BS: A new CD, What do we do next??

Subject: RE: BS: A new CD, What do we do next??
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 02 Mar 02 - 01:22 PM

A few more miscellaneous thoughts. These are just personal preferences of mine—I don't know if they will help you sell more copies, but this is what I like to see on an album cover:

1. The title of the album (if it has one) should be somehow easy to distinguish from the name of your band. I am always annoyed, in a record store, when I pick up a CD by a band I have never heard of, and find that I can't tell which is which! (This may not be a problem if you only sell at gigs, but you never know.)
2. There should be some description of what type of music you play. Even a vague not-quite-accurate classification is better than nothing. It's amazing how many CD's are made with NO indication of what type of music it is. Jazz, classical, rock? I guess they assume you're already familiar with the band before you even consider buying the CD, but this isn't always the case.
3. It should identify what kind of instruments you play, especially if you play something unusual. Some people will buy all the CD's they can find that feature a certain unusual instrument. One way to do this is to show a picture of all your instruments. It could also solve the problem of what kind of graphics to use.
4. It should list all your cuts, by title, and indicate whether each one is traditional, original, or written by someone else. If traditional, it should indicate what ethnic type: Irish, American, Cajun, etc. (unless all the cuts are the same—then the info can go in the heading—see item #2). It should also indicate whether it is a song or a tune. (Some people favor one more than the other.)
5. Be sure it tells how to contact you.
6. Timing is not important to me, but it seems to be important to some people. Radio stations want to know the length of each cut, and some customers want to know the total length of the album. (It amazes me, but I have known people to ask.)
7. PROOFREAD! PROOFREAD! PROOFREAD! Then give your copy to the most critical anal-retentive person you know and have them proofread it for you. But don't expect them to be familiar with the spelling of every personal name, every place name, and every foreign word. Look these up yourself.

Subject: RE: BS: A new CD, What do we do next??
From: katlaughing
Date: 02 Mar 02 - 11:24 AM

Great, I brag about the damn site and some of its pages have been "being worked on" since last night. First time I've seen that, so I hope it is just a fluke.

Subject: RE: BS: A new CD, What do we do next??
From: InOBU
Date: 02 Mar 02 - 10:59 AM

Hi Don... while you are trying to decide, check out the win a Sorcha Dorcha CD post, and enter the contest... (you already won one...) So enter the contest and PM me, and just between the two of us, a bit of patronage at work with the judges here... ya won one.... Cheers Larry

Subject: RE: BS: A new CD, What do we do next??
From: katlaughing
Date: 02 Mar 02 - 03:00 AM

I want one, Don, how much and where do I send the money?

That goes for you, too, Chance, when you get yours done!

One artist's promotional site I can recommend, as hesperis did to me, is www.iuma. It is free, one just has to be "approved" and they have prepackaged webpages you can choose from and fill out, upload your samples, for free, and there is your promotional site. You can also sell your own provided cds on there. Check out IUMA...here's what I did for my brother, in one afternoon: original classical music.

Subject: RE: BS: A new CD, What do we do next??
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 02 Mar 02 - 02:06 AM

I agree with everything that's been said here (except that there are some areas that I have no experience with, such as on-line marketing, so I can't comment on that).

I agree that your most successful sales will probably be at your own gigs. We (my wife and I – She's the musician in the family; I'm just the co-investor.) have found other methods disappointing. There are a few local record stores that have sold a few CD's on consignment, but so few that it was hardly worth the effort. Likewise, a few local Irish gift shops have sold our CD's, one gift shop at a historical site, etc.

The bright side is the gigs. The CD's will help you get gigs, and the gigs will help you sell CD's. Even some gigs that you might turn down because the pay is too low or nonexistent—like coffeehouses—might be worthwhile for the opportunity to sell CD's. It sometimes happens that the band makes more money in CD sales than they get paid outright for performing.

The downside is you have to keep looking for new venues. My wife had a regular gig at a coffeehouse once a month for a couple of years. CD sales were great at first but tapered off to practically nothing. I figure the market got saturated. They had regular fans who kept coming back to hear them again and again, but no matter how much they like you, most of them won't buy more than one copy of your CD. They ended up quitting that gig, although the manager would have been happy to have them keep coming back.

(There's a lot of benefit, especially to a beginner, in having a regular gig like this, even if it's low-paying. I figure that playing at a familiar venue over and over, to an audience many of whom are repeat customers, is a great way to learn to feel relaxed in front of an audience. It helps you develop your "stage presence." But to keep selling CD's you've got to keep exposing yourself to new audiences. If you feel under pressure to make back your original investment, you may find it necessary to give up comfortable gigs like this.)

