DC 'catters, be afraid (Public Radio & Folk)

Subject: RE: DC 'catters, be afraid (Public Radio & Folk)
From: Ferrara
Date: 27 Dec 04 - 11:36 PM

#1 Peasant, you said, "Radio stations especially those which are public radio stations depend upon donations. Are they getting donations from listeners of their folk music programs?"

I will restate what I said above about WAMU: "The bluegrass programs, especially the afternoon bluegrass on WAMU, were one of [the biggest], or the very biggest, sources of listener contributions."

It didn't stop them from dropping the afternoon bluegrass, moving Dick Spotswood to late Saturday night, etc. They were angling for big corporate contributions. (There were articles about the conflict in the Washington Post, I'm not just throwing mud here, I'm throwing documented mud here....)

Sorry I can't find the original articles to be sure I'm being accurate, does anyone remember it differently? Ron D? Kathy?

Rita F

Subject: RE: DC 'catters, be afraid (Public Radio & Folk)
From: GUEST,Cookieless KathWestra at Work
Date: 27 Dec 04 - 05:32 PM

Oops, that last post was me. I keep forgetting when I check in from work that I need to fill in the "from" line to avoid being recorded for Mudcat posterity as the Dreaded Anonymous GUEST. Sorry.
Kathy

Subject: RE: DC 'catters, be afraid (Public Radio & Folk)
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Dec 04 - 05:30 PM

Hey, thanks, 12stringgrowler, for the great links to the two BBC programs. I'm a big fan of Lester Simpson's music, both as a soloist and as a member of Coope, Boyes, and Simpson, and thought he would probably do a pretty knowledgeable and interesting show. I was not disappointed when I listened to his show live today! (2:00-4:00 p.m. U.S. Eastern STandard Time). What a wonderful mix of traditional source singers and newer stuff, in a wide variety of styles, British and American. A great model for folk radio programming, I say. One of the hosts (don't remember if it was Lester or Mick) mentioned that whenever possible they always try to pair a field recording of a song as it was sung by a source singer with its newer interpretation. Great goal--listeners actually LEARN something! I'm hooked. Kathy

Subject: RE: DC 'catters, be afraid (Public Radio & Folk)
From: *#1 PEASANT*
Date: 27 Dec 04 - 03:10 PM

As an observer of the Folk music scene in the Baltimore Washington Area I am struck by the decline.

I go to venues where music is free- Starbucks for example- in well populated areas and find that very few come out for the music. In Glen burnie the starbucks there stopped the music because so few came out each week.

I stopped tuning in to Mary Cliffe long ago because most of her program consisted of her voice advertizing performers and venues most of which I had no interest in.

I am associated with a folk band and I find their concerts poorly attended but more importantly I find they do not put enough work into lining up performances.

In general baltimore folk music programs play mostly singer songwriter stuff which though related is tedious and not really what I am looking for.

Radio stations especially those which are public radio stations depend upon donations. Are they getting donations from listeners of their folk music programs?

I recently re-joined a folk music society in the Baltimore Area. I find mostly dance and not so much music. I read of discrimination- a house concert- "alcohol free, smoke free"
How can we so discriminate and keep audiences up....

Free folk music too is becoming rare. When I started out in college I was glad to find free folk music venues where I could just wander in and have a good time. I always found hospitality-it felt good. That is what got me involved. Look at the price of a beer at your venue- it should be $1.00 or less not 4-5 or more. Folk venues should be a way of life not a way of profit. When it ceases to be a way of life and becomes a business it starts to decline.

I recently attended a dance-contra and folk. It was more like an athletic event than a social one. Still wonderful still good but not something I would find warm and inviting. I looked for a coffee-must be on the unhealthy list as water was not even boiled.

So.....

Lots of ways to create a demand for folk music which will reach the radio and television producers. Or you can just sit in your little hole, make money and be exclusive.

Conrad

Subject: RE: DC 'catters, be afraid (Public Radio & Folk)
From: Seamus Kennedy
Date: 27 Dec 04 - 01:37 AM

Don, pal,
trust me on this - it's not whining.

Seamus

Subject: RE: DC 'catters, be afraid (Public Radio & Folk)
From: Ferrara
Date: 26 Dec 04 - 10:38 PM

Yes, Don, lots of us in the D.C. area are very much aware that we were rich "before," when we had so much more traditinal radio music available, and that we are rich now. It's quite true. In fact this is something my friends and I sometimes talk about! We feel rich just to live in an area where folk and traditional music styles are so well loved and so well supported. We are rich in live music, and local, friendly, living-room music, too. It's one of the best things in my life.

