been a real challenge.

Thanks.

Janie