Lyr/Tune Add: John Appleby

Subject: RE: Lyr/Tune Add: John Appleby
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Sep 20 - 09:54 AM

I remember this sung by the Kentish duo Tundra (Doug and Sue Hudson) many years ago. If I remember rightly there was no chorus and the last line of each verse was repeated.

Subject: RE: Lyr/Tune Add: John Appleby
From: Susanne (skw)
Date: 30 Dec 06 - 07:46 PM

Thanks, Malcolm. I didn't know what to make of the term and decided to skip it ...

Subject: RE: Lyr/Tune Add: John Appleby
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 30 Dec 06 - 05:42 PM

"espan"'s 'true transcribed lyrics' contain even more mis-hearings than Susanne spotted. The most obvious is the bizarre 'With washbutton most of his kin' - that should, of course, be 'With Wastebutt and most of his kin' (Broadwood & Fuller-Maitland, English County Songs, 1893, 132-133).

Subject: Lyr Add: JOHN APPLEBY (from Bodleian)
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 30 Dec 06 - 11:04 AM

Bodleian Library Broadside Ballads has this, at Johnson Ballads fol. 75: Note there are two more verses than in the versions posted above, and numerous small differences in wording. I had to guess at a couple of phrases that were barely legible, and I have marked these with (?).

JOHN APPLEBY. A Whimsical Old Ballad, Sung by Mr. Fawcett.

1. John Appleby was a man's name, and he lived near the sign of the kettle.
His wife was called Joan Quiet, because she could scold but a little.
John to the alehouse would go. Joan to the tavern would run.
John would get drunk with the women, and Joan would get drunk with the men.
Sing tol de rol lol &c.

2. John would spend his own two pence and Joan would spend her groat.
Joan would pawn her best jacket and John would pawn his best coat.
John set the porridge pot by. Joan sent the brass kettle to sell.
The money came readily in and they merrily spent it in ale.
Sing tol de rol lol &c.

3. Thou art a base hussy, says John, for selling my pewter and brass.
And thou art a cuckold, says Joan, for thy ears are as long as an ass.
I'll bang (?) thy back, hussy, says John, if you give me another cross word,
And for the (?) fury and vapours, I tell thee I owe not a t——.
Sing tol de rol lol &c.

4. John he was no great eater, and Joan she was no glutton,
And for to tickle their maws, they bought them a shoulder of mutton.
John in an angry mode took the mutton in his hand,
And out of the window he threw it, but Joan she was at a stand.
Sing tol de rol lol &c.

5. Joan she was at a stand, but of it she made no matter,
Immediately took in her hand and after it threw the platter.
An old woman coming by, and seeing the mutton lay,
Catched up the platter and mutton, and with them she ran away.
Sing tol de rol lol &c.

6. The neighbours came running in, and thinking to end the quarrel,
But before they had half done, they left ne'er a drop in the barrel.
They banged the barrel about, pulled out the spigot too.
We'll all get drunk tonight for what have we else to do?
Sing tol de rol lol &c.

Published Novr. 20, 1805, by Laurie & Whittle, 53, Fleet Street, London.

Subject: RE: Lyr/Tune Add: John Appleby
From: Susanne (skw)
Date: 22 Dec 06 - 07:42 PM

Thanks, espan. I hear some small differences, though:

In verse 3
A woman delete: waspassin' by
Seeing the mutton there lay
Caught up delete: themutton and platter
And with it she ran away

In verse 5
The neighbours came flocking in
There wasn't if just a commotion
With washbutton most of his kin
All aiming to get at the lotion
They pulled the old barrel about
And pulled the spigot out too

Subject: Lyr Add: JOHN APPLEBY
From: espan
Date: 17 Dec 06 - 04:47 PM

Here are the true transcribed lyrics from "The Tale of Ale" (Vic Gannon)

John Appleby was the man's name
He lived at the sign of the Kettle
His wife she was called Joan Quiet
Because she could scold but little
John to the alehouse would go
Joan to the juice shop would run
John would get drunk with the women
And Joan would get drunk with the men

CHORUS
Fi diddle-ly diddle-ly di
Fi diddle-ly diddle-ly di
Fi diddle-ly diddle-ly di
Fi diddle-ly diddle-ly di

Now Johnny was no great eater
And Joan she wasn't a glutton
And so for to tickle their jaws
They brought in a shoulder of mutton
Johnny so angry a mood
Caught up the mutton in hand
And out of the window he threw it
Where Joan she was apt to stand

CHORUS

Now Joan she was apt to stand
Didn't know what to make of the matter
So catching it up in her hand
After he threw the platter
A woman was passin' by
Seeing the mutton there lay
Caught up the mutton and platter
And with it ran away
CHORUS

Now Johnny had got a full barrel
Was seasoned with home grown hops
And so for to finish the quarrel,
This question to Joan he pops
Should we spigot the home brew Joan
All of our neighbors regale
Though we have lost our mutton
We have not lost our ale
CHORUS

The neighbours came flocking in
There wasn't but just a commotion
With washbutton most of his kin
All aiming to get at the lotion
They pulls the old barrel about
And pulled out the spigot too
We'll all get drunk tonight
For what else have we to do

Subject: RE: LYR&MUS ADD - John Appleby
From: Ian Kirk
Date: 23 Dec 98 - 01:22 PM

Hi Bruce

I just dropped in on your web site. It's a great piece of work. I look forward to browsing in more detail.