Keep in mind the MARGINAL cost of your CD's. Say you have ordered a thousand CD's. Find out from the manufacturer what it will cost if you come back later and order ANOTHER batch of a thousand. (This should be cheaper than your first thousand, and at any rate, it won't include your studio costs, the cost of original artwork, etc.) Divide by 1000 to get your MARGINAL COST per CD. Let's say it's $1.50. (I don't know if this is realistic.) That means $1.50 is what it costs you to GIVE AWAY a CD. With that in mind, it's a lot easier to be generous with promotional copies, than if you think they're worth $15.00 (or whatever your selling price is). The moral is, it doesn't pay to be stingy with promotional copies. If giving away a CD will help you land a $500 gig, you shouldn't even hesitate.

Another nice thing you can do with CD's is to swap them with other musicians. It's a cheap way to add to your collection.

Subject: RE: BS: A new CD, What do we do next??
From: khandu
Date: 01 Mar 02 - 09:58 PM

The cover is important, I have bought many recordings with no knowledge of the music within because of the cover. If the cover is unique and creative, showing a certain "flair", I assume that the music will be also. (Howbeit, I have been wrong many times! You can't judge a recording by it's cover. ;D

Think of the cover as your easel. It is yours to do what you will. Dare to be boldly original. Let the artistry that created the music shine in the creation of the cover!

khandu

Subject: RE: BS: A new CD, What do we do next??
From: michaelr
Date: 01 Mar 02 - 09:45 PM

Don - two sites that I use are efolk.com and CDstreet.com, both online "stores" where I have pages, for minimal sign-up fees. There the public can see your CD covers and click to buy them. The trick to success (absent major airplay) is to promote the hell out of your website at your gigs, and link it to those "store" pages, so that it's easy for buyers to get around.

It's also a good idea to let browsers hear soundbites (maybe 20-30 seconds) of the songs; but it's not a good idea to have complete mp3s for download.

All these are things I have been working on for my band. It's a continuing process. Unfortunately the marketing of music is a lot less fun than the making of it!

Good luck, and I'd love to hear your CD.
Michael

Subject: RE: BS: A new CD, What do we do next??
From: DonMeixner
Date: 01 Mar 02 - 07:57 PM

WEll, its done. And I am pretty well pleased. Hard work and then some but we think the effort ewas worth it and it shows.

Anyone who ever had the desire to record should. I'm glad I did.

Don

Subject: RE: BS: A new CD, What do we do next??
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 10 Feb 02 - 11:57 PM

An interesting marketing idea is CDBABY (cdbaby.com). I don't know how they do it, or how successful they are, but they specialize in CDs by newbies. I suspect that they accept CDs on consignment, and have a reasonably high mark-up, but even then, this type of operation requires a tremendous amount of storage space and a lot of constant website updating. I wish 'em luck.

Subject: RE: BS: A new CD, What do we do next??
From: wysiwyg
Date: 10 Feb 02 - 02:39 PM

Oh yeah-- and don't forget to send Mike Miller one to review... see thread "Independent Recordings Revued" for details, or the link to that thread in the Mudcatters CD thread.

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: A new CD, What do we do next??
From: SeanM
Date: 10 Feb 02 - 01:50 PM

Given that currently the band I'm with is in final mixing for the CD, I hope I can share some experience that may help...

For the packaging... first, something GREAT that was shared by a member from his experience in design and sales: Take your alternate designs. Stand back 5-10 feet. Look at them.

Which one stands out? Which one conveys what you want to at that range? Is it a blob of color? Is it a distinct image? Does that image say what you need it to? Don't be afraid to show it to others, giving them that 'first time' view at range. That'll be how people see it in music stores, that'll be how people see it on tables at festivals, and people generally won't take a second glance at an unfamiliar product if they can't make some sort of connection with it quickly and from a distance when they first see it.

For the 'notes'... That's more of a personal decision. I guess that the basics will always be track listings, writing credits, copyright info and whatever other requirements your band personally has. Beyond that, remember that a singlefold is MUCH cheaper than multi page or multifold. If you don't need to use the interior of the fold, you can probably get away with a decent 4 color screen across one surface, folded to give both front cover and interior track listings. Anything else added would be a personal decision, and would also bear the attendant extra costs.

As to finances... I won't even attempt to suggest on that one. There are GREAT books and resources on the tax necessities of a small band, and it does vary from country to state to county to sometimes even city. Maybe even spring for a consultation with an accountant just to see if you need one. If he/she is a good accountant, they'll tell you what is needed, and how much of a benefit they can be for you. But DO make sure you do your research.

Best of luck, sir. And I'll also echo the tape idea - they don't really sell any more. I'm on the lower end of the American financial spectrum, and *I* barely use cassettes any more - the only ones I still use are compilations for driving, made from CDs at home. If you get enough interest to justify a print run, great. But I doubt you will.

Hope this is of use...

