BS: What is America Doing?

Subject: RE: BS: What is America Doing?
From: Paul Burke
Date: 03 Aug 06 - 10:29 AM

Isn't this thread about Boing, Boing Miss American Doing?

Subject: RE: BS: What is America Doing?
From: Folkiedave
Date: 03 Aug 06 - 05:59 AM

I have a solution to the question why the Americans used Prestwick.

It is simple really - the bombs are transported by a firm called Atlas who have a hub at Prestwick. Presumably it never occurred to them that people would protest!!

They now go via Mildenhall Suffolk.

The BBC correspondent Bob Simpson died recently. When he was in Bagdad at the start of the first Gulf War his father sent him a telegram reading "Congratulations on being bombed by the Americans. It happened to me three times during WWII".

Look out Mildenhall.

Subject: RE: BS: What is America Doing?
From: ard mhacha
Date: 03 Aug 06 - 04:23 AM

How childish can they get, the House of Representatives have reversed the massive decision for their Restaurant to once again revert to `French Fries` from the really stupid `freedom fries`.

The leaders of the " Free World"?, the mind boggles.

Subject: RE: BS: What is America Doing?
From: Greg F.
Date: 02 Aug 06 - 09:41 AM

Jaysus, don't try to change Douggie's mind with facts!

Come to think of it, that should be the GOP/BuShite motto:

Don't Try To Change My Mind With Facts

Has a nice ring to it. If we all chipped in, we could get T-shirts printed up for Douggie, Old Fart & Co.

Subject: RE: BS: What is America Doing?
From: Folkiedave
Date: 02 Aug 06 - 06:11 AM

......President Bush and Mr. Tony Blair are doing all they can to bring a peaceful resolution to the conflict.

This thread started by pointing out that America was sending blockbuster bombs to Israel.

Seems a funny way to bring about a peaceful resolution to me. But then I don't have George's intellect.

Subject: RE: BS: What is America Doing?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 01 Aug 06 - 10:46 PM

Sure: the peace of the grave.

Subject: RE: BS: What is America Doing?
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Aug 06 - 04:23 PM

Guys if you care to take the time you will see that President Bush and Mr. Tony Blair are doing all they can to bring a peaceful resolution to the conflict.

Subject: RE: BS: What is America Doing?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 31 Jul 06 - 05:24 PM

Ti set the record a bit straighter:

It wasn't Hezbollah started lobbing bombs and rockets around this time.   Hezbollah carried out a cross border raid on July 12th in which two Israeli soldiers were caotured and two killed. There was then a reprisal cross-border Israeli raid in which five Israeli's were killed. Nasty stuff, but soldiers fighting soldiers isn't "terrorism".   Lots of nasty things aren't terrorism, and we should use words accurately.

Then on July 13th came a wave of Israeli aerial raids and bombardment in which Beirut International Airport, way to the North of Hezbollah's stamping ground, was attacked; and about 40 Lebanese were killed in various air attacks, many of them civilians with no involvemnt in Hezbollah. Only then did Hezbollah start sending over the Katyusha rocketsd in reprisal.

Those Hezbollah reprisals were clearly terrorism - but the same is true of the precipitating Israeli air strikes terrorism. It's terrorism when attacks are aimed at civilian targets to achieve political ends, and both sides have clearly been doing that.

Subject: RE: BS: What is America Doing?
From: DougR
Date: 31 Jul 06 - 01:21 PM

You're part right, Ard. America is behind Israel destroying the Terrorists. We are not behind destroying Lebanon. If that country is destroyed blame Hezbolla, not the U. S. - not Israel.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: What is America Doing?
From: Folkiedave
Date: 31 Jul 06 - 11:07 AM

I have liked virtually all the Americans I have met. They are affable, generous and hospitable to a fault.

What I can't understand is that none of them have ever voted for Bush or in his day Reagan. And mostly they seem almost anarchists in their political lives.

Subject: RE: BS: What is America Doing?
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 09:24 PM

Just as well Americans don't like to travel much as their president is making sure there are less and less places where they'll be tolerated.

Subject: RE: BS: What is America Doing?
From: Folkiedave
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 07:37 PM

Subject: RE: BS: What is America Doing?
From: JohnInKansas - PM
Date: 27 Jul 06 - 07:21 PM

tells how bombs that the America is supplying to Israel passed through Scotland.

