BS: son of UNWELCOME GUEST

Subject: RE: BS: son of UNWELCOME GUEST
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Feb 02 - 08:36 PM

Nope, the thread is gone--vaporized by the Mudcat censors.

Subject: RE: BS: son of UNWELCOME GUEST
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Feb 02 - 08:18 PM

I tried to give you your very own welcome thread greg stephens. I titled it "Not the Usual Welcome to a New Member". But then again, Max and his goons are a bit delete happy with us anon guests this week, so it may not last long. Looks already like we share some tastes in music as well as opinions. Hope we both survive the war.

Subject: RE: BS: son of UNWELCOME GUEST
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Feb 02 - 07:32 PM

Right you are there other guest. After abusing power by doing things like censoring posts that are critical of them, the next step is always locking people out.

Since Max has already said he intends to change the log-in to deal with the likes of dangerous posters like us, it won't be long until the place becomes one big playpen for the flame warrior children.

Subject: RE: BS: son of UNWELCOME GUEST
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Feb 02 - 07:22 PM

Well we all know what to do, come the 'change'

If people are pissed with flaming now...

Subject: RE: BS: son of UNWELCOME GUEST
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Feb 02 - 07:17 PM

Well other guest, maybe we're the real problem with Mudcat because we anonymously contribute to music threads like "Arabic Influence on Renaissance Music" and "English Folk: Harmony Singing" instead of making worthwhile contributions to the BS threads on cat flatulence and chest hair.

Subject: RE: BS: son of UNWELCOME GUEST
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Feb 02 - 07:00 PM

Thanks SharonA, but I don't need you to tell me how spiteful Max is--he already deleted one of my messages to this thread today, wherein I responded to greg stephen's 2:59 post--so to our newest member I can only say, you are forewarned. If you criticize Max, you WILL pay a price.

Nothing spiteful there.

The post about moderators abusing their power being a sign of a dying message board is certainly holding true around here. With all the examples being cited of well run message boards, this one just keeps paling in comparison.

Subject: RE: BS: son of UNWELCOME GUEST
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Feb 02 - 06:57 PM

Thank you Sharon. It all makes sense now.

Everything that is bad in this forum is down to me (amazed that I had such power, frankly)

GUEST

Subject: RE: BS: son of UNWELCOME GUEST
From: artbrooks
Date: 12 Feb 02 - 06:44 PM

Hey, Sharon, you want to join the "give up responding in kind to trolls and flamers for Lent" group?

Greg, I'm another who uses his real name here. In addition, I'm in Albuquerque and in the phone book if anybody wants to validate my existence. Welcome to Mudcat...sometimes it takes a while to feel comfortable here, but it looks as if you've jumped right in.

Subject: RE: son of UNWELCOME GUEST
From: SharonA
Date: 12 Feb 02 - 04:05 PM

"GUEST 12-Feb-02 - 02:46 PM": Your assertion that there is a "perception that guests are the problem in Mudcat, rather than jerks" and that it "is one fostered and sustained by Max himself" is disproven by the post by Max that I quoted just before you responded to me – the one that says, "It's not even about GUESTS, it is about common decency, members and GUESTS alike."

The post by Max in his thread "An Open Letter from Max to GUESTS", that you refer to, is here: Post from Max, 10-Feb-02 - 05:46 PM

Now let's put the word "fuckhead" in context. What he said was, "God, you fuckhead GUESTS don't even bother reading things carefully before you start spitting bile. My post started with a very polite and humble request to chill out. I'm not surprised by your disdain to this idea, only those with something to lose would be opposed to accountability." The word "accountability" is key here because, as Max said in the post I quoted earlier on this thread, the members are accountable for their rudeness and they are contacted privately by the site administration, without perpetuating the public attacks. But the goal of the flaming GUESTs seems to be to perpetuate the public attacks ad infinitum without being held accountable for their actions.

As to your assertion that he called you "fuckheads" just because you criticized him, he also said in that post, "There is a difference between criticism and spite."

No, GUEST, Max called you "fuckheads" because, as he said in the same post, "I've been the biggest supporter of the open forum, and stood up for anonymity above all others. Turn it around any which way you want, but the fact stands that you fucked that up."

So there you go (perhaps literally, in the near future).