M

Subject: RE: BS: A new CD, What do we do next??
From: Bill D
Date: 10 Feb 02 - 11:27 AM

for the narrow focus of the folk/acoustic world, what I like to to see is a web site..(whether by the artist or the promoter/manager) with some sample cuts (even partial cuts...one verse)...in MP3- and a list of songs and general description of 'style'. I have seen this done various ways, and will see if I can find some examples.

Then such sites could be mentioned here, in rec.music.folk...etc....(I don't want to be inundated with sales pitches, but a permathread with lists of stuff available by members would be quite uesful...we are 'close' to that now with 'who's performing where)

This would not make you rich, but exposure has to start somewhere.

Subject: RE: BS: A new CD, What do we do next??
From: Susan of DT
Date: 10 Feb 02 - 10:32 AM

(from dick grenhaus)

Well, CAMSCO's experience is that tapes don't sell. CDs made by "unknowns" tend to sell only at concerts and festivals at which the artists are performing.

In most cases, these CDs are best viewed as a cash income adjunct to the performers' fees. It's a sad situation, but people don't tend to buy CDs of people they haven't heard. DJs can help, but most DJs are flooded with promotional CDs, and an unknown's chances of getting airplay are slim to none.

Subject: RE: BS: A new CD, What do we do next??
From: wysiwyg
Date: 10 Feb 02 - 10:19 AM

Don, I am NOT tyring to give you a hard time-- but really asking--

Wouldn't it make sense to have an overall plan before making the CD? I mean, wouldn't the marketing approach tend to have something to do with how it's put together? And would that give the band a boost to know that once the CD is done there is a plan for what to do with it?

Do people who've done this over time tend to go "planless" for the first one and then get more organized with subsequent projects? Or is it more usual that the CD itself is the main focus?

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: A new CD, What do we do next??
From: DonMeixner
Date: 10 Feb 02 - 09:49 AM

Good morning Chance,

The financial aspects are what can be the most daunting when dealing with a band personality. (Listen to me, we have one about half done and I'm making soundslike a vet.) The cost of the job for us was known quantity up front.

WE all agreed tat now was the time for the recording or we never would do it. We agreed upfront that the next several band jobs would pay for the project minus travel expenses to gigs. We are each ointo it for equal costs and we all agreed to enjoy the process how ever it went. That may sound a little silly but it was great fun along with the hard work.

Not a single fight. The biggest contention is the picture on the cover. And I think this is very important. Should it be the band or a generic picture of Ireland with the name of the band and the title. I think the band picture myself but I may be losing this one.

WE ARE EXTREMELY LUCKY! The man who engineered our job is Ron Keck at Sub-Cat Studio in Skaneateles, NY and he wouldn't let us go without anything less than great sound. He also flat rated the job up front. ( I think he lost his shirt here but there are construction upgrades and barters going on so he is more than pleased with the arrangement). He gave use copies at stages along the way and said to get opions from anyone. He also said to listen to it on every type of player we could find from a CD clock radio up to a large home stereo. He said to take notes and be critical which we did and he considered evry single one of them. I think the care shows in the final mix.

Right now we are discussing the price of the thing.

Thanks Chance I'm good for one of yours when it's done too.

Don

Subject: RE: BS: A new CD, What do we do next??
From: Fortunato
Date: 10 Feb 02 - 08:41 AM

Don, I am asking questions about marketing and label vs. independent in a current thread and have got a few good responses, you might want to look at it. By the way, congratulations. We're early on in the process and I know how much work it takes. You've asked interesting questions. Maybe Sandy Paton or the Dick Greenhaus could tell us about tape sales. It occurs to me that some folks have CD players in the house but not in the car, maybe, or the other way around. One the finances. I saw that beocme a problem for a band. Their arrangement was sketchy and ill feelings and misunderstandings resulted. I'll be watching your thread with interest, and GOOD LUCK. Let us know when and where your cd is available I'm good for a copy. Regards, Chance

Subject: A new CD, What do we do next??
From: DonMeixner
Date: 10 Feb 02 - 02:03 AM

Can't sleep, the adrenaline is up and flowing.

Well I walked out of the studio today with the Master Disk for "FINALLY!", The Flyin' Columns first ever recording. (We've been together for 30 years. Why did we wait??) It sounds just great to me but ofcourse I'm very prejudiced. Great mix of tunes in a good order. Some originals and some trads.

Tomorrow I create the cover. What goes on it besides a picture of the band and a list of songs and publishers?

This is a CD. Do we produce any tapes for the people who have no CD players? Is it a smart fiscal move? If so how many? We are having a thousand CD made.

Selling it is the next thing. Assuming it sells and we turn a profit. The big worry is once we have paid for it, what do you do with the money? How is it reported? Do we create an operating fund? Do we give out quarterly checks based on sales? Use the money to buy new equipment?

Any advice from the pro's is welcome and appreciated. Hell, any advice and ideas from anyone is well come and appreciated.

Don