And I do very much wish there were more traditional music programming available in other areas of the country!

All the same I believe it isn't greed, or whining, to be angry and frustrated when money-grubbers decide to make the world a little less rich in the things that count.

Happens all the time, but you can (and maybe should) be upset, and not just accept it without trying to change the situation. Sometimes it helps, too. Unless my good ol' memory is failing me again, Dick Spotswood's program was moved to the middle of the night for a while, but WAMU brought it back to a better position because of the huge number of requests.

Rita F

Subject: RE: DC 'catters, be afraid (Public Radio & Folk)
From: DonMeixner
Date: 23 Dec 04 - 11:15 PM

Such whining.

I have thre public radio stations to listen to. WAER from Syracuse University, WCNY from Liverpool NY. And WRVO from SUNY Oswego in Osego NY.

WAER is am all Jazz/Electric Blues all day format. With one extremely good locally produced folk show called "Common Threads" produced by Larry Hoyt on Sunday afternoons, 2:00 to 5:00, unless SU Football, Basketball, Volleyball, LaCrosse,Hockey or tennis pre-empts him. It is followed by an hour of just Grateful Dead and after midnite a World Music show.(What is World music?)

WRVO is all news all day. In the evening all Old Time Radio. And for two hours each and every Saturday, APHC with a repeat Sunday at 12:00.

WCNY has a great line up. Their philosphy is "We have heard music and it is Classical." But for three hours each sunday evening there is "The Blue Grass Ramble", and exceptional show run by the same dedicated man , Bill Knowlton, for 30 + years.

I have three stations to choose from and from the three my total folk music exposure is less that 12 hours some of which is repeated.

Such whiners. You've already lost more than this market everhad. You still have 5 times the programing this market will ever have.

Such Whiners.

Don

Subject: RE: DC 'catters, be afraid (Public Radio & Folk)
From: M.Ted
Date: 23 Dec 04 - 10:56 PM

True words, Rita--it is time to organize--

Subject: RE: DC 'catters, be afraid (Public Radio & Folk)
From: Ferrara
Date: 23 Dec 04 - 10:41 PM

Ron (Davies) thanks for posting the e-mail from WAMU! It certainly is encouraging. Don't see how they can guarantee what their policies will be once a new head honcho arrives though. Still ... "Let's keep those cards & letters coming"....

Rita

Subject: RE: DC 'catters, be afraid (Public Radio & Folk)
From: GUEST,AcappellaPete
Date: 23 Dec 04 - 09:25 PM

I too was disappointed when Lee Michael Dempsey's show and weekday afternoon bluegrass were dropped. I recently discovered an excellent internet radio station - FolkAlley.com. If you listen to it and like it I suggest you support it financially like I do. There's also BluegrassCountry.com, associated with WAMU. I'm sure there are more internet stations out there. Anyone else know of some?

Subject: RE: DC 'catters, be afraid (Public Radio & Folk)
From: breezy
Date: 23 Dec 04 - 06:13 PM

Folk is going underground!

At least you got some, here in the U K its one hour a week nationally and nothing locally where I live, so I'm hoping for an upsurge in attendance at live music venues, well I do run 2 clubs and I aim to put on a decent show.

Back to being a cult.

Good luck, fight yer buggers fight.

This reminds me of a Mike Agranoff monologue.Is it 'The Sandman'?

Subject: RE: DC 'catters, be afraid (Public Radio & Folk)
From: GUEST,Ron Davies
Date: 23 Dec 04 - 05:59 PM

As I said I would do, I did send my extremely pointed letter to WAMU--this morning.

This is what I got back--sounds positive---but the proof of the pudding......

Mr. Davies,

Thank you for your email re: WAMU's Sunday music lineup. I can assure you that WAMU has no plans to change that schedule. We have a loyal audience that we're committed to serving and long-time hosts like Red Shipley, Gary Henderson, Dick Spottswood, Ray Davis, Eddie Stubbs, Ed Walker and Rob Bamberger, to name a few, that we consider national treasures.

I'd like to share with you how committed we really are to those shows and reveal that Dick Spottswood recently retired and moved to Naples, Florida in September. WAMU provided him with computer equipment, technical support and ongoing weekly consultation in order to maintain "the Dick Spottswood Show" on WAMU. He now records his weekly 2-hour show on computer each week and sends the show to us on CD for the Sunday airing. We're proud to be able to provide the music that is part of the heritage, history and mission of WAMU for over the past 40 years. I hope you'll continue to support the local music programming you hear on WAMU each weekend beginning with HOT JAZZ SATURDAY NIGHT and ending with THE BIG BROADCAST with Ed Walker on Sunday evenings. It's what makes WAMU unique and we're proud of that service to our audience and the community.

