a way for us all to 'just get along'

Subject: RE: a way for us all to 'just get along'
From: GUEST,Phantom Lurker
Date: 07 Nov 00 - 01:51 PM

CarolC. I agree. That's why I do not do it.

Subject: RE: a way for us all to 'just get along'
From: CarolC
Date: 07 Nov 00 - 12:41 PM

Phantom Lurker, I just want to state something for the record here, even though this does not have anything to do with the original post or anything else on this thread.

Since you asked for my input. I consider the practice of taking out multiple memberships under actual screen names, for the purpose of manipulating people and jerking them around, to be just as counterproductive and damaging as using pseudonyms for the same purpose.

Jeri, I'm afraid I'm going to have to disagree with you on this one. I think peoples' reactions are not the only factor that contribute to the damage to the forum. I think they are one factor, but I think there are many others as well.

For instance, when there is a rash of bogus threads, people have to take the time to open them and find out what they are all about before they realize they've wasted their time. That's just one example.

Carol

Subject: RE: a way for us all to 'just get along'
From: Troll
Date: 07 Nov 00 - 12:31 PM

Damn Pollyanna!
HELP! HELP! THE SKY IS FALLING!
Actually I feel pretty good too. They upped my medication and eeeverythin izzz grooooovy.
Or words to that effect. Lets hear it for chemicals!

troll...told ya so.

Subject: RE: a way for us all to 'just get along'
From: Little Hawk
Date: 07 Nov 00 - 12:19 PM

Actually, I'm feeling quite happy and cheerful today. How about you?

Subject: RE: a way for us all to 'just get along'
From: GUEST,Phantom Lurker
Date: 07 Nov 00 - 11:13 AM

Jeri - I agree with your analysis. Rodney's suggestion, whatever the motivation, seems common-sensical to me.

I guess I've lurked Mudcat long enough not to be surprised or particularly dismayed when the tone of a thread turns ugly. I try to avoid such threads.

One thing continues to baffle me. I still haven't found any correlation between the initial post and the anger level of the replies. Some initial postings that I would expect to generate a firestorm produce threads that are models of civility. On the other hand, I'll read some initial postings that I think are as bland as dry toast (like this one). I'll begin reading down the responses expecting a chorus of "me toos" and find instead a lynch mob. CarolC, is there an idea for a research paper here?

Subject: RE: a way for us all to 'just get along'
From: Troll
Date: 07 Nov 00 - 10:58 AM

Jeri. It's differences of opinions that make horse races.You can disagree with me anytime.***BG***
Sure I'm paranoid. Whats your point?

troll

Subject: RE: a way for us all to 'just get along'
From: Jeri
Date: 07 Nov 00 - 10:49 AM

I was talking about the words they wrote above, not what I perceive about who they are, their motives, even the level of seriousness with which the post. If I did that, I could very likely be wrong. I can still be wrong in my interpretation of their words, but at least I'm not making a whole picture out of small bits of it. I try to understand the difference between what I know to be true and what I perceive could be true.

Any damage that is done to the forum, is done by people's reactions and not what they're reacting to. My opinion. It's not the people who provoke, it's those who allow themselves to be provoked. Granted, it's a lot easier to get mad at one person than a whole bunch. It's a lot easier to say "they made me say that" than "maybe I shouldn't have reacted," but one post does not a flame war make.

In regards to what I wish vs what is real - my lack of seeing unstated motives in the first post isn't wishful thinking. It's me admitting I can't read minds. Troll, we may just have to disagree on this one.

Subject: RE: a way for us all to 'just get along'
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Nov 00 - 10:45 AM

Paranoia strikes deep
Into your mind it will creep
It starts when you see connections that aren't there
Step outa line, the troll come
And make baseless accusations

You better stop, children
What's that sound?
Everybody look what's goin' down

Subject: RE: a way for us all to 'just get along'
From: CarolC
Date: 07 Nov 00 - 10:31 AM

G.P.L., you're welcome.