Actually, it doesn't.

Actually it does. It said:

"Residents and politicians in Ayrshire have voiced anger after the US used Prestwick Airport as a stopover while transporting bombs to Israel".

Subject: RE: BS: What is America Doing?
From: Folkiedave
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 06:01 PM

To JohninKansas
Try this story from Reuters

I hope this will be sufficient evidence - if the USA president apologises for it happening I reckon most Americans would tend towards the belief give or take a bit now again, all sides being equal and taking in both points of view, that it actually did happen. Not that that would necessarily reach Kansas I guess.

However there is another story here:

http://news.scotsman.com/index.cfm?id=1104532006
which tells how the Irish Government refused the flights permission to land at Shannon Airport.

I did give the link to say it had happened and I am sorry you did not feel able to accept the truth of that report. I personally feel that the BBC is a reliable source.

The New York Times has the story and so does the Jerusalem Post. A simple Google search produces thousands of newspaper stories confirming it happened.

Sorry you don't have Google where you live.

But no doubt you are able to live with that too.

Subject: RE: BS: What is America Doing?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 04:20 PM

Qana is the same place as the place where the Wedding Feast at Cana took place.

It's also the same place where, on April 18th 1996, Israel shelled a United Nations post where refugees were sheltering, killing 100 people and wounding another 100.

"War on terror"...

Subject: RE: BS: What is America Doing?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 02:58 PM

Well America apologising for sending the bombs through Prestwick at least stops JohninKansas (27/06) saying it didn't happen

Folkie Dave:

I DID NOT SAY IT DIDN'T HAPPEN. I said the article linked gave NO INFORMATION about what might have happened.

I understand that you are in the midst of a passionate rant about "something," but as yet I have seen NO FACTUAL INFORMATION about what is going on. Real informatin may be available to you; but it has not appeared where it's accessible to me.

And I do find your gratuitous misquote insulting and offensive.

I'll live with it.

John

Subject: RE: BS: What is America Doing?
From: Folkiedave
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 10:50 AM

She is not welcome because there is little point in allowing a so-called peacekeeper in to negotiate a peace when that country's President is supplying one of the parties with all sorts of supplies including weaponry and fuel, not to say blockbuster bombs.

How many blockbusters does it take to demoilsh one missile launching site?

Subject: RE: BS: What is America Doing?
From: ard mhacha
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 08:35 AM

Sadly the death toll has now risen to 54 including 37 children, large numbers of protesters have gathered at Prestwick Airport.             Rice says that she is not going to Beirut at this time, she should have said the PM of Lebanon told her, she would not be welcome.

Subject: RE: BS: What is America Doing?
From: ard mhacha
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 04:42 AM

There will be a protest this morning at Prestwick Airport over the US sending WMDs to Israel to kill Lebanon`s civilians, another 40 deaths this morning in the Lebanese town of Qana, after a direct hit by the Israeli air force.
The US is reported to be fully behind Israel in it`s destruction of Lebanon, it must make one proud to be a US citizen.

Subject: RE: BS: What is America Doing?
From: Folkiedave
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 04:11 AM

Well America apologising for sending the bombs through Prestwick at least stops JohninKansas (27/06) saying it didn't happen.

The destruction of a UN observer post is the destruction of a UN Observer post, killing large numbers of women and children is the same. Excuses mean nothing when you are dead.

How on earth do Israeli pilots live with their consciences?

"Only obeying orders" I suppose.

Subject: RE: BS: What is America Doing?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 29 Jul 06 - 01:35 PM

I think the "apology" was not telling the British Government in advance, and going along with the pretence that it has some say in the matter.

Subject: RE: BS: What is America Doing?
From: ard mhacha
Date: 29 Jul 06 - 09:55 AM

I see Bush has apoligised for sending the planes through Prestwick, Brendan Behan spoke wisely when he said." the terrorists are the ones with the small bombs".

Subject: RE: BS: What is America Doing?
From: Amergin
Date: 29 Jul 06 - 01:35 AM

Here I thought the uk was just good at making sweaters foir our lovely leaders....