Happy holidays.

Lettie Holman
Program Manager
WAMU-FM
202-885-1255
[e-mail]

Subject: RE: DC 'catters, be afraid (Public Radio & Folk)
From: Ferrara
Date: 23 Dec 04 - 03:23 PM

Tannywheeler, I don't think we can fix this. I have been saying for a couple decades now that the "MBA mentality" of the Bottom Line Before All Else is destroying the U.S....

But the ruthless, unrelenting money grubbing doesn't even necessarily help the bottom line, as WAMU's recent past shows.

The bluegrass programs, especially the afternoon bluegrass on WAMU, were one of, or the very biggest, sources of listener contributions. But as Ron Olesko pointed out above, individual listener contributions for special programs can't begin to compete with big corporate contributions, and the corporate sponsors wanted more talk radio, I guess those are the listeners who buy their products and/or services. So, WAMU pandered to those contributors, dropped most of the bluegrass, screwed over a lot of the staff, and -- they lost money like mad. Poor management, I believe the verdict was. Are we surprised?

They don't give a flying flamingo about the listeners, or their money, in comparison with their desire for corporate money; so I'm not sure any kind of protest will have any effect at all on policies although we have to try.

To paraphrase Coyote Breath, " OOOOOH! I'm in a bad mood this past decade or so, sorry for the rant."

Rita

Subject: RE: DC 'catters, be afraid (Public Radio & Folk)
From: Tannywheeler
Date: 23 Dec 04 - 01:16 PM

Yeah -- KUT here in Austin is cutting its only "folk" music program in half -- going from 6 hrs. (Sat. 10am to 4pm) to 3 hrs. (Sat. 10am to 1pm). Haven't found out whose brilliant idea that was, yet. But I've been listening since 1970. There was no full-fledged "folk program" then. Ed Miller(scottish singer and history ph.d.) was a part-time announcer for KUT then. Sometimes he just said the name of the program starting, or did station breaks. Sometimes he actually had 15 or 30 minutes to fill and was allowed to play what he chose. That was it. Eventually someone had the bright idea to actually have a whole hour (or more?) of a folk show. Several specialty music shows happened -- jazz, rock'n'roll -- we even got Saturday afternoon at the Met, now deceased. I hate the tendency to homogenize. It may stop disease in milk, but living ideas and music don't pose the same problems. How do we fix this??? (Not a despairing shrug, but a serious question.) What can this bear of little brain (and no money) do? Write irate letters, call general managers -- what else?????                Tw

Subject: RE: DC 'catters, be afraid (Public Radio & Folk)
From: GUEST,Roger in Baltimore
Date: 23 Dec 04 - 08:05 AM

I have banned WAMU from my radios since they cut out Lee Michael Dempsey. He had an hour (or two?) at lunch time on weekdays and it was a wonderful show. I wrote several letters. I have been an annual contributor to WETA for over a decade now, always in support of Mary Cliff. It is so sad to see access to good music lost so easily.

Roger in Baltimore

Subject: RE: DC 'catters, be afraid (Public Radio & Folk)
From: GUEST,Ron Davies
Date: 22 Dec 04 - 11:12 PM

Actually, WAMU, though it has already killed both its weekday bluegrass, and, especially to my annoyance, Saturday bluegrass, still has an excellent lineup most of Sunday. First comes gospel bluegrass 7 to 10 AM, then Ray Davis (bluegrass), 10 to 1 (who can always be counted on for a Civil War set, a train set, and even a "plumb pitiful" (as he calls it) set. Then Dick Spottswood 1 to 3 (already cut back an hour) with his "Obsolete Music Hour" as he calls it---the real roots of bluegrass, country, Irish etc (on record, at any rate). Then Eddie Stubbs 3 to 5---country music 40's to 60's.

That's as it stands now.

I agree a pre-emptive strike on WAMU management seems to be called for. In addition to notifying WAMU pointedly of my views on this new addition to their staff, I will alert CABOMA (Capital Area Bluegrass and Old Time Music Association)----if they don't already know.

Subject: RE: DC 'catters, be afraid (Public Radio & Folk)
From: Bill D
Date: 22 Dec 04 - 03:57 PM

it is nice that there are various internet radio options....but it is hardly convenient most of the time. I have WAMU set as default on about 8 radios in my house and vehicles, so no matter where I am, I can tune in almost instantly. So far, this is not possible with internet radio, and it is expensive and dicey to do it anywhere except right at your home computer....and satellite radio is just about the same and much more expensive to produce.

