BS: Cameron wins

Subject: RE: BS: Cameron wins
From: GUEST,Boab
Date: 10 Dec 05 - 02:44 AM

Oor wee John Cameron micht come back an' bite his arse.....

Subject: RE: BS: Cameron wins
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 09 Dec 05 - 07:18 PM

I will of course now immediatly rush out and join.

That'll learn 'em...

Subject: RE: BS: Cameron wins
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 09 Dec 05 - 06:48 PM

well he didn't bother sending me one

he's not completely daft

Subject: RE: BS: Cameron wins
From: The Shambles
Date: 09 Dec 05 - 06:35 PM

Negative, Roger, and I'm really disappointed. As a member of the Conservative Party, I feel he should have consulted me first LOL.

He was none too complementary about you in this letter.

I can only assume that this letter - inviting me to join the party - was sent me because I live in a marginal Labour seat and one that is no doubt a number one Tory target........................I will of course now immediatly rush out and join.

Subject: RE: BS: Cameron wins
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 09 Dec 05 - 03:03 PM

Given that Tony has taken Labour so far right that there was really no room for any kind of sane politics to his right - without getting into the kind iof crazy stuff they have across the Atlantic, which just wouldn't have a chance here (thank God and touch wood) - it makes sense for the Tories under Spliffy Cameron to move back to the moderate right-of-centre position that Blair has colonised.

So instead of "vote for us because we believe in different things" it becomes "vote for us, because we can do the same things better, and it's time for a few new faces".

What's the betting they'll change the name, as a kind of symbolic equivalent to the way Tony dished Clause Four? "Vote One Nation".

Subject: RE: BS: Cameron wins
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 09 Dec 05 - 02:13 PM

anybody see the lad at the despatch box.....?

you could almost feel Davis's knuckles whitening - thinking when is this bastard going into attack mode?

Cameron and Blair will combust spontaneously in efforts to be the most unctuous people on the planet.....two public schoolboys sharing a study?

Gosh you've got some nice things in your hamper, what did you do in the hols?, oh the old man had a war and I was helping out making myself useful - licking stamps, licking arses.....

Subject: RE: BS: Cameron wins
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 09 Dec 05 - 01:36 PM

Negative, Roger, and I'm really disappointed. As a member of the Conservative Party, I feel he should have consulted me first LOL.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Cameron wins
From: Rasener
Date: 09 Dec 05 - 01:14 PM

Creep :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Cameron wins
From: The Shambles
Date: 09 Dec 05 - 10:24 AM

I got a letter from Mr Camreron this morning? Did anyone else?

Subject: RE: BS: Cameron wins
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 09 Dec 05 - 09:31 AM

"the Folk world that we love has a much greater measure of honesty".

Which is probably why Toady B Liar is trying to legislate it out of existence.

I feel inclined to vote for anybody who will reverse that policy.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Cameron wins
From: Mr Red
Date: 08 Dec 05 - 02:15 PM

Cllr

You wouldn't expect (you didn't) everyone to be for, or against - some of us are happy to knock any politician - the bigger and more distant the target the better the sport.

Your point was to start the thread - and the debate.

The debate is started. I'm anti - the hype, the cynisism, the spin, the hypocrasy, sleaze, bribery, the yawn. All part of the terrorTORY but it has been turned into a science and I despise the respectability that such mendacity has aquired.

Blair has been somewhat better at it of late but give the new kid a few months..................

the Folk world that we love has a much greater measure of honesty.


Now you see why I prefer levity - it rewards more.

Subject: RE: BS: Cameron wins
From: The Shambles
Date: 08 Dec 05 - 09:30 AM

I think this thread should be closed - in the interests of free speech.........

Subject: RE: BS: Cameron wins
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 08 Dec 05 - 08:55 AM

One thing that should now be apparent to everyone but the lunatic fringes across the whole political spectrum, is that Blairite government must go.