For everybody else, it's a sad fact of life here in the Mudcat, that using pseudonyms in the way that it was done by the poster of this thread, will result in suspicion, and even possibly some ill will.

If people post threads in this way, they should expect to be taken less seriously than if they post under their regular screen name. Sometimes they won't be taken seriously at all. They need to take this into consideration when they choose this method of posting.

Carol

Subject: RE: a way for us all to 'just get along'
From: Troll
Date: 07 Nov 00 - 10:20 AM

Jeri, I'm sorry but I must disagree with your analysis. I'm afraid it reflects what you wish rather than what is. It is to your credit that you feel this way and I wish I could think as well of people.
But I think that the initial poster has also posted under various names in the last few days, always with the design of putting someone down or ridiculing them.He/She/It has posted enough times to establish a pattern in writing style and in the use of certain words; not all the time but enough.
It's people like this that make it difficult to get along at times.

troll

Subject: RE: a way for us all to 'just get along'
From: GUEST,Phantom Lurker
Date: 07 Nov 00 - 10:11 AM

CarolC, thank you for taking my question seriously.

Subject: RE: a way for us all to 'just get along'
From: Jeri
Date: 07 Nov 00 - 09:57 AM

Some people are bugged by an inconsistant use of names - today you're one person, tomorrow another. Makes it difficult to identify the one you want to yell at. :-)

It's my impression that the initial poster really intended to add to the harmony around here. It's a shame that so few people cared about their message.

I believe that the person who started this is a human being. I believe they like folk music because they're here. I believe the emotional arguments bother them, or they wouldn't have said what they did. I believe there's a chance they're very surprised at the amount of anger levelled at them for trying to promote "getting along."

Subject: RE: a way for us all to 'just get along'
From: Little Hawk
Date: 07 Nov 00 - 09:49 AM

Speaking of shit shovelers...one time I was at Rolling Thunder's camp (in Nevada, 1977) and I had run out of work to do, having attended to the goats and rabbits and finished all that. I figured I ought to be doing something, so I went up to Greg Valentin (the person I most admired on the face of the Earth...amazing man...my "uncle" Greg, as far as I was concerned), and said, "Chico Mescalero is bored. Chico needs something to do."

Greg looked at me sardonically. "So, Chico is bored, is he? Follow me, Chico, I have a job for you."

He led me to the pigpen, which our one and only pig had occupied until just a couple of days before, when the poor little guy was turned into pork roast and such....

"We need to get this pigpen emptied out," he said. "It shouldn't take you more than a few hours."

I stared at the pigpen. It was full of liquid manure to a depth of maybe 6 inches, maybe more...mixed with the local mud, of course. There was a shovel leaning against the fence. My heart sank. However, if Greg had told me to walk across the Colorado River during spring flood, I would probably have given it an attempt.

I took a deep breath and said, "Is there a bucket somewhere I could use?"

Greg looked back at me, completely without expression for a few seconds, then his eyes crinkled up and he started laughing. "Never mind," he said. "I was just testing you. I wanted to see how willing you were. Why not just get yourself a coffee instead, and I'll show you some interesting plants over here that you can use for healing."

Greg was about the best man I have ever known.

Major thread creep, eh?

Okay, so back to the subject...it is funny to think of Rodney King asking for mutual understanding...if you investigate into his own personal behaviour toward others prior to and leading up to his spectacular encounter with the L.A.P.D. I imagine that Rodney was told (by his lawyer and handlers) EXACTLY what to say in front of the microphones that day. He was not what you would call a gentle and accomodating soul most of the time. So I think I get the joke, all right.

We all get heated now and then on certain subjects. I think the important thing is not to start personally denigrating someone you disagree with by calling them words like "scumbag", "stupid", "anti-Semite", "moron", "fascist", or whatever. You can make strong statements about a subject of discussion, but you shouldn't personally abuse people, just cos they see that subject from a different angle. After all, they have been through a different life experience than you have, and that shapes how they see things. For example, you might feel that a specific governmental policy is fascist or communist, but you should not therefore call anyone who happens to support that policy a "fascist" or a "communist". They may have any number of reasons for supporting it that you are simply not aware of, depending on their own background.

