BS: Google Done Good

Subject: RE: BS: Google Done Good
From: Sawzaw
Date: 12 Jul 12 - 06:22 PM

I was not aware of Jack Champin. All of my Jacks refer to JTS

Subject: RE: BS: Google Done Good
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 12 Jul 12 - 05:48 PM

It get's a bit confusing with all these references to "Jack", when there are two Jacks in play...

Subject: RE: BS: Google Done Good
From: Sawzaw
Date: 12 Jul 12 - 07:06 AM

Let the record show that Jack cannot produce anything to show that Obama did anything to bring the dollar down in relation to the Yuan or for the stricter enforcement of trade rules.

His only ability is ridicule.

Subject: RE: BS: Google Done Good
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 12 Jul 12 - 12:13 AM

I like option 3. ignore most of your poorly written nonsense.

Subject: RE: BS: Google Done Good
From: Sawzaw
Date: 11 Jul 12 - 09:13 PM

I know Jack is just going to call me names for telling the inconvenient truth but he said:

"Sawzaw gives Obama no credit for bringing the dollar down in relation to the Yuan or for the stricter enforcement of trade rules than under the previous administration."

All Obama has done is Jack his jaws like Jack:

Summers brings back bubkes from Beijng
Huffington Post Business

Larry Summers, Director of the National Economic Council, returned empty handed from meetings this week with Chinese President Hu Jintao and other senior government officials. Although China announced in June that it would allow its currency to fluctuate, the yuan has gained less than one half of one percent since then. Summers was officially rebuffed by a spokeswoman for China's Foreign Ministry, who said, "Our exchange rate reform can't be pressed ahead under external pressure." Time has run out on negotiations. The House Ways and Means and the Senate Banking, Housing and Urban Affairs Committees will both hold hearings next week on China currency and will consider tough legislation such as Congressman Tim Ryan and Tim Murphy's Currency Reform for Fair Trade Act (HR 2378) and similar legislation introduced by Senators Chuck Schumer and Lindsay Graham.

Currency manipulation by China and several other Asian nations makes their goods artificially cheap and makes U.S. exports artificially expensive in China and in world markets. Chinese foreign exchange reserves, the main instrument of currency manipulation, reached an unprecedented $2.5 trillion this past June. The Chinese yuan or Renminbi (RMB) is estimated to be at least 35% to 40% undervalued, relative to the U.S. dollar. With no change in exchange rates and the growth of illegal subsidies and other unfair trade practices, it is no surprise that structural imbalances in trade and capital flows are resurfacing as the global economy recovers from the worst recession in 70 years. The growth of the U.S. trade deficit with China between 2001 and 2008 eliminated 2.4 million U.S. jobs; Ending currency manipulation now could create at least one million badly needed jobs.

Summers and Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner have been pleading for more time since last April, when Treasury announced the delay of a Congressionally mandated report on currency manipulation. Treasury wanted more time for bilateral Strategic and Economic Security Dialogue (S&ED) meetings, for the G-20 meeting and for Summer's trip this week with Thomas E. Donilon, Deputy National Security Advisor. Treasury officially refused to admit the obvious, that China's currency is 35-40% undervalued and is being manipulated; the currency report that was finally released on July 8 admitted that the data "suggest that the renminbi remains undervalued" but concluded that "no major trading partner of the United States" was manipulating its exchange rate. It was a laughable, failed attempt to deny the obvious elephant in the room: China is clearly manipulating its currency.

The failure of negotiations to bring about a significant revaluation of the RMB demonstrates that China will not change its policy unless and until it is confronted with the threat of real trade sanctions. If enacted, or even if approved by either chamber, the China currency measures currently under discussion in the House and Senate would send a strong message to both the Chinese government and the Obama administration. Congress could send an even stronger message by enacting an across-the-board restraint on imports from China and other currency manipulators, such as the Schumer-Graham currency measure of 2005, S. 295, which would have imposed trade sanctions if China failed to revalue. In 2005, 67 members of the Senate approved this legislation on a procedural vote. While S. 295 never became law, that summer China did allow its currency to float, and it rose 20% over the next three years. [under GWB] China has shown that it will not allow its currency to rise significantly unless Congress or the administration gets tough. The Obama economic team has shown that it has no backbone. Congress should adopt tough, across the board currency sanctions now.

So Jack can either produce something that shows Obama has done something or continue to Blowhard by refusing to present any facts of his own and call me names.

