Tech: Scan Disc/Defrag? Help!

Subject: RE: Tech: Scan Disc/Defrag? Help!
From: GUEST,goodlife
Date: 20 Apr 08 - 08:59 AM

if yuo if you goto run and type in msconfig and goto startup tab you will be surprised how many programmes are running in the background

Subject: RE: Tech: Scan Disc/Defrag? Help!
From: Gulliver
Date: 19 Apr 08 - 08:52 PM

Tried out Diskeeper (mentioned above) on a Windows ME machine and it did a good job, fast, until it crashed. Still, a badly fragmented disk was probably about 90% defragged in a very short space of time. I'll continue tomorrow. Don

Subject: RE: Tech: Scan Disc/Defrag? Help!
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 19 Apr 08 - 11:54 AM

Yes, I think that is correct. Back when I still had an older machine I had to partition the new hard drive small enough so the OS could work with it.

SRS

Subject: RE: Tech: Scan Disc/Defrag? Help!
From: GUEST, Richard Bridge on the computer called "Rich
Date: 19 Apr 08 - 03:54 AM

All my computers have names.

The XP Celeron 2600 is Jeff
This one is an Athlon 2400 runs W98SE and is Richard
There is an Athlon 2000 with 98SE and it's Royston
The P3 933 with WinME is Rachel
THe P233 with W95 (in bits right now) is Dominic
And the P3 400 with XP (Don't ask me how it does it!) is Saj.

Not all on the network right now.

Anyway, this is Richard on Richard with the 149gig drive back in, and it's running far better for being totally defragged, but I still can't defrag that drive in W98SE so it must be a capacity issue.

When I get the new big drives I'll fdisk the one going into Richard into lumps smaller than 127 gig and try it.

I will also put one in an external drive case that is supposed to create a network drive, but even on the J45 connector and plugged into my router it seems to attach itself to one computer or other - but the case also has a USB2 drive so it will be easy to USB it to Jeff to defrag every so often.

Subject: RE: Tech: Scan Disc/Defrag? Help!
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 18 Apr 08 - 07:09 PM

Now you need to put it back in the machine where it wouldn't defrag and see if it will now.

(I wouldn't necessarily do that, but it's sooo eeezyyyy to suggest more work for others.)

John

Subject: RE: Tech: Scan Disc/Defrag? Help!
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 18 Apr 08 - 06:39 PM

Defragging hanging outside teh XP machine worked

Whole network now defragged!

Subject: RE: Tech: Scan Disc/Defrag? Help!
From: GUEST, RIchard Bridge
Date: 18 Apr 08 - 01:58 PM

Power Defrag still said thre was insufficinet memory to defrag.

I'm going to pop the drive out and defrag it on an XP machine.

Subject: RE: Tech: Scan Disc/Defrag? Help!
From: GUEST, Richard Bridge
Date: 18 Apr 08 - 07:46 AM

ebuyer still does IDE drives, and the sizes are monstrous and the amount of mmory per pound so low!

Get 'em before they are gone!

Subject: RE: Tech: Scan Disc/Defrag? Help!
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 18 Apr 08 - 07:14 AM

Unless you find stuff just "left on the shelf" you may have a hard time finding IDE or EIDE hard drives. They've pretty much disappeared in my local shops.

There still are plenty around online (I rarely visit a shop) in the UK. I'm not sure but out of the 5 PCs here, Pip's might still need IDE drives. The rest have SATA support.

As for disk size. I've been using 160Gb which has been more than enough except for the mythtv server which does have recordings, CDs and DVDs. Got a 750Gb in that.

I've got a spare 750Gb drive at the moment (one was replaced under warranty but I had to get a new drive while waiting for the claim to be processed). I'm toying with putting this in my spare web server box. Currently, this box is woken up once a day and does the web server backups and shuts itself down once done but I might just try to extend its use to back up the other PCs data onto this spare drive.

Subject: RE: Tech: Scan Disc/Defrag? Help!
From: AKS
Date: 18 Apr 08 - 06:57 AM

Any Win file system needs frequent defragmenting; let win xp be a year without, then defrag and be amazed!!!

Short time experience so far, but this one looks promising. I have it running at boot, takes ca 40 secs on a 30 G system drive with 12.5 G "occupied".