Subject: RE: a way for us all to 'just get along'
From: CarolC
Date: 07 Nov 00 - 09:39 AM

CarolC is my actual first name, and the first initial of my last name. It is not a pseudonym. It is an abbreviation of my real name. When people use pseudonyms as their regular screen names, or as a guest name that represents them in the same way as a screen name does, I don't feel that this is counterproductive or damaging.

When people use pseudonyms as a way to hide their identity in order to engage in behavior that is counterproductive or damaging, then in that case (in my opinion) the use of the pseudonym is also counterproductive and damaging.

In my opinion, threads that exist for the purpose of stirring up negative emotions in the forum, or for the purpose of manipulating people or jerking their chains, are counterproductive and damaging.

Subject: RE: a way for us all to 'just get along'
From: GUEST,Phantom Lurker
Date: 07 Nov 00 - 09:20 AM

You said, "I personally think that using pseudonyms as you have is counterproductive and damaging". According to the way I use the word "pseudonym" the following are pseudonyms: CarolC, Rodney King Jr., Phantom Lurker. Why is using "Rodney King Jr." counterproductive and damaging but using "CarolC" not? What do you mean by "pseudonym"?

Subject: RE: a way for us all to 'just get along'
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 07 Nov 00 - 09:09 AM

Yes, I was puzzled by that referecne to an honouyrable and necessary work force'

"We are the shit shovellers shovelling shit on the shit parade"

That's from a genuine army song, which I posted recently, mentioning a genuine army duty, making and maintaining latrines. A vital labour force, not to be disparaged.

Subject: RE: a way for us all to 'just get along'
From: CarolC
Date: 07 Nov 00 - 08:56 AM

Guest R.K.Jr.,

Well, as you probably know, I personally think that using pseudonyms as you have is counterproductive and damaging.

However, that aside, I don't have a problem with the basic gist of what you are saying. But the tone sounds suspicious to me.

In particular your last line. In that line you advocate for the very thing you profess to be discouraging...

"Oh that will make the shit shovelers so mad?"

I what way is that line not an attempt to stir things up?

Subject: RE: a way for us all to 'just get along'
From: GUEST,Joerg
Date: 06 Nov 00 - 10:01 PM

I didn't mean to point that out, WW, but of course you're also right - at least as far as I know from the opposite point of view.

Joerg

Subject: RE: a way for us all to 'just get along'
From: WyoWoman
Date: 06 Nov 00 - 09:52 PM

The connection between good music and good sex isn't all that tenuous, actually. It's probably why some of us keep falling for musicians ...

ww

Subject: RE: a way for us all to 'just get along'
From: GUEST,Joerg
Date: 06 Nov 00 - 09:22 PM

Good on you, Mrrzy and McGrath (far above there, sorry for again being so late).

Being able to disagree without having to fight is the key to what I call "real love" in my own head.

It's also the key to good music, i.e. the experience of doing it well with the help of someone else. And (funny) in some very similar manner it's also the key to experience really good sex. (I have to run for cover now, but I am doing it with the conscience of not being that wrong. Am I?)

Joerg

Subject: RE: a way for us all to 'just get along'
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 06 Nov 00 - 05:20 PM

Seemed quite a sensible suggestion to me. Not coat-trailing or anything liek that, no rerason to have been put in pseudonymously really. It's what tends to happen anyway without setting out to do it. You find yourself on the same side as someone you've been having a battle with. And vice versa.

And that doesn't just happen with music threads - it happens with all kinds of disputes. For example, just because you're in agreement with someone about some politician being a creep, that doesn't mean you'll agree about the merits of Israeli crowd control methods, for example. Or the rights and wrongs and facts of history. Not to mention Vegemite and so forth. Or split infinitives...Let alone "what is folk?" (Oh no! ...)