Subject: RE: BS: What is America Doing?
From: Metchosin
Date: 29 Jul 06 - 01:26 AM

Agreed McGrath, and the precision bombing of the UN outpost has had one certain effect. The UN has now pulled its observers from southern Lebanon and with them goes the last semblance of impartial observation. Cui bono?

Subject: RE: BS: What is America Doing?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 28 Jul 06 - 06:48 PM

When you are trying to stop someone shooting at you it might makes quite a lot of sense to talk in those kind of terms, about how you are worried they might accidentally hit you.

I mean once you have openly accused them of trying to kill you you've rather closed the dialogue.You're trying to en courage them to back down without losing face, and you know they are never going to own up to deliberately tryin going to kill a bunch of unarmed observers from other countries.

Seeking to use the desperate attempots of that poor bloke to avoid being killed as cover for the killers is just sick. It's a bit like claiming that because someone facing rape says stuff like "I know you're a nice guy and this is all a misunderstaning", that's evidence that there was an element of consent.

When a hi-tech precision bomb then lands smack on top of a target and killing everyone there the assumption has to be that that was the intention of the person firing it. Otherwise what does "precision" mean? It is of course possible that the person targetting the bomb in this case was doing so off their own bat, or even that some kind of misunderstanding had been passed down the line. Maybe someone mean to say "United Nations" and it came out as "Hezbollah" by a slip of the topnguie.

But it's not possible to rule out the possibility that, for some undisclosed reason, a decision had been made higher up to destroy the UN post. It would not have been the first time the IDF has been suspected of this kind of thing. The fact that this is denied and that an investigation carried out by the Israeli authorities will undoubtedly determine that it was accidental, or conceivably that some low level individual was at fault, is neither here nor there. That's what these kind of inquiries are there to do.

Then point is, this is how organisations engaged in terrorist activities behave; and the IDF are clearly engeged in terrorist action in Lebanon at present in every way as much as Hezbollah is, though on a far bigger scale, since they have far more in the way of weaponry.

Terrorist activities? The systematic use of terror, the deliberate creation and exploitation of fear for bringing about political change."

I think that's a pretty good definition, and it comes from a pretty non-controversial source - the glossary in a book published in Georgia Preparing Nurses for Disaster Management.

Subject: RE: BS: What is America Doing?
From: Scoville
Date: 28 Jul 06 - 11:24 AM

See, the government policy here is to make sure that American citizens, above all others, don't know what America is doing . . .

Subject: RE: BS: What is America Doing?
From: Paul from Hull
Date: 28 Jul 06 - 08:35 AM

Well, if Guest is right (they SOMETIMES are, I've found) then I feel the need to be a LOT more worried than I was before now.

...& got the song line running through my head now, will try it in DT/Google etc later as I dont know title & stuff, just that Dick Gaughan does it..."if youre in my land with a gun in your hand, then youre no friend of mine"

Thats NOT how I'm claiming to feel (AT THE MOMENT anyway) but its just a line that sprang to mind...Maybe I need to revise my opinions a little, as this whole Israel thing goes on & on...

Subject: RE: BS: What is America Doing?
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Jul 06 - 10:08 PM

You are being conditioned. You'll see this type of thing today, then again tomorrow, then next week and month...and then the TERRORISTS will blow one up and your govt will say they need to clamp down on the free flow of information so the TERRORISTS won't know next time that the bombs are being transported through unsecured areas because the TERRORISTS want to take away your freedoms, so you need to sign on to a national RFID card because the TERRORISTS will git'cha if you don't take measures to...blah, blah. It's just the triad of CIA/MI-6/Mossad doing the usual fear-mongering.

Subject: RE: BS: What is America Doing?
From: number 6
Date: 27 Jul 06 - 09:55 PM

Major Paeta Hess-von Kruedener had been e-mailing CTV (a Canadian Broadcasting company) just prior to his tragic death.

CTV transcripts of e-mail communications

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: What is America Doing?
From: bobad
Date: 27 Jul 06 - 09:52 PM

Canadian Soldier Says UN Position Used As Cover By Hezbollah

July 26, 2006 11:40 p.m. EST

Ryan R. Jones - All Headline News Correspondent

Beirut, Lebanon (AHN) - A Canadian UN peacekeeper killed in an Israeli air strike Tuesday complained just days before that tragic incident that his position was being used as cover by Hezbollah terrorists attacking Israel.

