BS: Hillary for Veep???

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary for Veep???
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 05 May 04 - 01:10 PM

Well, that list from Blackcatter didn't add up to much, did it?

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary for Veep???
From: Blackcatter
Date: 05 May 04 - 01:07 PM

Well, of course - he's Irish.

Hillary is more of a cocktail girl to me.

I'll bet Nader drinks boilermakes when he's with his friends.

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary for Veep???
From: dianavan
Date: 05 May 04 - 01:05 PM

Whistle Stop - I think you may be right.

"In fact, if you look back at the last several Presidential elections in this country (going back as far as 1980, anyway), the guy who won was always the guy that the most people, given a choice, would prefer to have a beer with."

I guess that means Kerry will be the one. Can't imagine having a beer with any of the others, including Hillary. Nader might have a beer, if it were homemade and the water was pure. Bush probably can't mix alcohol with his drugs. Hillary probably drinks wine. Kerry? I can absolutely imagine him getting into his pints.

Sorry for the thread drift. :>)

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary for Veep???
From: DougR
Date: 05 May 04 - 12:48 PM

Those of you who are such strong admirers of Hillary might want to pick up (and read of course) Dick Morris' new book just out. I think the title is "Rewriting History" and represents his views of Hillary. As I'm sure most of you know, Dick Morris was one of Bill Clinton's major advisers and is credited with planning campaigns that saw Clinton elected Governor of Arkansas several times, and twice as president.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary for Veep???
From: Blackcatter
Date: 05 May 04 - 12:19 PM

f-off guest


more than 50% believe that of George W.

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary for Veep???
From: GUEST
Date: 05 May 04 - 12:16 PM

More than half of Americans believe she's a crook and a phony. If you want to make dead sure Kerry loses, put her on the ticket.

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary for Veep???
From: Blackcatter
Date: 05 May 04 - 12:05 PM

To castigate Hillary for "standing by her man" presupposes that you understand their relationship. That is just silly. Putting your opinions about what a relationship should be on their relationship is incorrect.

They could very well have an "open" relationship. Certainly that would have had to have been kept quiet, or their political dreams would have been impossible.

As for the fooling around of Bill - who's to say that Hillary hasn't done the same thing? She might just be more discrete. There have been rumours in the gay and lesbian community for years that she's bisexual. Put on top of that the possibility of a "political marriage" - Imagine, if you will, Hillary wishing to one day becoming president, but realizing that a woman would not be in the cards in her lifetime. She hooks up with Bill, in who she sees the potential. That may consititute one of the most remarkable partnerships of the 20th Century.

But slamming her when you don't really know the story is irresponible and embarrassing.

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary for Veep???
From: GUEST,Whistle Stop
Date: 05 May 04 - 11:36 AM

McGrath, as far as the Senator thing, you're right; establish residency, get the voters to back you, and you're in. Typically, complaints about "carpetbaggers" have a partisan tone; Republicans complain about Democrats from out of state, and Democrats complain about Republicans. But the rules are the rules, and I'm not aware of any non-partisan groundswell to change the rules across the board.

As for why people don't like Hillary, I think there are a lot of reasons. Some people resented how she was given (and assumed ) leadership on health care reform during the first Clinton term, even though she was not elected, and didn't go through any confirmation process (as Cabinet officers do). Some people resented the fact that she had used her maiden name after marriage; some resented her comments about how she "didn't stay home and bake cookies" after she got married (taking this as a slap at those women who chose to be homemakers and stay-at-home mothers). Fans of Tammy Wynette resented her flip reference to how she was not "some Tammy Wynette 'stand by your man' type". A lot of people, whether they will admit it or not, disliked the fact that she was a successful professional woman, and did not apologize for it. And all this took shape during some fairly profound shifts in public opinion towards the reactionary right (the rise of Newt Gingrich, the "Contract With America," Rush Limbaugh, etc.).

Beyond that, when you come right down to it, likability is subjective, and a lot of people just don't get a warm glow from Hillary. She does sometimes come off as cold, abrasive, and -- most of all -- phony. Why this is so is something of a mystery, but that is true about a lot of people; sometimes we just can't put into words what it is about a person that bugs us. But the fact is that, if enough people don't like you, you'll never get to be President. In fact, if you look back at the last several Presidential elections in this country (going back as far as 1980, anyway), the guy who won was always the guy that the most people, given a choice, would prefer to have a beer with. Like it or not, that's just the way it is.

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary for Veep???
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 05 May 04 - 09:17 AM

"It is just plain immoral to stand by that kind of a man."

If a wife chose to divorce her husband in such circumstances were attacked for that decision, it would be seen as bloody impertinant and intolerant. I think that applies the other way round too. After all, when we get married, we promise to stick with someone "till death us do part", and there's no "unless" clause.