The handwriting is on the wall.... homogenization of almost every product of society..including music is getting closer. Why...one day we may have to meet somewhere and sing to each other!!!

Subject: RE: DC 'catters, be afraid (Public Radio & Folk)
From: 12string growler
Date: 22 Dec 04 - 02:58 PM

If you American 'catters do lose out to the ways of this person of dubious ways, Can I suggest you try this from the BBC here in the mother country. http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio/aod/folk.shtml
It gives ON DEMAND folk music from several different hosts.
Not limited to USA listeners, anybody can use it.

This one is broadcast LIVE, http://www.bbc.co.uk/derby/music/folkwaves/programme.shtml (then click on the "Listen" button down the page)on Mondays 7:05pm to 9:00pm Brit time (check for daylight saving time)
You'll need REALPLAYER for all the above links.
To e-mail this program "[e-mail]" Hosted by Mick Peat and Lester Simpson.


Chris

Subject: RE: DC 'catters, be afraid (Public Radio & Folk)
From: Charlie Baum
Date: 22 Dec 04 - 02:37 PM

Mick--

Mary Cliff is at WETA--the OTHER public radio station, so Ms. Mathes will not be the programming idiot who can guillotine her.

WAMU still has a bluegrass show in the wee hours of Saturday night/Sunday morning, some gospel on Sunday morning, Eddie Stubbs and Dick Spottswood and "Thistle and Shamrock" (all on Sunday), and all of those are subject to the new programmer.

I've been disappointed with mediocre public radio in the DC area ever since I moved here, and it's gotten steadily worse. (I grew up on WPKN in Bridgeport, Conn.) The one shining light in the DC area is hober.com--internet radio! (It thinks globally, but at least it's located locally.)

--Charlie Baum

Subject: RE: DC 'catters, be afraid (Public Radio & Folk)
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 22 Dec 04 - 10:33 AM

Working for a non-commercial radio station, I am very distressed at the trends to remove "specialty" programs from the airwaves.

Unfortunately, the answer seems to be listener support. We've discussed this before on Mudcat, but it bears repeating. Even though many of these radio stations are "public", they do need to make ends meet. It has become a recognized fact that it is easier to reach the largest possible audience for support - not only from the listener, but also from corporations for donor grants. It is easier to do this with a single recongizable format. When a station is sprinkled with specialty shows, it becomes a challenge to meet the numbers.   Sure, a folk music show MIGHT have good support, but it could also stand in the way of receiving a larger grant from a corporation that wants to underwrite an entire block of programming - say classical, jazz, or talk.

Satellite radio may be the future.

It is a sad fact of life these days that many "public" radio stations are forced to operate this way.

Subject: RE: DC 'catters, be afraid (Public Radio & Folk)
From: Coyote Breath
Date: 22 Dec 04 - 09:47 AM

Well, well, well! The Bob Edwards massacre continues.

I am beginning to feel that unless our LOCAL PBS outlets have something unique to offer public radio should be shunned and our attention turned to something more loyal to it's listeners' sensitivities.

When I was in South Dakota this summer, the only radio I could tune in to was the PBS outlet in Vermillion which utilized remote programming from Rapid City and elsewhere. It was the most insipid conglomeration of pablum I have ever had the misfortune to hear. No Diane Rehm, only Moring Edition, Morning Classics and the usual afternoon syndicated stuff. Evenings did have jazz for three hours a local program hosted by a twit who occasionally played something worth listening to. Plus on Tuesdays they had Piano Jazz with Marion McPartland as host, actually quite good. On the weekends they broadcast "space music" new age junk and I'm sorry but as pointless a bunch of meanderings as I have ever heard. I believe if you can't remember it enough to pick it out or hum it, it ain't music.

This is certainly a trend in public broad casting. Our local TV ouitlet still runs tons of Lawrence Welk and concerts of people whose names I can't recognize but who seem vaguely familiar and whose music recalls elevators.

OOOOOH! I'm in a bad mood this morning, sorry for the rant.

CB

Subject: RE: DC 'catters, be afraid (Public Radio & Folk)
From: Big Mick
Date: 22 Dec 04 - 07:03 AM

Ron, I just went to their website and used the "contact us" link.

If you think this woman won't go after Mary Cliff, think again.

Hello Kath! I miss you, when you coming home?

Love,

Mick

Subject: RE: DC 'catters, be afraid (Public Radio & Folk)
From: Bill D
Date: 21 Dec 04 - 11:35 PM

I suspect,from a conversation I had with Mary Cliff a year or so ago, that when Mary retires, they will simply not try to replace her. They already use that time slot to run any 'special' program they want, so as not to disturb the 'good stuff' (classical). But you sure never see a classical program pre-empted to feature a FOLK artist!