In an interview on CBC Radio in Toronto, Major General Lewis MacKenzie (ret.) said he had been privy to e-mails received from the soldier over the past week.

MacKenzie, who happened to know the deceased personally, said in one such correspondence the soldier "described the fact that he was taking within...three meters of his position 'for tactical necessity - not being targeted.'"

The general explained that is veiled military speech "telling us [that] Hezbollah fighters were all over his position and the IDF were targeting them."

He said using UN personnel as human shields is "a favorite trick by people who don't have representation in the UN," knowing they will suffer no direct consequences for the violation.

Subject: RE: BS: What is America Doing?
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Jul 06 - 09:48 PM

UNITED NATIONS — An e-mail sent by a Canadian U.N. observer and obtained by FOX News casts doubt on claims by U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan that the Israeli attack on a U.N. peacekeeper observation post along the Lebanese border was intentional.

The email from Major Paeta Hess-von Kruedener warned that the post had come under "unintentional" artillery fire and aerial bombing several times in the previous weeks, and that several Hezbollah positions were in the area of the patrol base.

"It is not safe or prudent for us to conduct normal patrol activities," wrote Kruedener in the July 18th e-mail. "(The artillery and aerial bombing) has not been deliberate targeting, but has rather been due to tactical necessity."

Kruedener was one of four unarmed U.N. military observers killed in Tuesday's bombing.

"I think that e-mail is very important, because unfortunately these are practically the last words of somebody who eventually paid with his life," said Israel's U.N. ambassador Daniel Gillerman. "He's telling his commander that Israel was not targeting them and that there is Hezbollah activity around there."

This comes as the U.N. Security Council unanimously approved a statement on Thursday expressing shock and distress at Israel's bombing of the U.N. post, but fell short of condemnation

Subject: RE: BS: What is America Doing?
From: Peace
Date: 27 Jul 06 - 09:47 PM

"and unarmed UN personnel targetted and killed."

It was made clear by the Canadian who was killed--in e-mails prior to the strike--that Israel was NOT targeting the UN position. However, he also made clear that Hezbollah HAD been firing rockets from there. FYI.

Subject: RE: BS: What is America Doing?
From: podman
Date: 27 Jul 06 - 09:43 PM

I don't know what all the fuss is about. I'm sure the Americans said "please".

Subject: RE: BS: What is America Doing?
From: number 6
Date: 27 Jul 06 - 09:31 PM

Hey isn't Britain involved in the occupation of Iraq ???

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: What is America Doing?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 27 Jul 06 - 09:30 PM

The concern isn't just about dangerous stuff being sent through civilian airports. It's about a foreign government sending war materials through British airpace and British airports, without any kind of consultation, to a country engaged in a deadly war game in which close on a million people have been driven from their homes, large numbers of civilians have been slaughtered, a nation devastated, and unarmed UN personnel targetted and killed.

If the war materials had been destined for Lebanon at this time, for use in this war, I am sure that similar objections would be raised.

Subject: RE: BS: What is America Doing?
From: Paul from Hull
Date: 27 Jul 06 - 08:49 PM

The pic is either incorrect or misleading too. If they are on a Transport plane as it says, & which would be the case as they were being supplied to someone else's Military (if it indeed happen that they were)they would be crated up & in the hold. THAT pic shows them hanging off the wings of a combat aircraft.

Also, I would imagine that with modern explosive fillers, that unless they are primed (& the last stages of priming take place in the last few seconds before dropping) even an air crash would not detanate the bombs to their full potential, nor would the explosion & fire ensuing from the fuel aboard. THAT would cause more damage than the bombs.

Having said that, I still disagree with staging them through anything other than a Military airfield. Civil airports , by their very nature, are far more vulnerable to terrorist attack, should a highly motivated individual attempt to interfere with the transport of ordnance.

Potentially worse & more sinister to my mind though is that, as Folkie Dave responded to: Why use a civil airport? - Probably because they can........... Bloody AIRSTRIP ONE, thats all we seem to be to the US Military sometimes.

special bloody relationhip indeed...