Never before in this country has it been possible for a person to be arrested, tried, and convicted for reading out a list of names of British soldiers killed in the line of duty, in front of the national memorial to our war dead.

This, to me, represents the death of free speech, and the right to peacefully protest (please excuse the Shatnerism), and is, IMO, the prelude to some even nastier legislation depriving us of other basic civil rights.

The worst thing about this is that these policies are consistent with the actions of a fascist regime, yet there are still many who support Blair because they are scared of a right wing government.

David Cameron appears, to me, to be another Blair, concerned with the promotion of his image and personality, and woefully uninformed as to the issues that need addressing.

It seems likely that Labour and Conservative will move closer together, with the poor LibDems crushed between, and if this is so, choice will be more limited than ever before.

Proportional representation will still be avoided by both main parties, as the only ones that want it are those who could not expect to govern in any other way.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Cameron wins
From: Cllr
Date: 07 Dec 05 - 03:34 PM

I think you missed the point Mr Red unless you are just trying to be funny and publicise your own web site (very good by the way).
I started the thread after it was annouced that David Cameron had one the leadership of the conservative party.
78% of the conservative party voted and 67.6% of those that voted voted for him.

Labour or rather New Labour won spectacularly well in 1997 and it was a combination of events. It would be nice to able to say which one factor over all was the main contributer but a lot of this is open to debate. I believe we have started in setting up the "factors" that we have control over and there is still a lot of work to do.
I have previously been quite succesful in adopting a consensus aproach within comittee work but that was admittedly within a local government setting and not in full council either, it will beinteresting to see if parliment will change to adopt this aproach in the chamber. If it is achieved, (and it will take more than one person on either side of the political party spectrum to realise this)it will be the most fundamental change in uk politics since the creation of the Labour party.

Subject: RE: BS: Cameron wins
From: Mr Red
Date: 07 Dec 05 - 07:47 AM

we loose? come on Cllr - you would expect nothing less.

see cresby.com for my position on the political spectrum. DON'T ASSUME.

and if Davids D & C were dropped of the edge of the political precipice who would we hit first?

Subject: RE: BS: Cameron wins
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Dec 05 - 05:57 AM

The BNP will only gain the voters who are so far right their brains have fallen over the edge of the cliff. The best thing about BNP results is

a) They let you know which parts of the country are best avoided. Luckily they are usually 'up norf' so no loss there then!

I'll get me whippet.

Subject: RE: BS: Cameron wins
From: Paco Rabanne
Date: 07 Dec 05 - 05:03 AM

Proportional representation, the true path!

Subject: RE: BS: Cameron wins
From: The Shambles
Date: 07 Dec 05 - 04:55 AM

It could have been Little Jimmy Osmond?

Subject: RE: BS: Cameron wins
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 07 Dec 05 - 04:39 AM

Well I, for one, think it's "s good thing" that Cameron won. I think it indicates at least a recognition by the party that it needs to change; whether Cameron is the man to do it, we don't really know yet. But assuming that he somehow does manage to improve the Cons (as in "to bring them closer to the reality of what the electorate needs/wants"), then this can only be a good thing, whether they get in power at the next elections or not. At the very least they will make a more effective opposition, and that is something we sorely missed in the last few years of Bliar running rampant.

I am not a Tory, and not a Labourite either. But I do believe in a rigorous demopcratic process of checks and balances, and I would welcome a stronger opposition than what the Tories had to offer in recent years.

Subject: RE: BS: Cameron wins
From: Paco Rabanne
Date: 07 Dec 05 - 03:00 AM

I wish I'd just written all that Villan!! I also agree with another poster above, that after another few years of muslim terrorist activities in England, and the continuing clean up at the BNP, Mr Griffiths party will grab a lot of votes at the next election. Look what happened in Holland over the last few years.

Subject: RE: BS: Cameron wins
From: Rasener
Date: 07 Dec 05 - 02:18 AM

I think the biggest problem any party will have to deal with, is the almighty big mess that Labour will leave.