AKS

Subject: RE: Tech: Scan Disc/Defrag? Help!
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 18 Apr 08 - 05:48 AM

Unless you find stuff just "left on the shelf" you may have a hard time finding IDE or EIDE hard drives. They've pretty much disappeared in my local shops.

There seem to be some advantages for SATA but I haven't been forced to switch over on my own computer, and Lin's (the newer one, naturally) came with an SATA HD that she's only got about 10% filled.

I'm at about 80% on an internal 160 GB and 45% on a 180 GB external that I use regularly, so backups (for all four machines) rotate between a couple of external 250 GB drives that only get connected during backups.

The big problem with having lots of storage is that a full AV scan takes about 7 hours on my machine, and if I really lose something and have to do a full search on one of my two main drives it's about a half hour just to find out I misspelled the word I was looking for.

John

Subject: RE: Tech: Scan Disc/Defrag? Help!
From: GUEST, Richard Bridge
Date: 18 Apr 08 - 05:25 AM

Well, I think I'll try brute force and ignorance first.

I have downloaded an old version of Power Defrag (version 2, runs with 9x) and will run it tonight when computer not needed for work.

If that doesn't work then I'll pop the 149gig drive into my XP machine as a slave and use the 25gig slave that is in there for soemthing else - it hardly matters where on the network the slave is, so long as I remember where it is! I might use it on my W95 msachine that I only keep running to cock a snook at Microsnot.

I could of course pop the bog drive into the XP machineas a slave, format it there, and put it back where I want it.

I've got an old Partition Magic that I usually use for shuffling partitions other than when I get new blank drives and have to remember how to fdisk.

I'm planning to plop a couple of big hard drives as slaves into different parts of the network. A friend has given me an old Dell PowerEdge server (running, with XP, and restore disk, but processor only 400Mhz) and it looks as if I might be able to stuff LOADS of hard drives into it (I think it is designed to take 5 as well as the one with the OS on) to use it simply as remote storage. But I might have to take my first steps into the dark mysteries of SATA rather than IDE.

Subject: RE: Tech: Scan Disc/Defrag? Help!
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 18 Apr 08 - 05:07 AM

Richard -

It's been so long since I've had 98SE running that I probably forgot more than I ever knew and only remember things I never heard of. I'm not even sure I still have a good book on it around.

An archive folder has notes that I may have posted somewhere in a previous thread - or may never have gotten around to posting.

The only one that really looks like it might be applicable is #4, which notes that the SCANDISK utility in Win98 can't process a disk larger than 127 GB. Vague recollection is that the SCANDISK utility is invoked for the "analysis" performed as the first step in a defrag. If the disk exceeds what the first step can handle, or if the free space is "misread" in that step, you quite likely would get an out-of-memory error message of one flavor or another.

The article may NOT actually be applicable, since there were a couple of early evolutions of Win98 that might have "fixed" the limitation.(Win98, Win98SE, Win98SE-SR1, and WinME in different flavors actually did have some differences.) I know that I tried to dope out what should work and what wouldn't a couple of years ago, but it's either too long ago for the tired brain or my coffee isn't perking me right.

#6 on the list might also contribute something to the confusion, but although it indicates a recent "verified for accuracy" it doesn't seem to include what would likely be surviving Win98 versions.

I'll go ahead and give you the whole baggage cart of articles, but I think all but the fourth one - Limitations of FAT32 - probably are just extra clutter.

If you are past the "drive size" limit of what your version of Win98SE can handle, the only thing realistic to do about it is to partition the drive, I would think. If that looks necessary, I'd be inclined to see if the HD manufacturer has a Format/Partition utility you can download rather than attempting to figure out what's right from what Microsoft lets you find on old systems now.

1. Description of the FAT32 File System (KB article 154997) gives a brief description of FAT32 specific to Win95 and other obsolete systems. This is a very old article, and may not be up to date even for the latest Win98 versions.

2. The above has a link to Overview of FAT, HPFS, and NTFS File Systems (KB article 100108) is a little more comprehensive, but still a bit dated. (It also includes information on the now obsolete HPFS format that was used by a few obsolete NT systems.)

3. Common questions about the FAT32 file system (KB No 253774) is basically a FAQ about FAT32. It includes a link to Description of the FAT32 File System (KB no 154997) which gives a little more info on the FAT32 format itself.

4. Also in the same bucket of interlinking articles, Limitations of FAT32 File System (KB No 184006) may give you information on what's appropriate for your specific Win98 versions. There are some critical limitations on what various apparently identical versions can do, and in some cases there are limitations due to your BIOS (for which you may be able to download an upgrade if necessary).