Subject: RE: a way for us all to 'just get along'
From: Kim C
Date: 06 Nov 00 - 04:42 PM

One good way for people to get along is to mind their own business. (No, that is not directed at anyone, it's simpy an observation.) :)

Subject: RE: a way for us all to 'just get along'
From: KingBrilliant
Date: 06 Nov 00 - 12:23 PM

Oh my gawd. Sometimes its just all beyond me.... (probably a good thing)

Kris

Subject: RE: a way for us all to 'just get along'
From: GUEST,harp
Date: 05 Nov 00 - 12:41 PM

...this opinion does seem serious and I have a guess as to whom it might be, or a wish anyway... but it certainly isn't me and some people might think it is...I swear on the deathbed of my next suicide/aids patient...if it were Max's opinion would it be okay? just asking....notme... harp

Subject: RE: a way for us all to 'just get along'
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 05 Nov 00 - 12:39 PM

thanks spaw, it makes sense now and I do seem to recall hearing something about the case.

Jon

Subject: RE: a way for us all to 'just get along'
From: catspaw49
Date: 05 Nov 00 - 12:27 PM

Hi Jon.....A few years back in Los Angeles, you may reacll the police stopping a man who resisted arrest and using some brutal methods to subdue him. His name was Rodney King and the whole thing was caught on videotape. It was a big news story lasting several years and at one point riots broke out after a verdict exonerrating the police. King made a statement about then saying, "Can't we all just get along."

Spaw

Subject: RE: a way for us all to 'just get along'
From: Matt_R
Date: 05 Nov 00 - 12:15 PM

Jon---SIGH!!!! That's what happens when you don't have TV!

;-)

Subject: RE: a way for us all to 'just get along'
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 05 Nov 00 - 12:11 PM

Perhaps someone would care to explain the joke name to me. It means nothing to me.

Jon

Subject: RE: a way for us all to 'just get along'
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Nov 00 - 11:49 AM

Oh why bother?

The reason I used a joke name Carol C. was to not get into a mud slinging contest with those who couldn't take my suggestion at face value. It was obviously not a flame - read it again, if you care. At times I've gotten heated on other threads and felt bad about it afterwards. I was just trying to remind us of an obvious option. I meant no harm, and I don't want Mudcat to be anything but what it is. I DON'T enjoy the arguements. Some do. My apologies.

Subject: RE: a way for us all to 'just get along'
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 05 Nov 00 - 09:50 AM

That was quite civil enough for me. (It's not the people whose music I don't like, it's the ones who don't like my music, without knowing what it is. I think you come up against that at times, Matt...

Subject: RE: a way for us all to 'just get along'
From: Matt_R
Date: 04 Nov 00 - 09:51 PM

Yeah, so GET OFF MY BACK!!!!

;-)

Subject: RE: a way for us all to 'just get along'
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 04 Nov 00 - 08:13 PM

- but probably not Mudcatters! Well, not many of them.

Subject: RE: a way for us all to 'just get along'
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 04 Nov 00 - 08:12 PM

It can go the other way. There's people I can talk to about politics, but if the talk turned to music I'd find it hard to keep civil.

Subject: RE: a way for us all to 'just get along'
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 04 Nov 00 - 05:45 PM

Doesn't seem like bad advice at all to me. There's lots of folks that I'd have trouble tolerating on a political basis, that I get along just fine with, when we're talkin' music.

Rick

Subject: RE: a way for us all to 'just get along'
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 04 Nov 00 - 05:19 PM

Civilised but spirited disagreements are the life blood of any get-together. Good on you Mrrzy

I think music is a good analogy. If you're playing tunes in a session, you don't want a cautious sustained unison in which you are all paying the same notes at the same time - what you want is to have a sort of dispute going on between the different instruments, and the different variations on the tune they are playing, or even about what tune that should be at any time. But underlying this there is an agreement about what the rules of the game are. And when that breaks down, it's the death of a session.