All I can say, is that whoever sorts out beaurocracy and red tape that this country is choking on, will get my vote.

There are some things that are so simple to see and not necessarily easy to put right. However to put them right is top priority.

Sort out the NHS and get the hospitals safe and fit fot human consumption. Genuinly bring down the waiting time for operations, instead of disguising the truth with bullshit statistics, that take people away from doing their jobs properly. Get rid of all time wasting statistical jobs. Get rid of all pompous pratts who think they are good managers.

Sort out the nightmare dilemma facing care and nursing homes. A lot more money needs to be spent in this area. Get the staff back to working with the residents of these homes, instead of them worrying about petty rules and regulations, that stop real work being done. Get rid of statistical pen pushing staff that do not contribute to the running of each home.

Sort out the stupid situation with Dentists. Most people cannot afford private dentistry, so get it stopped and pay the dentist to do what they are doing privately for the good of all people in this country.

Get rid of all these blood sucking councilers who do not contribute to the improvements needed in all areas of services to the community. Cut the crap out and sort out services to the public.

Sort the cost of housing out, so that people can afford to buy their own home. Stop banks from giving more and more loans to gullible people who do not have the money to pay back their debts. Stop theses greedy banks from making such obscene profits.

Get the hell out of Iraq and stop Prime Ministers sucking up to America. Make them work on putting our own house in order instead of interfering in the problems of other countries. Stop Mp's being able to spend disgusting amounts of money on war mongering and put that money into inprovements in our own country. Stop paying MP's for flights and hotels and expenses abroad. Stop Tony Blair from trying to be a worldwide prima Donna. Make him be accountable for all the things going wrong in this country and spend his time here.

Give the police the power and money to do what most of us want but everybody seems to be scared of enforcing "Law and Order"

Stop the silly situation of people suing for the slightest hing that has gone wrong in their life. It is absurd. Oh theses scisoors have just cut me, I will sue the company who manufactured them!!!!!!

All of these things are really what the Labour party should be doing but are not.

Subject: RE: BS: Cameron wins
From: The Shambles
Date: 07 Dec 05 - 02:05 AM

I thought it was Carol Thatcher who won?

Subject: RE: BS: Cameron wins
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Dec 05 - 09:17 PM

New generation? New thinking? He says he wants to improve public services and cut taxes! Yes, and I want to be 38 years of age again!
Blithering nonsense. They've learned nothing.

Subject: RE: BS: Cameron wins
From: Teribus
Date: 06 Dec 05 - 09:13 PM

Hey guys you are missing the point by the time the next election in the UK comes around the current LABOUR government will have screwed things up so badly the BNP will make a decent showing at the pols purely because the British electorate will have had enough of the tired old Tory v Labour bullshit which always ends up with the same confusion and nothingness.

Subject: RE: BS: Cameron wins
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 06 Dec 05 - 09:02 PM

You mean to say it was written tongue in cheek, Bunnahabhain? Well, who could have imagined such a thing...

Subject: RE: BS: Cameron wins
From: Bunnahabhain
Date: 06 Dec 05 - 08:37 PM

That Phillip Pullman article, in McGrath post two above, although nominally aimed at the Tories reads like an Old Labour manifesto, and I think that is the intended audience. It was in the Guardian, scarceley the best way to get it seen by as many of the conservative party as possible!

The largest Conservative idea of all though, is that of a small state, not the all emcompassing behemoth envisigned above.

Subject: RE: BS: Cameron wins
From: Folkiedave
Date: 06 Dec 05 - 07:24 PM

I was once lucky enough to be given a guided tour of the Houses of Parliament by Dennis Skinner.

"This is the House of Lords" he said, "Let me tell you why I want to abolish it".

Mind - he always said he would retire at the same age as a miner had to. (He is 73).