Subject: RE: BS: Google Done Good
From: Sawzaw
Date: 08 Jul 12 - 12:05 AM

"White Racism is Dead in the US?"

Who said it is?

I was complimenting Obama for his views on racism. I believe he has the right view. I believe the assholes that keep stirring it up don't want it to die. They need it to prop of their sorry ass existence at the detriment to others.

"I love white-on white-crime, because that is the best crime."
"I hate the g*ddamn white man, woman, and child, grandma, aunt, uncle, Pappa Billy Bob, and whoever else."
"You should be thankful we're not running around here hanging crackers by nooses and all that kind of stuff — yet, yet, yet"
"wet dream about killing the g*ddamn cracker."
"We don't allow faggots and lesbians" in the New Black Panther Army
"ready to bang on this cracker"
take over neighborhoods "block by block" so "crackers…or even the developer" would be scared to come into them
"We're taught to send this cracker to the cemetery… so kiss 'em goodbye"
"Your enemy did cannot make you free fool. You want freedom? You're gonna have to kill some crackers! You're gonna have to kill some of their babies!"

Subject: RE: BS: Google Done Good
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 07 Jul 12 - 10:20 PM

White Racism is Dead in the US?

"We don't have the facilities to accommodate other races, and we have nothing, not one bit of animosity, no racism whatsoever,"

See there, they told ya.

John

Subject: RE: BS: Google Done Good
From: Greg F.
Date: 07 Jul 12 - 09:55 PM

a view that sees white racism as endemic

And what is your evidence Sawz that it ISN'T endemic?

Subject: RE: BS: Google Done Good
From: Sawzaw
Date: 07 Jul 12 - 08:05 PM

Exactly what has Obama done to our largest foreign creditor other than flap his jaws and whine?

"Obama tries to bolster his image as a hard-liner against China. On Thursday, the administration lodged a new complaint against China at the World Trade Organization, challenging tariffs on U.S. auto exports."

Why is biggest U.S. creditor getting U.S. grants?

A grassroots pro-family group is outraged that the National Institutes of Health (NIH) has awarded more $90 million in grants to Communist China.

The Traditional Values Coalition (TVC) has completed a six-month investigation into the NIH's budget, discovering that in the past two and half years alone, it has awarded more than $30 million to scientists at Chinese universities and institutions to research Chinese medical issues. But the U.S. has given the Chinese government more than $90 million over the last decade.

TVC executive director Andrea Lafferty does not understand why America's biggest creditor needs grant money from the United States.

Andrea Lafferty (Traditional Values Coalition)"China holds over $1.1 trillion in American debt, yet we are sending our hard-earned taxpayer dollars to a communist country so it can fund the education of [its] citizens," she summarizes. "There are so many people in America that can't afford studies at colleges and universities."

She goes on to argue that the United States should not be giving taxpayer dollars to China for geopolitical reasons.

"A country that believes in killing [its] citizens, that [opposes] religious liberty, they support forced abortion -- it is a godless country," Lafferty points out. "It despises the United States. They're building up arms. We're very concerned about the potential arms race."

So the TVC is calling on the Obama administration and Congress to enforce a moratorium on NIH issuing grants while an independent investigation is conducted on its wasteful spending.

Subject: RE: BS: Google Done Good
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 07 Jul 12 - 02:56 AM

China plays a lot of those games and plays them well. But I know of examples in Canada and the UK where similar deals have been struck.

But there are also unfair trade practices. The Obama Administration has stepped up trade actions. They have lowered the relative value of the dollar. Most importantly they have focused attention on the issues. Companies are bringing jobs back to America for the positive PR.

Subject: RE: BS: Google Done Good
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 06 Jul 12 - 10:58 PM

In many cases, although the manufacturers claim that labor costs are lower in other countries, there is another reason for sending manufacturing out of the country.

On one large airplane with which I had personal contact, the US manufacturer was told, by at least three separate countries: "You will not be allowed to sell your airplane in our country or to any company with factories in our country, unless we get to build significant parts of it."

The result was that about 70% of the airplane was "made in other countries" despite our ability to build most of the parts that were foreign-made more cheaply here.

In several cases that were "costed" in detail, our labor rates were more expensive, but we could use a lot less labor to produce the same part, resulting in approximately equal cost, or sometimes less expensive part costs if made here. There were very few items that were actually less expensive when manufactured by the foreign plants - even after they underbid their actual costs of production in order to maintain the fiction that they were doing it cheaper.