There have to be reasons for her being hated other than that. What was her slippery manoeuvre for getting to be a New York senator - wasn't it just to do with having to establish a residential qualification? Isn't that a normal thing to do in the USA? In a country where an Austrian can become a State Governor, and a Easterner born with a silver spoon in his mouth can become a yee-haw Texan son of the people?

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary for Veep???
From: Once Famous
Date: 04 May 04 - 09:48 PM

I would vote for her.

But she will not run this year. Bobert is right. Kerry has no chance of winning, but Hilary could in 4 years if she wants it.

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary for Veep???
From: Amos
Date: 04 May 04 - 09:36 PM

I never thought she was wrong for standing by Bill. I thought her maneuver for getting into the Senate was pretty slippery, though. I can't say whether she has done well or ill representing the people of New York -- what say those who live there?

A

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary for Veep???
From: GUEST,Jaze
Date: 04 May 04 - 09:19 PM

Could Bill Clinton be Vice president? Is there any kind of rule against that? Just wondering.

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary for Veep???
From: Guy Wolff
Date: 04 May 04 - 09:16 PM

I saw Hilery Clinton on Larry King and was so happy to hear a human being putting together two, three and more thoughts into one presentation of a real paragraph . Thoughts that led to conclutions... WOW what a consept ! I very much look forward to ANYONE who can get us past the pablem we have been letting ourselves be fed for so long . THere is a lot to like or dislike in Mrs Clinton because she is a thinking person not talking out of the side of her mouth. I am shore that scars a lot of people . I would be happy to see her run i any way she chooses to . I would be happy to see any one run who has the capassaty to prossess thoughts and forsee pitfalls in all the crazy subtext out there .

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary for Veep???
From: mg
Date: 04 May 04 - 08:29 PM

It is just plain immoral to stand by that kind of a man. You are condoning and enabling his behavior and essentially participating in it. I am not talking about affairs. I am talking about sexual predation. I could care less how many consensual affairs either of them had, how many Kerry/Bush/Cheney whoever has had. mg

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary for Veep???
From: dianavan
Date: 04 May 04 - 07:04 PM

I didn't know that Americans generally hated Hillary.

I thought that "stand by your man" would have been very popular.

Bad political move, I guess. Perhaps it would have been better for her to divorce him and go it alone.

Otherwise she seems very intelligent and well spoken. On t.v. she comes across as personable.

So why the dislike?

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary for Veep???
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 04 May 04 - 04:20 PM

I'm still puzzled why people hate Mrs Clinton. She seems fairly undramatic and balanced, like any number of people doing useful jobs well - if you had to guess what she did for a living and you didn't know you'd probably guess she was a teacher.

"Basically dishonest" - but isn't that a requirement for the job anyway? The last President you had whom you might say was "basically honest" was Jimmy Carter, and apparently American voters didn't like that one bit, in the end.

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary for Veep???
From: mg
Date: 04 May 04 - 04:19 PM

No Hillary on my vote. Period. I am all for women presidents and vice presidents. I could easily vote for a ticket with Diane Feinstein, Olympia Snowe, Condi Rice, Maria Cantwell..in either slot. No Hillary ever. mg

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary for Veep???
From: DougR
Date: 04 May 04 - 04:07 PM

I doubt Kerry would want her. She is too strong for him. He'd have to watch his back every step of the way. She probably hopes he will lose anyway, to clear the path for her in 2008.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary for Veep???
From: SINSULL
Date: 04 May 04 - 03:49 PM

While Bill lied, Hillary swore to it. In my opinion she is basically dishonest. If she runs as VP, I will not vote for Kerry or Bush. Maybe I will write in Catspaw.

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary for Veep???
From: Peace
Date: 04 May 04 - 02:40 PM

Maybe it's time we had people who "don't know how government works." The people we have now all know how to milk the system. And where are we. They sleep with conglomerates, dine with bankers, have their campaigns paid for by corporations. How about we get people dedicated to obeying the law. And I mean in Canada and the US and Britain and . . . . Maybe some people who don't have friends with vested interest in how a bill is voted on. Maybe some people who care about something that resembles the interests of the voters. But then, no, because we won't vote for them because they won't get elected because they have no rich corporations behind them.

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary for Veep???
From: GUEST,Whistle Stop
Date: 04 May 04 - 02:34 PM

Sooner or later, someone would have to ask what qualifies Ms. Winfrey for the highest office in the land. She's a celebrity, and fairly likable, but I still like to think that someone should show some capacity for governance before he or she becomes President of the richest and most powerful country on earth. [However, given Arnold's recent ascent to the Governorship of California, I may be wrong about that.]

Madeleine Albright would be a better choice, in my estimation; a brilliant woman with a genuine understanding of how governments work.

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary for Veep???
From: Joe Offer
Date: 04 May 04 - 01:41 PM

I really admire Hillary, and I'd vote for her if she ran - but she engenders such intense hatred that I can't see how she could be elected. I agree with McGrath that Oprah is a more practical choice.
But I don't know if I could bring myself to vote for Ms. Winfrey.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary for Veep???
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 04 May 04 - 01:23 PM

"what woman today would have a serious chance to be elected president or even vice president?"