Subject: RE: BS: Cameron wins
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 06 Dec 05 - 07:18 PM

The winning game would be to position the New Conservatives to the left of New Labour, which wouldn't be hard.

Promise to put income tax up to the levels of previous Tory governments, and spend it on getting decent services. Combine that with a pledge to cut the obsessive paperwork loaded on every variety of public servant, and to restore some version of the local business rate so that newly envigorated local councils can provide whatever level of services their voters require.

Here's a thought-provoking article Philip Pullman wrote along these lines a couple of months ago - I look forward to the dukedom this manifesto advice will bring.

It'll be interesting to see if they've got the nerve to do it. I doubt it somehow. But then if someone had suggested back in the Eighties that Labour would sweep back into power by moving to the right of Thatcher on a number of policies, that would have seemed pretty implausable.

Subject: RE: BS: Cameron wins
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Dec 05 - 07:06 PM

Disagree entirely Villain. Labour got in because of disgust at Cons and what Maggie then Major did. And if there was effort Labour way, John Smith would have won before Bliar - many thought he was bound for the next PM before he died. Possibly Kinnock even did the work. Blair has only ever been a parasite but maybe has made Lab more appealing to the greedy - would be Cons may like him.

Cons only got in and lasted so long before at the disgust of Labour with the strikes etc. and fear another Lab goverment would produce the same.

Subject: RE: BS: Cameron wins
From: Rasener
Date: 06 Dec 05 - 06:48 PM

The only reason Labour got back in was because Tony Blair came on the scene. He was the only person who was capable of getting them back into power. I do not think Labour will find another blair in the next 20 years. These poeple only appear once in a blue moon.
Harold Wilson was the last capable person before Blair.

Conservatives
Maggie Thatcher was a once in a blue moon leader, like Tony Blair. Cameron is the first person in the conservatives that makes me sit up and listen. He is young and only time will tell if he has the skills of the above PM's

Why do leaders have to be old farts.

At some point each great leader will inevitably lose the following becuase people want to see fresh faces. That doesn't make them a bad leader.

Anything but Gordon Brown.

Subject: RE: BS: Cameron wins
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Dec 05 - 05:46 PM

No point in serious political discussion here, then

Subject: RE: BS: Cameron wins
From: Sttaw Legend
Date: 06 Dec 05 - 05:09 PM

John Prescott for PM no question about it

Subject: RE: BS: Cameron wins
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 06 Dec 05 - 04:32 PM

well i think the tories have blown it.....made a really bad decision.

This Cameron character will reveal something that will scandalise the blue runses within a week or two - and all the skeletons like Tebbit will be heard saying that he should be birched within an inch of his life for having an I-pod, or agreeing that gays should be allowed driving licences.

Davies on the other hand was a really nasty piece of work, vicious as a polecat in debate and slightly to the right Heinrich Himmler - just the guy to rally the troops.

Clark was always beyond the pale since he tipped Maggie the black spot. Plus there are enough people around to remember he was sodding useless at every job they gave him.

I suppose I ought to be cheered immensely.

Subject: RE: BS: Cameron wins
From: Rasener
Date: 06 Dec 05 - 02:33 PM

I voted for Harold Wilson and Tony Blair, but I am conservative. At the time, I felt that there wasn't anybody that touched them from any party. They had the charisma.
However, I would not vote for George (oops sorry) Gordon Brown. He doesn't impress me one bit. He doesn't have the charisma.

Blimey there was a politician George Brown. It was a hoot watching him get wound up by the interviewers. You could see his blood pressure rising on every question. A bit like John Prescott.

Subject: RE: BS: Cameron wins
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Dec 05 - 02:09 PM

I agree with teribus. And if Labour had the balls to put them forward the tories wouldn't win the next election.