5. Description of Default Cluster Sizes for FAT32 File System (KB NO 192322) may be helpful, although it's just "skeleton" information.

6. For obsessively curious historians, MS-DOS Partitioning Summary gives a "history" of the evolution of the FAT system, ending with the introduction of FAT32 with Windows 95.

(OK, I did omit a couple that were in the archive, but they dealt only with the HPFS format that no sane person I knew ever used much.)

John

Subject: RE: Tech: Scan Disc/Defrag? Help!
From: treewind
Date: 18 Apr 08 - 04:05 AM

If you're running NT, 2000, XP or any other version of Windows you should be using NTFS, not FAT/FAT32 and I didn't think NTFS needed defragging; it was designed generally to minimise disk head movement and resist file fragmentation.

[obligatory Penguinista gloat:] I've never defragged my FS. It doesn't need it!

Anahata

Subject: RE: Tech: Scan Disc/Defrag? Help!
From: GUEST, Richard Bridge
Date: 18 Apr 08 - 03:04 AM

FAT 32

And as I said, it's a 149 gig drive with 89 gig free space.

I'd get a trial period on a defragger and try that - but I'm still with W98SE adn most freebies these days are for XP or newer.

Subject: RE: Tech: Scan Disc/Defrag? Help!
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 18 Apr 08 - 12:37 AM

Richard -

It might make some difference what format the D:\ drive is using?

It's unlikely to be old FAT at that size, so a very old Norton wouldn't be helpful. The format used on the disk should be the only thing that matters, especially if the Norton will run in Safe Mode.

It could be FAT32, but normally 10% free space is the minimum said to be required to defrag with, and 20% almost always is enough to run on a FAT32 drive. Any reasonably recent Norton should handle any FAT32 drive, but you may have to run it from a command line if it clanks with the Windows version you have.

It's remotely possible that you can have lots of free space but the free space is too fragmented for defrag to use. About the only thing that can be done is to remove enough files to make a contiguous free hole that defrag can run in. Once a partial cleanup is done, you would be able to put the files back and run defrag normally.

In WinXP at least (probably in all Win versions) defrag is a legal command line operation, so it certainly could be run in safe mode to avoid having RAM memory loaded up(?).. Type "defrag /?" at a command line (DOS prompt) to get the details on running it the way you want.

[Start|Run "msconfig" and on the general tab set "diagnostic startup" - on reboot usually gets a clean enough "Safe Mode." Rerun "msconfig" to set back to normal boot when done. Sometimes this change on the general tab changes stuff on other tabs, so watch what needs to be reset if it doesn't come back right. You'll get bitch notes from Windows if something else needs a reset.]

John

Subject: RE: Tech: Scan Disc/Defrag? Help!
From: GUEST, Richard Bridge
Date: 17 Apr 08 - 06:40 PM

I have quite a big D drive (a separate disk) on this computer - 149 gig with 89 gig free space - and I can't defrag the D drive.

I get "insufficient memory" "try closing some programs" - which is no use if tehy are all shut already.

Suggestions?

I might have a very old Norton Tools lying around (not loaded) but it might be so old it only plays with W95! My recollection is that it puts the essentials at the other end of the drive from the Windoze (all right, MS-Dos) defrag so you don't want to alternate them!

Subject: RE: Tech: Scan Disc/Defrag? Help!
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 16 Apr 08 - 06:38 PM

I made a copy of everything on the card, but didn't remove everything, though I was in a housekeeping mood and did dump quite a few photos. Defrag is a considerably less drastic move than the format. I'll use the camera some and see what happens. You're correct, the camera can do a format of the card. I didn't defrag through the card reader, I had the camera on the cable so it did it while the camera and the computer were connected and both turned on.

Sounds kind of kinky, doesn't it? ;-D

SRS

Subject: RE: Tech: Scan Disc/Defrag? Help!
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 16 Apr 08 - 04:20 PM

Stilly -

Its been at least a year since I went looking for a "data recovery" program when a drive failed.

Incidental information #1 is that all the useful data recovery programs for hard drives were too expensive to be worthwhile (for the data I wanted to recover). There were a couple of data recovery programs that were less expensive that might have been affordable enough to try using on memory cards up to about 1GB, but the "small programs" wouldn't handle hard drive sizes.