The parts in this case weren't "sweatshop socks and shirts," where it's hard to be more efficient by enough to offset a really low labor pay scale; but lower procurement costs definitely are not the only - or often not the real - reason for going foreign.

John

Subject: RE: BS: Google Done Good
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 06 Jul 12 - 10:11 PM

Are you drinking?

Subject: RE: BS: Google Done Good
From: Sawzaw
Date: 06 Jul 12 - 10:09 PM

Barack Obama:March 18, 2008

....I have already condemned, in unequivocal terms, the statements of Reverend Wright that have caused such controversy. For some, nagging questions remain. Did I know him to be an occasionally fierce critic of American domestic and foreign policy? Of course. Did I ever hear him make remarks that could be considered controversial while I sat in church? Yes. Did I strongly disagree with many of his political views? Absolutely - just as I'm sure many of you have heard remarks from your pastors, priests, or rabbis with which you strongly disagreed.

But the remarks that have caused this recent firestorm weren't simply controversial. They weren't simply a religious leader's effort to speak out against perceived injustice. Instead, they expressed a profoundly distorted view of this country - a view that sees white racism as endemic, and that elevates what is wrong with America above all that we know is right with America; a view that sees the conflicts in the Middle East as rooted primarily in the actions of stalwart allies like Israel, instead of emanating from the perverse and hateful ideologies of radical Islam.....

Amen Barry. People who keep making everything into a racial issue are the racists and biggots.

Subject: RE: BS: Google Done Good
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 06 Jul 12 - 08:33 PM

I didn't and don't like Bill Clinton for one. I thought that what he did under that desk was one of the worst mistakes any President ever did. I can't and won't forgive him for that. But he deserves credit for Welfare reform and how he handled the economy.

I kind of liked George HW Bush, so giving him credit for how he handled the first Iraq War probably doesn't count but I really admire the way he handled the first Gulf War.

I admire the way Reagan inspired the country. I didn't like him at all.

So there is credit to two Presidents I do not like.

>>>Only a jerk condemns someone for something they didn't say.

Are you the party chairman that determines what people should say? Like Heil and click your heels or Allah be praised? Or what companies must do?<<<

I have no idea what you are talking about here. Would you care to explain?

I wasn't arguing with you about China, I was making your point and showing that Google did a lot more than Jack was talking about. I said that Google did good. That is what you said. I was agreeing with you. Are you calling me a jerk for agreeing with you or for something I have said on another thread?

Subject: RE: BS: Google Done Good
From: Sawzaw
Date: 06 Jul 12 - 07:02 PM

Only a jerk condemns someone for something they didn't say.

Are you the party chairman that determines what people should say? Like Heil and click your heels or Allah be praised? Or what companies must do?

Argue argue fight fight whatever makes you happy. Google done good. I am not particularly fond of Google either.

Regardless of legislation or costs in China or the Vatican or tall buildings it costs them more to make it here in the US but they did it anyway.

When did you give any credit to president you don't like?

If you didn't then you have defined yourself as a jerk.

Subject: RE: BS: Google Done Good
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 06 Jul 12 - 05:10 PM

I said positive things here. Not about you, but about the conditions allowing the opening of the Google plant.

You apparently are a jerk who only gives credit to Presidents you like.

"Not surprised that Sawzaw gives Obama no credit for bringing the dollar down in relation to the Yuan or for the stricter enforcement of trade rules than under the previous administration. Or for constantly repeating the word "American Manufacturing" from the bully pulpit, or at least for predicting such things when he said his administration would make US manufacturing jobs a priority. "

Also Jack said this.

"Rising labor and energy costs have made manufacturing in China significantly more expensive

And more significantly, anti-worker legislation in the US has made its workforce as affordably oppressed as the inmates of a Chinese labour camp."

I was saying that if the second factor was a significant as Jack thinks then Google would have put the jobs in states with lower wages and less "burden" on employers, States more like China. You know, like Boeing and Airbus did, or BMW & Mercedes. But they put the plant in Silicon Valley. Silicon Valley is probably the part of the US that is LEAST like China in those respects.

Yes I agree, Google did good. But not for the cynical reasons that Jack said.

Subject: RE: BS: Google Done Good
From: Sawzaw
Date: 06 Jul 12 - 04:56 PM

What is your point Jack?