WAMU is a bit different, since they have a LOT of income from Bluegrass fans (DC being one of the biggest Bluegrass venues in the country). They are already using online programs to reduce the 'need' for *real* airtime......plus, Dick Spottswood is no spring chicken, and has moved, and is now doing his program remotely.

It looks bad....It may not happen instantly, but if Spottswood 'retires' that would leave only Eddie Stubbs, the country music guru, who is also not 'here' anymore, and gradually, they just let any mention of folk-like stuff go by way of attrition....and I'm not sure we can do anything but fight a delaying action.

Subject: RE: DC 'catters, be afraid (Public Radio & Folk)
From: KathWestra
Date: 21 Dec 04 - 10:27 PM

Killing folk and bluegrass music has been a favorite sport at WAMU-FM for years. Dick Spottswood's two hours on Sunday afternoon, and one hour of "Thistle and Shamrock" are all that's left on a station that used to air HOURS of folk and bluegrass music every single day. Lee Michael Demsey's WAMU folk show was trashed years ago--despite the protests of myself and many other financial supporters of the station. Bluegrass programming every afternoon has long since been dumped. Both "public" radio stations in Washington have gone the way of endless news/talk interspersed (in WETA's case) by classical pablum (the same 25 or so tired old warhorses that you can hear on any greatest classical hits compilations. I think the only reason Mary Cliff's folk music show, "Traditions," is still on the air is that they wouldn't dare mess with something that's been an institution for 30 years, and Mary's history with the station includes being WETA's shop steward. Not a combination to trifle with. It is worth noting, though, that the station did nothing at all to mark Mary's three decades of contribution to folk music programming earlier this year. That took a privately sponsored celebration coordinated by Cathy Fink & Marcy Marxer. Folks like Detroit's Ms. Mathes are where public radio is going all over the country. Driven by market research rather than listeners. A sad thing! D.C. has TWO public radio stations, and they air the same program(Morning Edition) at exactly the same time. They air All Things Considered from 4-6:30 and from 5-8:00 p.m., respectively. How dumb is that? Up here in my new home in Maine, the big-city news-talk trends have not yet gained a foothold, thank goodness. Maine public radio still has a wide variety of non-news programming, and a great variety of music. There's also an alternative community radio station that plays four full hours of terrific folk music on Saturday mornings. I discovered it while roaming the dial a couple of weeks ago and hearing Coope Boyes & Simpson singing their incredible harmonies on MY radio dial. Yippee.

Subject: RE: DC 'catters, be afraid (Public Radio & Folk)
From: GUEST,Ron Davies
Date: 21 Dec 04 - 10:02 PM

Mick--

I (and some others) have been substantial contributors to WAMU for years--more even than to WETA, since WETA seems to have been sliding into the ABYSS OF THE NAVEL-GAZERS recently. I would be only too glad to send a pointed missive to WAMU, in case they have any thoughts of following WDET into mediocrity or worse.

What e-mail address did you use?

Subject: RE: DC 'catters, be afraid
From: Bill D
Date: 21 Dec 04 - 08:02 PM

oh, LORDY!...say it isn't so! This is serious......

Subject: RE: DC 'catters, be afraid
From: Bobert
Date: 21 Dec 04 - 07:59 PM

The Dick Spotswood Show is history...

B~

Subject: RE: DC 'catters, be afraid
From: Big Mick
Date: 21 Dec 04 - 12:50 PM

I have just sent the following to WAMU, and would suggest that folks from every corner of the globe do the same.

All the best,

Mick

I have been an online listener of yours, a fan of the Diane Rehm show, and a supporter of public radio for years. I must tell you that I am troubled by your hiring of Caryn Mathes. This person, in the Detroit marketplace that you hired her from, was responsible for the destruction of quality public programming. She dropped such perennial favorites as "Car Talk", as well as the long running, hugely popular, and leading fundraiser, "Folks Like Us". As a result of her actions, I ceased to support or listen to WDET. Further, I, and many like me, will never contribute again to that station.

Your marketplace has one of the largest folk community's in the country. I intend to tell them of this move and it's possible ramifications.

Your station has always been a beacon in the public broadcast world. I sincerely hope this isn't an omen of things to come.

Mick Lane

Subject: DC 'catters, be afraid
From: Cool Beans
Date: 21 Dec 04 - 12:39 PM

Caryn Mathes, the station manager at Detroit's WDET who killed the longtime folk and bluegrass programs, is on her way to WAMU. Be afraid, be very afraid.