Incidental information #2 was the advice that:

Memory cards used in cameras may lose format, and this is a "usual cause" of individual images - or entire cards - that aren't readable.

It was recommended that any "memory" used in a camera should ONLY BE FORMATTED BY THE CAMERA in which it's used.

The caveats are that it was quite a while ago when I ran into this info, and the info may have been "well aged" by the time I found it.

Both cameras and memory cards have changed some (in some cases "improved") since then, so a reformat of a card in a reader, using the computer format, may have a better chance of working. Some of the "cheaper" cameras now available may have decided that the format utility isn't needed(?).

Your Nikon almost certainly can do a memory card format of an inserted card, and that would still be the recommended method in your case. The memory is small enough that you can easily dump the information that's on it, and a format in the camera is the most reliable way to assure that the memory is "clean."

If you're losing individual images, removing all the readable pics and running a format on the card - in the camera and using the camera format utility - may avoid having increasing numbers of lost pics in the future.

If you have "unreadables" still on the card that might be worth the effort, looking for a data recovery program might find something useful, and reasonably affordable if the need justifies any expense at all, especially for a small card like the one mentioned. (I probably wouldn't bother, unless I knew there was something really precious on the card.)

John

Subject: RE: Tech: Scan Disc/Defrag? Help!
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 16 Apr 08 - 10:45 AM

I'm bringing this thread back after an interesting discovery this week. It should have occurred to me, but it didn't, so maybe someone else will benefit from this process.

My Nikon digital camera (Coolpix 5600--a marvelous little camera) started showing the dreaded red X in a box on a couple of images when I opened the card in Explorer. I didn't think much of it the first time, but it kept happening, and then a message popped up from Windows that I should run chkdsk on this drive. I happened to run into one of our library IT guys yesterday and I asked him where to find it, because I'd poked around looking for access to a DOS domain to run it and had no luck.

It's an easy answer, also something I should have/probably eventually would have found by myself, but here it is: right click on the drive (in this case, "O") and bring up the standard windows dialog box. Click on the Tools tab and you'll find several diagnostic tools. I ran the one to fix any files and bad sectors, then on a lark, I clicked on Defrag. It's a small card, 256Meg, and it was an amazing array of red bars throughout the display. I cleaned it up and it seems to be fine, and loaded a little faster when I reopened it just now (I have to dump a bunch of images I've downloaded, then I'll run it one more time to see if I can get the last few little red bars out of the picture).

Something you might want to do before you head out with the digital camera for the family vacation. You don't want to lose any of them due to a tangled mess on the card.

SRS

Subject: RE: Tech: Scan Disc/Defrag? Help!
From: Bill D
Date: 27 May 04 - 07:46 PM

I have Norton, the 'usual' defrag, and a newer one made for Win ME or something, which has been 'passed around'...I always did just fine until the re-install.

Subject: RE: Tech: Scan Disc/Defrag? Help!
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 27 May 04 - 06:54 PM

With Win95 & Win98 I had Norton Utilities Installed. I have changed my machine and upgraded to Win98SE, but not yet transfered Norton.

The standard Win Defrag I found to be a pain, but the Norton Utilities Defrag never gave such described hassles, and I found it to be faster, more efficient, and you could set up things like putting all directories at the front of the disk, ceertain files at front or end of disk or space used, and could set up the swap file to be at start or end of disk.

Robin

Subject: RE: Tech: Scan Disc/Defrag? Help!
From: Bill D
Date: 27 May 04 - 06:20 PM

hmmm!...I used to run a 10 gig drive..(9.5 or so usable)...but the new drive is 20 gig...could that be a problem, even though only 7-8 gigs were used when I tried? I used to run defrag just fine with 5-6 gigs of a 10 gig drive in use. (I regularly clean off extra stuff, and make sure it is as small as possible before defrag)...I have programs which clear 'temp' files, and I put images and music files on CDs..etc.

*sigh*...I guess it is about time to upgrade to something more stable---AFTER the festival in June!...If the craft show goes well, we might be able to afford a new box!

Subject: RE: Tech: Scan Disc/Defrag? Help!
From: Sorcha
Date: 27 May 04 - 05:16 PM

No teenagers....just a husband with friends.