I say it is good that American workers have jobs. Something wrong with that?

Is it bad or good?

I give Google credit for deciding to have something made in America for a change even though it costs them more. Spin it all you want.

You are just a jerk that does not want anyone to say anything positive.

Subject: RE: BS: Google Done Good
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 29 Jun 12 - 02:02 AM

Oh if You read it you will see Airbus has found "oppressed workers" in Alabama just like Diambler did.

Yeah, Oppressed in the way Chinese workers are, Lower wages, anti-union government, laxer safety and pollution laws, and lower minimum wages than California. All the things Jack was talking about without the hyperbolic exaggeration. What the heck is your point?

Subject: RE: BS: Google Done Good
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 29 Jun 12 - 01:57 AM

"Boeing tried to employ the "oppressed workers" in SC the mighty Union objected."

I was actually in Charleston when that story broke. I seems that you missed a lot of the coverage. The US government objected because the statements of a Boeing executive was a confession that Boeing had broken a specific law. The statute made it illegal to move a production line or factory to punish a union and he said that they had moved the production line to punish the union. If they had done nothing the whining class in this country would have called them feckless. Much better to enforce the law as written and be called whatever it is you are implying.

Subject: RE: BS: Google Done Good
From: Sawzaw
Date: 28 Jun 12 - 10:14 PM

If indeed that is what he has done then I will give him credit where credit is due.

"Or for constantly repeating the word "American Manufacturing"" Yes that has done nothing but it was good exercise for his lungs. I will give him credit for a good physical condition.

Oh if You read it you will see Airbus has found "oppressed workers" in Alabama just like Diambler did.

But when Boeing tried to employ the "oppressed workers" in SC the mighty Union objected.

I give Google credit for deciding to have something made in America for a change even though it costs them more. Spin it all you want.

"We are the union, the mighty mighty union, everywhere we go, people want to know, who we are, so we tell them. We are the union, the mighty mighty union"

Subject: RE: BS: Google Done Good
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 28 Jun 12 - 01:20 PM

Hmmmm. Not surprised that Sawzaw gives Obama no credit for bringing the dollar down in relation to the Yuan or for the stricter enforcement of trade rules than under the previous administration. Or for constantly repeating the word "American Manufacturing" from the bully pulpit, or at least for predicting such things when he said his administration would make US manufacturing jobs a priority.

Of course it is understandable, manufacturing jobs don't pop up over night.

I am surprised at the lefties. The jobs are in Silicon Valley. It is one of the two or three highest wage areas in the country. If Google was looking for "oppressed workers it would have gone to South Carolina or Alabama. Of course those workers are happy to be "oppressed" in the way you are talking about. They vote for it every election cycle. I guess that democracy is a bitch when it goes against our prejudices.

Subject: RE: BS: Google Done Good
From: Sawzaw
Date: 28 Jun 12 - 09:23 AM

So I presume that they should be made in the workers paradise of China?

Subject: RE: BS: Google Done Good
From: GUEST,999
Date: 28 Jun 12 - 09:01 AM

Jack, I don't remember arguing with you at any point, but your post just guaranteed that I never will. BRAVO and well said.

Subject: RE: BS: Google Done Good
From: Jack Campin
Date: 28 Jun 12 - 07:57 AM

Rising labor and energy costs have made manufacturing in China significantly more expensive

And more significantly, anti-worker legislation in the US has made its workforce as affordably oppressed as the inmates of a Chinese labour camp.

Subject: BS: Google Done Good
From: Sawzaw
Date: 28 Jun 12 - 07:35 AM

Google Done Good

I have been suspicious that Google's agenda is to try to take over and monopolize everything it can on the internet.

Whatever else they are doing, I have more respect for them now that they are selling something made in the USA. Hopefully the trend will continue.

Google Tries Something Retro: Made in the U.S.A.
New York Times

Etched into the base of Google's new wireless home media player that was introduced on Wednesday is its most intriguing feature. On the underside of the Nexus Q is a simple inscription: "Designed and Manufactured in the U.S.A."

The Google executives and engineers who decided to build the player here are engaged in an experiment in American manufacturing. "We've been absent for so long, we decided, 'Why don't we try it and see what happens?' " said Andy Rubin, the Google executive who leads the company's Android mobile business.