And it isn't just that music is a good analogy - I think that the fact that most of us have had that kind of experience is a major reason why we can get along as well as we do, on the whole.

And the basic rule here has to be respect for each other, together with a resistance to interpreting what anyone else says in a hostile way. And the second rule, is keep your sense of humour and refuse to be easily offended.

Subject: RE: a way for us all to 'just get along'
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 04 Nov 00 - 04:32 PM

We-e-ellllll, THAT may be going pretty far, Mrrzy, but I guess if you can stand us, we can stand you!

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: a way for us all to 'just get along'
From: Mrrzy
Date: 04 Nov 00 - 04:00 PM

There is a difference between Getting Along, and Agreeing. Yes it would be boring if everyone agreed on everything. But it WOULD be nice if we could disagree and not fight. THAT is MY definition of Getting Along, and I'm all for it. That means I can like bluegrass and still be a member here!

Subject: RE: a way for us all to 'just get along'
From: Big Mick
Date: 04 Nov 00 - 03:57 PM

Back again, eh? What is funny is that everyone knows who you are. Enjoy yourself and keep hoping the Mudcat will be what you want instead of what it is. Does shovelling shit against the tide ring for you?

Mick

Subject: RE: a way for us all to 'just get along'
From: nutty
Date: 04 Nov 00 - 10:14 AM

A friend of mine says " growing old is inevitable - growing up is optional " It seems that some people just don't want to grow up

Subject: RE: a way for us all to 'just get along'
From: M. Ted (inactive)
Date: 04 Nov 00 - 03:39 AM

That really was Rodney King, Jr--he missed the link to the DUI thread--

Subject: RE: a way for us all to 'just get along'
From: GUEST,khandu
Date: 04 Nov 00 - 12:56 AM

"Iron sharpens iron." If we all sought to "just get long" what a boring, stagnant bunch we would all become. It has been the grinding in life that has helped to form me into the person that I am. A lot of the grindings have been painful, but in them, I have learned a lot of lessons. One of the biggest lessons has been that I can be as much of an ass as anyone. In that, I have learned to be less judgemental of other asses. After all, if someone as nice as I am can be an ass, then surely, I can allow others to be asses also. :D

I got the Rodney King joke, by the way.

Subject: RE: a way for us all to 'just get along'
From: bbelle
Date: 04 Nov 00 - 12:42 AM

Carol ... you silly goose! You know the reason people post under a pseudonym is because they're gutless wonders.

Jenny

Subject: RE: a way for us all to 'just get along'
From: CarolC
Date: 04 Nov 00 - 12:21 AM

Any particular reason you felt the need to post under a pseudonym?

Subject: RE: a way for us all to 'just get along'
From: little john cameron
Date: 03 Nov 00 - 11:52 PM

Jings Rodney, it wid be awfy borin tae go aboot agreein wi awbody.Ye never know ye micht change somebodies mind an then agaim they mich chance yours.Nae body is forcin oneybody tae get "sucked" in.Some o these daft threeds can be very interestin.Ah've been playin music for 40yrs but it.s nice tae hae a wee brek noo an again. ljc

Subject: a way for us all to 'just get along'
From: GUEST,Rodney King jr.
Date: 03 Nov 00 - 11:37 PM

Are you feeling a little sheepish because you got sucked into one of those 'total shit disturbing threads' about abortions and Holy Penises and the like?

Or maybe you said a few things in threads about Nader, Irish politics, American politics, Jewish or Arab history, or even ones about 'Writing folk songs' that are so over the top that people get 'demonised' just for having opinions.

I have a suggestion. Everyone here is interested in MUSIC. Hunt that person down that you're starting to hate, find them in a music thread and start talking to them about MUSIC! We are here for the things we have in common, not for our differences.

Oh that will make the shit shovelers so mad!