Subject: RE: BS: son of UNWELCOME GUEST
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 12 Feb 02 - 03:53 PM

Quite a lot of people prefer to use real names, as I do. That way you recognise friends quicker.

People using nicknames seem to divide into those who do it just for fun and those who are apprehensive about being attacked by the cookie monster.

Every now and then the Mudcat erupts into silliness, and you've stepped in just at that point. It'll calm down. In the meantime the threads related to music are still chugging along, and that's where the important stuff is happening.

If your infernal machine allows you to click on links, I suggest you click on this one and explore some of the great threads that have taken place. (A "thread" being a collection of messages - called "posts" - such as this one we are in at present. But often about really interesting stuff.

Subject: RE: son of UNWELCOME GUEST
From: RichM
Date: 12 Feb 02 - 03:16 PM

Welcome, Greg Stephens. Enjoy Mudville. Lots of good musical knowledge and experience to share, here.

Rich McCarthy

Subject: RE: son of UNWELCOME GUEST
From: greg stephens
Date: 12 Feb 02 - 02:59 PM

well im not sure joining was a great idea maybe i should leave, maybe its more fun being a guest and getting attacked by this strange mad max character whoever he is. trouble is it took me a while to figure out how to join and i havent a clue how to leave so i guess i'll just have to stay. bu i do feel a bit exposed using my real name,all you good buddies seem to have handles. it didnt say in the rules you have to have a nickname,have i made a mistake?

greg

Subject: RE: son of UNWELCOME GUEST
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Feb 02 - 02:46 PM

Right SharonA, but Max, in another POST within the past 24-48 hours, also referred to me and another guest contributing to his "Open Letter to GUESTS" thread as--and I quote--"fuckheads" for criticizing him and the way he was running the forum.

So there you have it. I think greg stephens hit the nail exactly on the head. The perception that guests are the problem in Mudcat, rather than jerks, is one fostered and sustained by Max himself. Who in your above quote proves himself as being biased against his own guests with the comment "the fact of the matter is that a lot (not all) of GUEST posts are rude, pointless, attacking and childish." He makes that claim, with no way of substantiating it. Which makes it IN HIS OPINION, not a fact at all.

Until someone presents the fact--ie that out of 186,000 posts, ___% from anon guests and __% from members were deemed to be flames by a third party with no interest in proving the "fact" one way or the other, I remain unconvinced that guests are the problem here, rather than people who are jerks, whether members or guests.

Subject: RE: son of UNWELCOME GUEST
From: SharonA
Date: 12 Feb 02 - 02:35 PM

To greg stephens: Welcome to the Mudcat membership, such as it is. Sorry about doubting your identity on your previous thread but, gee whiz, when you introduced yourself in the thread title as an "unwelcome guest" and started out by making a statement remarkably similar to those of the flamers and trolls around here (namely, "the site is full of people who hate GUESTS"), and cracking wise about our fellow-member McGrath (whom no one could guess that you know personally)... well, whatja expect? :^) Anyway, I asked you to correct me if I was wrong about your identity, and you seem to have done so by becoming a member, which involves identifying oneself to the site administration. Thanks.

As far as "writing letters saying guests shouldn't be allowed now", let me copy-and-paste a post that Max (this site's administrator) made to another GUEST in your previous thread, that you may not be able to see there:

"....I don't even mind GUESTs when they have something useful to say. It's not even about GUESTS, it is about common decency, members and GUESTS alike. You can argue like a 4 year old all you want, GUEST, but the fact of the matter is that a lot (not all) of GUEST posts are rude, pointless, attacking and childish. As I mentioned before, when a member posts like this, I can send them a PM [Private Message], which I do frequently. " So the answer to your question is that if you post something about GUESTS not being "allowed", make sure it's not a rude, pointless, attacking or childish post, that's all. Expressing an opinion in a responsible, adult manner is perfectly acceptable.

Enjoy the 'Cat!

Sharon

Subject: RE: son of UNWELCOME GUEST
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Feb 02 - 01:50 PM

Yes dave, it proves that bullying some people actually works. *****VBG*****

anon and proud

Subject: RE: son of UNWELCOME GUEST
From: wildlone
Date: 12 Feb 02 - 01:47 PM

Would you believe it, No sooner has a guest popped his head up he goes and spoils all the fun by joining,
****BG**** dave

Subject: RE: son of UNWELCOME GUEST
From: wysiwyg
Date: 12 Feb 02 - 01:46 PM

Greg, what kind of music do you like? Welcome to Mudcat.