Google is not saying a lot about its domestic manufacturing, declining even to disclose publicly where the factory is in Silicon Valley. It also is not saying much about the source of many of its parts in the United States. And Mr. Rubin said the company was not engaged in a crusade.

Still, the project will be closely watched by other electronics companies. It has become accepted wisdom that consumer electronics products can no longer be made in the United States. During the last decade, abundant low-cost Chinese labor and looser environmental regulations have virtually erased what was once a vibrant American industry.

Since the 1990s, one American company after another, including Hewlett-Packard, Dell and Apple, has become a design and marketing shell, with production shifted to contract manufacturers in Shenzhen and elsewhere in China.

Now that trend may be showing early signs of reversing.

It's a trickle, but some American companies are again making products in the United States. While many of those companies have been small, like ET Water Systems, there have also been some highly visible moves by America's largest consumer and industrial manufacturers. General Electric and Caterpillar, for example, have moved assembly operations back to the United States in the last year. (Airbus, a European company, is said to be near a deal to build jets in Alabama.)

There is no single reason for the change. Rising labor and energy costs have made manufacturing in China significantly more expensive; transportation costs have risen; companies have become increasingly aware of the risks of the theft of intellectual property when products are made in China; and in a business where time-to-market is a competitive advantage, it is easier for engineers to drive 10 minutes on the freeway to the factory than to fly for 16 hours.

That was true for ET Water Systems, a California company. "You need a collaboration that is real time," said Pat McIntyre, chief executive of the maker of irrigation management systems, which recently moved its manufacturing operation from Dalian, China, to Silicon Valley. "We prefer local, frankly, because sending one of our people to China for two weeks at a time is challenging."

Harold L. Sirkin, a managing director at Boston Consulting Group, said, "At 58 cents an hour, bringing manufacturing back was impossible, but at $3 to $6 an hour, where wages are today in coastal China, all of a sudden the equation changes."

The firm reported in April that one-third of American companies with revenue greater than $1 billion were either planning or considering to move manufacturing back to the United States. Boston Consulting predicted that the reversal could bring two million to three million jobs back to this country.

"The companies who are investing in technology in the U.S.A. are more nimble and agile," said Drew Greenblatt, president and owner of Marlin Steel Wire Products in Baltimore, which continues to manufacture in the United States by relying on automation technologies. "Parts are made quicker, and the quality is better."

Other factors are playing a role as well, said Mitch Free, chief executive and founder of Mfg.com, an electronic marketplace for manufacturing firms. He pointed to trends including distributed manufacturing and customization as playing an important role in the "reshoring" of manufacturing to the United States.

The biggest challenge in bringing manufacturing home has been finding component suppliers nearby. Industry executives note that the decision to stay in China is often determined by a ready labor pool and the web of parts suppliers that surround giant assembly operations, like the one that Foxconn, the manufacturing partner of Apple and many other big electronics companies, operates in Shenzhen.

The Nexus Q, which links a TV or home sound system to the Internet cloud to play video and audio content, contains almost all American-made parts. The engineers who led the effort to build the device, which is based on the same microprocessor used in Android smartphones and contains seven printed circuit boards, found the maker of the zinc metal base in the Midwest and a supplier for the molded plastic components in Southern California.

Semiconductor chips are more of a challenge. In some cases, the chips are made in the United States and shipped to Asia to be packaged with other electronic components.

Google did not take the easy route and encase the Q in a black box. The dome of the Magic-8-ball-shaped case is the volume control — the user twists it — a feature that required painstaking engineering and a prolonged hunt for just the right bearing, said Matt Hershenson, an engineer who helped design the Q.

At $299, the device costs significantly more than competing systems from companies like Apple and Roku. Google says this is in part because of the higher costs of manufacturing in the United States, but the company expects to bring the price down as it increases volume. The company is hoping that consumers will be willing to pay more, though it is unlikely that the "Made in America" lineage will be part of any marketing campaign.

Google uses a contract manufacturer to make the Q. Last week it was being assembled in a large factory 15 minutes from Google headquarters. The company declined to say how many people were employed at the plant, which can run as many as three shifts each day. However, during a brief tour, made with the understanding that the exact location would not be disclosed, it was clear that hundreds of workers were involved in making the Q.

It is the kind of building that was once common across Silicon Valley during the 1980s and even the 1990s. More recently, former semiconductor fabrication and assembly factories have given way to large office campuses that house the programmers who design software and support Web sites.