Subject: RE: Tech: Scan Disc/Defrag? Help!
From: Zany Mouse
Date: 27 May 04 - 05:14 PM

Hey - anyone with a teenager in the house should be OK for computer advice!!! Hee hee

Rhiannon

Subject: RE: Tech: Scan Disc/Defrag? Help!
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 27 May 04 - 05:04 PM

Sorcha: Probably everyone with a teenager in the house has the same problem. Teenagers like to download lots of freebies like file-sharing programs (Kazaa, etc.), instant-messaging programs, games, etc., many of which come bundled with nasty stuff that fills up your hard drive, crowds your memory, overloads your internet connection, slows down your computer, fills your screen with pop-up ads, takes you to websites you don't want to go to, and might even cause the whole system to hang occasionally. Some of the stuff even stays there after you think you've uninstalled it.

These problems are solvable, but you will need to learn more than you ever wanted to know about operating systems.

Subject: RE: Tech: Scan Disc/Defrag? Help!
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 27 May 04 - 04:57 PM

Basically I think it's because it's angry at you for going away so long. The same way cats are.

Subject: RE: Tech: Scan Disc/Defrag? Help!
From: Sorcha
Date: 27 May 04 - 04:45 PM

I found MY problem....some bugger downloaded a bunch of Yahoo Messenger and other Yahoo stuff.....this machine HATES Yahoo. Now, if I can just figure out why the upstairs machine refuses to get on line...I've tried shutting down both machines and disconnecting the modem and a System Restore upstairs. No joy. Also, the machine upstairs is refusing to recognize the approved/regisgered password. Damn him for letting people use our computers!!

Subject: RE: Tech: Scan Disc/Defrag? Help!
From:
Date: 27 May 04 - 03:09 PM

Have any of you tried Diskeeper or The Lite version?

I got it off a British Computer Magazine Disk, and found it worked great and was EXTREMELY fast.

Diskeeper

Diskeeper Lite - FREE version

Hope it helps

Subject: RE: Tech: Scan Disc/Defrag? Help!
From: Sorcha
Date: 27 May 04 - 03:07 PM

Well, I got it to do it in Safe Mode...we'll see now if it helps. Thanks.

Subject: RE: Tech: Scan Disc/Defrag? Help!
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 27 May 04 - 03:06 PM

Bill D -

Most common cause of a "can't run" is insufficient free space on the disk. Defrag requires at least 10%(?) free to run on Win98, and more with some other Win versions. (The 10% is a vague recollection.) The more fragmented the disk is, the more free space is needed, so any "minimum" is a pretty loose guess. Sometimes you can move a few files off to get room to defrag, and then move them back and still get a rerun of defrag, since the contiguous free space after the first defrag is "more usable."

General -

The Microsoft "answer" on this is that other programs may interfere with scandisk and/or defrag, but there is a little more to it than that. They don't tell you that defrag itself may make disk changes that require it to restart - at least in any of their articles that I've found.

IF you do happen to have a particular program that interferes, it can slow things down drastically, and you should shut off the interfering progam(s), or defrag in Safe Mode. If you've found an improvement doing it that way, it just means that you probably do have some other program that intrudes. Most of the programs that people have "blamed" do affect defrag, but often not to the extent claimed.

Even with nothing except defrag itself running, you may still get the "something writing to disk" notice, since defrag itself can write stuff to the disk that requires it to restart on a FAT32 drive.

The key here is that the "Volume Index" (VI) used in place of the "File Allocation Table" on FAT32 drives does not have a fixed length like the simpler FAT did with FAT16 (or FAT12) drives. Unlike FAT16, the VI is not required to be the first thing on the drive, but in practice it always is (2 copies), after boot sector data. Much of the information that can be included in the FAT32 VI is "optional," and quite a lot of it may be added only when defrag tries to clean up the disk. In addition, file locations may be recorded as "relative offset" in addition to "absolute addresses."

When defrag finds something that it "needs to add" to the "Volume Index," the size of the VI can change, and this means that all the "relative addresses" - distance from the data in VI - have to be corrected, and all subsequent data has to move to make room for the change in VI size. When it writes the new information into the Volume Index, that is a "restart required" write-to-disk.

Once the VI is "defragged" on the first pass, the "first file" is written immediately adjacent (to the second copy of the VI). If the size of the VI changes, everything that comes after it has to be moved, which can "fragment" the subsequent data so that the "defrag" of everything that comes after it has to be redone. (If the defrag program had been set up to leave a "gap" or some "loose space" at the end of the VI, the restart problem probably would not occur, or at least wouldn't be as frequent.)