~S~

Subject: RE: son of UNWELCOME GUEST
From: Little Hawk
Date: 12 Feb 02 - 01:40 PM

It's very easy to join Mudcat...I did so, after a day or two as a guest here, since I was being accused by one or two members of being a "troll" (they obviously did not comprehend my sense of humour or my philosophy).

At the time, I was so completely inexperienced in online forums, etc., that I didn't even know what the word "troll" meant...I thought it meant a mythical monster found roaming the hinterlands in adult fantasy novels or lurking under bridges waiting for billy goats.

Anyway, I thought "Enough of this nonsense, I'll just become a member", and I have been ever since...

- LH

Subject: RE: son of UNWELCOME GUEST
From: Mickey191
Date: 12 Feb 02 - 01:24 PM

Greg, I too have webtv, but I've not encountered a long thread being cut off. It must be very frustrating. The cookie thing is easy to do-then you will lose the guest tag. Every once in a while, I'm back as a guest, then I get my cookie reset and all is well. Good Luck.

Subject: RE: son of UNWELCOME GUEST
From: greg stephens
Date: 12 Feb 02 - 01:19 PM

wow its worked. im a member!!! yippeee! can i start writing letters saying guests shouldnt be allowed now?

Subject: RE: son of UNWELCOME GUEST
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Feb 02 - 01:18 PM

You managed to make it beyond the guest swamp that time greg. Good on ya. Keep typing, and ignore ludicrous complaints about shift keys.

Subject: RE: son of UNWELCOME GUEST
From: greg stephens
Date: 12 Feb 02 - 01:13 PM

well that hasnt worked. am i just stupid? i think cable tv isnt totally compatible with thissor of thing but im getting there

Subject: RE: son of UNWELCOME GUEST
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Feb 02 - 01:09 PM

ive been trying to join, i wonder if ive succeeded. i suppose if i have it wont say "guest" any more. lets see

Subject: RE: son of UNWELCOME GUEST
From: GUEST,greg stephens
Date: 12 Feb 02 - 01:07 PM

ive just tried joining, i wonder if that means it wont say "guest" any more?

Subject: RE: son of UNWELCOME GUEST
From: GUEST,JenniC
Date: 12 Feb 02 - 12:53 PM

Sorry you can't read all the replies to you, you have set off a lot of talking. As far as I am concerned you are very, very welcome as is anyone who wants to talk about the wonderful music in the world. And if you are not very clever with your shift key, please don't worry. It's no big deal

Subject: RE: son of UNWELCOME GUEST
From: DougR
Date: 12 Feb 02 - 12:18 PM

It sounds to me as though you have a WebTV, Greg, and they may not have the capacity that a computer has.

DougR

Subject: RE: son of UNWELCOME GUEST
From: GUEST,greg stephens
Date: 12 Feb 02 - 11:58 AM

come on guys how would i know if im using a pace dsl box. in my world a box is either an accordion, a guitar or possibly something to put things in. i just have a tv set and a keyboard (with or without a shift key) to point at it greg ps i forgot, i know what a DI box is, i dont want people thinking im some kind of peasant

Subject: RE: son of UNWELCOME GUEST
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Feb 02 - 11:54 AM

But John did say something stupid!

Subject: RE: son of UNWELCOME GUEST
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 12 Feb 02 - 11:50 AM

Carol did not even post to the thread!

Subject: RE: son of UNWELCOME GUEST
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 12 Feb 02 - 11:39 AM

greg-Are you using a Pace DSL box?

Subject: RE: son of UNWELCOME GUEST
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Feb 02 - 11:38 AM

McGrath said you were his friend, Carol said you were a fraud, John in Hull said something stupid.

Usual stuff for the 'premier folk music site'

Subject: son of UNWELCOME GUEST
From: GUEST,greg stephens
Date: 12 Feb 02 - 11:33 AM

thanks to all you kind people who replied to my UNWELCOME GUEST query. i read them all up to number 39 but then my ntl cabletv setup says the thread is too long?fat?full? for me to access. so what you are all writing now i cant read ,much as i would love to.perhaps anyone else with anything to say could put it here. sorry i dont know the right computer-speak happy pancakes to one and all greg