Merry Xmas

Ian

Subject: RE: LYR&MUS ADD - John Appleby
From: Bruce O.
Date: 22 Dec 98 - 05:13 PM

I shouldn't have said that "John Appleby" was a reworking of Parker's "John and Joan". "John Appleby" was based upon the former, but proceeds to a very different conclusion. I've added the songbook text of "John Apppleby" and the broadside text of "John and Joan" to the Scarce Songs 2 file on my website for comparison. [www.erols.com/olsonw]

---

Bruce Olson died October 31, 2003. His Website is now at Mudcat, available in our QuickLinks dropdown menu or Click Here.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: LYR&MUS ADD - John Appleby
From: Ian Kirk
Date: 22 Dec 98 - 02:43 PM

Thanks for adding the line breaks Joe. I read Roger's mail on how to do it properly and the next tune I post will feature same. May also experiment with HTML.

Finding the Mudcat cafe has been a real revelation and the knowledge the subscribers can pass on is a never ending fascination. I have been motivated to learn how to write music and I am taking some lessons from an excellent music teacher who is also a good friend of mine I'm pleased to say. So I hope I can help with a few tunes and lyrics I know of that don't appear in the Digitrad Database.

Bruce - you are absolutely right the tune in the Hammond and Gardiner MSS is different. This tune I collected is from a version of this song I have on an cassette called the Tale of Ale - a random collection of songs, prose and poetry about BEER! a subject close to my heart. I don't know whether it is still available I got it from a stall at the Sweeps festival in Sevenoaks Kent. It was produced by Free Reed, The Old Chapel, Belper, Derby, Derbyshire, England DE56 1AZ

The words are more or less exactly the same as the version in H and G but the notes to the version I have heard say it was collected from the singing of Sam Willett the "singing baker of Cuckfield (Sussex)" who gave it to Lucy Broadwood

Best regards and Merry Xmas

Ian

Subject: RE: LYR&MUS ADD - John Appleby
From: Bruce O.
Date: 20 Dec 98 - 05:41 PM

The song from Hammond' MSS in Frank Purlsow's 'Marrow Bones', p. 46, 1965, has some differrences.

"John Appleby", six verses of eight lines, is in 'The Universal Songster', I, p. 385, 1828 (without music). There's also a copy, five verses of 4 lines, in Alfred Williams' 'Folk-Songs of the Upper Thames', p. 225, 1923 (also without music).

The song is a reworking of a broadside ballad by Martin Parker that was entered in the Stationers Register on Sept. 15, 1634. It's "John and Joan: Or, a mad couple well met", ZN3079 in my broadside ballad index at www.erols.com/olsonw.

Subject: Lyr/Tune Add: JOHN APPLEBY
From: Ian Kirk - Kent, England
Date: 20 Dec 98 - 12:25 PM

Drawn from the Hammond and Gardiner collection of songs from England collected between 1906 and 1908. The notes say this song used to be popular with Kentish Hop Pickers. There is a theory it is a disguised political song directed against Oliver Cromwell and his wife.
The ryhthm is seldom found in English traditional music being in the nature of an Irish Slip-jig or Hop-jig. The tune is probably much older than the words.


X:0
T:John Appleby
L:1/8
M:9/8
K:F
A3 FDD |\
DDC D2 D CDE |\
FFE FFA FDD |\
DDC D2 D CDE |\
F2 E FF z/2 FFFF |\
GA c2 FG ABA |\
G A2 FFF GGG |\
AAA FDD DEF |\
E2 ||\
%CHORUS
A FDD D |\
DC D2 DC DE F2 |\
EFF AFD DDD |\
C D2 DCD E F2 |\
EFF ||



John Appleby

John Appleby was a man's name
He lived at the sign of the Fiddle
His wife was called Joan Quiet
Because she did scold but little
John to the alehouse did go
Joan to the tavern did run
John would get drunk with the women
And Joan would get drunk with the men

CHORUS
Fi diddly diddly di
Fi diddly diddly dee
Fi diddly diddley di
Fi diddly diddly dee

Now John was no great eater
Joan she was no glutton
And for to tickle their jaws
She brought a shoulder of mutton
John being in angry mood
Took up the muttton in hand
And out of the window he flung it
While Joan was left to stand

CHORUS

So Joan was standing by
Sho thought it didn't matter
She never said a word
But after it throwed the platter
A woman was coming by
Seeing the mutton their lay
Took up the mutton and platter
And with it ran away

CHORUS

Neighbours were coming in
Thinking to end the quarrel
Good Lord when they had done
There wasn't a drop in the barrel
They banged the old barrel about
Pulled out the spigot too
We'll all get drunk tonight
For what else have we to do

CHORUS


Hope the ABC work for y'all.I think I got it right but if it sound like some Stockhausen would have been proud of - he probably was.

Line breaks <br> added - Joe Offer-