If you turn on the "view disk map" in Win98 during defrag, you can see where (approximately) on the disk the utility is doing its thing. You'll see it work up to a certain point, make a change, start over. It will work past that first point (usually) until it finds something else that requires a change. When it starts over, it will again (usually) stop at the same "first stop" location, make a change, and start over. The next time through it may pass the second "stop" but will eventually hit another place where it has to write a change, and will start over. If the 3d change affected the VI size enough, it may have changed data for the 2d "stop," and it's already been shown that the change at the 2d stop affects the first stop - so everything has to repeat from the beginning.

In somewhat oversimplified terms, when defrag finds the "last change," that last change may affect the VI size, which means that everything up to it may have to be redone. i.e. defrag is half finished.

In later versions, you don't have the option of watching the disk map during a defrag, but something of the same sort may go on. Defrag in later Windows versions is, fortunately, a lot more efficient.

In Win98, you have a choice of two methods of defrag. You can choose the "simple" method where the files are just written - without gaps - in whatever order they appear. You can also allow defrag to attempt to sort things so that "frequently used" files are placed where they can be found more quickly, and "files used together" are placed near each other. For an initial defrag of a badly scrambled drive, the simple sort may be quicker; but subsequent "simple sorts" may not improve much if a file that gets frequently modified is early on the disk. In simple mode, something is moved to make room to defragment the first file, and the all subsequent files have to be moved to fill in the gaps - unless or until there's a big enough "blank" space that happens to "fit" what defrag puts there.

If you allow the "sorted" defrag, the initial defrag may take longer; but you often will see an improvement in time required once the disk is "sorted out." Note that it may take several defrag passes before the time improves significantly.

The size of your drive has some effect on how long a defrag will take. Many Win98 machines are set up with 8 GB or smaller partitions, because that's all Win98 could read without overlays. 80 GB is a fairly small partition for later versions of Windows, and >300 GB drives are not too uncommon now. The problem is somewhat less severe with larger drives, simply because the cluster size may be much larger so defrag can make more changes within the "cluster slop" without having to move subsequent stuff on the drive. Of course, the larger drive can contain a lot more files that have to be handled.

The problem pretty much goes away with WinXP and NTFS format for the hard drives. It shouldn't be much of a problem with WinXP even if, for some reason, you're forced to use FAT32 disks. Because the "normal" defrag in WinXP or Win2K defrags the files but usually leaves some "fragmented white space," there's more room to move files around without the "restart" problem arising.

John

Subject: RE: Tech: Scan Disc/Defrag? Help!
From: Bill D
Date: 27 May 04 - 02:17 PM

had my HD replaced last year, and Windows (98SE) reinstalled by a company. 2 or 3 months later, I tried to do a de-frag, and it told me "unable to run defrag" since then, I discovered scandisk has also refused to run...

I will try a couple of the workarounds noted soon...(AFTER the 7th of June, as I do not have 20 hours to devote to defrag right now..*wry grin*)

Subject: RE: Tech: Scan Disc/Defrag? Help!
From: Sorcha
Date: 27 May 04 - 12:58 PM

Well, yes, screen saver etc is None. I have done this before. Can't do the defrag until AFTER scan disc....will try safe mode.

Subject: RE: Tech: Scan Disc/Defrag? Help!
From: GUEST,MCP
Date: 27 May 04 - 12:56 PM

See the MS Knowledge Base article: Err Msg:Scandisk has restarted 10 times...

(IIRC in XP when you try to run it tells you and offers to schedule it to go at the next restart)


Mick

Subject: RE: Tech: Scan Disc/Defrag? Help!
From: Geoff the Duck
Date: 27 May 04 - 12:55 PM

Sorcha - I was asking similar questions about Degfrag a few months back. I had just had a defrag which took about 13 hours and was wondering why it kept stopping and starting from scratch.
I found JohnInKansas This Thread!!!!!!!! gave very useful advice, as did various other 'catters.
The main point was that once the major defrag has been completed, there should be a big sector of your disc sorted out, and new information writes to the remaining bit. As a result, most of the new defragmentation is confined to a limited portion, so if you then defrag it is working on a much smaller (and therefore quicker) job.
Is that right - John?
Anyway, since that time any defrags I have done take a considerably shorter time. It still stops and re-writes itself, but this doesn't hold things up by much.
Quack!
GtD.