Subject: RE: BS: Cameron wins
From: Gervase
Date: 06 Dec 05 - 01:09 PM

he poor bastard!
I'm not generally fond of Tories (Mike - you're excepted!), but I feel sorry for this one. So young and full of enthusiasm, and there he is, trying to change a party that is so, well...conservative. The average age of party members is over 70, don't forget.
With Blair it took a year of hard fighting and the pain of the clause IV issue finally to change things, and even that was the culmination of a long process that started with Kinnock and continued with John Smith.
Poor old Cameron's inherited a bunch of lunatics prone to fighting like rats in a sack, who believe what's written in the Express and the Mail and who aren't really used to thinking about change in a positive light. He's got his work cut out.

Subject: RE: BS: Cameron wins
From: Rasener
Date: 06 Dec 05 - 12:38 PM

Mine is care for me LOL :-)

Thats it Gareth Barry for Labour. He's got the balls to lift things higher than most people :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Cameron wins
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 06 Dec 05 - 12:04 PM

Policies are often nonsense IMO. I remember (I think) Maggie blaming a recession as a world recession. That was perhaps fair but hmm, how can you claim to work local policies, ie. one single countries but then say for example when something goes wrong (at a guess) it was Ronald Reagans fault really. It's a blame game and claiming you can control economics that way is the fault. The power needed does not exist to not be effected world wide.

The policy that makes sense to me is to try to care for all.

Subject: RE: BS: Cameron wins
From: Bunnahabhain
Date: 06 Dec 05 - 11:48 AM

It's very simple.

Short of a series of miracles, Gordon Brown will become PM as people realise that he has put up taxes, and borrowed heavily, and has got very little improvement for an awful lot of money.

That's why he's not the person to lead Labour.

David Cameron should have no difficulty in beating him , assuming the parlimentary party will support him for a reasonable length of time and let him develop some policies.

Subject: RE: BS: Cameron wins
From: Teribus
Date: 06 Dec 05 - 11:44 AM

Hell yes, the Beast of Bolsover, I haven't heard of him for ages. I think Ken Livingstone should have a go and of course we shouldn't rule out Clare Short, or a George Galloway truimphally returned to the fold.

Subject: RE: BS: Cameron wins
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 06 Dec 05 - 11:28 AM

I don't think Gordon Brown is the person to lead Labour,

Who is villain? The last one amazed me to as I used to despise him but his Iraq stance impressed me was Robin Cook never imagined him having the balls, maybe John Smith - I seem to pick on the dead guys. Is Dennis Skinner still going? That at least would be interesting.

Subject: RE: BS: Cameron wins
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 06 Dec 05 - 11:16 AM

The Labour Party do, becuase they won't be in power after the next general election.

So Gareth Barry beckhamed the penalty, Villan ... that's no cause to completely lose the plot ... ;o)

Subject: RE: BS: Cameron wins
From: Rasener
Date: 06 Dec 05 - 11:01 AM

I don't think Gordon Brown is the person to lead Labour, so if he takes over, it will be easy for DC

Subject: RE: BS: Cameron wins
From: The Shambles
Date: 06 Dec 05 - 10:53 AM

Tory Boy rides again.

Subject: RE: BS: Cameron wins
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 06 Dec 05 - 10:28 AM

It does not suprise me - more a case of what I expected. Still think you best bet would have been Clarke though. Time will tell but I think the biggest question remains how long TB can retain his ways and at what point the country finaly does turn on him. Whatever it will not be a great victory Cons would have even won last election if there was not the fear of to the right of where TB moved Labour.

Subject: RE: BS: Cameron wins
From: Rasener
Date: 06 Dec 05 - 10:28 AM

The Labour Party do, becuase they won't be in power after the next general election.

Subject: RE: BS: Cameron wins
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Dec 05 - 10:20 AM

who gives a toss?

Subject: RE: BS: Cameron wins
From: Hamish
Date: 06 Dec 05 - 10:19 AM

Well you won't get me responding.

Subject: BS: Cameron wins
From: Cllr
Date: 06 Dec 05 - 10:17 AM

I just thought I would start the inevitable thread...