Well, there's Michael Moore's first preference, Oprah Winfrey...

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary for Veep???
From: GUEST
Date: 04 May 04 - 01:18 PM

One Catholic, No Jews, No African American, No Gay, No Lesbian, No Latino, No woman...either veep or prez...over two hundred years of democracy and no breakthroughs...odd or not

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary for Veep???
From: Joe Offer
Date: 04 May 04 - 12:52 PM

I think the voters are timed of polarization, even as more and more people seem to be moving to the extremes (or maybe the extremists are becoming more vocal). If Kerry chose Powell or McCain, that might just turn the tide and make the people in the center believe they could actually have a voice again.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary for Veep???
From: GUEST,Whistle Stop
Date: 04 May 04 - 12:28 PM

I think the American people might be ready for a woman Vice President, or even a woman President. But I doubt the American people are ready for Hillary Clinton to serve in either capacity. She is admired by some, hated by many, genuinely liked by very few.

I think Hillary has many admirable qualities, and I generally agree with her political outlook. But I don't think she'll ever make it on a national ticket. Rightly or wrongly, the American people just don't like her. And likability is still the most important quality in the Presidential popularity contest.

The Bush team, however, would love it if she joined the Kerry ticket. It would just about guarantee them a decisive victory.

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary for Veep???
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 03 May 04 - 10:58 PM

Hillary would be a good choice if the Dems were operating from a position of strength - if Bush's war had backfired badly enough to seriously turn public opinion against him. I think a public that is tired of war would be more open to the idea of a woman V.P. (or President) than a public who still largely supports the war effort.

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary for Veep???
From: Amergin
Date: 03 May 04 - 10:17 PM

Hopefully not some one who tries to look like a young robert redford....

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary for Veep???
From: Deckman
Date: 03 May 04 - 10:09 PM

I think a better question is: what woman today would WANT to be President, considering the gawdawful mess that President bush has started. Bob

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary for Veep???
From: Blackcatter
Date: 03 May 04 - 10:04 PM

It think an important question is: what woman today would have a serious chance to be elected president or even vice president?

Who is there on the national scene that has what it takes to overcome the fact that many people don't want a woman to lead our country?

Clinton is a national figure because she was first lady - she would never have run for the Senate without that.

Who else is there?

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary for Veep???
From: Bobert
Date: 03 May 04 - 10:03 PM

Kerry can't win this election with any Dem on the ticket! Period! His only chance is with McCain but then he's have to revamp his campaigne around "working together" and "changing the tone" and might not even have the PR bucks to do that. He has purdy much chosen to be a better "war presdient" than Bush and if he's gonna stick with that as his message, then even McCain can't help him one danged bit... The American people aren't looking for another war president. The current guy is very much up to the task of making war with anyone, anywhere and for any misconcieved resaon.

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary for Veep???
From: dianavan
Date: 03 May 04 - 09:52 PM

Another interesting comment from the daughter.

Hillary looks good when compared to other women in politics but if you compare her to other men in politics, she doesn't have a chance. What do you think of this? Out of the mouths of babes!

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary for Veep???
From: Blackcatter
Date: 03 May 04 - 09:37 PM

It is unlikely that she will run. I doubt that she want to be VP - even if it elevates her to possibly being pres. eventually. I don't think she really wants to be Pres.

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary for Veep???
From: Amos
Date: 03 May 04 - 09:37 PM

I doubt she could swing it -- while she has certain attractions she also carries some liabilities, and in fact there were some segments of the left that just hated her. I doubt that Kerry would tap her for Veep because her advantage is not that clear-cut. Who he should really tap is Colin Powell.

Not that Colin would accept, but it would be a good match.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary for Veep???
From: michaelr
Date: 03 May 04 - 09:36 PM

No way. HRC has too much baggage to do the Dems any good this year. She needs more time to prove herself in the Senate and actually DO something there, to counteract the Republican hate campaign against her.

Running her as VP candidate now would be the death knell for Kerry.
(Not that he looks all that alive...)

Cheers,
Michael

Subject: BS: Hillary for Veep???
From: MarkS
Date: 03 May 04 - 09:27 PM

Heard a commentator the other day saying that if Hillary Clinton has any further political ambitions, she really needs to be on the national ticket this year. If Kerry does not win, the Repubs will be in power for the next four years and the Democratic nomination for the top of the ticket will be a tossup in '08, but with a big advantage for somebody who has more national experience. If Kerry does win, he should be in power for eight years, and the likely Democratic presidential nominee would be his Veep in '12.
Either way, this will be the pivotal year for Hillary. Its now or never!
Thought the comments were interesting, and wonder what others think?
Mark