Subject: RE: BS: What is America Doing?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 27 Jul 06 - 07:21 PM

tells how bombs that the America is supplying to Israel passed through Scotland.

Actually, it doesn't.

Neither the page linked, nor so far as I can tell any pages directly linked from it, cites any specific event to which someone objects. "Someone" said "they" are doing "that" and "those others" are extremely upset and "nobody" is doing anything about "it." "Somebody" claims that "another they" may not be following "procedures."

This is a news report?

I can sympathize that "someone" is concerned about "something;" but a decent cub reporter would cite a treaty, contract, or regulation, tell what provisions of the agreement(s) are improper and should be changed, and/or what was done in violation of agreements, and identify who has authority to make a change that would be satisfactory - at a minimum.

There quite possibly is a cause for concern, but this looks more like campaign posturing than about news. Is there a real news story somewhere that will tell me what's going on?

John

Subject: RE: BS: What is America Doing?
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Jul 06 - 07:13 PM

Don't worry McGrath Iran is working on that problem for you, just be patient.

Subject: RE: BS: What is America Doing?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 27 Jul 06 - 07:11 PM

Just as well to remember that, when it comes to sending weaponry into that part of the world to be used to blow up civilian targets, Iran and Syria are just bit players compared to the USA.

Subject: RE: BS: What is America Doing?
From: Folkiedave
Date: 27 Jul 06 - 06:46 PM

It is easy to believe propaganda.

No doubt the UN observer post which Israel now regrets bombing was used by Hezbollah as a shield too. And the phone calls they kept making and which were ignored were really to protect Hezbollah militants or soldiers.

Undoubtedly the doctors of the Lebanon encourage the Hezbollah to store missiles near hospitals - that way they can ensure the hospitals are targets for Israeli bombs.

And of course they blew up their own bridges to ensure that civilians could not escape.

Subject: RE: BS: What is America Doing?
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Jul 06 - 06:11 PM

I am sure the islamic militants don't worry so much about storing fused and fueled missiles under civilian houses, why worry about professionals transporting inert munitions?

Subject: RE: BS: What is America Doing?
From: Sorcha
Date: 27 Jul 06 - 06:04 PM

Because we are arseholes?????? Because we lie in our collective teeth???

Subject: RE: BS: What is America Doing?
From: Folkiedave
Date: 27 Jul 06 - 05:57 PM

What puzzles me is why they didn't fly into Mildenhall or some other such base that the USAF has in the UK. Why use a civil airport?


Probably because they can...........

Subject: RE: BS: What is America Doing?
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Jul 06 - 05:47 PM

I live in a town that has a rail line passing through it. I am also an 'emergency first responder'. We have 150-car freight trains every few hours. I try not to think of what's on those trains. It makes sleep difficult. Freight train wrecks are what we call ABC calls, because the stuff on the trains is often extremely dangerous. Some will burn and have to be allowed to burn because tha application of water would cause a violent explosion. Some goes from a liquid to gaseous state and 'creeps' along the ground seeking low areas. It displaces the O2 and suffocates anything that depends on O2 for survival.Other chemicals are safe--as long as they don't mix with other chemicals. Then things happen really fast and the result can be seen from miles away, even if the sound doesn't quite carry that far.

I would prefer to have a train load of 'bunker busters' than the daily and nightly trains we do have. I'd sleep better.

Oh, yes. ABC: Armchair, Binoculars, Case of beer.

Subject: RE: BS: What is America Doing?
From: skipy
Date: 27 Jul 06 - 05:24 PM

These things are safe to transport until their last flight.
Skipy.

Subject: RE: BS: What is America Doing?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 27 Jul 06 - 05:21 PM

What puzzles me is why they didn't fly into Mildenhall or some other such base that the USAF has in the UK. Why use a civil airport?
Giok

Subject: BS: What is America Doing?
From: Folkiedave
Date: 27 Jul 06 - 05:18 PM

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/glasgow_and_west/5219830.stm

tells how bombs that the America is supplying to Israel passed through Scotland.

Apparently if I carried a bomb on a plane destined for Israel I would be arrested. But if someone loads a couple of 5,000lbs blockbusters this is OK.

The logic escapes me..........