Subject: RE: Tech: Scan Disc/Defrag? Help!
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 27 May 04 - 12:50 PM

70 hours? That's nuts! It shouldn't take even 1 hour if it's a new machine. Sounds like something is wrong or that contradictory settings have been allowed to have equal standing and it interferes with itself. Check with the Microsoft Knowledge Base. Here's one possible problem "Drive's Contents Have Changed: Restarting" Message When You Use Disk Defragmenter. In short, be sure you turn off your anti-virus program before you do the defrag if this kind of thing happens.

SRS

Subject: RE: Tech: Scan Disc/Defrag? Help!
From: GUEST,Jim Dixon
Date: 27 May 04 - 12:36 PM

That was me. Sorry.

Subject: RE: Tech: Scan Disc/Defrag? Help!
From: Morticia
Date: 27 May 04 - 12:36 PM

I go into RUN, then type in MSCONFIG, choose safe mode and then run defrag and so on from there......saves much hassle.

Subject: RE: Tech: Scan Disc/Defrag? Help!
From: GUEST
Date: 27 May 04 - 12:35 PM

If Defrag is interrupting itself, why does it NOT do so when running in Safe Mode?

Subject: RE: Tech: Scan Disc/Defrag? Help!
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 27 May 04 - 12:29 PM

If you're using Win98, or one of the later Windows versions with FAT32 disk format, the "something" that's writing to disk is probably the defrag program itself. It's a "built-in" characteristic of the utility.

There were several threads relating to the "defrag problem" a couple of years ago, and lots of suggestions (and complaints), but the simple fact is that a scandisk or defrag with some system/disk format combinations may take a very long time to complete, and may look like all that's happening is that the first 10% of the disk keeps "starting over." The utility is running and is doing what it's supposed to do. It's "passing the buck" to make you think that something else is interfering, but in most cases it is the defrag utility itself (or scandisk) that is actually doing the "writing to disk."

It does make sense to turn off any program that may "auto start" during a defrag. Screen savers should probably be turned off, and if you have a web connection that pops up it could interfere. Turning off systray or even doing a "safe boot" to get a super-clean machine for a defrage will have little real effect.

If needed, you can safely "interrupt" a defrag, and continue with it later; but my "personal record" for a defrag with Win98 on a FAT32 drive was over 70 hours, and some people have reported longer times. Let it run as long as you can, and restart it when you can let it run some more. It will eventually finish the job.

If you've turned off the screen saver, and any other programs that are realistically known to jump up and run then it's largely a matter of letting the utilities do their thing - until they're done.

John

Subject: RE: Tech: Scan Disc/Defrag? Help!
From: HuwG
Date: 27 May 04 - 12:05 PM

You can also manually terminate tasks. Things such as mwsoemon will interrupt defrag.

The method for listing currently active processes (tasks) varies between versions of Windows and NT. On Win98, ctrl-alt-del brings up a box which lists them, but I suspect that on other versions, you will get only the option to close down the machine.

A small icon in the task bar should give you a list of processes in NT 4.0 / 5.0 / Win2000.

Subject: RE: Tech: Scan Disc/Defrag? Help!
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 27 May 04 - 12:05 PM

Turn off your screensaver. :0)

Subject: RE: Tech: Scan Disc/Defrag? Help!
From: GUEST,Jim Dixon
Date: 27 May 04 - 11:55 AM

I've had this problem, too. Probably you have some program running in the background that intermittently accesses your hard disk, thereby interrupting Scandisk or Defrag and causing them to repeatedly restart.

The thing to do is restart your computer in Safe Mode, then run those programs, then restart in regular mode. Your Windows Help screens should explain how to do this. (I'd explain it myself, but you might be using a different version of Windows than the one I'm familiar with.)

Subject: Tech: Scan Disc/Defrag? Help!
From: Sorcha
Date: 27 May 04 - 11:42 AM

OK, I've been gone for 6 weeks.....Mr. 'said' he kept the computer cleaned up, but it wouldn't do scan and defrag for him. Now, it won't do it for me.....I have exited everything in the System Tray except sound icon, Norton and Adujust Display option icons. Damn thing keeps saying "Windows or some other program is writing to this disc. Scan has restarted 10 times...etc." What on earth could be writing to the drive? I really need to clean this thing up. Thanks!